Has anyone tired any kind of alternitive fuel in the Q?

[1990QOwner]

What are you sources for the pulsating waves of DC electricity? I would like to read more about this.

[gammer_ghn]

ok that makes 300% more hydrogen and if you have a vacuum thinking a pump that’s constantly taking hydrogen makes the vacuum that give you 200-400% more as said or theorized so ya bro tomm im heading down to get some more stuff and start ill keep you updated ill make a few when its "up and running" ill give you one for free so i can get more people to believe in it and why not make some TAX free fuel = ]

[1990QOwner]

Sounds like you are on the right track. I am going to be getting started on mine today and see how it works. I will also be talking to my ol Grandpa, he once had plans to build a car to run off of water only and than was advised not to so he never followed through on it. I think he will be of great help.

[1990QOwner]

Check this system out:



The piece of pipe is just PVC pipe. You could make it on a larger scale and I'll bet it would work better than the canning jar system.

Edit- Here is another one I ran into:



Modified by 1990QOwner at 11:23 AM 11/19/2007
Modified by 1990QOwner at 11:24 AM 11/19/2007

[cccpman]

oh yea we are suppressing something that can change the world for the better, it makes real sense when you break it down - after all we are all cold hearted killers out to make a buck. *maybe* Germany realized it had lost the war and could no longer keep the efforts up so the plants and plans along with inventors were destroyed to protect secrets from an enemy? It happened across the board, the ones they attempted to destroy but failed to do so, did things like take us to the moon

Germany had some astounding inventions in the 30-40's, everything from using things like ethanol to power jets that were a decade ahead of the enemy's technology(yea oops, the govt must have leaked that one because we now also have the ethanol alternative) to burning wood to power a car and it all seemed to work

We use gas for a reason, its plentiful (yes, it is, we can grab facts if you want), relatively inexpensive (how much is your beer in your hand, or that bottle of water?), and outperforms most other combustibles. The world had its chance to pick electric and decided not to, and for some great reasons

Electric cars that you plug in - where does the electricity come from? I promise you its not a nice big green field, and if it was the price would be many times more expensive then gas

Hydrogen cars - too bad everybody falls for all the crap they hear. Sure Hydrogen cars are great, the downside is that in creating a cell for efficient separation (and by efficient I mean better then a couple percent) it takes in most cases, some crazy things like Platinum, Rhodium, and Palladium (not to mention a good deal of energy) to act as catalysts. Furthermore they love to use things like battery's - one of the most harmful byproducts to our environment is spent batteries being chucked. The damage done to get you your cell is so many times greater then driving a modestly efficient gasoline engine. Hell to top it all off, it still takes energy to run, I might buy one if I had money burning a hole in my pocket and if it produced its own energy for its lifetime... but they dont

Ethanol, somebody tell these gentlemen how much energy it costs to plant harvest, transport, refine, grow, etc etc the corn that gets turned into our ethanol. There is a reason the government has to PAY a company to do it, and then allow them to SELL the product the government just helped pay for. Sure there are some promising plants that might allow somebody to break even, some advances in genetics that might allow an efficient plant but thats all many years away. It took us millions of years to get to where we are, same with the corn, man wont change it for the better overnight

How about that permanent magnet motor. PLEASE do build us one, even a really tiny one, see if it works or not. Too bad so many people forget their high school physics and chemistry classes so readily. Unless you somehow manage to invent something that will block a magnetic field. Maxwell's Equations is a great place to start, I dont know maybe somebody on youtube posted a video on that and you will actually believe it. Ampere's Law is another great start. Sorry no magnetic monopoles for you!

On the other handSomebody says 'oh yea don't drive around with hydrogen in your car', excuse me but gas does the same thing. If you would have been around a ways back you would have found most cars were electric, and when we switched to gas all you heard was propaganda about how everyone will explode and die.

Anyways, time to run. Just remember there is a reason for everything

[elwesso]

The question that I think you're forgetting with this (seemingly useless IMO) system is how to effectively gather and contain said hydrogen.

IMO after you spent all that time to rig it up on a Q you could probably buy enough gas for a couple years.

IMO doing anything with IC engines is stupid, since they are only at best like 30% efficient.. Way too much of the energy generated is wasted..

Ive spent some time researching Nikola Tesla, and apparently he made a car that ran only on magnetic power..

[Haitian_King]

I asked about water injection on the previous page. Didn't get a response.

I see that it's been used in turbo charged and supercharged cars. From what I've read, it's purpose is emulated by an intercooler.

But aren't intercoolers only for turbo cars? Water injection isn't an option for a VH45DE?

[1990QOwner]

The question that I think you're forgetting with this (seemingly useless IMO) system is how to effectively gather and contain said hydrogen.

IMO after you spent all that time to rig it up on a Q you could probably buy enough gas for a couple years.

OK, first off we are not burning Pure Hydrogen, we are burning "Brown's Gas" which is a mix of Hydrogen and Oxygen. This "Brown's Gas" is highly flammable and CANNOT be compressed or stored. So you produce it "On Demand".

This system that I am talking about will cost less than $20 to produce and I can get all the parts I need from the local Hardware store.

It only takes 12 volts and less than 14 amps which you alternator can easily keep up with. The more you can produce than the more your engine uses instead of gas.

[PoorManQ45]

So true so true! I use premium, but I filled up with 87 (one tank) on my way to Alabama last week just to see how my car would ride and there was NO DIFFERENCE in the way my car ran. My car didn't stumble, turn off, or any of the other things I've read on these post.

The Qship is designed not to stumble. The computer will automatically retard the timing if knocking is detected. This will result in a power loss, but if you're not paying attention you won't notice it. You may note that in colder weather a slightly lower octane is acceptable as the ambient air temperature enter the temperature is lower. Therefore keeping the combustion chamber a little cooler.

[qship96]

I filled up today with 1/2 sunoco 93 octane and the other 1/2 sunoco 100 octane race fuel-mixed 50/50 this nets a 96.5 octane blend in the tank.Wow,with the new plugs,oxygen sensors,knock sensors,pcv,and fuel and air filters and plenum cleaning,this old q flys!

[Haitian_King]

Where the damn hell are you getting 100 octane? Lucky.

I haven't seen anything higher than 92 at Wawa and I think I saw 95 at the Sunoco. My Sunoco is a BG shop (Thank God.)

I'm afraid to try the really good stuff, because I probably won't want to go back to 92 if there's a big difference. And I fill up every week. Last Sunday, it cost me $52 to fill up with 92. Not a big deal, but not something I want to turn into a habit.

[Jager]

el, while i dont have an HHo generator, the way HHo works in the welding industry using water and electrolysis made alot of stuff possible to join. HHO can explode diamonds and tungsten as well. its a very cool gas with really weird properties. it can heat metals and melt them, but metals with a higher resistance to heat actually do better being welded with HHO.

the argument in cars is that HHo which is highly unstable will partially form water as it goes into the chamber. and under combustion will burn but the water vapor part will cool the cylinder allowing for a leaner fuel mixture.

(water/methanol injection style cooling for q1990) it also replaces part of the fuel needed. HOWEVER, this becomes pointless on a fuel injected computer controlled car unless you tamper with the oxygen sensor or sensors on the exhaust. the HHO lowers the NOX production and burns cleaner and the O2 sensor will force the ecu to dump more fuel in what it reads as a dangerously lean condition. that defeats the whole point.

there are computer chips and circuits that modulate the o2 readings to the ecu preventing it from dumping extra gas.

its a feasible idea in theory, and its a proven science with the HHO to what it does, but the amount of work on a Q potentially to get it to work may be higher then expected. its certainly not as simple as setting up the reactor.

[qsiguy]

Well, I've already posted the link to eagle research above but here is a more specific link to one of their products that is proven to be much more efficient than many of the basic "electrolyzers" you'll find plans for on the web. There are several types of setups, the most common simple method is a parallel plate design which works. I've make several of this type and they work, just quite inefficiently. The best type I've found is the series plate design. It produces much more gas with the same amperage applied. Still not nearly enough to run a car on entirely but can make significant improvements. Eagle research sells a kit or you can just buy plans. I have the plans and they are quite good.

http://www.eagle-research.com/...id=45

Like I said, I've made units, tested them, installed in cars, etc. The parallel design is way too inefficient to do much good. The best of the parallel designs can't compete with the series design. As Tech and others have stated, nearly all modern vehicles can't be fooled into using less gas even if you inject hydrogen, browns gas, propane, etc. into the engine with the fuel. In many cases without altering the sensors or ECU programming, you can actually get less mileage. The reason for this is because many of these gases, especially browns gas, will increase the O2 content of the exhaust which will cause your ECU to add fuel to return it to stoich. You can alter the ECU programming but a much simpler method is to modify the O2 sensor signal the ECU sees. There is a simple circuit to do this which Eagle Research happens to offer as well as a complete unit or just plans to make your own. The tricky part trying this on a Q is that we have 2 O2 sensors you will need to modify. It's not impossible, just a little more tricky.

My theories on this subject:

1) Do the big companies have the technology to significantly improve mileage and are they hiding this technology? Maybe. We all know there are vehicles in Europe getting 2-3+ times the mileage our vehicles are getting. One reason tho that we don't have them is the EPA restrictions on fuel types and emissions components. It's hard to believe tho, that someone wouldn't have leaked some reliable info by now.

2) Do I think we will find more efficient methods of producing hydrogen gas? Yes. Anyone who doesn't believe it's possible is an idiot. Look at all of the techology we have today and what we had 10-20-30+ years ago. There will be incredible advancements in technology every year, someone will figure it out and it could be any Joe blow in his garage experimenting. Everyone who is so quick to say it's impossible should climb into a hole and hide so they stay out of the way of the people who will change the world. Of course, it's the naysayers that often motivate the "do'ers".

3) Do I believe the "men in black" stories about people getting shut down when they make a discovery? I'm on the fence on this one. I wouldn't put it past the government to do stuff like that but I also believe that as fast as information can be shared through the internet that it would be extremely difficult to hide this type of information if someone really did figure something out that was duplicatable.

If you can't tell I love this stuff and could ramble on for hours...lol

[qship96]

For locations of Sonoco stations that sell the race gas,go to Sunoco`s website-2 in the Baltimore area! 100 octane fuel was $6.89/gallon today-$75.00 got me just shy of 11 gallons!

[qsiguy]

I put 1/2 tank of Sunoco 100 unleaded a couple weeks ago...was $5.99 gallon.

[cccpman]

Oh yea, and then you can put PULSE plugs in the Q. Yea those people claim 20-70%+ increase in MPG. In reality it would be nice to break even with the old plugs

If you must insist on this, dont destroy a Q. Buy yourself a nice little plastic ricer to toy with, thats a nice light car and your minimal outputs might be slightly noticeable on them

[1990QOwner]

Some say that by adding Xylene (A chemical found in the paint department at your local hardware store) you will greatly increase the Brown's gas that you get from your electrolysis process. I have yet to try this. I have just went and purchased everything that I will need to build my system and it cost me just over $25.

[qsiguy]

Yes, I failed to mention that I do NOT use my Q for my experiments. I have a $700 Toyota Pickup I use for that. If/when I find/make something that is refined and perfected I might consider using on the Q. I don't have the Q for it's economy, lol.

Few more additions:

1) I don't know about the Xylene, never heard of that in an electrolyzer.

2) It was mentioned above to control the electrolyzer with a DC motor controller because of the pulsed DC voltage. I, and several others I have discussed this with, have tried them and it does not increase the output. They can be useful as a controller because it allows you to maintain your amperage draw but that's it. I'm not saying that there isn't a magic frequency that will produce large quantities of gas but a typical pulse width modulator, which they are called, isn't it.

2a) You will find that as your electrolyzer heats up your amperage will continue to rise until you boil the water and possibly start melting parts/wires. There are many ways to control amperage but if you don't employ any of them you will get amperage runaway. For example, at ambient temperature you add the proper amount of electrolyte to get 14 amps. The water will begin to heat up and can and will increase exponentially within a short period. You could be over 200* F in less than 15-30 min. unless you have a large volume of water. I've posted lengthy details of my experiments on other forums and don't want to write it all down again. I have some good data on my parallel design on a spreadsheet I'll look up and post if you want to see it.

3) If you are making the type that uses all thread or a bunch of positive and negatively charged plates for electrodes you are making the parallel design. It will work but is far from efficient. Good for experimentation and research but I wouldn't bother installing it in your car. New years and 4th of July can be fun when you get one working! Fill up some zip lock baggies with your HHO gas and light with a long stick, superfun! I also like launching empty water bottles out of my hand. They will fly about 20-30 feet.

[1990QOwner]

This is my basic design:

http://waterpoweredcar.com/images/hydrobooster.pdf

I think it will produce enough to run a small generator or something similar.

[gammer_ghn]

So PWM doesn’t help much = / well someone mentioned Nikola Tesla to be honest his **** was shut down if you guys get into it if you have time watch these videos.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pTiiblwwLPkh ... ExTqblIH_8

Well we got the greatest brains of the Q45 world and other worlds too so can we come up with solutions instead of saying the things that are not possible? Lets start Combining technology to reach optimum efficiency. Damn Honda came up with a production Hydrogen car lets have some of that technology in our sexy *** Q45s so lets give it a break lets put it together and jack some of the technology and whip up a working Hydrogen booster for all of us to enjoy so please lets do this in the name of Nico come AZHITMAN where are you when i need u damn it Greg lets put up some rebel Armenian power into this! haha well we need all the help we got with people interested enough to make it work just today this post blew up check it out your selves so ya now its a curse lets do this!!!

Oh and this is the Honda car http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/
Modified by gammer_ghn at 9:57 PM 11/19/2007

[Haitian_King]

BMW has a hydrogen powered 745 or 760. They gave it to Brad Pitt to test.

[gammer_ghn]

Q45s are still sexyer than that "my opinion" and brad pit probably has a driver for it so who gives a crap about him testing it give it to Q45TECH he will trouble shoot and perfect the car that has had millions put in to create but hydrogen is on the rize we shall learn to at least understand it today when i was buying material for my hydrogen rig the workers kept on asking me what i needed it for they thought i was making a pipe bomb = / lol fools

[PoorManQ45]

For those that are using race gas in their Q45s. Watch out. Some of the variations are oxiginated. The MAF cannot compensate for this increased oxygen content, only the O2 sensor can. This may cause a leaning out of the engine, and possibly detonation

[1990QOwner]

It is easy enough to get Hydrogen Boosters on your car. There are thousands of people who do it. Is what we want to accomplish is to make this stuff off of water so that we don't have to pay Joe Blow to fill our Hydrogen tanks every day.

I could be wrong but I think you have to have a permit to carry any kind of compressed Hydrogen. Thus we are back to square 1 with the "Hydrogen on Demand". I think that this is the best way that we are going to succeed in this. We need to come up with a system that produces enough of this stuff through the electrolysis method to power a car entirely. It is possible, you just have to figure out how to coordinate it properly.

I guess the first step would be to figure out how to produce large amounts of this Brown's gas using little electricity. There are different ways people say you can do this but I have never seen any myself. One idea was the pulsating waves of electricity. We could also try a few different metals to see if one kind is more efficient than the rest. I mean once you build your basic system than you can start experimenting.

These are just ideas I am throwing out. Lets have your input.

[qsiguy]

This is my basic design:

http://waterpoweredcar.com/images/hydrobooster.pdf

I think it will produce enough to run a small generator or something similar.

Like I keep saying, I believe this technology will get refined someday, but....

This is a nice design but I truly doubt it will run even a very small IC engine. I think you will get approximately 500-700 mL of HHO per minute with that maximum and that's not enough to run a motor. You might, and I stress might, be able to idle a very small generator or lawnmower motor on that but it wouldn't handle any useful load. There are dozens, even hundreds, of plans around the web similar to that. I have copies of many of them.

Shoot me an email (it's in my profile) and I will send you some more detail on some of the plans I have. A few are not free for all plans and I respect the company that I got them from so I will not post them for the general public but if you contact me direct I'll share some info. I don't mean to discourage you, on the contrary. I think you should definitely build that one as it will help you learn about this stuff and it will work enough to do some testing and experimentation.

The plans you have is a parallel plate design. The series plate design I keep talking about will work much better but is also quite a bit more difficult to build. I'll try to explain the difference in the two designs.

A parallel plate, like the plans you showed, have either + or - applied directly to each plate. With the stacked plates yours has the only benefit is more surface area, which is certainly a good thing. The trouble is that your entire cell only drops about 1.5-2 volts so you are wasting 10-11 volts in the form of extra heat. Since each plate has the + or - applied to it, even if you had 100 plates you'd still be wasting energy.

In a series design you have a plate on either end, one + the other -. In between these two end plates you have multiple isolated plates that are only connected to the two end plates through the electrolyte between them. The current will pass from the end plates through the electrolyte through each plate until it reaches the other end electrode. Each plate will drop the 1.5-2 volts it requires at whatever amperage you set it up at based on your power supply and the electrolyte concentration. The number of center "neutral" plates is determined by the voltage you are applying. For example, in a car when running you'll have about 14 volts. For this application you would have the two end plates and 6 neutral plates in between them. Since each "cell" drops about 2 volts you will use 14 volts much more efficiently. Another benefit is that each of the neutral plates will emit hydrogen and oxygen gases. The important thing with the series design is to make sure each "cell" is isolated so the current cannot simply go around the neutral plate through the electrolyte to the other end plate. The current must be forced to pass through each of the cells in your system so work properly.

If this didn't make sense I can make a diagram of it and post it. The other big issue I mentioned earlier is controlling the amperage. With that design you've got the amperage will definitely run away on you as it heats up without some way of keeping it under control. The PWM will work but requires constant monitoring and adjustment. You can also wire the electrolyzer in series with a known load like your headlights. If your headlights draw about 12-15 amps that is the amount of current that will pass through the elelctrolyzer no mater how hot it gets, even if the cell were to get a direct short. The drawback to this method is that you have to leave your headlights on all the time and your headlights will be a little dimmer since the electrolyzer will drop the voltage by about 2 volts. There are circuits you can built that monitor the current and adjust automatically, basically an automatic PWM. You'll need to be pretty decent with electronics to build one. You can even open up your alternator and tap directly into the winding and extract over 100 volts from your alternator. This voltage will change with RPM which can actually be good for a hydrogen on demand system since you want more at higher RPM. You need the proper power supply circuit to use this power tho. You'd also use more neutral plates in your cell if you up the voltage. Basically 1 for each 2 volts you apply. The two end plates count as 1 by the way.

There I go again, rambling on....

[Haitian_King]

If only Mr. Wizard was alive. He'd have us using hydrogen in no time.

But it seems as if qsiguy might be a suitable replacement. I appreciate your post. Made for some interesting reading. I'd love to see what you can come up with.

[1990QOwner]

Ok, I sent you an email. We are going to figure this out sooner or later.

If only Mr. Wizard was alive. He'd have us using hydrogen in no time.

But it seems as if qsiguy might be a suitable replacement. I appreciate your post. Made for some interesting reading. I'd love to see what you can come up with.

There are cars that run off of Hydrogen only. But it is very dangerous because it is in compressed tanks. We are talking about Brown's gas which is Hydrogen and Oxygen mixed.

[gammer_ghn]

Soo here we go again well you can’t run you car off of hydrogen with our basic research and available technology and methods that’s that.

making your car more powerful so you don’t have do press the gas to go faster is more feasible "in my opinion" i bought the stuff I needed yesterday so when i put it together well see what blows up well and how much I can produce. = ] and Qsguy you the man your like the mad scientist of the Q45 world ha-ha!!! And I did do that it made a bit of difference in a 3 plate cell and having heat in water will help separate the Hydrogen and Oxygen so maybe it’s not such a bad idea... so now that we came to some peace lets make it happen!!! cuz im down like a clown Charley Brown!

[qsiguy]

..... and Qsiguy you the man your like the mad scientist of the Q45 world ha-ha!!!....

Yes, well....I have been banned from the kitchen from my wife for any further "combustion" testing. for some reason she didn't appreciate the explosion as much as I did.

Heres the cell for the unit I was testing at the time. It can make a decent volume of gas but too inefficient for a car. I'll upload my test data for it when I get a chance. This one fits inside of a PVC pipe.

[1990QOwner]

NOw that looks like a sweet design I actually thought of using some sort of wire mesh or even steel wool. I'll have to put my basic design together and start doing some testing.