LS1 in S14

[midnightclubbaa]

ok this is not a old chevy small block 350 this is a 2002 chevy LS1 newish car newer motorreason for my friend doing this is cause noone in or area has done itand the LS1 will probably make more power for the money than the motor that comes with the car and it will probably have less problems

the thing made 348 whp stock

[2_Liter_Turbo]

Less problems??? It's built by Chevy. That's all I have to say. I agree with the lack of ingenuity with people who just drop small blocks in everything they can get their hands on. Even in the import crowd, it's the same way. Example: A rotary (I love Rotaries, but keep it in the Mazda line) in a Datsun 510. What are people thinking???

"More power for the money".

How much did the engine swap cost you??? (LS1, transmission, Fabwork etc)

[midnightclubbaa]

$4000 motor and transmission

[2_Liter_Turbo]

$4000. Holy crap. If I had 4k, I would have a KA turbo that would decimate a stock LS1 powered 240. Kudos for making it work (if it is), but in my opinion it is not worth it.

[lancefloyd]

Less problems??? It's built by Chevy.)

Thats like saying you are going to become a doctor or a quickie mart owner because you are Indian, or you will listen to rap music and scare old people because you are black. Chevrolet is not exactly full of perfect records of cars, but no company is. And I'm not defending the bowtie either, but I gotta ask you if you could do better then they are doing now. Vette's suck huh?

[That's all I have to say. I agree with the lack of ingenuity with people who just drop small blocks in everything they can get their hands on.

Again, HUH?! I'd say it takes tons of skill and experience to swap ANY engine into anything that didn't come with it. Let me preface that with the word "properly" however. I saw the beauty that is Aries' swap in those pics, and it looks really good. I also was BLOWN away by an LS1 RX-7 FD I saw on the net. In the past, I've seen an LT1 Nissan Pathfinder...sucker won every award the offroad magazine could offer because it was sooo slick and clean, and yet hauled *** like it should.

Even in the import crowd, it's the same way. Example: A rotary (I love Rotaries, but keep it in the Mazda line) in a Datsun 510. What are people thinking???

UMMMM....kay.... I'm pretty sure they were thinking power-weight ratio, location of engine according to weight balance and transfer, actual weight of rotary itself, the simplicity at which they run, the shear durability of a stock rotary, the lack of tons of recriprocating (sp?!) parts, how far back they could shove it in the engine bay and still get to everything perfectly, ...oh and probably how miraculous it works. I had an 86 RX-7 with 296,XXX miles on it when I sold it to a friend, who added another 100,000 miles on it before it STARTED smoking a bit...likely because the oil adders failed finally. During my stint with that car, I pondered how cool it would be to have a rotary go-kart, aircraft, jetski, little baby rotary R/C car, etc. I even line drafted a HUGE rotor on my hatch, in case someone asked me if it had a 4 cylinder in there.

Sorry, but I don't think there is anything wrong or upsetting at all about these swaps. I think a properly installed LS1 V8 would be the shiznits in my new s-14...consider fuel costs and a v8 like that in such a light car will get EXCELLENT mileage, assuming good gearing of course. What is and is not "right" for a car should be left to the imagination. How else in the world would we be with beautiful aluminum alloy wheels, nice colors, excellent suspension parts, etc.? If all we did was keep 'er stock, then it would be no fun. Of course the ricers will do their ricey things and so will the ballas and the g's, but I accept these stupidities in reverence to the fact that we are at least trying to individualize our cars. Some people just are WEIRD individuals and it carries to their car a little too transparently.

No flame, just a different perspective.

BTW if someone wants to experiement with a different engine swap and they are GOOD at these things, you can have my car for a week or so as a guinnea pig so long as I get it done for free hey you guys seen this flock of flying pigs around here?

[Ubernoober]

I was going to comment, but I think LanceFloyd said everything that needs to be said.I think we are all tired of hearing the "duh, that engine don't belong in there" comments. A little more constructive commenting would go a long way to make this board feel more like a family again.

[dfw240_EE]

I suspect that a V8 in a 240SX would get fairly poor mileage, probably around 17-18. Perhaps when Midnightclubbaa gets done with his he will clue us in. I don't know enough about thermodynamics to make a good judgement.

Oh, edit.

Lancefloyd, I remember seeing in a magazine that someone actually made a postage-stamp sized rotary engine that ran on cigarette lighter fluid. The idea is that it could run a tiny generator and be a laptop battery.

Also I looked on Edmunds.com. The closest stock car I could think of to a V8 240SX would be a 1991 Mustang 5.0 Coupe. 5.0V8 in a ~2700lb car, 225HP gets 17mpg city/24mpg highway. The 5.7L V8 according to Edmunds.com in a 2002 Chevrolet Camaro at ~3400 lbs gets 18/25. So I am going to say that it would probably get around 20mpg in the city. About what my 2.4L 4cyl is getting right now in the city, but I am in gross need of a tune up. Just one more week and I am done with school.

[gobstopper]

$4000 motor and transmission

$4000 into the project, and the engine's not in the car yet. How much could you have done to the KA24DE that was in there with $4000?

Your buddy would probably be making over 300 hp at the wheels, and with the $8000-$10000 he's yet to spend he could have a built KA with a killer suspension, brick wall brakes, and 500 ponies. And a decent-to-absurd stereo, if you want.

Big V8 != better.

[VitaminT]

this is a reminder to me of an FD RX7 that is fitted with an LS1. It was a fantastic success. I don't recall where I found the info at, but I recall sub 12 second 1/4's on the stock LS1, all the while retaining almost perfect weight dist.

It was probably Brian Hinson's FD. He sells/installs LS1 install kits for RX7s. Here is a current pic of his car after his recent modifications.

http://www.boostjunky.org/p1010015.jpg

[midnightclubbaa]

I suspect that a V8 in a 240SX would get fairly poor mileage, probably around 17-18. Perhaps when Midnightclubbaa gets done with his he will clue us in. I don't know enough about thermodynamics to make a good judgement.

.

It's not my car it is a friend of mines

[Chingon]

people are so silly:

"TOTAL, COMPLETE, FULLY DRESSED, FULLY OILED, crate ls1 from GM is 458#s

This is with manifolds, and a clutch.

Clutch tips the scales @ 49#s , and the cast iron manifolds are 13 each. Subtract this from the motor, and you get 383#s, with oil, intake, coilpacks, Water pump, pan, filter, TB, you name it, Sans manifolds and clutch. Not bad!"

Fully dressed with both crossmembers and the steering rack attached (but no A/C), the KA24DE weighs about 540 pounds. With two more cylinders, a much beefier transmission and a turbocharger, the RB25DET weighs about 720 pounds.

I'm guessing these 2 lasts weights is w/transmission. So add 125-150 #'s to the ls1 for a t56, and you've got 583 or so.

please remember, it's an aluminum v8, w only 1 cam. None of these dohc 32 valve v8's. Just go for it, ppl are full of hate now adays.

As for the swap, i think aries was selling the mounts. Wiring is stupid easy compared to say an rb25... and well, custom driveshaft, I've seen ppl weld their own for less than 50 bux..

about gas mileage, i've seen rx7's get around 36 mpg after swap, and i think ls1 'vettes get something like 30 no?

just tell your friend this could be him:

[spanishricer]

ok this is not a old chevy small block 350 this is a 2002 chevy LS1 newish car newer motorreason for my friend doing this is cause noone in or area has done itand the LS1 will probably make more power for the money than the motor that comes with the car and it will probably have less problems

the thing made 348 whp stock

If this is a bone stock LS1 from a late model F-body, then I doubt it puts out 348whp stock. The most I've ever seen from a stock LS1 equipped car is 304whp from a Firebird Formula running the stock aluminum 16 inchers. Is the motor your friend getting modified at all?

[midnightclubbaa]

Nope no mods it's a factory freak motor

[Rex]

I've been doing alot of looking/reading lately, and there's a big seperation of those for and against these type of swaps.

There are V8's in all kinds of Nissan/Datsuns - S13, S14, S30, S130, Z31, Z32, 510 and probably even a Z33. Also, in all the different types of RX7's, there's a vid of a blue one with white stripes (think Viper) going through the auto-x cones. I also found an 85 Supra with an Olds V8.

It harkens back to the day when hotrodders put anything in anything. It even became unusual to find a 50's era Ford F-100 pick up with a Ford motor in it.

I say offer help, pose real questions or provide information ... don't just criticize .

[lancefloyd]

Sooo...

while doing some back-of-the-envelope math on this great subject.. Holy shiznits...double the cylinders, double the displacement...uh 2.38 times the displacement i mean...same or better gas mileage, NO lag, instant torque, good availability of parts and upgrades, excellent supply of motors, EXCELLENT transmission...no excuses these 6 speeds in these cars are a good reason to do this alone, ..and I think just like a Visa commercial would go, you can legitimately have this conversation at stoplights,"Holy .... man! That car is fast as hell! You got an SR in it or something!""Naw man....I've got the same motor you got....but it works better in here now doesn't it?"

A stock 240sx (like my 95) weighs about 2850lbs. Assuming the swap is done with minimal increase in weight from custom mounts ect., you have to account for only about 48 lbs more weight. I got to thinking that the LS1 might actually IMPROVE the weight balance just a bit, because the only really heavy part of this engine is the transmission...guess where it goes? in the middle of course. This means, much like a Mid engined car, that the center of gravity should be almost in the lap of the driver.

For us poor americans with bad fuel in the midwest, and of course you CA people too...the LS1 might be the ultimate engine swap, seeing as it doesn't require top grade 91+ fuel to run without blowing up. Sure, it would prefer to run on it, but you could make do with 89 or so.

Realizing this, if you were to run a KA-T at, say, 400WHP, this would most certainly require 91-93 minimum, and you would feel safer with some extra points in there on hot days no doubt. With this little V8 idea, a CAI, headers, good exhaust (side pipes anyone?), a cam made for top end power, and some good tuning should make that same power with an advantage in mpg, octane requirements, and cost. The only real disadvantage is not hearing the beautiful sounds a turbo car makes, but I think I could get over that.

So, as a cliff notes summary... maybe an SR swap (or perhaps the vernable CA) is certainly less expensive, a KA-T is a powerhouse working off of a proven factory motor, and a V8 swap should be considered by those who are initially committed to an RB25 or 26. It would stand to make the most sense to these people because the costs would be almost equal, the performance equal to better (stock of course), and the potential better (to a point of about 550-600whp) all the while actually weighing less then an RB. Interesting fodder!

[nothingFancy]

dont want to burst your bubble but the ls1 made 315 hp in a z28 and 325 in a ss camaro. truck ls1's had about same as the z28,maybe a little less, trucks have more tourqe then cars for towing. as for reailability, motors are great. never had a problem, i owned 4 and they never gave up on me. anyways good luck on the swap

[Chingon]

I was thinking the same thing, although he did say it's a factory freak. Who knows, maybe they slipped some c5 components in it ('vettes ls1 do make 345). I wouldn't worry about it too much though, a set of headers, good exhaust and maybe a cam, and you are way past that point.

[midnightclubbaa]

well spoken

[mrflip69]

Hey Chingon, what chassis is running that LS1? I'd like more info on that CLEAN *** swap! Looks like so much room to play with.

Edit: Just followed the link... RX-7 huh? Answered my own question :p

[own3d]

Less problems??? It's built by Chevy. That's all I have to say. I agree with the lack of ingenuity with people who just drop small blocks in everything they can get their hands on. Even in the import crowd, it's the same way. Example: A rotary (I love Rotaries, but keep it in the Mazda line) in a Datsun 510. What are people thinking???

"More power for the money".

How much did the engine swap cost you??? (LS1, transmission, Fabwork etc)

i laugh at you. we have 4(four) 98-99 silverado's with over 300,000 miles on the clock at the dealership i work at(parts delivery trucks). nothing but regular maintenance. they all run perfectly.

[Onizuka]

My SR weighed under 500 lbs with the ac compressor, all the iron brackets, transmission, stock flywheel, cast iron manifold, cast iron O2 housing, oil, wire harness, ecu AND the pallet it was sitting on.

The chevy V8 swap will be effective, there is just nothing new or exciting about it to alot of people. Chevy has perfected the one cam V8 in my opinion, its a great motor. I have heard of piston slap issues but then again, there arnt very many engines that make it to market without problems. If you ever finish it, please post pictures

Personally, If im going to stick a V8 in a 240, its going to be a 4 cam, 4.5 liter, variable valve timing, all aluminum VH45DE.

Here is a 300hp NA SR20DE for whoever asked:

[Chingon]

too bad the vh45 unlike the ls1 is a pig in weight.

As far as piston slap, i haven't read anything conclusive saying it's a damaging thing..

[Onizuka]

Yeah, too bad indeed. Why did nissan have to make a engine with some of the tightest clearence and assembly tolorences in the market with 4 cams instead of one? All that wasted weight....

Its just a shame the corvette couldnt equal the Q45's power output until 97, were it eeked out just 10 more horsepower with the advantage of 1.2 liters of displacement.

[Chingon]

pig in weight, nothing else.. I love the engine. Been looking into the 1uzfe myself. Nice redline, bullet proof, dohc, nice aftermarket Aussie support (specially in the transmission adapter department), and then there's this:

[nothingFancy]

the ls1 i belive has 10:4-5:1 compressioni know my lt1 has 10:8-9:1 i dont remember . when my buddy had this motor he had to use nothing but 93 octane gas or it would ping. you might be able to get away with 91 octane out west

[pr240sx]

One sweet swap would be a turbo V6 from a BuickSmall, light and powerfull.

[thekage]

swap the ls1... then a super charger for more instant power. .

think of the posibilitys..

[Dookie]

swap the ls1... then a super charger for more instant power. .

think of the posibilitys..

think of the possibilities of mispelling!

[Chingon]

oh...and here I thought he was talking about a new disease... :P

[spanishricer]

dont want to burst your bubble but the ls1 made 315 hp in a z28 and 325 in a ss camaro. truck ls1's had about same as the z28,maybe a little less, trucks have more tourqe then cars for towing. as for reailability, motors are great. never had a problem, i owned 4 and they never gave up on me. anyways good luck on the swap

We were referring to "whp" or horsepower measured at the wheels. The numbers you quoted are manufacturer rated horsepower numbers, not the same thing.

A car rated at 305hp from the factory, should roughly put down around 265-ish whp. But many LS1's put down around 280-290whp stock. The highest I've seen a stock LS1 dyno was the Firebird Formula I mentioned earlier that put down 304whp.

An LS1 without C5 internals that's putting down over 340whp completely stock isn't a factory freak motor....it's a factory Act of God motor