Headers, O2 sensors, JWT ECU, & air/fuel ratio question
Heavy...you are so correct on the sound of the diff....sounds like a damn 747 taking off or a F16 hauling a$$. I talked with the shop and they are going to put back in the OEM diff tomorrow morning...and also do some dyno runs. I can't wait to get that damn thing out of my car.
I am really interested in the dyno graphs and curves as well. From seeing other before and after dyno graphs from the addition of headers...I know the slopes will have definitely changed.
Okay now...get this. I am on my way to work this morning and there and behold is about 10 motorcycle cops doing a speed trap in a 30mph zone. I drive by and go damn...this will answer my question so I do a u-turn and pull up. They look at me like what? He was not speeding and so I asked them to clock me becuase I thought my speedo was off from a few mods. The cops were cool and said no problem. So there I am going down the road at 35mph and when I reach them I ask them what the radar gun says...they said it was 29-30....never above 30mph and I had it pegged perfectly at 35mph. So my speedo is off but I have always know that it reads about 2-3mph over from previous unfortunate experience and the "this sign tells you how fast you are going" on the side of the road signs. I am running the stock 215/65/15 Falkens tires.
So maybe I do have some sort of a gear, but not a 4.08. Maybe I have the 97-01 Q45 gear? Man....my car is really screwed up right now!!!! I can't wait to get the original OEM diff in...at least that will eliminate a couple of things that are in question...not too mention that damn 747 sound in my back seat.
I am really interested in the dyno graphs and curves as well. From seeing other before and after dyno graphs from the addition of headers...I know the slopes will have definitely changed.
Okay now...get this. I am on my way to work this morning and there and behold is about 10 motorcycle cops doing a speed trap in a 30mph zone. I drive by and go damn...this will answer my question so I do a u-turn and pull up. They look at me like what? He was not speeding and so I asked them to clock me becuase I thought my speedo was off from a few mods. The cops were cool and said no problem. So there I am going down the road at 35mph and when I reach them I ask them what the radar gun says...they said it was 29-30....never above 30mph and I had it pegged perfectly at 35mph. So my speedo is off but I have always know that it reads about 2-3mph over from previous unfortunate experience and the "this sign tells you how fast you are going" on the side of the road signs. I am running the stock 215/65/15 Falkens tires.
So maybe I do have some sort of a gear, but not a 4.08. Maybe I have the 97-01 Q45 gear? Man....my car is really screwed up right now!!!! I can't wait to get the original OEM diff in...at least that will eliminate a couple of things that are in question...not too mention that damn 747 sound in my back seat.
Use the Force!!!! I like that one there Heavy. I don't know why I manually shift either except that on my 2nd run I did it and got a 0.1 improvement so I figured that this was the way to go and hold the gear longer than it would if I left it in drive. I guess if I coughed up another $450 for the JWT TCU I would not have to worry about this stuff. Maybe that will be the next mod on my list...that is if there are any more mods to come as this crap is getting really old really quick. Before was fun...now it is just a pain in the a$$.
Dont know how much the weather would play a part in the hp and tq numbers but this is what it looked like last night, I think the relative humidity was about 67%, maybe Dennis can shed some light on this
TimeEDT (UTC) TemperatureF (C) Dew PointF (C) PressureInches (hPa) WindMPH
11 PM (3) Jun 30 82.9 (28.3) 73.0 (22.8) 30.12 (1019) ESE 7 10 PM (2) Jun 30 84.0 (28.9) 73.9 (23.3) 30.12 (1019) E 10 light rain 9 PM (1) Jun 30 84.0 (28.9) 73.9 (23.3) 30.11 (1019) E 12 light rain with thunder 8 PM (0) Jun 30 84.9 (29.4) 73.9 (23.3) 30.09 (1018) E 10 7 PM (23) Jun 30 87.1 (30.6) 73.9 (23.3) 30.07 (1018) E 14 6 PM (22) Jun 30 88.0 (31.1) 72.0 (22.2) 30.08 (1018) E 13 5 PM (21) Jun 30 87.1 (30.6) 71.1 (21.7) 30.09 (1018) E 12
TimeEDT (UTC) TemperatureF (C) Dew PointF (C) PressureInches (hPa) WindMPH
11 PM (3) Jun 30 82.9 (28.3) 73.0 (22.8) 30.12 (1019) ESE 7 10 PM (2) Jun 30 84.0 (28.9) 73.9 (23.3) 30.12 (1019) E 10 light rain 9 PM (1) Jun 30 84.0 (28.9) 73.9 (23.3) 30.11 (1019) E 12 light rain with thunder 8 PM (0) Jun 30 84.9 (29.4) 73.9 (23.3) 30.09 (1018) E 10 7 PM (23) Jun 30 87.1 (30.6) 73.9 (23.3) 30.07 (1018) E 14 6 PM (22) Jun 30 88.0 (31.1) 72.0 (22.2) 30.08 (1018) E 13 5 PM (21) Jun 30 87.1 (30.6) 71.1 (21.7) 30.09 (1018) E 12
Had a great time last night with Rob.....The last time I played this game at Moroso was in 1965 when I had a GTO.
It took me a couple of runs to get my reaction times down, but once I settled in I think I got some respectable times and also answered some questions for myself about the performance of the 96Q and the OBD2 engine.
Here are my first and last runs.
!st Run..... R/T.. 1.153 last Run.... R/T... .673 60'... 2.511 60'.... 2.550 330.. 6.981 330... 7.011 1/8... 10.49 1/8... 10.46 mph.. 70.92 mph... 71.86 1000.. 13.47 1000... 13.40 1/4... 16.006 1/4.... 15.888 mph... 88.13 mph... 90.06
I believe I can improve on these times with experience.The first run was time automatic and the second was manual.
Pretty close to Rob's stock time with a higher mph. I found it interesting that the automatic times were faster in the beginning and the manual times caught up in the end.
So for all you guys with the 96Q....we can run.
I think we impressed a lot of people with these old sedans with a combined mileage of 280,000 miles.
I was impressed with Rob's car, but the rear end noise is scary.
It took me a couple of runs to get my reaction times down, but once I settled in I think I got some respectable times and also answered some questions for myself about the performance of the 96Q and the OBD2 engine.
Here are my first and last runs.
!st Run..... R/T.. 1.153 last Run.... R/T... .673 60'... 2.511 60'.... 2.550 330.. 6.981 330... 7.011 1/8... 10.49 1/8... 10.46 mph.. 70.92 mph... 71.86 1000.. 13.47 1000... 13.40 1/4... 16.006 1/4.... 15.888 mph... 88.13 mph... 90.06
I believe I can improve on these times with experience.The first run was time automatic and the second was manual.
Pretty close to Rob's stock time with a higher mph. I found it interesting that the automatic times were faster in the beginning and the manual times caught up in the end.
So for all you guys with the 96Q....we can run.
I think we impressed a lot of people with these old sedans with a combined mileage of 280,000 miles.
I was impressed with Rob's car, but the rear end noise is scary.
Time slips are a definite rarity here on the board. I did a search and this is all I could come up with as I posted them above. There are several G-tech slips but I think you need to compare G-tech to G-tech slips due to all the variables that are entered into the G-tech in programing it.
I guess my times were not that bad considering Q45tech's older post I saw saying the 90Q45 with JWT ECU/TCU and a CAT back exhaust would do the 1/4 in 14.7-14.8 secs at 97-98mph....given I have a 95 model car....but I want better than this and I know I was close on the last run at getting almost 14.6XX.
I still don't understand why my trap speeds were so low 93mph. I guess when I get my OEM differential installed...off to the 1/4 track again next week Wednesday to see what my times are then.
We need to get more people on the tracks for some real world 1/4 ET's to see what we really can do on the tracks. I was really surpised to see a 90 5.0 Mustang (manual) stock with intake mod @ 150K only run 15.2 in the 1/4. I would have thought he would be in the 14's for certain.
I guess my times were not that bad considering Q45tech's older post I saw saying the 90Q45 with JWT ECU/TCU and a CAT back exhaust would do the 1/4 in 14.7-14.8 secs at 97-98mph....given I have a 95 model car....but I want better than this and I know I was close on the last run at getting almost 14.6XX.
I still don't understand why my trap speeds were so low 93mph. I guess when I get my OEM differential installed...off to the 1/4 track again next week Wednesday to see what my times are then.
We need to get more people on the tracks for some real world 1/4 ET's to see what we really can do on the tracks. I was really surpised to see a 90 5.0 Mustang (manual) stock with intake mod @ 150K only run 15.2 in the 1/4. I would have thought he would be in the 14's for certain.
That noise is made from two components rubbing. Rubbing two components that don't fit well together not only causes noise, which steals power. It could be 0.03hp or it could be 10+... getting the OEM diff back in WILL help your dyno numbers, but getting a legit 4.08 in will help your 1/4.
Those are some beautiful friggin headers. One side seams to be nearly exactly even while the other seams a little off. Still MUCH better than Ash's and I'm confident that's the best design possible IMO. Very good job though, they look farkin gorgeous!
Corey
Those are some beautiful friggin headers. One side seams to be nearly exactly even while the other seams a little off. Still MUCH better than Ash's and I'm confident that's the best design possible IMO. Very good job though, they look farkin gorgeous!
Corey
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
The 94-95-96 change in intake port shape [from dual roundish/oval to rounded rectangular with a center slot for injector flow...........seems to have smoothed out the twin peaks of torque at 5500 and 6,000 rpm [some old dyno runs of 90 Q] vs later dyno runs of 94]. I'm sure they were more interested in emissions than optimizing the above 6,000 rpm flow.
Interesting that the header design had the O2 sensor offset instead og after the collect.........farther back even with a spliced wire to lenthen might be better.
A REAL dyno run will show what is happening as the air flow stagnates [falls off] above the 6,000 rpm point.
As to temp conditions the higher barometer would be good for 0.005 but the 88F vs 60F would decrease density by 2.5% so a net of negative 2%...............6 HP..........0.06 secs 0.3 mph {?}.
What matters is the coolant temp temperature and if it was above 195F at any time during the runs.
You might try to putting a 1000 ohm resistor with a shorting switch in series with the ambient temp sensor in front of radiator to fool the HVAC and thus the ecu into thinking it is 30-40F colder.
The shorting switch would be closed to make the ac function normally.
Might get a degree or two of advance never tried it but in theory.
You must watch the ignition advance making sure you get 28 degrees at say 65000 rpm.
Seen many where they bump initial [at CAS] to 17 then the KS fires and retard it [5 degrees]...........with JWT in Summer and current gasoline sometimes 13-14 BTDC is better.
Find some racing gasoline Sunoco GT100 unleaded at Moroso, add it at 50% ratio - drive around a few minutes to mix it as the density will be different.............any positive differences will tell you the knock sensors are firing.
Interesting that the header design had the O2 sensor offset instead og after the collect.........farther back even with a spliced wire to lenthen might be better.
A REAL dyno run will show what is happening as the air flow stagnates [falls off] above the 6,000 rpm point.
As to temp conditions the higher barometer would be good for 0.005 but the 88F vs 60F would decrease density by 2.5% so a net of negative 2%...............6 HP..........0.06 secs 0.3 mph {?}.
What matters is the coolant temp temperature and if it was above 195F at any time during the runs.
You might try to putting a 1000 ohm resistor with a shorting switch in series with the ambient temp sensor in front of radiator to fool the HVAC and thus the ecu into thinking it is 30-40F colder.
The shorting switch would be closed to make the ac function normally.
Might get a degree or two of advance never tried it but in theory.
You must watch the ignition advance making sure you get 28 degrees at say 65000 rpm.
Seen many where they bump initial [at CAS] to 17 then the KS fires and retard it [5 degrees]...........with JWT in Summer and current gasoline sometimes 13-14 BTDC is better.
Find some racing gasoline Sunoco GT100 unleaded at Moroso, add it at 50% ratio - drive around a few minutes to mix it as the density will be different.............any positive differences will tell you the knock sensors are firing.
OEM diff gets installed tomorrow...I can't wait to get it back in so I can just hear the exhaust vs. the screaming jet engine.
I also was surprised at the position of the O2 sensors and thought that maybe they should be further down after the collector but so far so good as no check engine light or codes on my ECU.
The gas mileage so far seems good...about 100miles on 1/4 tank all freeway speeds....which is where I was at before.
There is really very little room for a true equal length tubing design. I saw the headers while it was up on a lift and can't believe how tight it is with very little room to wrap one pipe over another to get equal lengths. The really funky looking headers (funny bends) is the drivers side to fit around the steering column.
Dyno runs should be done tomorrow.
I also was surprised at the position of the O2 sensors and thought that maybe they should be further down after the collector but so far so good as no check engine light or codes on my ECU.
The gas mileage so far seems good...about 100miles on 1/4 tank all freeway speeds....which is where I was at before.
There is really very little room for a true equal length tubing design. I saw the headers while it was up on a lift and can't believe how tight it is with very little room to wrap one pipe over another to get equal lengths. The really funky looking headers (funny bends) is the drivers side to fit around the steering column.
Dyno runs should be done tomorrow.
I am a bit confused. You ran 5mph and a full second faster and your not happy? That is a huge gain!!!! You know how much extra power one has to make to gain 5mph and a second lower ET?
Oh, and using stop watches to time video's is about as accurate as counting in your head. Doing that will tell you nothing at all.
I think those are great times!
Oh, and using stop watches to time video's is about as accurate as counting in your head. Doing that will tell you nothing at all.
I think those are great times!
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HeavyDuty
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95 Nissan 240SX S14
96 Nissan D21
06 Nissan 350Z Z33
Uh-oh, Tech, good point. I bet you a dollar the egr was plugged.
For those who think the run wasn't that great....I'll restate Moroso is Hell on Earth this time of year. Well, not as bad as Phoenix, but hot hot hot & more humid than hu-mid.
I know Rob's a big guy, but I bet he didn't opt to push the behemoth all the way through the staging lanes (coolant temp heat soak)
And yet another good point from Tech, where *is* your base timing set?
For those who think the run wasn't that great....I'll restate Moroso is Hell on Earth this time of year. Well, not as bad as Phoenix, but hot hot hot & more humid than hu-mid.
I know Rob's a big guy, but I bet he didn't opt to push the behemoth all the way through the staging lanes (coolant temp heat soak)
And yet another good point from Tech, where *is* your base timing set?
base timing is set at 15 as per the dealer about 2 months ago.
I really have no idea what it takes to get an extra 1.0 secs in the the 1/4 mile or increase my speed by 5mph...but I am quickly learning that it is a lot of work for any real time improvements. I still want to break 14secs in the 1/4 but it is looking less hopeful unless the 4.08 really closes the gap.
I did not push the car through the lanes...just idling or had it turned off while they ran the pro-class group or cleaned the track. The last run I did a nice burn out to heat the tires up for better traction...and I know if I use the force I can get the car into the 14.6's which is the minimum I will accept. Traction however was really not an issue because I only get 1/2 to a full wheel spin anyway on a good day from a stop light. Now if I really had my 4.08 gear...traction should be a real bietch according to what everyone else is experiencing.
The car is at the shop right not getting the diff replaced...I will ask them to show me where the EGR thingy is at. I have no idea what an EGR is or does, but will have them show me. Can somebody post a pic or tell me in more detail what the EGR looks like (wire, hose connection, something like O2 sensor?) and if they did plug it up...how difficult is it for them to unplug it or whatever they need to do to get it working. Also what function does the EGR do for the car. Sorry for my ignorance, but I am still learning all this car stuff since joining NICO back in February.
I really have no idea what it takes to get an extra 1.0 secs in the the 1/4 mile or increase my speed by 5mph...but I am quickly learning that it is a lot of work for any real time improvements. I still want to break 14secs in the 1/4 but it is looking less hopeful unless the 4.08 really closes the gap.
I did not push the car through the lanes...just idling or had it turned off while they ran the pro-class group or cleaned the track. The last run I did a nice burn out to heat the tires up for better traction...and I know if I use the force I can get the car into the 14.6's which is the minimum I will accept. Traction however was really not an issue because I only get 1/2 to a full wheel spin anyway on a good day from a stop light. Now if I really had my 4.08 gear...traction should be a real bietch according to what everyone else is experiencing.
The car is at the shop right not getting the diff replaced...I will ask them to show me where the EGR thingy is at. I have no idea what an EGR is or does, but will have them show me. Can somebody post a pic or tell me in more detail what the EGR looks like (wire, hose connection, something like O2 sensor?) and if they did plug it up...how difficult is it for them to unplug it or whatever they need to do to get it working. Also what function does the EGR do for the car. Sorry for my ignorance, but I am still learning all this car stuff since joining NICO back in February.
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elwesso
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2007 Infiniti G35 S 6MT - Location: Indiana
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Its the gold roundish thing, just to the right of wehre the TB attaches... Youll see the metal tube going out of the valve, over the back of the valve cover...
The EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) is an emission control device, and in a nutshell what it does is recirculates exhaust gases into the intake, and it reduces the combustion temps and therefore reduces NOx...
Right now, I am running with no EGR (my EGR-C solenoid valve is bad) and I get a check engine light after long cruising at 60mph..... Ill replace it eventually but its not on my short list, $60 for a stupid little valve.....
okay...now I know what the EGR does
How important is it for me to have this to reduce NOS emissions if I don't have any CAT's????
How much does it increase the combustion temps....to a dangerous level? I am thinking that higher combustion temps actually create more HP?
Does this affect the AF ratio or anything else from running with a plugged EGR?
I don't have any check engine lights yet....knock on wood.
How important is it for me to have this to reduce NOS emissions if I don't have any CAT's????
How much does it increase the combustion temps....to a dangerous level? I am thinking that higher combustion temps actually create more HP?
Does this affect the AF ratio or anything else from running with a plugged EGR?
I don't have any check engine lights yet....knock on wood.
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elwesso
- Posts: 30810
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IT doesnt increase combustion temps, it REDUCES them.... Its only active during a steady cruise so no real HP gains... Might help prevent against detonation though......
Wont affect AF ratio because its inactive during acceleration...
NO CEL, thats good, but if the EGR isnt hooked up you will (or probably will) eventually.....
If you dont have it hooked up and dont care, you can sell me your EGR-C solenoid!!
Wont affect AF ratio because its inactive during acceleration...
NO CEL, thats good, but if the EGR isnt hooked up you will (or probably will) eventually.....
If you dont have it hooked up and dont care, you can sell me your EGR-C solenoid!!
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Q45tech
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1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
Only works at cruise rpms not during idle or acceleration, when the ecu programs 14.7 AF and lots of ignition advance cause combustion temps to skyrocket to >2372F.
The 1st emission control in use long before cats were ever added to a vehicle.
Can't believe they left off a bung for this, prima facia evidence of FELONY Emission Tampering in all states.Legally and morally worse than removing cats because of the Nox creation on highway........enough preaching.
Doesn't effect acceleration one way or the other {?}........lack of egr dilutive gases sure can cause tip in acceleration knock before the ecu gets the timing retarded from cruise efficiency.
Think of hot egr gases as oxygen poor just Nitrogen [and CO2] which dilutes the incoming charge of air......reduces the volume of oxygen by 2% [from 22>20%].
Should set a MIL code/light when the ecu tests for warm up and the egr temp sensor doesn't change when solenoid is commanded to open..........what this might do to acceleration in emissiom failure is unknown?
"The reason EGR improves fuel economy is because it reduces the engine's pumping losses. For the cylinder to move down on the intake stroke, the piston is working against the intake manifold vacuum. Another way to say it is that the vacuum above the piston tries to prevent the piston from going down. EGR increases the mass in the intake; more mass means higher pressure, or less vacuum. Now the piston has less resistance during each intake stroke, which results in better gas mileage."
The 1st emission control in use long before cats were ever added to a vehicle.
Can't believe they left off a bung for this, prima facia evidence of FELONY Emission Tampering in all states.Legally and morally worse than removing cats because of the Nox creation on highway........enough preaching.
Doesn't effect acceleration one way or the other {?}........lack of egr dilutive gases sure can cause tip in acceleration knock before the ecu gets the timing retarded from cruise efficiency.
Think of hot egr gases as oxygen poor just Nitrogen [and CO2] which dilutes the incoming charge of air......reduces the volume of oxygen by 2% [from 22>20%].
Should set a MIL code/light when the ecu tests for warm up and the egr temp sensor doesn't change when solenoid is commanded to open..........what this might do to acceleration in emissiom failure is unknown?
"The reason EGR improves fuel economy is because it reduces the engine's pumping losses. For the cylinder to move down on the intake stroke, the piston is working against the intake manifold vacuum. Another way to say it is that the vacuum above the piston tries to prevent the piston from going down. EGR increases the mass in the intake; more mass means higher pressure, or less vacuum. Now the piston has less resistance during each intake stroke, which results in better gas mileage."
I don't have any CAT's right now and I know it is bad for the environment, but the car within the next year will become a 2nd car and therefore be moved to a rainy day driver or just when I need to haul more than one person or if I lease the next car to watch the miles on my lease as my next car will be a convertible and the rear seats will be useless. So the car will not be driven all that too much, but still there is no good excuse to eliminate CAT's overall. I am a bad boy in need of maximum velocity right now. 