Has anyone tired any kind of alternitive fuel in the Q?

[gammer_ghn]

hey come on now didnt you know the backyard is where you blow up things away from females that get scared of explosions i like the look of your rig but See i used stainless steel too but it all turns into rust did yours rust too within 10 mins or the plates im getting are fake *** stainless steel?

[qsiguy]

They will discolor no matter what you use. 316 Stainless is best and most you'll probably find if you just ask for stainless at a hardware store you'll probably get 304 or lesser grade. See if a magnet will stick to it. If it's good stainless it won't stick. Also, make sure you clean your electrodes good before using. The oils and junk on them will cause it to get nasty.

My explosion story...

I had just started attempting this stuff and I'd made the mesh electrode assembly you see there. I was doing some experiments (see link at the bottom for a pdf of the results) and really wanted to make the gas burn because I wasn't entirely convinced that the bubbles would really burn, I mean come on it's just water! lol. Anyway I had been collecting data for a while. I have the cell next to the sink, my bench 30 amp power supply sitting there, multimeter, etc. The things bubbling away so I get out the BBQ lighter and light it and place it above the water in my test container. It's not sealed so I think if it even lights it'll just make a little poof like propane or something like that with a little flame. I had the flame sitting there for what seemed like quite a while and nothing. Hmm. I keep it there and I guess the mixture finally was right and BANG!. No pleasant flame, just an instant explosion. Scared the crap out of me and my wife about fell out of the chair in the other room. Kids were upstairs and came to find out if we were still alive. lol. I was using sodium hydroxide at the time which is basically Lye or Draino. It made a bit of a mess of the kitchen. Hence, no more kitchen or in-house testing. I also switch to baking soda for basic tests.... Sodium Hydroxide is better if you're going for the best results but baking soda is much safer while you are playing around.

Here's that test data.http://c4caraudio.com/mpgs/dow...a.pdf

Oh, and here's a diagram I drew up to try and better explain the series cell I'm talking about.

[gammer_ghn]

soooooooo i blew up a trash bag today 20 liter took a while to fill like 15 mins but it wasn’t filled all the way omg best way to have fun and relieve some pressure out of your head i have a 9 foot trench in my back yard and i just threw the bag down the well and made a gasoline trace than lit it and watched it omfg nicest boom or pop noise i have ever heard im thinking of making a product called stress reliever in a trash bag just light it and step away than watch all your stress dissolve and turn into a psychotic smile haha now yall don’t call the bomb squad on me now haha

[qsiguy]

That is awesome, I haven't been brave enough to do something that big yet! lol It's been fun enough to just do small zip lock sandwich bags. On new years we did a half dozen of them, fun, fun. Very satisfying. This discussion make me want to get my unit back out and make a couple videos of the carnage. Video the zip lock bombs and launching the water bottles out of my hand. That's fun too.

[WeMallards]

Sounds like some good coverage on building a car to run off of water. That seems kinda dangerous to do that with a garbage bag. Maybe I will have to try it.

I have been following you guys for a while in researching this Hydrogen gas, do you think it is actually possible to run your car off of water alone?

[gammer_ghn]

HAPPY THANKS GIVING to you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

at the moment if you want to go with out a Hydrogen tank in the back I don’t think so because a Hydrogen rig that would make enough would be too big and heavy sooo don’t think so it will be too much money to make one which having gasoline is better = ] why do you think they make hydrogen hybrid cars because hybrid cars are new and are more marketable since they are newer and they can have us hooked to the Hydrogen pump and make us pay and tax the Hydrogen so this is our government just regulating ways to make us pay im sure you can make hydrogen so easily so much more efficient than we think we can so its just future and ten years is my mark from today. Just watchhh...

[qsiguy]

....do you think it is actually possible to run your car off of water alone?

Yes. Just not efficiently if you are using electrolysis. It requires way too much power for what you get out of it. This is why we all need to keep trying new things so we will some day find the magic formula.

I do know of a company, right down the street from my office, called AllH2 that has a system that generates hydrogen, not browns gas, from submerging dissimilar metal plates in salt water and using the generated gas to fill a pressure tank to around 200-300 PSI. They can fill pressure tanks much higher if they run it through a compressor. They use that gas to run the engine entirely on hydrogen but only at idle. Every time you release the gas pedal it switches off the gasoline and opens the hydrogen solenoid. I've been to their business and seen it in action. I was amazed at how seemlessly the system switched back and forth. No stumble or anything. The metal plates in the salt water tank turn to mush in the bottom of the tank after about a week or so of making gas. They have a process of turning that mush back into solid plates and duplicating the process again. Their main business is large systems for factories and homes that want to replace their natural gas with hydrogen for heating and such. I considered marketing their vehicle system but it's a consumable so you have to keep buying the plates. Not really what I want to do.

[WeMallards]

Hi all, I hope you all had a good Thanksgiving like I did

I have been researching this a little further and am finding that lots of people have done it but about the time they start to market it and install it on peoples cars than they get poisoned or have a heart attack or even get killed in a car accident.

So I would not recommend trying to market any kind of system once we figure this out.

I am going to be doing some experimenting myself. Some say that if you get just the right frequency of electric pulse than it will release tons of HHO (Brown's gas) enough to easily run a car efficiently, however they guy who did this is now underground and nobody knows how he did it, but I think we are getting closer.

I have read that if you do this electrolysis process than the water gets hot and all steams away, and once the water heats up than the system starts drawing more amps; has anyone tried any kind of amp regulator or anything like that to prevent this from happening?

Keep the ideas flowing and lets keep on trying different things to make this work.

[maxnix]

I asked about water injection on the previous page. Didn't get a response.

That's because water doesn't burn so it doesn't produce energy, but rather displaces the fuel air mixture so it lessens power.

It is used only by shade tree boosters that don't have the knowledge or facilities to properly engineer the fuel air intake system.

Notice that no factory turbo engines use water injection. Ever wonder why?

As to the energy required to break the hydrogen oxygen bond and the power derived from combusting hydrogen, most posters have no clue as to the facts. It is all about physics, something that is woefully in short supply in most of these posts.

[Haitian_King]

The literature I've read stated that the water wasn't for burning. Instead it was used to cool the combustion chamber and change the density so that more power was produced. This method was used to create an instant 200HP IIRC and was used to help planes get airborne.

Speaking of an advanced and intimate knowledge of physics, are you well versed in it Brian? Doctorate? Savant?

[qsiguy]

I have been researching this a little further and am finding that lots of people have done it but about the time they start to market it and install it on peoples cars than they get poisoned or have a heart attack or even get killed in a car accident...

Heard those stories as well, not sure I believe all of them but it makes you wonder. Like I said in an earlier post tho, at the speed in which information travels around the world in the age of the internet it seems that it would be next to impossible to stop the secret from getting out.

......Some say that if you get just the right frequency of electric pulse than it will release tons of HHO (Brown's gas) enough to easily run a car efficiently, however they guy who did this is now underground and nobody knows how he did it, but I think we are getting closer.

Heard this as well. Some claim to have found it but if they did we'd be using it now I think. Even the people who claim to have figured it out that haven't yet been poisoned can't seem to prove it in front of witnesses. I remain skeptical about pretty much all of those claims. It's too easy to say that the "men in black" shut me down so I can't change the world...

.....has anyone tried any kind of amp regulator or anything like that to prevent this from happening?

Yes, further up on the page I discussed a few methods. I experienced the boiling water issue in my experiments.

As to the energy required to break the hydrogen oxygen bond and the power derived from combusting hydrogen, most posters have no clue as to the facts. It is all about physics, something that is woefully in short supply in most of these posts.

Not sure who you are referring to by this. There is nothing wrong with doing some research when you read about something to find out for yourself. Better yet, to find people willing to actually try their own experiments even tho so many say it's not possible. Many great inventors made huge advancements in technology when everyone was saying they were nuts. There are things about physics that we still don't understand and the world is advancing at an ever increasing rate. To sit and try to convince people that it's a waste of time to try to "build a better mousetrap" is quite ignorant. Pretty much all of the information I have been posting is fact from my own experimentation and has been proven.

[bullittandy]

Speaking of an advanced and intimate knowledge of physics, are you well versed in it Brian? Doctorate? Savant?

That's pretty clever. Well done.

[Q45denver]

Put your money where your mouth is and drive for free:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW

[Haitian_King]

That's pretty clever. Well done.

Thank you.

And @ qsiguy - I'm sure people said you couldn't put a turbo on a Q. NOw who's faster? I appreciate your efforts and I hope you continue with your endeavors.

For a guy that's been on the board since 02 and with about 85 threads started since then, Brian hasn't contributed much. Nothing more than quoting Tech, plugging for Joe and Mobil, and telling people to read the FSM and search.

One thing I learned from searching are that his posts are generally worthless.

Put your money where your mouth is and drive for free:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW

Interesting. The car looks nice. But when it needs maintenance, who do I take it to? I can't take this Frankenstein to my local Mercedes-Benz Dealership, can I?

[Q45denver]

Just switch it to straight diesel and take to local MB tech. Nice thing about these is about the only thing electronic is the radio.

[Haitian_King]

Ah. Good to know.

Now if only they made an S500 like that. I'd be all over it.

[gammer_ghn]

Sooo did evearyone die on this one come on now i cant be the only one working for the world by testing the rig over and over again by blowing up things and making my self a nice heater in my room wake up people lets do this ya?

[qsiguy]

I'll get back to that project one of these days. Just no time at the moment. I've done a lot of experimenting with my current unit. I can't get too excited until I get going on my new unit as it will be much better. I have some 24"x24" stainless steel enclosures that I will be making the next one in. I'm planning a large series cell with multiple taps for various voltage inputs. That way I can run many different tests with varying voltages.

Anyway, way too many projects on my plate at the moment.

[gammer_ghn]

HAHA your off the hook dont worry... the guy with the rear turbo Q has enough on his plate we see that anywho hows the tuning coming along... your all good now or still working on it?

[AlabamaDan]

There's a guy in the Pathfinder Forum running a SUV that can run on 4 different types of fuel, gas, petrol, alcohol, and bio-diesel.

zerothread/295039

[qsiguy]

HAHA your off the hook dont worry... the guy with the rear turbo Q has enough on his plate we see that anywho hows the tuning coming along... your all good now or still working on it?

Still a long way from being done. I had to replace the intake tube from the MAF to the throttle body as the old one now has a 3" split blown in it. I made some progress this weekend so I'm almost back on the road. Even then I have a ton of things I still want/need to do.

[gammer_ghn]

Good luck with that!!!

[konman]

Hi.I am new here and i read all your thread.I am from Greece and here,the gasoline has almost 1,20 euros per littre.I am wondering,why you stoped posting here..What happent and you stopped the research?Did Gorge Bush killed you all after this project? Anyway,i wanted only to complete,that the water becomes brown because of the metal type of plates.If you use aluminum,the water will stay clearly and clarity.Keep going guys,i will try it also..

[RAP]

There's a guy in the Pathfinder Forum running a SUV that can run on 4 different types of fuel, gas, petrol, alcohol, and bio-diesel.

zerothread/295039

Don't think there is much there.

I have an old engine in my yard that was made by International Harvester and turns a generator. Starts on gas and then you switch it over to diesel. Gas make for easier starting and diesel for economy. However that doesn't hold true today since diesel is sold higher than gas.

I've seen many farm tractors run on propane. PITA.

The local natural gas company had some of their vehicles running on Natural gas. I don't recall if they were switchable, if one or the other ran out. PITA to find a natural gas fill-up station if they even exist. The natural gas does not have the OMPF that regular gasoline has.

Alcohol is a fuel and will burn in an engine however I don't know what needs to be done to the engine to do so but it can't be too complicated.

Petrol ? is what gasoline is called in some countries.

To top this I have burned in a car/pick-up what is commonly called "distillate" that is a by- productof natural gas wells. The distillate is "dropped" or separated from the gas through a distillation process. (Through all that strange looking piping found around oil/gas wells). Some of the distillate from some wells contained high levels of octane and burned readily without much pinging, while other wells had distillate that didn't preform the same. We used to mix some refined gasoline in the tank to smooth things out. The engines were low compression plus we didn't care.

Brazil is supposedly self sufficient in gasoline or ethanol "sugar cane gas".Don't know haw they're doing that because it's claimed that sugar cane ethanol is NOT economically viable presently here in the USA.

Finally there will be someday viable fuels that will supplement and eventually replace what is now used. The break through may well come from someone "basement/home workshop" experiments. IF it's YOU the REWARDS will come. However you can bet your sweet bippie that the major energy companies, "BIG OIL" are experimenting with alternate sources of fuel. When the economics are right there will be fuel for the people cars.

[gammer_ghn]

Yes Propane gas stations do exist here in LA, CA i have seen two and some taxi drivers have the Crown Vics converted to gas somehow. IRAN has propane gas stations and cars if USA doesn’t have too many of them shame on us for not using all resources available since all we care for is the capital gains. PS propane cars smell like KAKA lol

[S13dg3]

Sooo did evearyone die on this one come on now i cant be the only one working for the world by testing the rig over and over again by blowing up things and making my self a nice heater in my room wake up people lets do this ya?

Hi Gammer_Ghn,

Sorry to barge in on this thread. I'm not a Q45 owner, but am just at the start of my experiments on HHO gas additive for my I30 (yeah, in .au it was sold as a Maxima).

Still, I've been doing some research myself and watched lots of youtube experimenters videos. There's a similar discussion on an Aussie forum (excuse them, they're Ford fans) where a few of the guys were getting some pretty decent mileage gains from their rides. One guy did his experiment with his old Toyota Hilux pickup junker, others are farting around with EFI.

Here's the link to their thread on their forum, http://www.fordmods.com/forums....html

As usual, there are the naysayers, easy to ignore them. I'm of the feeling that it's better to try and fail than to fail to try at all.

If I'm welcome to join your chat here, I'll share my findings and test data.

Cheers,

El Sledgo

[Mahasamatman7]

That's because water doesn't burn so it doesn't produce energy, but rather displaces the fuel air mixture so it lessens power.

It is used only by shade tree boosters that don't have the knowledge or facilities to properly engineer the fuel air intake system.

Notice that no factory turbo engines use water injection. Ever wonder why?

As to the energy required to break the hydrogen oxygen bond and the power derived from combusting hydrogen, most posters have no clue as to the facts. It is all about physics, something that is woefully in short supply in most of these posts.

Maybe you should take a look at this Auminum V8 - 10.25:1 and 5 psig boost ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O...tfire

Owners just were not bright enough to understand that the complex self adjusting plumbing in the innovative turbo system the Olds engineers put together had to be maintained. I.E. if you do not fill the tank when exhausted, the wastegate stays open and no "Rocket". From ole timers recollections that description was true... The Methyl Alcohol was to prevent freezing and suspend an anti-rust concoction. I saw a long article out in the WWW somewhere a couple of years ago.

[danielekfuj]

I have been researching this topic, but came across what seems to be a flaw. It you are using the alternator output to power the electrolysis process, then the alternator resistance on the engine increases as the alternator needs to genetare more electricity, which will negatively affect gas mileage. If that is the case, you would need over 100% electrolysis efficiency to see an improvement in gas mileage. Realistically, you'd be lucky to get 40 or 50% efficiency. And it would be a massive fail. Amirite?

[Woot!]

^ Nope

It has been done and is being done. One of my uncles has been working on a system and has finally got it done. It is totally computerized but it was designed for semi trucks. He put one on one of his trucks and it increased his fuel mileage about 3 MPG. Before you start laughing keep in mind that a semi truck only gets 5-8 MPG while pulling a load. It is saving him $700 per month. These systems are selling for around 4K's but in 1 year you will have got your investment back. It costs about $900 to fuel a semi truck.

Just my .02.

[danielekfuj]

woot, have you put an electrolysis thingy yet into a car? any computer mods?