GT-R lovers reality check.

[Soravia]

My point is, The GT-R is the Ultimate Auto Engineering from Japan. That's what its made for. Not Drifting, not drag racing, not fastest land speed record, not the most exotic glittering car, not a gas saver, not a mini-van.It's about the 'AWESOME' factor for the money. No matter how powerful or how glittering a car is, if it can't be driven on all sorts of occations, it ain't 'AWESOME' at that point of time.With GT-R, you can go to work, you can buy grocery, you can pick up the kids, you can bring your friends to a party, you can take it to the track, you can drive in the rain storm, you can drive in snow. And while doing all that, you can smoke (nearly) all the cars on the road and any car on the planted in at least one of those conditions.

Personally, I prefer the clutch pedal as well. I fall asleep on highway without a clutch pedal. It would be nice if the GT-R has both.

[hsckris]

without a clutch pedal. It would be nice if the GT-R has both.

+1. In my opinion every vehicle should have a manual transmission option. At the very least, every vehicle with a sporting nature should have an available manual transmission.

[VNG704]

Yea, all the newer cars are coming "gizmo'd up." It's technology advancing...before it's time actually. Are you moving with the flow or stuck in the past. Even it's overall look is before it's time. It's not too much of an eye candy(for some) but it's technically beautiful. I wouldn't call it an exotic (and who cares) but definately a super car... that rapes exotics!

edit: reply to it being a playstation car: Have you driven it? Watch the youtube Top Gear GTR vid. and listen to what a person who's driven it has to say about it being a playstation car.

[Jesda]

Are you moving with the flow or stuck in the past.

The future has us moving around in automated tubes.

You have to balance technology for technology's sake with simple pleasure and aesthetics. You all can have your tubes. I'll have an old Miata.

Its NOT for me. I don't often buy gadgets just for the sake of saying I have the "latest and greatest", otherwise I'd be an iPhone-wielding h0m0.

[Soravia]

The future has us moving around in automated tubes.

You have to balance technology for technology's sake with simple pleasure and aesthetics. You all can have your tubes. I'll have an old Miata.

Its NOT for me. I don't often buy gadgets just for the sake of saying I have the "latest and greatest", otherwise I'd be an iPhone-wielding h0m0.

Everyone knows Miata are as gay as Honda Civic with a GT spoiler. You should have said FB or FC.

[Jesda]

Everyone knows Miata are as gay as Honda Civic with a GT spoiler. You should have said FB or FC.

You are a retard who should stop breathing.

[Soravia]

[redtop91]

The GT-R is NOT an "exotic"

It is not designed to be and anyone who is trying to make it one understands neither the definition of "exotic" nor what the GT-R is supposed to be.

The GT-R is designed to be, within certain price and livability constraints, the absolute fastest f**king way to get around a circuit.

Exotics are NOT designed for this purpose. They're designed partly for it, but they make all sorts of OTHER concessions to appearance, pedigree, sometimes luxury, et cetera.

RWD naturally-aspirated V12s with gated shifters are hella sexy, but THIS IS NO LONGER THE BEST WAY TO GO FAST.

The best way to go fast is now AWD, turbochargers, electronic driver aids, SMG's, and other "gizmos". This is evidenced by the fact that F1 and WRC uses most of this stuff, and anything they don't use is because regulation doesn't permit it (i.e. AWD in F1).

Thus, your priority is either:

1.) To go as fast as humanly possible around a circuit by any means possible in a vehicle that costs about $60k and is daily-drivable.

2.) Something else (such as):

-Have a vehicle that is the "most fun to drive"

-Have a vehicle with "soul"

-Have a vehicle with "class" or "pedigree"

Or whatever.

You're either in the "Answer 1" crowd or you're not. If you're not, that's fine, because I'm not either (I like carb'd cars with manual chokes, lol) , but I don't take it upon myself to critique those that are.

The entire development of Japanese performance vehicles over the last 20 years has led up to the current GT-R, it is the epitome of the design philosophy. It is the next logical extension of the same thought process that led to the R32/33/34, any LanEvo, et cetera.

Ultimately, the design philosophy is "ugly is okay, and sometimes the machine knows better than the driver does". You either agree with this or you don't, but if you don't, then it is illogical for you to like the cars I mention above. They have the EXACT SAME APPROACH, just with less evolved technology.

Took every word right out of my mouth and even put a few more in.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Everyone knows Miata are as gay as Honda Civic with a GT spoiler. You should have said FB or FC.

People who are embarrassed to drive miatas because they think they're "gay" or "girly" are not real car people.

[Soravia]

I wasn't exactly saying that. It was more of a dramatic expression to say that Miata is not 'Car' enough (in your own expression) compared to better cars like FB FC or S13,S14, etc. The thing darts around for sure, but they still looks as good as someone driving a 500HP Minivan.

[themadscientist]

Because joy and fun matter more than numbers, unless you're an F1 driver, which we all are not.

At some point, technical prowess begins to interfere with enjoyment, unless you're a gadget freak, in which case you have have Linux running on your iPhone and converted your old Altima to all-electric drive.

If you look at the GTR not as a car, but as an engineering project, its neat. If you, however, think of cars as a means of stirring emotion, and all-around being happy, then the GTR is less useful.

I'm not going to spend $80k on some dweeb's engineering project.

This man gets it.

It has little to do with numbers and everything to do with the felling of driving it, the symbiotic connection between a vehicle and the driver. Imagine sex with a machine. It could be built to get you off, stimulate you in more physical ways than a real person and go all night long. Hell you could design it so you just lay there while it works you over.

Efficient, yes.Bang for the buck, possibly.faster and more effective than real, yes.

Now offered this or a clumsy sweaty grope in the back of a car with the center console jabbing you in the back, windows all fogged up and a cramp torturing your hip as you try to do human orgami going for the win which would you choose?

That is what it is about. If I want a number, a cold lifeless spec sheet I will buy a GT-R



If I want a religious experience I would buy a GT-R.



Watch this vide and see if you see the difference between the guys in the R32, R33, and R34 versus the guy in the R35. The standings at the end are not what is important. Listen to the fun the guys in the real GT-Rs are having while Tsuchiya-san in back there doing madlibs and wondering if he left the iron on back at the house. http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=27NkTY8k5Co

[Soravia]

Current R35 was made for sale figures as much as awesome factor. It is a very civilian affair, like the RX-8 compared to FD. I'm thinking the Spec V will go all out and most people's 'Robot' opinion will change when it comes out.

Proof of evidence. Go to 4:17 in the video.http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=...lated

you can see the difference between suspension play of the GT-R and the Murcierago LP640. I wonder how good the GT-R would be if they both get same tire types and power at the crank. Spec V will probably get stiffer suspension since it will be losing the rear seats anyway.

[themadscientist]

It's like talking to a wall.

It's not about the ****ing numbers! It's about a car that has no soul.

[Oatmealman]

It's like talking to a wall.

It's not about the ****ing numbers! It's about a car that has no soul.

Exactly,Toyota's have no soul and no feel in a car,The gt-r is the same because the computers that are busy jacking you off and driving the car for you,that doesn't qualify as fun to me.I'd take my old g20 than a gt-r any day because the g20 had soul and was actually fun to drive in the mountains.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

1.) To go as fast as humanly possible around a circuit by any means possible in a vehicle that costs about $60k and is daily-drivable.

The two priorities you have listed are conflicting.

To go as fast as humanly possible around a circuit by any means possibleANDand is daily-drivable.

Can't have it. You'll be ruined by someone in a stripped-out MkII Jetta. Who then goes home to daily his used 7 series.

That's why I can't understand the "ZOMG paddle-shift SO FAST" in a street car. You're not on the Ring.

Price? Doesn't matter. Nobody who can only buy the $60k isn't going to wring it out to "go as fast as humanly possible around a circuit."

[Oatmealman]

That's why I can't understand the "ZOMG paddle-shift SO FAST" in a street car. You're not on the Ring.

Well when you're a gt-r fanboi you think everything is the ring,shifting and redline and taking corners at 60 trying to show off to the lady's in your automatic sports car,which is a sin amongst gods.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

...shifting and redline and taking corners at 60...

Sounds like a trip to Wal-Mart for me.

[Soravia]

How wide is the corner?

I think you also noticed peddle shifters in Ferrari and Lamborghini, why is the GT-R the only getting the smack? Because it rides more comfortable than the rest?

[HashiriyaS14]

THIS:



Is just the next logical extension of the same design philosophy that brought us THIS:



BOTH cars rely on traction control systems, electronic torque split, all-wheel-drive, advanced ABS, turbochargers, power-assist items, et cetera.

The only *real* difference is the sequential gearbox, and the only reason the R34 didn't have one is because it wasn't cost effective at the time it was produced.

You CANNOT rationally like one and dislike the other. You can CLAIM to, but it is irrational and f**king retarded.

If you said "I hate the new GT-R and love the Elise", or (like Jesda said) an NA6 Miata, or whatever, THAT would make some sense. The new GT-R and the R34 Z-tune are just too goddamned similar.

If you'd ever driven either one, it would lend a little more credence to these continued silly threads.

[Oatmealman]

Sounds like a trip to Wal-Mart for me.

I use to do it to,but with a redline of 14k It really doesn't work out and taking corners at 60mph in the city? hell no I watch my ***,to many women drivers in this world.

[Soravia]

My 90 degree short right turn on-ramp to 95 is usually about 40MPH in the Spec V and 45MPH in the S13.

[Pyrokid]

I have to agree with TMS on this, the the GT-R has no soul. If I had the $120,000 the dealers are asking, or much less the $80,000 MSRP, I'd want a car that has one hell of a ride, not a nanny telling me what to do. If I want someone bitching at me about how I'm driving, I'll go pick up my mom.
Modified by Pyrokid at 1:56 AM 8/17/2008

[Soravia]

Did you get to drive one?

This guy did all three before he did the new GT-R.R32 GT-Rhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hPa2KEB4Sg

R33 GT-Rhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uGl7hcfXgw

R34 GT-Rhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZh3bl-LJzE

R35 GT-R. Almost broke his neck.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlQNrwAQjBM

Personally, I believe the GT-R is one of the few cars on the planet (perhaps the only one) that deserves a sequential transmission. There is no need for a clutch pedal since the car will transfer torque to the most suitable wheel. So the driver has to decide how much overall power needs to be given and what kind of steering work should be done. If the car loses grip at all, it will happen on all 4 corners with an similar ratio. It won't be a FWD acting like AWD (Evo) or RWD acting like AWD (Impraza)


Modified by Soravia at 1:44 AM 8/17/2008

[alphapig]

Yeah, I certainly think I'll trust Clarkson before any Nico member on this topic...

[redtop91]

The two priorities you have listed are conflicting.

To go as fast as humanly possible around a circuit by any means possibleANDand is daily-drivable.

You misread what he wrote. Those standards are part of each other. Daily drivable and as fast as possible for a daily driver. That's why he listed them both under the number 1. It's the same as always people hate on things when they become popular because they think it makes them cool. Just like when wannabe's start hating bands under the guise of "selling out" just because they can't where obscure shirts that no one knows the meaning of.
Modified by redtop91 at 1:08 AM 8/17/2008

[skydragoness]

Thanks for wasting 3 minutes and 49 seconds of my life. That video was horrible and all it shows is that people with no personalities live vicariously through their cars. Notice how all that was shown in that video was getting stupid chicks phone numbers, getting into clubs, and a couple of burn outs. I seriously doubt Lamborghini had any affiliation with that video.

Oh man like those hopelessly LAME *** commercials that Acura has advertising their uglified TSX (the first fascia looked good) to the 'up and coming' yuppies and how this guy is dancing all dorky and some shots of a depressed woman and she never went home with him anyway. What the EFF? You fail Acura.

Quote »You're telling me Nissan hasn't poured tons of money, R&D and love into this car. Even if they hadn't, it still owns every supercar out there. Imagine the day they do pour some love into their GTR, I think it'll be owning the Space shuttle. I'm not a GTR fanboy, it looks like crap. Styled after Gundams? Gundams look like crappy Transformers, but credit has to be given to this machine even if you don't like it. It'll smoke almost anything out there at a 1/4 of the cost of anything out there. When you buy an expensive exotic car, you're paying for the name. It's like buying a Gibson guitar, just buy an Ibanez and you'll be happier.[/quote] Amen to that. I appreciate the GTR for throwing sand in the face of other snobs. It's amusing to me. I do not like the car for the same reasons TMS says though.. all the cold-gadgets and most importantly the lack of a clutch. I could care less how fast it is due to the lack of one but its about driving feel and joy. TMS is right that it's a geeky car, but at least its very competent.

[HashiriyaS14]

The two priorities you have listed are conflicting.

To go as fast as humanly possible around a circuit by any means possibleANDand is daily-drivable.

Can't have it. You'll be ruined by someone in a stripped-out MkII Jetta. Who then goes home to daily his used 7 series.

That's why I can't understand the "ZOMG paddle-shift SO FAST" in a street car. You're not on the Ring.

Price? Doesn't matter. Nobody who can only buy the $60k isn't going to wring it out to "go as fast as humanly possible around a circuit."

Logic can be tough for some people, so I'll break it down....

The design exercise of the new GT-R was to create a vehicle with four seats (i.e. must be front-engined), a ~$60k price tag (to undercut the 911), and a generally livable demeanor (i.e. airbags, sound deadening, nothing stripped out, so not a KTM X-Bow, etc) that, given all this, could then go as fast as possible around a circuit course. Things like "character" or "soul" weren't part of the design exercise, just like "4 doors" or "10 cupholders" wasn't either.

Concurrently, for the Lotus Elise (for a random example), the design exercise was to build something that, for about $40,000, could lap as fast as absolutely possible and yet meet the bare minimum guidelines for street legality and be drivable in all-weather (again, it needed a top and couldn't be open-wheel like the Atom, but otherwise, few constraints other than price).

ALL cars are the product of some design exercise or other. All cars are designed with "goals" in mind and the ONLY way one can thus evaluate cars is "did this vehicle succeed in the goal the designers had in mind?". Critiquing the design exercise itself as silly or misguided is fruitless as this is a purely subjective judgement. If people are purchasing the product, it is by definition NOT silly or misguided as there is, quite obviously, a demographic that demands it.

If someone says "I hate car x", they'd better have a goddamned good reason for saying it. When you say or do anything with any sort of conviction, you need to have a rational justification in doing so, especially if you're going to go to the trouble of making one or in this case MULTIPLE annoying threads about it on a car forum.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

You must be mentally adding the words "character" and "soul" to my post. I didn't talk about either of them in my post (though I generally agree that the GT-R is no Eye-Talian).

ALL cars are the product of some design exercise or other. All cars are designed with "goals" in mind and the ONLY way one can thus evaluate cars is "did this vehicle succeed in the goal the designers had in mind?". Critiquing the design exercise itself as silly or misguided is fruitless as this is a purely subjective judgement. If people are purchasing the product, it is by definition NOT silly or misguided as there is, quite obviously, a demographic that demands it.

Chevy Caviler. Succeeded perfectly in the goals the designer had in mind. It also sold well. You'll not find me driving one.

I'm normally an objective guy. Hard, judgeable goals are important. However, you remember that thread where JimmyMethod was insistent that a schooled movie critic's opinion was the only one that mattered? Similar theory.

Anyway, I could be wrong, but I don't think I've ever expressed a hatred for the GT-R. I don't see myself buying one, though (though I would take one over a G20. Seriously, ghetto? It's a G20.)

You misread what he wrote. Those standards are part of each other. Daily drivable and as fast as possible for a daily driver. That's why he listed them both under the number 1.

He didn't say "as fast as possible for a daily driver," he said "as fast as possible." While that might not has been his intention, that's how I read it.

[Soravia]

I saw the thing pass a Lambo LP640. I KNOW the thing is SERIOUSLY FAST.http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=rBKLPIM7_k0
Modified by Soravia at 10:42 PM 8/17/2008

[HashiriyaS14]

You must be mentally adding the words "character" and "soul" to my post. I didn't talk about either of them in my post (though I generally agree that the GT-R is no Eye-Talian).

I was addressing criticisms of the car from others in the same post.

Anyway, I could be wrong, but I don't think I've ever expressed a hatred for the GT-R.

Again, this was aimed at others, primarily TMS, as he started the thread (and, seemingly, about a dozen others)