Learned'd VIII: Less Bewbs, Same Nonsense

[WDRacing]

I'd take the Mark VIII. One of my all time favorite cars.

[Kompresshun]

I've always loved Mark VIII's, but honestly they're not that desirable right now so i'd rather wait and find one like I really want. You can pick models up like his all day long for $1,500-3,000 depending on the condition. His is one of the color combinations I like(Pearl White over Camel interior), but not the model or year.

If I were going to buy a Mark VIII it would be a 97-98 LSC, which is the 295hp model and it would have to be either black on black, or red over black. Nothing else.

The T-Bird looks just like this one, except a darker grey color:



I'd like for it to look something like this:



Or This:

[Bubba1]

I think the term "collectible" gets used a bit too casually as does the term "sports car". While Rays list contains many good cars worth owning, I think only a few of them will become truly collectible and be worth restoring without taking a bath. The problem with most of them is that way too many were built and.

the only post 70's T-birds I see becoming collectible at all and I think they're still years away are the '84-'88 Turbo's. I'm not saying avoid buying them, I'd avoid putting any serious money into one because you won't get it back when you sell it

For Fox body or newer mustangs Rousch & Saleen tuned examples, of course. SVO? perhaps, McLaren mustang, probably. LAguna Sega, oh yes. But certainly not an ordinary GT. Sorry.

Others that will likely be collectible: FD RX7 (particularly the twin turbo), Z32 twin turbo, and the NSX (especially the early ones, before Acura gouged on the MSRP).

For the MR-2. I think the only one that will become collectible at all is the 2nd generation turbo but that's it.

For F-bodies. you're taking about the biggest selling vehicle in the country. popular? sure. Collectible? Uh, no.

Viper - perhaps eventually, but not for several years, and probably only the special edition ones, like the ACR.

C4? No. Affordable? yes. Fun? oh yes. Will they appreciate significantly any time soon? Uh, no.

[frapjap]

I'm thinking that the cars I previously listed are the cars that you'll see insured with Hagerty and dotting the parking lots during cruise nights in the next decade. I'll agree with you, not all of them will be incredibly valuable (or collectible), but I think they'll be worth more in the upcoming years than they are now. Civic's, Integras, F bodies, Corvettes are all mass produced, high production cars. However, if history repeats itself like it has in the legacy of the Mustang as a desirable classic, I could see the same being applied to those cars. A 60's run of the mill Mustang GT isn't worth a whole lot, and isn't particularly valuable, but they certainly have a value higher than anyone expected them to carry when they were a dime a dozen on the road back then. Its my thought that the same principle will apply to the other cars in my list. You won't get wealthy off them, but I do think they'll grow in value and will become desirable because finding a clean, surviving example is getting much harder than it was as little as 5 years ago.
Those born in the last years of Generation X and early years of Generation Y will become nostalgic and want some of the models they didn't own in their teenage and college years because they were prohibitively expensive.

[Kompresshun]

I agree as well Joel. A lot of the cars on the list are not ever going to be truly desirable. That doesn't mean I don't want some of them sitting in my garage, but I think a lot of them will never bring huge money or be particularly desirable. People will still want them, but most people aren't going to want a 85 Buick Regal anywhere near as much as a documented Buick GNX or Regal T-Type. Same goes for most models of that era - it will depend on the rarity of the car.

I think even the less desirable cars will increase in value, but not quite so drastically. I personally don't buy anything for it's rarity though - I buy it because I like it. I mean you've even mentioned it before Joel - Miata's are not a rare vehicle and they're not hard to find parts for. Their value is fairly low and they probably won't become collector cars anytime soon, but I still love mine like it is something special. I could easily find another one just like it, but it has meaning behind it and it's thankfully in good enough shape to make it worth shining up again.

Another example is I watched Fast N' Loud(Gas Monkey Garage) last night. This episode was centered around two Mustangs - A 72 Mustang Fastback 302 4spd car in baby poop green with matching interior and a 70 Boss 429 Mustang which was black on black and was a survivor car, with no restoration needed. They put $7,500 down on the 72 Mustang to buy it and invested about $5,000 in it to make it look nice then they paid $120,000 for the Boss 429 and just invested some labor in it. They took the Boss 429 to Barrett-Jackson expecting $200K +(Which it should have easily brought) and it only sold for $155k which shocked me.

Total investment in the 72 was around $13,500 and it sat for a couple of weeks, so they tossed it on eBay. It sold for $52,000! A run of the mill 72 Mustang in an ugly color, with some nice wheels, reupholstered seats, a Mach 1 hood, stripe kit, and front spoiler. So I guess my point here is, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Sometimes certain cars strike a nerve with people and bring back fond memories. Some people can't put a price on that. I've done it with a couple of cars myself.

I personally have my limits now though, but I am perfectly willing to invest $5,000 or more into my Miata and I fully realize i'll never make that back. No one is going to buy a 1990 Miata with 166k miles for $7,000. It's special though because it's the first project i've bought since we've been married. Sure, there were other cars that could have filled the same role, but when I sat in it the first time I knew it was right. I made me smile to just sit behind the wheel of it, like I was a kid again. I think my wife knew when she saw me behind the wheel that it was right too, or she jut was sick and tired of hearing me talk about it

[Bubba1]

As a baby boomer, I'm wondering if the current obsession with old 60's mustangs/mopar/corvettes is peaking and about to weaken because our population is shrinking and the generations of car people behind us, that are becoming more affluent, grew up more with imports.

[frapjap]

As a baby boomer, I'm wondering if the current obsession with old 60's mustangs/mopar/corvettes is peaking and about to weaken because our population is shrinking and the generations of car people behind us, that are becoming more affluent, grew up more with imports.

Thats what I'm trying to say! While a lot of us will still like the old iron, there will be plenty who want the imports they never had. Personally, I'd take a Barracuda over any 300zx or 80/90's future classic, but not everyone feels that way. The millennial population from the late 80's, and 90's will be looking for very different cars than the original classic.

My case in point experience- I was at a gas station filling up the T/A and this kid, maybe 19-21 years old, crooked hat, stupid s***, pants sagging was just staring at my car. I let it go and after I was finishing up, he finally says, "Hey man, thats a sweet car! What year is that? 2003, 2004?"
No. f***. Joke. Kid thought the car was newer.
Point is, he recognized it as "cool" and iconic.
When I got through my neighborhood in the summer and the younger kids are all outside, they stop their basketball games and whatever else is going on in the yard and stare and/or yell.
Its very weird, being that the car that was common place to me 10 years ago is a matter of attention these days. While it isn't incredibly valuable, the 80's muscle and 90's imports are what the next generation is going to remember. They're the classics of tomorrow.

[WDRacing]

Who gives a crap about whether or not they're gonna worth more money? If you want something, that's about all that matters.

[Kompresshun]

As a baby boomer, I'm wondering if the current obsession with old 60's mustangs/mopar/corvettes is peaking and about to weaken because our population is shrinking and the generations of car people behind us, that are becoming more affluent, grew up more with imports.

I think those cars will always be iconic and special, but I do wonder if the less popular models will decrease in value. You're already seeing it a lot in the 65-73 Mustangs that aren't a performance model like a Shelby, Mach 1, or a Boss. You can get 64 1/2-66 Mustangs surprisingly cheap lately, where 10 years ago they were through the roof. 67-69 Camaro's and Firebirds still go for a lot money though, so I think it just depends on what it actually is.

I don't ever foresee 'Cuda's and Challengers(the original one of course) going down in price either. I also think Corvette's will always be special and hold their value, because they're popular not only for nostalgia but it's just an American Icon in general. I think all of them could quit increasing in value, but I don't think we'll see a rapid decline in most models. I sure wouldn't mind it though if it did happen

Who gives a crap about whether or not they're gonna worth more money? If you want something, that's about all that matters.

^My thoughts exactly. A car is typically a poor investment anyways, so you know going in that you're likely to lose money on it in most cases.

[Bubba1]

Who gives a crap about whether or not they're gonna worth more money? If you want something, that's about all that matters.

Well...you did, my friend. And I totally agree with you here ^. But below is what you said that sparked me.

"I think a lot of the 80's stuff will start bringing more money in the next few years too. I'd like to snatch up an older F-Body before they start jumping up in price too."

I just don't see many US marque vehicles from the mid 70's thru the 80's suddenly becoming collectible over the next few years. And when you consider that Ford built more F-bodies than pretty much any other vehicle in the US throughout that period, the odds of them growing significantly in value any time soon are slim. I'm not saying the F body sucks or that there are zero collectible cars from the big 3 during that bleak era. I meant that one might want another reason for buying a vehicle like an 80's F body or Thunderbird besides as an investment.


FWIW I bought an 80's GMC because I wanted it and it was dirt cheap. Its possible resale value a few years from now never entered my mind.

[WDRacing]

I think a lot of the 80's stuff will start bringing more money in the next few years too. I'd like to snatch up an older F-Body before they start jumping up in price too.

Who gives a crap about whether or not they're gonna worth more money? If you want something, that's about all that matters.

Well...you did, my friend. And I totally agree with you here ^. But below is what you said that sparked me.

"I think a lot of the 80's stuff will start bringing more money in the next few years too. I'd like to snatch up an older F-Body before they start jumping up in price too."

Psssssst, that wasn't me that said that old man

[Bubba1]

Whooops!!! Sorry about that. My error.
You 'da man.

[Kompresshun]

Also, my point with that statement was not to buy one because they were going to be worth big money. I just would like to buy one while they're still really cheap, because I wouldn't spend more than maybe $3,000-4,000 on one. I don't think they're worth more than that at all.

I don't think they will ever be worth a lot of money. Maybe the Iroc-Z and the Trans Am GTA will increase in value, but even those will probably never bring high numbers because they weren't THAT special.

[Rogue One]

Who gives a crap about whether or not they're gonna worth more money? If you want something, that's about all that matters.

Well said! Despite it's shortcomings, I've always wanted a DeLorean. I remember the 80's cars, having owned a few, and they just weren't all that great. You buy what you like, simply for that reason, not because someone said "this is what you should get".

[MinisterofDOOM]

I dunno...

I think it's more complicated than "This is the cars people will grow up remembering." I think there's more to it than era, too.

It's down to ebb and flow of the industry.

Most of the "classics" people reference today were "classics" when I was a kid in the '80s, too.

The real creator of classics is this: the industry goes through dark ages and brighter ages. Happens to a lot of industries, too. And the biggest driving force behind the brighter ages is: COMPETITION.

If you look at the history of the automobile, every era that corresponds with a serious icon (Model T, Thunderbird/Corvette, the big musclecar, the pony car, the sporty compact, et cetera, et cetera) was an era of SERIOUS revolutionary competition.

The Corvette spawned a whole genre.

The Model T helped popularize.

The musclecar took utilitarian cars and scaled them across a huge range of performance.

The pony car made sports cars affordable in America (where little roadsters never took off outside of rare exceptions).

Sporty compacts (like factory-built Dart, Nova, and Falcon performance models) took entrants in a weird, fledgeling market and helped expose them as more than just "the car you buy when you can't afford a Chevelle or Fairlane."

The 80s icons we remember were part of that too. And part of what makes them iconic was that they are very much the embodiment of a triumphant climb back out of one of those dark ages.
F-bodies, A/G-bodies, T-birds, Conquest/Starion, even the De'Lorean are exactly what we needed in the '80s. Small, lightweight performance cars that were affordable. They fit the new "rules" of the industry (fuel economy, safety, etc.) but it was those limitations that drove the very war of innovation that led to their creation.

It's not that we grew up remembering those cars. It's that they are cars that matter. Cars that matter don't stop mattering. Classics don't stop being classic.

An Imapala SS will always be sexy.
A De'Lorean will always be that weird blend of attainable exoticness.
A Grand National will always exemplify "the new musclecar."
Vipers will always be special.
Shoebox Chevys and Fords will never lose their appeal.
The Model A will always represent a very special era of the automobile.
Cords and Duesenbergs will never lose their eccentric appeal.

These cars are icons because of what they are, not when they were made.

It's not hard to identify a future classic. It's also not hard to identify a future bomb. And it's pretty easy to find those cars that will attract small, hardcore followings.

Nobody's ever going to herald a Hyundai Elantra as a classic. It's just not going to happen. Doesn't matter when it was made. It's not worth remembering. Only a few cars are.

[Kompresshun]

^Deep thoughts from MoD as usual. I agree on all counts.

Mornin' everybody. I finally finished the top on the Miata this weekend. Man was it a pain to get it closed the first time and sadly we have sunny weather ahead for the next 3-4 days, but guess what? I can't let the top down for two weeks...

Well at least it looks much better.

[WDRacing]

Got a before image?

[Kompresshun]

Well I thought I did. I think they're backed up at home from my old phone though. Here's the only one I have right now:



The old one was worn out. I patched it up quite a bit though and even went as far as cutting out and replacing the rear window in it with lexan. It lasted until a little over a week ago, so I can't complain.

[Kompresshun]

Off the subject, but i'm still on the fence about this for some reason.

The wife told me about a '00 Nissan Frontier Ext Cab 4x4 4cyl 5spd last night that her friend was selling. They want $3,500 for it and it has 140k miles on it. Looks like a fairly decent truck. My first instinct was to jump on it but after we talked about it I told the wife to tell her we'd pass.

One reason being my kid is 4 years old and shouldn't be riding in the front seat or in the jumper seats in the cab. Next reason is I probably should sell the Five Hundred if I got it because we really don't need to spend $3,500 for a fourth car we don't need. Then finally, if I sold the Five Hundred(which i'd rather not) we would not have a backup vehicle that Kristen can drive or something that my kid could ride in.

I know it's the sensible thing to do, but for some reason i'm still hung up on the truck. Any thoughts?

[RicerX]

Off the subject, but i'm still on the fence about this for some reason.

The wife told me about a '00 Nissan Frontier Ext Cab 4x4 4cyl 5spd last night that her friend was selling. They want $3,500 for it and it has 140k miles on it. Looks like a fairly decent truck. My first instinct was to jump on it but after we talked about it I told the wife to tell her we'd pass.

One reason being my kid is 4 years old and shouldn't be riding in the front seat or in the jumper seats in the cab. Next reason is I probably should sell the Five Hundred if I got it because we really don't need to spend $3,500 for a fourth car we don't need. Then finally, if I sold the Five Hundred(which i'd rather not) we would not have a backup vehicle that Kristen can drive or something that my kid could ride in.

I know it's the sensible thing to do, but for some reason i'm still hung up on the truck. Any thoughts?

If it was a crew cab, I'd consider it. With how good crew cab trucks have gotten, I almost have little use for a non-crew cab unless it was specifically a "farm truck" or something of infrequent use.

If you really want something like that, I'd say wait for something else to come up. Deals always come around. Those trucks are neat though. I think I'll eventually end up in a Frontier for my official daily when I retire my Z's daily status.

[Kompresshun]

I know that's the right thing to do anyways. I just don't run across a 4x4 manual that cheap very often. I'd much rather wait until its time to replace my car and buy something much nicer. I'm still pretty set on an Xterra.

[sx moneypit]

Mornin' folks!

[Rogue One]

[WDRacing]

Morning Ben!

[WDRacing]

Good morning peeps!

[float_6969]

Morning!

[Kompresshun]

Mornin' guys. I needz moar sleep.

[sx moneypit]

Mornin' folks!
I need more sleep too,i get sick of hearing my alarm clock going off.

[frapjap]

Morning guys, popping in before disappearing again to a far away land. Can't wait to be where its sunny, 90, and wet.


Silly question- any of you here ever been sexually harassed in a work environment by a female before?

[Bubba1]

Morning guys, popping in before disappearing again to a far away land. Can't wait to be where its sunny, 90, and wet.


Silly question- any of you here ever been sexually harassed in a work environment by a female before?

Does my wife count? Otherwise, no.