how to set up s14 for road racing

[sr20goofus]

Keep in mind everyone, that center of gravity, roll center, and roll moment also have huge factors when determining sway bar choices. Full on racecars do use rear swaybars.

no one here is building a "full on racecar", and knowing from experience what helps for track weekends with our cars suspension design is how the idea of no-sway started. Just because other cars use them doesnt mean you have to run one because "other people are doing it, so should i."

[AceInhole]

no one here is building a "full on racecar", and knowing from experience what helps for track weekends with our cars suspension design is how the idea of no-sway started. Just because other cars use them doesnt mean you have to run one because "other people are doing it, so should i."

Mine and DJ's are "full on racecars". They're built for racing, although for somewhat different applications.

I dropped my rear sway as a suggestion from a BMW racer. The car linked in the photo with the blade front also ran without a rear bar.

It's also more than just experience. From a physics/ engineering standpoint, you're just adjusting roll resistance.

91rs13:What springs are you running? I think I've asked before, but I can't recall. With the rear bar gone you might just need to bump the springs up in back... I have mine at 450#, with 600# up front. IIRC Jeff was running 9kg/7kg on Stance shocks. I offered to lend him my Koni setup... I wish he took me up on it :P

[91rs13]

Mine and DJ's are "full on racecars".

Well that is being rather generous in my case I think

What springs are you running? I think I've asked before, but I can't recall. With the rear bar gone you might just need to bump the springs up in back... I have mine at 450#, with 600# up front. IIRC Jeff was running 9kg/7kg on Stance shocks. I offered to lend him my Koni setup... I wish he took me up on it :P

550 front and 500 rear --car is 2650 without my big butt in it. And running Koni Yellows.

Originally I had 350 rear --and was bottoming out on the bump in the downhill at LRP.

[sr20goofus]

what are you guys considering "full on racecars" ?

i really hate to sound like an a$$hole, i have alwayy considered racecars to have cages, do nothind but race with other cars, never DD, run slicks, hard brakes, bucket seats, 5-6pnt harness's, etc like that.

[Slappy]

Not to come on here and start anything , but this is what i feel is a "full on race car". Not a gutted 240.

[RyanAwesome]

Wasnt attacking anyone. I was stating, Just in case some one gets the wrong impression that all vehicles handle better without swaybars. But yes i do agree with what you are saying regarding less exrteme racing examples.

[91rs13]

what are you guys considering "full on racecars" ?

i really hate to sound like an a$$hole, i have alwayy considered racecars to have cages, do nothind but race with other cars, never DD, run slicks, hard brakes, bucket seats, 5-6pnt harness's, etc like that.

I guess a full on race car could be any competition car--although the Mercedes DTM car is really a full on race car.

Actually --thay is why I suggested PJ was being generous about my car in calling it full on.

It has not been on the street for about 1.5 years, has a 4 pt roll bar, race seats ( aluminum) ,5 pt harnesses, only runs R compounds and travels on a trailer on the street. I use it for AutoX , HPDE's and this past year started in Time Trials with COMSCC and EMRA. No door to door for me--the budget cannot handle it right now.

Its ugly--but here are some HPDE picshttp://picasaweb.google.com/91...7tAgs

[AceInhole]

what are you guys considering "full on racecars" ?

Hence the quotes. In the end, it's really application based. You can run a nearly stock motor, do minor suspension work, and cage a 240sx to run ITA/ITB competitevely. Anything more takes you out of the class.

In that sense, my car is (was?) purpose built to win/ compete in SCCA Solo National (tour and pro) level races. DJ's car is built solely for race use. Even if not "built to the hilt", it's still a racecar.

Quote »i really hate to sound like an a$$hole, i have alwayy considered racecars to have cages, do nothind but race with other cars, never DD, run slicks, hard brakes, bucket seats, 5-6pnt harness's, etc like that.[/quote]I didn't mean for my statement to sound defensive. I was just pointing out that there are "built entirely for racing only" (which may be a better term than "full on racecar"?) cars around.

[Shift_Kouki]

Speaking of 240s and prepping them for road racing... Where can I buy a set of carbotech pads? I feel a set of XP10's or XP8's would be a good idea up front.

I'm only doing 20-30 minute HPDE sessions, but I never want to see fade like I had on my first hyper drive ever again.

[Slappy]

Where can I buy a set of carbotech pads?

http://www.google.com/search?h...+pads

(0.17 seconds)

[Shift_Kouki]

DOH... yeah I didn't realize you just buy direct, and ask them what products are best for your situation. Been staring at their site all morning and didn't pick that up.

Oh well, I'll give em a call Monday.

Next question: Brake Ducting.... What are you guys doing for it, and how are sending the air into the center of the rotors? Modifying the dust shields? If so, I'd love to see some pics of how you guys are doing that.

[sr20goofus]

dont buy a pad like the xp10 or xp8 if youve only done one hyperdrive. get like 2 HPDE's at elast in on like Hawk HP+ or somethign similar. Brake ducting isnt necessary yet also, if you are getting your brakes hot enough to need them already, then your prolly holding the brakes in too long.

wait for serious pads and ducting type stuff till its necessary, that way your money gan go towards seat time.

[Slappy]

that way your money can go towards seat time.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000

[HowardSX]

for you guys so well setting up s14 with experience, can you give me some suggestion grip setting on s14 for wet road condition(specially at cornering)? i'm willing buy some used parts and tune them but i just dont know what parts & setup spec is best for the grip

i've drove s13,2s14 for 3yrs and i always like to push it to the limit on cornering whether its dry or wet road, but recently i felt my car is very slipery on wet roads(always floating) after i streched the tires(whl offset reason) and negative the camber.

here is the mod and spec: dunlop sp9090 235 on 17x9 worn camber on outside, tein flex F6kg/R5kg with F3'/R2.35' camber & stock toe & lowered with hard damp setting , F&R strut bars, stock else
Modified by HowardSX at 11:34 AM 12/16/2007

[Joe]

get rid of the stretched tires and remove some camber

you cant make a car corner better when you only have 1" of contact patch per side.

[HowardSX]

but would i though the theory of stalibility & traction on cornering is to get negative camber? i could understand i dont need -3' for the street & hwy exits but there still require amont of camber degree right? another idea i was planning, would it be balanced for picking up rear tires if i put 50kg of audio/battery in the trunk to compensate the F&R&corner weight balance?

[Slappy]

For a street car , your being to technical about this , especailly if your saying your speeding around corners on public highway. Take it to the track , and these guys will give you a serious answer.

[HowardSX]

For a street car , your being to technical about this , especailly if your saying your speeding around corners on public highway. Take it to the track , and these guys will give you a serious answer.

ya that would best idea, but i just couldn't control my self to enjoy the speed on cornering, dont misunderstood me, i never street racing or put someone else in danger, i just dont like the feeling my raining cornering limit is so low and seeing FF & AWD passing me like i'm agranma, coz i believe s14 still has room to tune for better traction.

[Slappy]

I see. Its just hard to give advice on suspension / alignment settings when we dont know the persons driving style , how they want thier car to "feel" ect. Its a personal preference thing. All i can tell you is to try experimenting with different settings on your own and see what feels best for you.

[crackler]

Take some rear shock out as well. On my S13 I had half a turn from full hard in front and half a turn from full soft in the rear (KONI Yellows w Tien S. Tech Springs). My car was snap over steer happy with both ends set at full hard. even with the rear set softer it still would snap over steer if properly provoked, but it took a lot more to do it, and it wasn't as harsh. I could actually catch it most of the time. This all was during autoX'es.

You might also try to get some more front caster as well.

I had my rear camber set to the least it would go, due to lower ride hight. I believe I was around -1.25 / -1.5 in the rear, and about the same in the front. But I also had front camber plates

Also, a better non-stretched tires will help more than most anything. Run the right sized tire for the wheel, I never under stood stretching tires. I want my tires to work, not look kool. You might be having problems due to the tire being miss-shaped from the stretch, just a guess, I am not familiar with what stretching tires does to the contact patch/sidewalls.Falken 615'sKuhmo MX's The new Bridgestone (I forget the model RE016 or something)(I think their might be another one coming out as well)I here Toyo has a ST tire in the works as well

What does "worn Camber on outside" mean, Are you running positive Camber???

As for lifting the rear tire mid corner, try unhooking the rear sway bar.

And who cares if you drive like a grandma in the rain??? I don't try to impress every boi racer / soccer mom with my mad skillz. Just take it easy on the streets and get where ever you go safely. Go to the track / autoX to find the limits. That is also a good place to talk with people who have similiare set-ups that can help you out more than a bunch of bench racers.

[nismoautoxr]

i no this mite be out of topic, but my question is what brand of coilovers do you guys have, brand and model please.ive been to the track already and autocross and i noticed that i need coilovers really bad. my stock shocks are going out too. people have been telling me to get kts or stance. any opinions? please!!!!

i just want to have a really good 240 car, well setup and everything and show people that 240s are not just good at drifting, they can also kick *** in road racing.

I have ground control front struts with koni valving and koni yellows in the rear with ground control adjusters and eibach springs.I am still toying with the spring rates (550 lbin2 in front and 325lbin2 in rear.Im liking it and it keeps getting better.Its trial and error really.Fun though.http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.htmlThere is some useful info in this article .I havnt autoxd this setup yet but Ive been to TGPR and Barbers withit and am liking it there, but, I fear that the rear is going to be loose on our rough autox site.

Funny story ...I went to Road Atlanta to work corners right after I put the coilovers and sways on and I camped at the track.THe spot I parked was in grass on pretty uneven surface.I backed the car up the next morning and attempted to go but _denied_!!! I got out of the car and the RR tire was off the ground .Note to self(no LSD + wheel off the ground equals no movement LMAO

Ricky-
Modified by nismoautoxr at 6:50 PM 12/17/2007

[WI_S14_Goldie]

Here's the general set-ups:If your car tends to oversteer...you want a stiffer front and "softer rearIf your car tends to understeer...you want a softer front and stiffer rear

For Grip:Depending on your preference, i'd upgrade to a bigger swaybar up front and possibly a strut bar to reduce oversteer (since our S14's like to "oversteer" every so often)...but before you do that; you should take it out to the tracks stock to get a grasp of what you're working with...

[Slappy]

I enjoy reading this thread.

[sr20goofus]

I enjoy reading this thread.

for the good amount of information? or because of misinformation and that makes it amusing....

overall i think there is some decent info here.

[Slappy]

I was being serious Casey. I learned alot from you guys.

[sr20goofus]

sorry slappski just making sure, you know nhow many sarcastic people there are on FA and such, just a habbit of thinkin otherwise, my apologies.

PS guys i just learned moe abotu the energy suspension bushings the other day.

RED - possibility of being permanently deformed due to 100% polyurathane design, mostly Honda problem, but potential; for Nissan also.

Black - polyurathane with teflon imprenated into compound before setting up bushings, this way they are self lubricating and will no deform.

i have a set of bushing son there way to my house meow, i know its S13 but the same idea should apply, this is going to be a greta upgrade for everyone, since not many people do them. replacing 16yr old bushigns with new and upgraded shoudl do wonders, and its much cheaper then doing the bearings with run $$$$$$$.

[Slappy]

Are you talking about RED and Black Energy Suspension bushings? I thought the only difference was the color.....

[sr20goofus]

Are you talking about RED and Black Energy Suspension bushings? I thought the only difference was the color.....

turn out there is a difference, just not well known to the public

[Slappy]

Hmm , thats pretty rad. Can you link me to your source so i can post this on my site please?

[sr20goofus]

Hmm , thats pretty rad. Can you link me to your source so i can post this on my site please?

here is general source of info, more specific info i dont know but my brother looked it up.

http://www.energysuspension.co....html