GT-R lovers reality check.

[themadscientist]

WRONG!

It just won a comparision entitled the ultimate track test: http://www.roadandtrack.com/ar...=6939

It beat out the Viper, Aston Martin, Lotus, GT2, Z06, GTR, etc....

Pretty grueling competition. I especially like this quote from the willow springs test on the R

It's somewhat boring as it's so stable and confidence inspiring.

Yeah, Millen said it not me, "boring".

I was actually surprised the Viper did so well. Upon first glance I wouldn't expect it to much more that a missile.

[danielekfuj]

stop PMS'ing. its just a car.

[elwesso]

Personally, I dont think that Nissan is capable of making an exotic car... FURTHERMORE, I dont think NISSAN has ever made an exotic car.. The new GT-R is really no different than the previous models..

In my opinion, an exotic car is something that is so impractical, that is the charming part about driving it... Ferrari, Lambo, Maserati... You cant daily drive them, hell you cant even drive them wherever you want on paved roads for fear of bottoming out or something..

You cant put 10k miles a year on a Ferrari or Lambo.. You might be able to do it, but itll cost you a ton of money and you'll probably be miserable doing it.. Blind spots and worrying about screwing up your $300,000 car! You cant fit more than one suitcase in it, forget about putting in a set of golf clubs to go to the country club...

I dont want to hear any more of this crap that "the GT-R CANT BE MODIFIED!!!!" Thats what we said about G35s, and every new car on the market... They'll be ways to tweak a GT-R and we all know it.. Theres already a few things on the market, give it a few years and theyll be all kinds of stuff..

IN all fairness, how many people take their Ferrari to the track? I bet very few people do! They sit in the garage all the time because they are only practical to drive occasionally... They spend more time taking up real estate than they do moving, which is what they were meant to do!

As a person who likes to drive cars, i dont see why you would necessarily want a car that is brutal to drive?

While I hope to someday own an exotic car, its not the same as a supercar you can drive every day. Its a lot more fair to compare a GTR to a 911 turbo... The 911 is a car you could live with on a day to day basis (or close), as is the GT-R. A ferrari or lambo isnt, thats the distinction.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I dont want to hear any more of this crap that "the GT-R CANT BE MODIFIED!!!!" Thats what we said about G35s, and every new car on the market... They'll be ways to tweak a GT-R and we all know it.. Theres already a few things on the market, give it a few years and theyll be all kinds of stuff..

Exactly.I talked to the COBB guys about their GTR and EVERYTHING I've heard "on the internets" about the GTR's un-moddability is a crock. They're running different wheels (those magic sensors that the car supposedly won't run without are EXACTLY what I said when that was originally brought up: tire pressure monitoring sensors and NOTHING more). They've got a new ECU in it. They're tuning the aero, engine, and even suspension...The people claiming GTRs can't be modded are the same people who have never seen one outside their computer monitor.

You cant put 10k miles a year on a Ferrari or Lambo.. You might be able to do it, but itll cost you a ton of money and you'll probably be miserable doing it.. Blind spots and worrying about screwing up your $300,000 car! You cant fit more than one suitcase in it, forget about putting in a set of golf clubs to go to the country club...

Lambos, maybe. But aside from the mid-engine models, Ferraris and DEFINITELY Maseratis are absolutely daily drivable. Ferrari's front-engine cars even have real luggage space these days. And Maserati's flagship is a large sedan with a torque-converter automatic. You don't get any more DD-able than that. Heck, I can think of a couple different Maserati Qs I see driving around on a regular basis...they're clearly the owner's main car.

[Jesda]

Its a video game with an ugly cartridge case. That's all the GTR is to me.

Nissan should spend more time building light, cheap, and simple sports cars to compete with the Miata, S2000, and Solstice. 350Z is a pig.

[krimsonviper]

Its a video game with an ugly cartridge case. That's all the GTR is to me.

Nissan should spend more time building light, cheap, and simple sports cars to compete with the Miata, S2000, and Solstice. 350Z is a pig.

yeah but with the s chassi dead whats going to replace it? the smart ones on the forum dont want to accept as s-chassis replacement because they know it will be horribly ugly.

[f1seb]

You quote Millen about saying how boring the car is because it's so stable, well maybe he isn't driving it fast enough to really enjoy himself. I will quote somebody else now, he is not talking about the GT-R itself but he does talk about gadgets that make cars go faster.

We've gone from nice, slick racing tires to grooved tires. We’ve gone from V10s to V8s. And now we go from TC to no TC. I love racing and driving but I want the cars to be the fastest things on earth. In rallying, you could say that maybe you'd have more fun with rear-wheel-drive cars but if I was going to drive a rally car I'd want it to be absolute state-of-the-art four-wheel-drive. It's the same in F1. If I have 900bhp I want to be able to put that power down on the road as soon as possible. I don't mind the challenge of having to do it precisely with my right foot, but ultimately I want to go fast and I don't like things that slow me down.

I agree with him 100%. So I wont moan about the lack of a clutch pedal, and a stick, I will welcome the shifting paddles and the semi-auto magical gearbox, or whatever the hell the GT-R has. Back in the day, true car enthusiasts built up their cars to go as fast as possible. They didn't say "I need a stick and a clutch pedal in there or I ain't driving it" Because back then that's all there was, and technology has moved on from those days, we don't need clutches and sticks anymore in the conventional ways that you suggest. That is now slower and outdated. I would suggest to move on and accept the changes and welcome the new tech. After all it will only make you a faster driver, and in the end what's wrong with that?

[HashiriyaS14]

The GT-R is NOT an "exotic"

It is not designed to be and anyone who is trying to make it one understands neither the definition of "exotic" nor what the GT-R is supposed to be.

The GT-R is designed to be, within certain price and livability constraints, the absolute fastest f**king way to get around a circuit.

Exotics are NOT designed for this purpose. They're designed partly for it, but they make all sorts of OTHER concessions to appearance, pedigree, sometimes luxury, et cetera.

RWD naturally-aspirated V12s with gated shifters are hella sexy, but THIS IS NO LONGER THE BEST WAY TO GO FAST.

The best way to go fast is now AWD, turbochargers, electronic driver aids, SMG's, and other "gizmos". This is evidenced by the fact that F1 and WRC uses most of this stuff, and anything they don't use is because regulation doesn't permit it (i.e. AWD in F1).

Thus, your priority is either:

1.) To go as fast as humanly possible around a circuit by any means possible in a vehicle that costs about $60k and is daily-drivable.

2.) Something else (such as):

-Have a vehicle that is the "most fun to drive"

-Have a vehicle with "soul"

-Have a vehicle with "class" or "pedigree"

Or whatever.

You're either in the "Answer 1" crowd or you're not. If you're not, that's fine, because I'm not either (I like carb'd cars with manual chokes, lol) , but I don't take it upon myself to critique those that are.

The entire development of Japanese performance vehicles over the last 20 years has led up to the current GT-R, it is the epitome of the design philosophy. It is the next logical extension of the same thought process that led to the R32/33/34, any LanEvo, et cetera.

Ultimately, the design philosophy is "ugly is okay, and sometimes the machine knows better than the driver does". You either agree with this or you don't, but if you don't, then it is illogical for you to like the cars I mention above. They have the EXACT SAME APPROACH, just with less evolved technology.

[DrifterXRPS13]

BRAVO!!!

[Soravia]

No competition from Toyota. ISF is their LAST performance car.http://www.leftlanenews.com/to....html

Aero is the only fugly super car I have ever seen. Inside and out. Veyron at least has great interior.

[Jesda]

Ultimately, the design philosophy is "ugly is okay, and sometimes the machine knows better than the driver does".

BOO

[HashiriyaS14]

BOO

Precisely.

And you also happen to NOT be a fan of the 90's GT-R's nor any iteration of the Lancer Evolution. Your dislike of the new GTR makes complete sense.

In the cases of certain others, it totally confounds me.

[0wn3r]

Instead of sitting here and sharing my feelings of what a word/car means, I'm going to provide 2 links.

http://www.google.com/search?h...xotic

http://www.gtrnissan.com/press.en.us.html(Where Nissan uses both descriptive words: supercar and exotic)

[brandonDavid]

Its a video game with an ugly cartridge case. That's all the GTR is to me.

Nissan should spend more time building light, cheap, and simple sports cars to compete with the Miata, S2000, and Solstice. 350Z is a pig.

[Jookmasta]

i think there is some confusion in this thread. yes the gtr is not an exotic, but i think the points being stated to back up the opinions are kinda futile. you honestly don't have to explain why u like or dislike a car. going into the nitty gritty of how a car does this and that or whether it has or lacks soul is something that is best suited for a car review. it's ok to simply say i like it for this reason or i dislike it for that reason but no need to get all riled up over an opinion that is definitely of the minority of gtr lovers.

but since we are all sharing our feelings about this piece of machinery, i guess i should share mine lol. the gtr definitely will be a good buy if they bump up production and the dealer mark-ups go away. will the average buyer in that market honestly pick a nissan over the other high end names? probably not. but it definitely is something to consider if you love the exterior. the interior has enough gadgets to entertain anyone and you just have to put up with your local nissan dealership.

anyways, i'm with jesda. nissan needs to focus more on the simple sports cars as there's a better profit margin on em lol.

[snwbrdr435]

it has no clutch /end thread

[yelnatsch517]

Eh, I think you're kind of looking at it the wrong way, TMS.

No one really expects the GTR to attain the same status of the big Lambo.

What they expect it to do is offer the closest possible alternative for a lot less cash.

Wait wait wait...

So all along, TMS disliked the GT-R because he thinks other people think the GT-R is considered an exotic? Seriously are you smoking? Even the most hardcore "fanbois" don't consider the GT-R an exotic. I don't think even Nissan considers it an exotic. I have no idea where you got the idea from. The performance of a car does not determine whether it is exotic or not. I think TMS has lived in Japan a little too long...

An exotic car is like an expensive purse, it does not need functionality, or in the case of cars, performance, to command respect. It is the heritage/lineage of where it comes from and the image it portrays to the public when someone is driving it.

Just because a fixed up Honda may be faster than a Lambo around a track doesn't make it an exotic. Only idiots would argue against that and I generally completely ignore the opinion of idiots and exclude them when talking about the "public" which actually means, the knowledgeable public.

Seriously TMS You totally have the wrong idea of what the public think of the GT-R

[Soravia]

it has no clutch /end thread

GT-R has Twin-clutch that is the most advanced in the world. It still delivers torque while the gears are being changed.

GT-R is same as EVO, etc on AWD. Why is everyone dissing GT-R like it's a video game? The only thing electronics on board does is electronically split the torque between the rear wheels and transfers it to the front as necessary. Many performance cars have it already, just not done as good as the GT-R does. Suspension also stiffens itself depending on the G pull so that it doesn't break your back on normal pot-hole driving.

GT-R may not be the fastest nor the most exotic car on the planet. But it's the car that delivers power to the ground most effectively and can be driven in more conditions than any other super car on the planet.That's what GT-R is.And frankly, I don't think most of the GT-R review drivers don't drive it so well. You have to know a car to make use of its full potential. GT-R and its drive-train is very different from many other super cars so unless the test drivers have been driving GT-R R34 before, they would not really be good at R35 on the review drive.

[Jesda]

I don't really like the Evo either.

[HashiriyaS14]

I don't really like the Evo either.

I already pointed that out.

Are you putting mescaline in your curry again?

[themadscientist]

Personally, I dont think that Nissan is capable of making an exotic car... FURTHERMORE, I dont think NISSAN has ever made an exotic car.. The new GT-R is really no different than the previous models..

I would say that qualifies as exotic and proves Nissan could make something of the ilk.

Wait wait wait...

So all along, TMS disliked the GT-R because he thinks other people think the GT-R is considered an exotic? Seriously are you smoking? Even the most hardcore "fanbois" don't consider the GT-R an exotic. I don't think even Nissan considers it an exotic. I have no idea where you got the idea from. The performance of a car does not determine whether it is exotic or not. I think TMS has lived in Japan a little too long...

An exotic car is like an expensive purse, it does not need functionality, or in the case of cars, performance, to command respect. It is the heritage/lineage of where it comes from and the image it portrays to the public when someone is driving it.

Just because a fixed up Honda may be faster than a Lambo around a track doesn't make it an exotic. Only idiots would argue against that and I generally completely ignore the opinion of idiots and exclude them when talking about the "public" which actually means, the knowledgeable public.

Seriously TMS You totally have the wrong idea of what the public think of the GT-R

No I dislike the car based upon one thing. They took my GT-R and slapped the name on something that is not what a GT-R should be IMO. If this car was not occupying the space that a Proper GT-R, again IMO, should be; it would not bring the bile to the back of my throat. Call it something else, an M38GT or some **** and I would be fine with it as long as it sat in the showroom next to a GT-R that was done right.

Public opinions of the car are all over the internet and every time I see some pizza-face kid go on about how it can beat a Gallardo in a drag race or whatever I sprain my eyes on the roll This car is not and exotic and those that suggets that it is are dumb. I still don't see evidence of Nissan trying to make the comparison, they seem to be targeting supercar and despite my dislike the car is definately that. it is all cutting edge stuff, pure supercar stuff but stuff I would never ask for. Anybody who would suggest it is not a supercar is likewise foolish. Not sure where this "s-chassis replacement" idea came from. That would be like suggesting the the Ford GT is a replacement for the V6 Mustang.

[hitbychance]

well Lamborghini price: too effin much

vs

GTR price: 80 000$

ill take 3 gtr's rather then 1 lambo

[themadscientist]

And there is nothing whatsoever wrong with that; please don't think I am trying to suggest that. The r is definately bang for the buck, a bigger "buck" than I routinely fold but no doubt it brings a lot to the table specwise at its price point.

[Oatmealman]

GT-R has Twin-clutch that is the most advanced in the world. It still delivers torque while the gears are being changed.

That's like saying "this chick has a pen15 but I'm still gonna hit it because she still has an ******* that's ****able."

NO THE GT-R SUCKS ***,I hate electronic crap aiding me to drive.Sometime I wonder why people suck so much *** at driving and then I look at the list of aiding crap on most cars and it just answers my question.

[themadscientist]

That's like saying "this chick has a pen15 but I'm still gonna hit it because she still has an ******* that's ****able."

That's Socrates isn't it?

[Oatmealman]

That's Socrates isn't it?

Maybe

[Soravia]

If the GT-R sucks so bad because it has a press-button shifter (peddle but the same) why do only the best drivers in the world get to race in Formula 1? Those things come with press-button sequential transmission you know?

The fact it, with cars like GT-R that performs so fast, a manual short-throw shifter becomes a draw-back to its full potential power. I bet the shifter can be made into a manual, but it won't be as fast and there will be less control on the steering due to one hand being occupied by shifter.

This is like people complaining about the power steering because it doesn't 'FEEL' like steering controls witout power assist.

I personally hate ABS because it takes the control away from the driver. Something like sequential transmission takes (almost) nothing away from the driver, only assist the speed of the shifting.Granted, without the clutch control the driver has no ability to make reduction in torque applied to the wheels and the computers second guess it. But the GT-R was made to be FAST by appling as much torque as possible to the wheels, not controlling the clutch to reduce torque applied to the wheels.

If you're gonna complain about the clutch pedal, complain that to F1 drivers and the drag-racers with sequential and automatic transmissions.

[0wn3r]

agreed, i'm sure there are plenty of 'exotic' cars that aren't manual.

[Jesda]

I already pointed that out.

Are you putting mescaline in your curry again?

My Big Macs are half empty.

[Jesda]

Because joy and fun matter more than numbers, unless you're an F1 driver, which we all are not.

If you're gonna complain about the clutch pedal, complain that to F1 drivers and the drag-racers with sequential and automatic transmissions.

At some point, technical prowess begins to interfere with enjoyment, unless you're a gadget freak, in which case you have have Linux running on your iPhone and converted your old Altima to all-electric drive.

If you look at the GTR not as a car, but as an engineering project, its neat. If you, however, think of cars as a means of stirring emotion, and all-around being happy, then the GTR is less useful.

I'm not going to spend $80k on some dweeb's engineering project.