Help me pick a T3 for Drag racing

[SlIp'n'sLiDe]

good god man ...that d/s is twisted beyond belief. Even though aluminum is fairly soft,I am shocked that that didn't break.

[gingerbredman]

So WD, are you using stock injectors? I've been trying to follow along and I read across where you were using the 4:1 with 2 fuel pumps. Curious, could you use any injector and utilize an fmu to increase it's output like that? You've chimed in before on using fmu's for low-boost setups but I thought that was IT for fmu's lol! jeewhiz I'd have never thunk it, 12psi!

[WDRacing]

I'll need more fuel then the FMU can safely supply. The 4:1 FMU and dual pumps will work, it's just going to be a ton of pressure. The point of this for me is to make as much power as possible while spending as little money as possible.

I have a set of 42lb injectors, some fuel rail stock and a Bosch Adj FPR in my garage from a previous project. So I'll be making my own top feed rail and using the "Hacked MAF" to control the larger injectors. Ignition will be stock and I'll be using water to kill knock. With the 42lb injectors I should be able to run 12 psi alot safer, maybe even 14 psi depending on the AFR's etc.

WD

[gingerbredman]

Ah, ok that makes sense.

I was gonna say, 4:1 on stock injectors isn't making a lick of sense to me right now.. it would give a pretty lean mixture and therefore wouldn't require as much fuel pressure. I think..

[WDRacing]

I figured the 4:1 would put me in the 12:1 AFR range in boost. Which is actually what I prefer. I don't like the 11's at all, maybe around peak torque, but thats it. IMO the 11's is just wasting fuel.

WD

[GODCHSR]

Just an update. My Jeep is almost back on the road. SO, that means the S14 will probably get parked in the next week or so and start the transition into a beat.

I am also considering going with a smaller wheels and meatier tire with lower pressure. The 18s are f'in heavy and I think something like a Z32TT wheels would better suffice. Looking at weights and prices now ftr.

My front wheel/tire setup is currently 55lbs eachThe rears are 56lbs (tires are larger but not the wheels)

So if I can take a few pounds of weight off of each corner and run with a slightly lower rear tire pressure I think I might be able to increase my 60' just a smidge.

Of course I haven't driven this car ONE TIME in a drag so I have no idea how it's going to react at all. It should be fun. I have spares of everything in case break something in the first few weeks of Spring lol

[GODCHSR]

Coilovers are in.

Why didn't anyone tell me it would make such a HUGE difference! Holy CRAP! Seriously the thing barely has any give at all. It is TIGHT!!!!

I was showing some friends in my garage yesterday. I stood on the trunk and bounced my weight and it BARELY moved at all.

I am in awe.... going to the store was awesome too... IE:Normally I would have to get a slight swing from to right to 'throw' the car one way in order to compensate for the sway/energy being absorbed... NO more.. NO MORE! I can turn and hit the gas and the thing just slides! I mean seriously, it just freaking goes sideways!

Anyway, having a welded diff helps a ton I am sure, but for the record... coilovers are THEE way to go.

[WDRacing]

Don't you want it to squat when you launch? I've always run a slightly lose suspension in the back so the car would squat and launch like a scalded dog. This way you're not just relying on your tires to squat and grab.

Unless of course when you launch your suspension is squatting, in which case...awesome

[neverlift]

IMHO coil overs suck for drag(in the 240 world anyways, being geared towards drifting)

tein ands gr2s had great off the line grip in comparison to coil overs. Even on the welded diff.

This is over already, tires are gonna blow off on launch without some serious suspension reconsideration or launch control. thread jackhey wd 370's are in awaiting me to tune them,fmu still hooked up but no boost source till I make a 9psi restrictor. Water injection should get turned up tomorrow. Thinking back up to 8psi.

[GODCHSR]

I am a pretty nice guy so you'll have to forgive me for being so direct in saying this, but you are way off base in assuming that "squat" is good for drag.

Assuming you weren't able to get the tires to hook the squat characteristics would be more ideal than say, having your car burn out or move sideways on you.The reality is though, if your chassis/suspension is all tuned properly then the rear of the car should lift when you launch. NOT SQUAT.

We may simply be in disagreement but I have found that in time Great minds do indeed start to think alike. So I'll give it time for you to read up on the subject a bit more.

I have found that 'squatting' is something I believed early in my car days and when I think about who told me it... it was a redneck with a busted up Mustang.The people I associate with now own shops and have proven records of success. Hopefully I can gain something from their experience and a little humility from myself.

[GODCHSR]

[GODCHSR]

Oh, I forgot the whole reason I came in today...

Yesterday got the transmission removed and replaced the RMS. About to install the CM Flywheel.

Weighed it side by side to the stock flywheel and it is 7 lbs lighter!

After I get that in I'll put in the Stage 5 Comp Clutch. The OEM was pretty worn down. The rivets were grinding... lol

Anyway. Should be a pretty good week once the snow melts. I'm gonna take it out and start working on the 500 mile break in. Nothing aggressive. Then it'll come back in and the subframe is coming out entirely. Upgrading the subframe bushings to SPL, diff bushings to SPL and all the arms are going away in replacement of something better.

The SPL arms are pretty expensive so I may go with something like Megan or ISIS. I am ok with spending a bit less in this area since my main goal is adjustability.

After that... who knows. Probably go ahead and start piping the kit up and put in the new sensors (MAP, Wideband, Boost solenoid... all AEM to the EMS)

That should be mid-march by the time the tuning is complete.

[WDRacing]

I totally understand about how cars "should" launch if everything is set up correctly. I've seen shots of older muscle cars with 3 of 4 wheels actually off on launch.

But I've never driven a car that well set up before. I've always had a car that was loser in the rear and it has enabled me to cut consistent 1.6's in the 60. Hopefully you can cut a 1.3 or something, THAT would be friggin sweet and would pay dividends on the big end

I'm totally stoked to see how fast you can go man.

[WDRacing]

I'm sure you're not retarded when it comes to braking in the motor. But My only suggestion is to have the motor pull lots of vacuum while driving the first 50 miles or so. Like motor braking in 2nd for a little bit etc. AND never lug the motor during brake in...again, you probably know all this, I just have to add my .02

WD

[GODCHSR]

I'm sure you're not retarded when it comes to braking in the motor. But My only suggestion is to have the motor pull lots of vacuum while driving the first 50 miles or so. Like motor braking in 2nd for a little bit etc. AND never lug the motor during brake in...again, you probably know all this, I just have to add my .02

WD

I meant breaking in the clutch.

I'm running a stock 150,000 mile motor since my compression is good.

I'm gonna have a spare in my garage with oem bearings, etc... but that won't be a trip anywhere, just the KC area.

My guess is that I might end up blowing a transmission early on in Spring. The motor is probably gonna start getting weak towards summer so hopefully if it spins a bearing it'll do it before any word on an Oklahoma trip is finalized. lol To give me time to replace it.

Any thoughts as to setting a date?Our department starts vacations bids later this month... luckily we can stack vacations 2 deep (2 people gone at a time), and aside from that I never work on the Thurs, Fri or Sat. So if this was a Friday night to Saturday night type of thing that gives me plenty of time to go and come back.

Maybe we should look into a flat area nearby and have a local start prepping for a drift event???There's plenty of time to make this thing awesome!

In fact why I didn't think of this before... Our companies HQ is in Tulsa OK! I wonder if I could get it 'sponsored'.?.?.? We are a fuel company

[WDRacing]

Well I'm gonna be ready by the Nico Omaha meet. I'm racing one of the SR guys there, but it's only the 1/8th and it's only open Friday night. I just ended up challenging him in another thread about a WRX...lol.

You should try to go to that meet as well, if nothing else then to have burgers/beer and shoot the breeze about cars with good people. I can't remember if you drink or not, if not I'll drink yours

My entire setup is changing btw. I'm now using a M62 blower and definitely nitrous.

[GODCHSR]

When is it?

[GODCHSR]

It's only 3 and a half hours away, so I'd probably be game

[spank044]

but you are way off base in assuming that "squat" is good for drag.

Assuming you weren't able to get the tires to hook the squat characteristics would be more ideal

The squat transfer the sudden shock form the drive train into down force inertia on the rear end instead of it staying in the drive train and breaking the tires loose. If squat is no good for drag racing then why do the world record turbo drag cars all squat on launch. The Titan supra, AMS Evo, or Ivan's 9 sec KAT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdQFV-gz ... iULZm4rH2o

[GODCHSR]

The squat transfer the sudden shock form the drive train into down force inertia on the rear end instead of it staying in the drive train and breaking the tires loose. If squat is no good for drag racing then why do the world record turbo drag cars all squat on launch. The Titan supra, AMS Evo, or Ivan's 9 sec KAT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdQFV-gz ... iULZm4rH2o

The first thing to note is that it is natural for the car to want to squat because of energy transfer.

IE:Floor the gas and you tend to get pushed back in your seat.

The tires are wanting to move forward and the only problem is that it's lugging this huge car on it's back! lol SO the natural reaction is for the car to move back.

If there is any room for play in the rear springs the rear will squat and/or the tires will lift just enough to spin.

If there is no room for play in the rear springs then all the energy for body shift and front lift goes directly to the tire and isn't potentially lost in the springs.

The squatting you gave in example is minimal imo. I won't try to be cocky and suggest I know more than them. I'm sure they know what they are doing.

I have plenty of time to grow in knowledge and experience. It'll be a good year!

[WDRacing]

Ivans car has almost no squat dude. Squat is not a bad thing for drag racing, simple physics explains weight transfer etc. But not all cars have a lot of squat on the launch. I define squat as by a good bit of dip in the rear end, not just a slight dip that basically can't be tuned out, there is just to much weight transfer.

My car will squat

[WDRacing]

So...

I SERIOUSLY just want to go automatic. If I had the money to bolt up a TH400 I'd be ALL over it. Sadly, I do not have the funds for that.

I wonder how much power the KA slushbox would hold if I had Precision Industries rebuild the converter? Any guesses? Assuming that the only time it would see nitrous or more boost then 10 psi would be on the track. Also, KA auto's are literally lying around everywhere. I could probably get 4-5 donated to the cause from just Nico members alone I have one just sitting in my yard under a tarp

[GODCHSR]

Ivans car has almost no squat dude.

I assume you were talking to Spank because I said:

The squatting you gave in example is minimal imo.

[GODCHSR]

...Squat is not a bad thing for drag racing, simple physics explains weight transfer etc. But not all cars have a lot of squat on the launch. I define squat as by a good bit of dip in the rear end, not just a slight dip that basically can't be tuned out, there is just to much weight transfer.

My car will squat

I'm not suggesting squat is 'bad'. I am suggesting it's not optimal to have excessive squat. and if Anti-Squat can be achieved I believe that to be optimal in reducing power loss.

[GODCHSR]

So...

I SERIOUSLY just want to go automatic. If I had the money to bolt up a TH400 I'd be ALL over it. Sadly, I do not have the funds for that.

I wonder how much power the KA slushbox would hold if I had Precision Industries rebuild the converter? Any guesses? Assuming that the only time it would see nitrous or more boost then 10 psi would be on the track. Also, KA auto's are literally lying around everywhere. I could probably get 4-5 donated to the cause from just Nico members alone I have one just sitting in my yard under a tarp

I have no idea of it's potential. Is the Convertor the weak link in the Auto?

I am considering after busting a couple 5spds up switching to a Z32 trans. I'd like to go to an Auto for track use but something about the 5 spd...

[GODCHSR]

The squat transfer the sudden shock form the drive train into down force inertia on the rear end instead of it staying in the drive train and breaking the tires loose... blah blah blah

Mike Canter of OutLaw Pro Mod:"The rear of the car with this added weight transferred from the rising front will lift very little but it should not go down (squat). An inch or two is normal and can be best seen by looking at the relationship between the top of the slicks and the rear fender lip. This one or two inches of rise will indicate that the rear of the car is lifting and pushing harder on the tires while the front weight is being transferred (for every motion there is an equal and opposite motion).If the front of the car does not rise first then the front shocks are too stiff or the rear shocks are not stiff enough.If the rear of the car squats right away then the rear shocks are too loose."

Baseline Suspensions:" If the rear end squats that means that the rear springs/shocks are not pushing the rear tires into the ground. They are just compressing. For the most part you don't want the rear to squat because you want some resistance from the springs/shocks to transfer the force/weight to the tires."

Modified.com:"Rear-wheel-drive drag racers have made a science of anti-squat tuning to maximize rear-wheel traction. Drag cars often have so much anti-squat geometry that the back of the car actually lifts when launching, driving the tires into the ground."

I know I could go on and on but hopefully this isn't a d!ck measuring contest and rather a place to learn.

[spank044]

You can call it a d!ck measuring contest, but you can't put all rwd cars into one category. I would say most of the google results you are copying and pasting on referenced a solid drive axle vehicle and not a IRS system. The first features a Chevelle, the second a Mustang with a 4 link, and the modified has this quote "anti-squat can cause wheelspin and rear wheel hop under power, which is why the Z32 is notorious for launching poorly at the dragstrip."

Do a search and read more about independent rear suspension drag setups, if you read more into both systems you start to see a fork in the road of suspension tuning differences. The cars in the video show what I consider to be average squat for a setup IRS drag car. My S13 has Tein S tech and GR2's and when I was launching with 15 psi I only drooped about 2" and it didn't come back up for about 30 feet when I shifted. I just assumed you were talking about our cars and not solid axle setups that are much easier to tune for a track setup. A solid rear just needs a good set of cal tracks and some track time to dial it in, but for us we need to do some serious math and expensive trial and error to build a good setup.

Good luck getting your 240sx to lift on launch.
Modified by spank044 at 7:05 PM 2/8/2010

[WDRacing]

It's all minutia really bro...

When you're comparing a .1 or .2 second advantage in just the 60 foot there is no seriousness or factual blah blah blah to be had. We're talking about a very minute amount of difference between suspension setups.

Like I said, I cut 1.6's and I HAVE SOFT SUSPENSION. That's fact...no need to argue anything on my end. We're talking about eeking every last bit of performance out here. Which is a conversation that I don't even fit in

[spank044]

It's all minutia really bro...

Freebeer and Hotwings fan huh?

[WDRacing]

I could bath in hotwings and beer dude