Inventing Argument: Child Support

[dre1507]

LOL. So if your girl leaves you for a woman and takes the kids with her, just call it a loss, cause you can probably forget about even getting visitation rights. The system will say your kids' new butch-daddy can play both a motherly and fatherly role. So your kids are now better off because they have 2 moms and a psedo-father. Your only role is to then become the "child-support delivery guy" who doesn't even get an open door, but instead has to slide the money under the front door.

[audtatious]

You got it down good

[dre1507]

Question: If you're married, can your wife still stick you for child support?

The reason i ask is: I have a co-worker who says his brother is married and his wife has him paying child support separate from taking care of her and the kids. He also pays for ALL the bills. This is all while she sits at home doing nothing.

Can something like this really happen?

[audtatious]

He's married to the same wife he's paying child support to? I call BS

[dre1507]

I guess.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

They are probably separated or estranges with divorce proceedings under way, either that or he had a child with someone else and is paying child support for that child.

[Rex]

first of all child support is based on the main wage earner.

In the state of Ohio it's based on the combined incomes of both parties, not just one persons ... unless only one of them earns an income.

[audtatious]

In the state of Ohio it's based on the combined incomes of both parties, not just one persons ... unless only one of them earns an income.

Same with Indiana. They take both persons annual income and uses that to determine the monthly "cost" for child support. Then they split that cost based upon percentage of income.

[OriginalWheelman]

My problem with child support, and i'm not talking about divorced couples.

1. Man and woman make a decision that may result in a kid.

Roll the dice.

If kid -

Woman alone gets to make a decision to / not to put the man into economic slavery for 18 years.

That is not fair to me.

[audtatious]

Takes 2 to tango.....

[OriginalWheelman]

Takes 2 to tango.....

You're missing the point. The man and the woman make a decision in the heat of the moment and a kid happens. The woman then gets to sit by herself and make a decision that the man has no control over. A man can not force her to carry the baby full term if she decides to abort. Nor can he force her to abort if she decides to carry it to term. Once the pregnancy happens the mans hands are shackled by her decision.

Perfect example. My brother.

He and a friend had a fling when she broke up with a long term BF. She got pregnant. They talked about it and she said she would get an abortion. She then changed her mind, had the kid, and my brother has to pay child support.

[audtatious]

Two words: individual Responsibility

Does your brother NOT know what causes pregnancy?

Are you really wanting to mandate abortions if the male does not want the child?

[Kelbizzle]

I'm not ready for children That's why I don't have unprotected sex with crazy lowlifes or have sex with women who don't believe in abortions.

If you have a child and you don't have custody you should pay some child support period. Itemized list from the parent with sole custody sounds like a mess.

That should be the judges decision based on information brought to the table by the supporter (drug use by the other parent, bad spending habits or money management issues etc.) I think that should be the basis for an itemized receipt.

But I think the parent with custody should provide a list of things the child needs. Then the other parent purchases those things. and SAVES THE RECEIPTS. I've seen a friend buy thousands of dollars worth of things only to have to pay more because he couldn't prove it with receipts.

The system is sort of biased because every ad you see about child support is about s***ty fathers. Where is the ad that talks about the s***ty mothers I see. You hardly see any, it's because the common misconception is the fathers are deadbeats or it's all their fault. The system never looks at the women. I've seen lots of terrible mothers...who seemed to only have had the children in spite....they really didn't want the kids but were eager to get "revenge" my making the father pay support. I see it all the time.

[OriginalWheelman]

Does your brother NOT know what causes pregnancy?

Are you really wanting to mandate abortions if the male does not want the child?

Don't put words in my mouth. When did I say anything like that?

The point is my brother had no say in it. She said she was going to abort, didn't and now my brother has to pay. Why should he have to pay child support? If the roles were reversed and the mother wanted to terminate and the Father didn't, there would be nothing he could do.

You are trying to make this about sexual responsibility. Child support has little or NOTHING to do with that.

[OriginalWheelman]

Lag error.

[Pieceofsand]

If the roles were reversed and the mother wanted to terminate and the Father didn't, there would be nothing he could do..

QFT

[audtatious]

You are trying to make this about sexual responsibility. Child support has little or NOTHING to do with that.

It has everything to do with sexual responsibility. If he had wrapped it or kept it in his pants he would not be in that situation in the first place. It all started with the act of sex. He needs to man-up and take responsibility for his actions.

[audtatious]

I'm not ready for children That's why I don't have unprotected sex with crazy lowlifes or have sex with women who don't believe in abortions.

The mistake you are making there is having faith that the woman would actually go through with the abortion in the first place. She won't have a clue until she is in that situation. Abortion should not be a substitute for poor sexual choices in the first place.

[IanS]

It has everything to do with sexual responsibility. If he had wrapped it or kept it in his pants he would not be in that situation in the first place. It all started with the act of sex. He needs to man-up and take responsibility for his actions.

This.

[OriginalWheelman]

But Sexual Responsibility is not important in what we are talking about. You're arguing a moot point. It's like someone asking "Hey how do we clean up this nuclear fallout?" And you come in and say "Don't drop the bomb!" It's too late, bomb dropped, we're here now. How we got here is MOOT.

[Pieceofsand]

^^ Thank you. I was just about to say that.

Let's not turn this into an value argument.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

How is the law unfair to men? Men know full well what they get into when they marry. They know that if it comes to divorce they'll loose everything and have to support their children. So, men should own up to this before making the decision to have unprotected sex and before marrying.

Also generally men are the ones who work in the family. The wife stays home and the man works. 70% of his paycheck goes toward taking care of his family anyway right? I say the laws are fair. Personal responsibility is the problem NOT the law.

Ladies and gentlemen... I give you... homeschooling.
Modified by charlieo at 10:09 PM 3/14/2010

[nissangirl74]

[audtatious]

But Sexual Responsibility is not important in what we are talking about. You're arguing a moot point. It's like someone asking "Hey how do we clean up this nuclear fallout?" And you come in and say "Don't drop the bomb!" It's too late, bomb dropped, we're here now. How we got here is MOOT.

Responsibility has everything to do with it. You fail at grasping the obvious.

[NissanXEPIlot]

Well this is a bitter sweet subject for me. Yes, the system is flawed and is unfair toward the father of the child. I'll state why. and then tell my sob story. I'll TRY to keep it short.

The system does not look into family history, employment stability or even for employment. A parents mental state is often overlooked as is any addiction to a substance. I wont argue the case on morals, I have lost all respect for anything that involves DHS, Child Services, or Youth Court Services. Those that think they are doing what is best for the children often don’t have children of their own and have their heads stuck up their butts.

Got married, during the 4 years or our marriage we had 2 super sweet girls.Just before our 5th year anniversary I discovered she was having and affair. I hired a investigator and got not only audio but video proof of who she was screwing and where it was happening. I started talking to a lawyer and he left be with the bitter sweet reality that no matter how I pleaded my case and concern for my children, the odds were against me having primary rights for custody. I divorced, and was ordered to pay $275.00 in support each month, as well as 50/50 in medical & education expenses. - I paid directly to the witch, and made damn sure I got receipts on each payment. No clue where the money was being spent, but it wasn’t on my girls. I was always buying them clothes, I know kids grow but when you buy a pair of shoes or jeans they normally last more than a month. April 15th of 2002 my youngest daughter Anna was attacked by a dog, after hauling butt to the hospital, not only did I have to pay on the office visit, but it was that point that My Ex decided she couldn’t take care of our daughters anymore. Of course I was stoked about this and agreed. My girlfriend insisted that I pay the support payments into a savings account and file as primary care provider, which turned out to be pretty good advice, because 3 years after getting guardianship Rankin DHS came after me for back child support. Well once I showed I had custody that matter was dropped, but then I was hit by another back child support from Houston, Tx. youth services. It seems that the entire time I had the girls my Ex was filing for state assistance (food stamps) and listing me has not paying child support, and that she had custody. I got that matter sorted out, though it forced me to miss a few days of work. It was while my last visit in Texas I discovered that not only was the Ex a frikken Alchy but was dancing at the St. James club. Needless to say I don’t want my girls around their mother, not that it’s a issue since she 2 states away and never calls.

I wont even comment on the BS from my 2nd marrage, other than I'm glad I didnt have any kids with her!

[dre1507]

Wow. Terrible story. Good thing is you have your children with you. Cherish them and raise them right.

[OriginalWheelman]

Responsibility has everything to do with it. You fail at grasping the obvious.

1. This is not an argument, it's just a contradictory position.

2. I acknowledge your point, and it is valid. In fact, I agree with you. Notice the story is about my brother, not me.

3. Your point is still irrelevant. You have yet to state how it is, other than avoiding the child support. the discussion is about...

I will be taking stand on the biased on men on child support, and its unfairness for men.

...

Should the father have control over how the child support money is spend on the child? Or...The law is fair, how the money should be spend is entirely up to the mother.

I fail to see how a man being responsible for a pregnancy has ANYTHING to do with whether or not the system is fair towards men. In your own words...

Takes 2 to tango.....

So is the mother then not equally responsible for the pregnancy? It's not like it's all the guys fault.

So your point is moot.

moot–adjective1. open to discussion or debate; debatable; doubtful: a moot point.2. of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.3. Chiefly Law. not actual; theoretical; hypothetical.

[audtatious]

1. This is not an argument, it's just a contradictory position.

2. I acknowledge your point, and it is valid. In fact, I agree with you. Notice the story is about my brother, not me.

3. Your point is still irrelevant. You have yet to state how it is, other than avoiding the child support. the discussion is about...

The objective of the court is to ensure a child is taken care of by its respective parents. It took two people to make it. Both people know what they are doing can result in such happening. They chose to do it. They must deal with the outcome. Is it unfair that a woman can choose to abort the child when the man wants it or can refuse to abort the child if the man does not? In some form, yes. Again, it's a known fact BEFORE they have sex that it can. It's all about responsibility of the two involved in the act to deal with the consequences, period.

I fail to see how a man being responsible for a pregnancy has ANYTHING to do with whether or not the system is fair towards men. In your own words...

There are instances where the system is unfair to the man. Guess what, it don't matter one bit as this is a known fact in some cases and he had sexual relations with her anyway.

So is the mother then not equally responsible for the pregnancy? It's not like it's all the guys fault.

You don't think having the kid and raising the kid, in most instances, is not taking equal responsibility? Why do you think the court system determines monthly cost and then splits that based upon income levels? If the father was taken to task for 100% of expenses then I would wholeheartedly agree with you.

So your point is moot.

moot–adjective1. open to discussion or debate; debatable; doubtful: a moot point.2. of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.3. Chiefly Law. not actual; theoretical; hypothetical.

Thanks for that. If it were not for college boys I wouldn't understand simple terms.

[audtatious]

Well this is a bitter sweet subject for me. Yes, the system is flawed and is unfair toward the father of the child. I'll state why. and then tell my sob story. I'll TRY to keep it short.

The system does not look into family history, employment stability or even for employment. A parents mental state is often overlooked as is any addiction to a substance. I wont argue the case on morals, I have lost all respect for anything that involves DHS, Child Services, or Youth Court Services. Those that think they are doing what is best for the children often don’t have children of their own and have their heads stuck up their butts.

Got married, during the 4 years or our marriage we had 2 super sweet girls.Just before our 5th year anniversary I discovered she was having and affair. I hired a investigator and got not only audio but video proof of who she was screwing and where it was happening. I started talking to a lawyer and he left be with the bitter sweet reality that no matter how I pleaded my case and concern for my children, the odds were against me having primary rights for custody. I divorced, and was ordered to pay $275.00 in support each month, as well as 50/50 in medical & education expenses. - I paid directly to the witch, and made damn sure I got receipts on each payment. No clue where the money was being spent, but it wasn’t on my girls. I was always buying them clothes, I know kids grow but when you buy a pair of shoes or jeans they normally last more than a month. April 15th of 2002 my youngest daughter Anna was attacked by a dog, after hauling butt to the hospital, not only did I have to pay on the office visit, but it was that point that My Ex decided she couldn’t take care of our daughters anymore. Of course I was stoked about this and agreed. My girlfriend insisted that I pay the support payments into a savings account and file as primary care provider, which turned out to be pretty good advice, because 3 years after getting guardianship Rankin DHS came after me for back child support. Well once I showed I had custody that matter was dropped, but then I was hit by another back child support from Houston, Tx. youth services. It seems that the entire time I had the girls my Ex was filing for state assistance (food stamps) and listing me has not paying child support, and that she had custody. I got that matter sorted out, though it forced me to miss a few days of work. It was while my last visit in Texas I discovered that not only was the Ex a frikken Alchy but was dancing at the St. James club. Needless to say I don’t want my girls around their mother, not that it’s a issue since she 2 states away and never calls.

I wont even comment on the BS from my 2nd marrage, other than I'm glad I didnt have any kids with her!

You chose her.

Then again, who am I to say anything about it, right? Well, right out of school I made the same damn choice after the girl I was seeing got knocked up. I married her to give the kid my name and because I was stupid enough to love her at the time. 2 years later she's preggers again. 1.5 years later we get divorced due to her having affairs. Sound familiar? She connives her way back into my life after 5 months or so and we are together for another 2 miserable years until I'm financially broke and she's screwing around again. After I leave she tells me to come pick up the kids and she takes off with the guy (leaving me to pay for a weeks worth of daycare at that). After a few months I file a motion which she does not respond to and I get awarded custody. She comes back and takes me in and out of court for a year over the custody with her pro bono lawyer (and being a stripper at the time too, you sure your X is not related to mine? ) while I'm raising the kids and having to pay for mine. Eventually she does not show up for court and the case is thrown out after they finally grant me child support and a portion of my court expenses. That was in 1990. I never received a dime from her.

I did the deed and paid child support when I needed to without question as it was my responsibility. I took the kids away from the crazy b**** when I had a chance because it was the right thing to do. I never expected to get paid any form of the child support that I was awarded and I was correct. I lived and I learned. I was the stupid azz that chose her, married her and had kids by her.

As far as fairness, if anything I do believe the court system leans way too far to the mother. Not from an abortion perspective but from the "who will do a better job" perspective. In cases like yours and mine WE are the better care giver and the courts should make that determination during custody hearings. As the father, should I have not paid any portion of my child support I would have been thrown in jail without a thought. I couldn't get the courts nor police to do a damn thing about her not paying her support payments. Those are indeed things that are unfair towards the father.

[Jesda]

As a man, I'd like to have a say in an abortion. But first, I need to have sex.