Inventing Argument: Child Support

[Pieceofsand]

Writing an 1500 word essay on child support.

I will be taking stand on the biased on men on child support, and its unfairness for men.

It's a last minute topic which I had picked. I don't pay any child support nor do I have any kids. I'm doing everything I can to research and to write about it.

What do you think?Should the father have control over how the child support money is spend on the child? Or...The law is fair, how the money should be spend is entirely up to the mother.

Any personal experience or comment/suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks in advance!

[dusred]

How is the law unfair to men? Men know full well what they get into when they marry. They know that if it comes to divorce they'll loose everything and have to support their children. So, men should own up to this before making the decision to have unprotected sex and before marrying.

Also generally men are the ones who work in the family. The wife stays home and the man works. 70% of his paycheck goes toward taking care of his family anyway right? I say the laws are fair. Personal responsibility is the problem NOT the law.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

Also generally men are the ones who work in the family. The wife stays home and the man works. 70% of his paycheck goes toward taking care of his family anyway right? I say the laws are fair. Personal responsibility is the problem NOT the law.

Times have changed dude. That is usually not the case.

[93coupe]

Father should have some say as to where that money goes. I have seen in a few situations where the father is ordered to pay child support and the mother spends it on everything but the child.

[ZOMG.SR20]

Father should have some say as to where that money goes. I have seen in a few situations where the father is ordered to pay child support and the mother spends it on everything but the child.

like crack and boob jobs, lipo, face lifts....

[ImportDaddy]

The child support laws vary by state. Here in IA, the child support is more or less paying the state for the state aid that the mother (or whoever has goverment assistance) has. I pay on 2 cases of child support here and it's hell. If your late on payments here, first they revoke your hunting/fishing license, then they revoke your passport (if you have one) so you cannot flee the country, and if you are still late on payments after that, you can kiss your driver's license goodbye until it's caught up.

But there is a loophole in all of this. If someone is ever late and get the license sanctioning hearing (i've had 6...d**n economy), all you have to do is give them whatever you can, and they releave the hearing.

But in Nebraska, if you late just 3 months in a row reguardless, there is a warrant issued for your arrest and they dont care. Then your stuck there until it's caught up.

[Pieceofsand]

Marriage and divorce isn't really what I'm arguing, but rather child support. And it is unfair because:

The money is supposed to financially support the parent who have custody of the child/children paid by the other parent(often the father). Regardless of 30% or 80% visitation, the father still pays the same amount.

My argument here is should the father have some sort of debit itemize receipt to monitor how the child support money is spent by the mother. Is it a father's right to make sure the child support money is spend for the benefit of the child, not a new purse for the mother of the child?

PS: I don't know where you got your facts from, but men are not the only ones that brings home the bacon anymore. How much of ones paycheck goes in the family depends on how much he makes.

Anyways, good comment. More please.

[93coupe]

like crack and boob jobs, lipo, face lifts....

Exactly! I hate the way your mother is spending my money!

[Bmore-coupe]

Exactly! I hate the way your mother is spending my money!

[ImportDaddy]

I actually just got my divorce and CS statements finalized today. I (suprisingly) got joint physical custody (50/50 visitation, half the medical bills, etc) and I am only required to pay on $30 (yes, that's thirty) a month in support. Had I got stuck with standard visitation (every other weekend, rotatig holidays, 2 weeks in the summer) I would be required to be paying over $400 per month.

And I can get financial statements monthly to make sure that ALL of the money goes to care for my child and not her personal expenses. and if the money doesnt all go to her every month, I could go back to court and show that I could be over paying and have another hearing to get it lowered (should I be paying more). But since it's only $30 a month, I'm not sweating it at all.

[C-Kwik]

How is the law unfair to men? Men know full well what they get into when they marry. They know that if it comes to divorce they'll loose everything and have to support their children. So, men should own up to this before making the decision to have unprotected sex and before marrying.

Marriage has nothing to with child support. A father can be required to pay child support without ever having married the mother of the child.

Also generally men are the ones who work in the family. The wife stays home and the man works. 70% of his paycheck goes toward taking care of his family anyway right? I say the laws are fair. Personal responsibility is the problem NOT the law.

Child support is based on sharing the costs of raising a child. So if a father gets custody (or primary custody), the mother may be required to pay child support. Its a relatively rare circumstance, but it does occur.

As for the original question, I do believe in an ideal situation that a father has some right as to how the money is spent. Certainly there are fixed costs that it will be applied to by virtue of the fact that the mother has to pay such fixed costs already (the additional rent/cost of living space, utilities, food, etc. that is a result of raising a child). And aside from some other incidentals, I think a father should have some say with the balance of what's left after such costs. However, enforcing and arranging for it would likely be largely impractical and unreasonable for the most part. Most parents are inherently trying to do their best to raise their children. And it would be a huge inconvenience for most to either make the mother keep records of all spending on the child and/or the father to approve of spending.

I'm not sure we can see any huge improvements here. The way I see it, if the mother is not spending the funds properly (especially if there is child neglect going on), the father should take legal action. Perhaps try and gain full custody.

[IanS]

How is the law unfair to men? Men know full well what they get into when they marry. They know that if it comes to divorce they'll loose everything and have to support their children. So, men should own up to this before making the decision to have unprotected sex and before marrying.

Also generally men are the ones who work in the family. The wife stays home and the man works. 70% of his paycheck goes toward taking care of his family anyway right? I say the laws are fair. Personal responsibility is the problem NOT the law.

1955 called, they want their attitude back. You cant make broad statements like that.

In many cases, the way the child support system is set up, it works. The problem is, there are way too many people abusing the system, on both sides.

It takes 2 people to create a child. Men have to man up, and help out.

That being said, the system is flawed. It greatly favours women. This has lead to many women taking advantage of it. One of my coworkers used to pay 80% of his paycheck to his ex wife. She was getting payed to sit at home and do nothing. She had no job, and the child was old enough to be in school. After dealing with the courts for months, they finally ruled in his favor. They said that she was required to get a job, and they cut his payment in half. The system worked, but he had to fight tooth and nail to get their attention.

Too many women try to take their Xs for everything they are worth, either out of spite, or laziness. They use it as retrobution, when its meant to support the child. If I ever found myself in the situation of paying child support, and I caught my wife carrying a prada bag, payed for with my money, Id end her.

If you can not make a relationship work, and there is a child involved. Then everyone must make sacrifices, except the child.

[nissangirl74]

My argument here is should the father have some sort of debit itemize receipt to monitor how the child support money is spent by the mother. Is it a father's right to make sure the child support money is spend for the benefit of the child, not a new purse for the mother of the child?

I fully believe that the parent who is paying the child support (man or woman) is entitled to an itemized list of where the money is being spent. I offered my ex this but he declined. However, if the shoe had been on the other foot, I would have requested one from him.

How is the law unfair to men? Men know full well what they get into when they marry. They know that if it comes to divorce they'll loose everything and have to support their children. So, men should own up to this before making the decision to have unprotected sex and before marrying.

Also generally men are the ones who work in the family. The wife stays home and the man works. 70% of his paycheck goes toward taking care of his family anyway right? I say the laws are fair. Personal responsibility is the problem NOT the law.

This is so full of stereotypes I don't know where to begin. All things are not as they might seem to you young one.

I have seen in a few situations where the father is ordered to pay child support and the mother spends it on everything but the child.

I have seen this and it boils my blood. Used to work with a girl who spent her child support money on Mountain Dews and $5 / pack cigarettes. Her kids ran around in clothes that were too small.

I actually just got my divorce and CS statements finalized today. I (suprisingly) got joint physical custody (50/50 visitation, half the medical bills, etc) and I am only required to pay on $30 (yes, that's thirty) a month in support. Had I got stuck with standard visitation (every other weekend, rotatig holidays, 2 weeks in the summer) I would be required to be paying over $400 per month.

And I can get financial statements monthly to make sure that ALL of the money goes to care for my child and not her personal expenses. and if the money doesnt all go to her every month, I could go back to court and show that I could be over paying and have another hearing to get it lowered (should I be paying more). But since it's only $30 a month, I'm not sweating it at all.

Congrats dude, that's rare.

[C-Kwik]

I should also add that your topic is way broad for a 1500 word essay. With such a short essay, you'll want to narrow it down a lot more so you can make much more specific arguments. It also makes writing the essay much much easier. With a broad topic, it will be harder to make a good argument as your arguments will be very general and leave a lot of loose ends unless you want your essay to end up becoming a book. Maybe do some reaserach or based on discussion here, pick out a specific law that is unfair or perhaps some aspect of child support. Keep your audience in mind as well (for a school essay, it might be helpful to ask who your audience will be). It will not only help you write it more appropriately to your audience, but also allow you to try and choose a topic more relevant to your audience (i.e. addressing a law in your state, perhaps).

[sbird1]

I will be writing a 1500 word essay on child support.

I will be taking the stance that current child support laws are unfairly biased against men.

It's a last minute topic which I had picked. I don't pay any child support nor do I have any kids. I'm doing everything I can to research and to write about it.

What do you think?Should the father have control over how the child support money is spent on the child? Or...The law is fair, how the money should be spent is entirely up to the mother.

Any personal experience or comment/suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks in advance!

[PEZi]

i have *some* interest in this... considering my uncle is now having to pay it after his divorce

its complete bulls*** in his particular case.... his now ex wife is the epitome of everything that is wrong with america.... lazy piece of trash... always playing the system saying she's 'disabled' when she is clearly capable of working and even has a handicap sticker..... TRUST ME... she's not disabled.... she also has custody part time of their kid... and just leaves the kid with her mom (kid's grandma) and then goes out and parties instead of taking care of her... i could go on and on... but its unnecessary... she's complete trash and does nothing with her life

now... my uncle is being forced to pay child support... he has their kid part time as well and actually takes care of her! but yet.... every month... he is now being forced to pay out $150 to his ex in order for her to take care of the kid... even though she never actually does.... $100 of this goes directly to his ex which is complete BS.... the other $50 goes to their kid.... i honestly don't understand how his ex is getting anything out of the situation considering she does nothing and he does everything.... and to say the least.... i wish she would die... HONESTLY

[Pieceofsand]

Great insights everyone! Those were very helpful opinions!!

I want to raise question, since this is an argument of crisis.

With this system being flawed and favors women(most cases), and it's abused. We now face scenarios like single moms having children with multiple wealthy man and collect child support as her permanent income source.

That's the rhetorical situation I'm presenting in my argument

Something needs to be done about this.

The questions is: What?

[Pieceofsand]

I should also add that your topic is way broad for a 1500 word essay. With such a short essay, you'll want to narrow it down a lot more so you can make much more specific arguments. It also makes writing the essay much much easier. With a broad topic, it will be harder to make a good argument as your arguments will be very general and leave a lot of loose ends unless you want your essay to end up becoming a book. Maybe do some reaserach or based on discussion here, pick out a specific law that is unfair or perhaps some aspect of child support. Keep your audience in mind as well (for a school essay, it might be helpful to ask who your audience will be). It will not only help you write it more appropriately to your audience, but also allow you to try and choose a topic more relevant to your audience (i.e. addressing a law in your state, perhaps).

specific flaw would be how the money should be spend part. audience would be the general public. haha it's funny those were the same question asked by my instructor. it is a bit of a broad topic for a 1500 essay, and yet i'm struggling to squeeze out 1500 words.

you guys are helping though.

[IanS]

We now face scenarios like single moms having children with multiple wealthy man and collect child support as her permanent income source.

That's the rhetorical situation I'm presenting in my argument

Something needs to be done about this.

The questions is: What?

Well it really depends on the state laws. There are differences state to state. I dont think that would fly here in MN.

Also, you should look into the difference between alimony and child support, because they are different things, and there are different laws regarding them.

[nissangirl74]

We now face scenarios like single moms having children with multiple wealthy man and collect child support as her permanent income source......Something needs to be done about this......the questions is: What?

Nothing more I would like to see than these women have to do the right thing but there is no law, state - federal- or local, that I can think of that could force them to stop what they are doing. Especially if they are living solely off child support and receiving no type of government aid. The only option would be to prove neglect and that's difficult if the mother doesn't work and is home all day. What might be easier is to better educate men on "how-not-to-get-a-woman-knocked-up".

[C-Kwik]

specific flaw would be how the money should be spend part. audience would be the general public. haha it's funny those were the same question asked by my instructor. it is a bit of a broad topic for a 1500 essay, and yet i'm struggling to squeeze out 1500 words.

you guys are helping though.

Its counter-intuitive actually. Specific topics provide more to write about. Its because you can be more detailed and find more specific research material. Specific topic choice can have some effect on this as well. Generally, the more controversial, the more arguments tend to be available.

That said, also consider what info you are trying to use. Don't write this based on just what your opinion is. While your opinion will provide the basis for your thesis, your argument should be an attempt at proving not with your words, but through solid sources. Best way to do this is to remove your own preconceptions about the topic. Then start with some general research. Usually some statistics help with this type of issue. Seek out specific data from credible sources that help your argument. Do not ignore good counter-arguments, especially obvious ones. Address them head on. DO try and think how you would argue against yourself. This will help you to not only head off those arguments, but provide more to write about. Once you have all this info and structure it into an outline, the paper will pretty much write itself. Make sure you keep good track of your sources for your citations.

And in my opinion, your topic is still too broad. You would probably end up listing the things the money should be spent on, but not being able to dive into making strong arguments. Think of this way. The broader topic of child support could easily be written into a rather large book. The first sub-topic would probably still be more than a chapter. 1500 words is real short. Your topic needs to be very narrow. Try brainstorming about what you've chosen. Or freewrite. You'll probably find that there are a ton of even smaller topics to choose from.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

I'm supposed to pay $600 a month for 1 kid, $328 for current support and the rest in in arrears. I'm like 5-6K in the hole because I've been laid off like 4 times now, We did the DNA test in 2 seperate locations which is illegal as balls, way to easy for stuff to get F'd up that way, but since I'm paying so freakin much I can't get a lawyer while the state gives her one everytime she wants to drag me back to court (which is way to often). She changed the venue to Dover from Wilmington because she has family that work in the family court down there even though the 2 courthouses are the same distance for her, which means I have to take days off from work and drive 2 hours away. The judge has flagged my case because he's sick of seeing it in court so I wind up having to deal with him whenever I go to court. DE is a mother friendly state so while she gets to live the highlife off of my coin I'm stuck in a s*** hole and b/c of the arrears I haven't seen a tax return in like 6 years. Being that I only make like $525 a week before taxes to have $600 of that go to her really pisses me off. Is the system unfair, very much so, we weren't married, she gets preferential treatment while they treat me like a dead beat when I'm actually just dead broke thanks to them, and to top it all off I can't get a passport (which puts a huge damper on honeymoon spots) and CS is reported to credit agencies. Now if I had the money to hire a lawyer I can prove that this kid isn't mine, and that her and the court are just taking me for a ride, that she is using her influences and family ties to direct the court and shaft me and hopefully win me a civil suit case against her and the state. Honestly, all I want is for it to go away, in the even that the kid is mine then by all means I'll man up and stop b****ing about having to pay the cs as long as it's a fair amount.

Oh and I've never seen the kid, we were never married, and the state of Delaware won't let you sign away your parental rights without the other parties consent, which she won't give because she's a gold digging b**** that doesn't work. /rant
Modified by Chaotic_Warlord at 10:05 AM 3/11/2010

[Bubba1]

I'm supposed to pay $600 a month for 1 kid, $328 for current support and the rest in in arrears. I'm like 5-6K in the hole because I've been laid off like 4 times now, We did the DNA test in 2 seperate locations which is illegal as balls, way to easy for stuff to get F'd up that way, but since I'm paying so freakin much I can't get a lawyer while the state gives her one everytime she wants to drag me back to court (which is way to often). She changed the venue to Dover from Wilmington because she has family that work in the family court down there even though the 2 courthouses are the same distance for her, which means I have to take days off from work and drive 2 hours away. The judge has flagged my case because he's sick of seeing it in court so I wind up having to deal with him whenever I go to court. DE is a mother friendly state so while she gets to live the highlife off of my coin I'm stuck in a s*** hole and b/c of the arrears I haven't seen a tax return in like 6 years. Being that I only make like $525 a week before taxes to have $600 of that go to her really pisses me off. Is the system unfair, very much so, we weren't married, she gets preferential treatment while they treat me like a dead beat when I'm actually just dead broke thanks to them, and to top it all off I can't get a passport (which puts a huge damper on honeymoon spots) and CS is reported to credit agencies. Now if I had the money to hire a lawyer I can prove that this kid isn't mine, and that her and the court are just taking me for a ride, that she is using her influences and family ties to direct the court and shaft me and hopefully win me a civil suit case against her and the state. Honestly, all I want is for it to go away, in the even that the kid is mine then by all means I'll man up and stop b****ing about having to pay the cs as long as it's a fair amount.

Oh and I've never seen the kid, we were never married, and the state of Delaware won't let you sign away your parental rights without the other parties consent, which she won't give because she's a gold digging b**** that doesn't work. /rant

Modified by Chaotic_Warlord at 10:05 AM 3/11/2010

2 words... Maury Povich Many of his shows deal with free DNA paternity tests. Plus consider the added bonus of wearing a NICO t-shirt on national tv...

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Unfortunately those tests are not admissible in family court for child support enforcement. I'd also like to add that the Federal Government is very much in effect with child support enforcement. While the law varies from state to state, the federal government sets the minimum standard and the enforcement practices, hence the reason why states can confiscate your passport, take away your license and take both your state and local tax returns. CS is supposed to be taken out as pre-tax dollars and they by law aren't allowed to take any more than 30% of your total income, however that 30% is a large chunk of change especially when you have bills to pay and families to support.

[audtatious]

There's lots of BS that goes on, BUT it happens both ways. There are plenty of lazy guys around who don't want to be bothered with their kids nor responsibilities and there are plenty of women who use our social bias as a way to get a "free ride". Two words: individual Responsibility

[APEXi240]

Also generally men are the ones who work in the family. The wife stays home and the man works. 70% of his paycheck goes toward taking care of his family anyway right? I say the laws are fair. Personal responsibility is the problem NOT the law.

1965 called, it wants its stereotype back.

[etschell]

first of all child support is based on the main wage earner. so by stating that its males that get f***ed its really only true if you concede that womens make less monies cause their uterus gets children.

[audtatious]

Not necessarily. There are plenty of examples where the mother shacks up with some other dude and since she has no real income the father gets reamed in court to pay the huge majority. I've also seen where the father busts butt to get overtime pay in order to make ends meet only to have the mother go back after more child support because he has more income. Of course, when the OT stops the father is even worse off than he was.

Lots of ways to abuse the system.

[dre1507]

The thing is that men in general brought this upon themselves. There will always be lazy fathers, so some of the good ones often get bunched in without a chance to fight for custody, and it seems as time passes, more and more lazy mothers are popping up. They sponge off the plight of women before them who actually took care of their kid(s) when the father(s) left. Women who upon receiving little to no child support worked one to two jobs just to make sure their kid(s) were well taken care of. The laws are the way they are today because of those women. But now a lot of women today are exploiting these laws that came about to benefit women who actually needed a little extra help.

It isn't right, but until more men start stepping up to the plate and showing that they are the one more suitable to take care of the kids, nothing will be done.
Modified by dre1507 at 11:14 AM 3/12/2010

[audtatious]

Let's open a can of worms here. The courts feel that women can do a better job than men of raising children so what does that do for gay marriages? Two women are better than one woman? Two women better than a married couple? One man is less than one woman and two women? Two men are twice as bad as one woman?

Maybe that could be something to write about, male custody in the metrosexual environment