GROUP BUY: USB CONSULT!

[goody90q45]

I'm using a Blazt cable with a full copy of Nissan Data Scan. If you'll let me know exactly how you want to simulate the power balance test, I'll try it.

I've got the Blazt cable and NissanDataScan also and have not been able to get them to work on my laptop. Is yours a USB or serial connection to the laptop? Any insight on any problems (or lack of) you had with the install would be helpful. Thanks.

[RobertsnewQ]

Hi guys - I know I don't post here very often any more but this is a well-known problem (at least to me).

ALL of the consult boards except the original Ian Calum designed serial board do not like the 94-95 G50 ECUs and will not work with them.

You need to add a pull up resistor to the tx line from the ECU for it to work.

I've tried dozens of these and it is always the same issue. For some reason the 94-95 ECUs don't send out enough voltage.

Add the resistor and it will work.

Anyway, there is a sort of addressing - the ECU init string is 0xFF 0xFF 0xEF - it only responds to that string of bytes. The TCU responds to 0xFF 0xFF 0xEE, and the TCS has a different string (which I've never tested). The incoming data packets are a totally different format, which is what you (Jay) are seeing. The TCU actually shares a very similar hardware architecture with the early ECU and that's why it communicates so well with the Consult.

As for the power balance - Datascan will do it but you have to record the rpm drop yourself. No other consult software packages will do a power balance/cylinder drop test for all 8 cylinders. As for the IAC, timing, etc, the ECU does not alter any of that that when it receives the 0x0A command (the cylinder kill command). That functionality is inside the ECU, not the software.

I'll try to check back if anyone has any other specific Consult questions. I spent so many hours looking at disassemblies that I kind of got burned out on it - I know pretty much everything about the G50 ECUs and their consult routine handling. I even discovered a new consult command that tests the ECU RAM last year.

I've forgotten a lot of it but I still have good notes, so ask away.

[RobertsnewQ]

By the way, just to clarify, the problem will occur ONLY with 94-95 ECUs (maybe 96s too) no matter TCS or active.

Bruce, your ECU (71U04) is an 8-bit TCS ECU.

[slipnfall]

Robert: sorry I don't have time for a more verbose response, but these adapters *do* indeed have a pull-up resistor. 6.8k tied to 12Volts, with roughly a 0.001uF ceramic to ground.

This is fed directly to a good high speed opamp setup as a comparator, the threshold being 1.59Vdc.

Perhaps this opamp is causing some issues: any idea what the difference in output impedence is (from those years listed)?

These PCBs have a layout provision to allow the bypass of the op-amp, which may be necccessary. I'll have to dig a little into the CP2102 to see what the input specs are.

[slipnfall]

BTW the problem I used to see before adding the op-amp is as stated above: the ECUs would put out a high enough voltage to satisfy the 'hi' threshold, but they would not drop low enough to clear the 'lo' threshold.

Again there may be some tweaking of that pull-up needed.

[NewKleer]

why didnt u use a ft232rl chip? much better than the cp210x, especially driver wise (even supports windows ce)

also for anyone using ecutalk, v1.3.2 is the latest and has a fair few improvements (particularly performance/logging rate wise) over older versions. can log data around 3 times more often than datascan does (ie it doesnt drop as many data packets...consult transmits around 50/second depending on number of sensors being streamed)

[Q451990]

As for the power balance - Datascan will do it but you have to record the rpm drop yourself. No other consult software packages will do a power balance/cylinder drop test for all 8 cylinders. As for the IAC, timing, etc, the ECU does not alter any of that that when it receives the 0x0A command (the cylinder kill command). That functionality is inside the ECU, not the software.

That's good to know! I think it's time for me to make a purchase and see what I can do with it. Good to see you here Robert!

Heath
Modified by Q451990 at 9:47 AM 4/3/2007

[slipnfall]

It's a matter of personal preference as I've used the SiLabs for many years. I've used thrm in plenty of final designs and never had an issue. The FTDI chips available at the time required more external components, ie crystal, caps, etc. PCB layout is better with the SiLabs, which is important for small board design.

::edit:: toned down my response ::edit::

[RobertsnewQ]

If yours has a pullup AND a comparator them I'm surprised it doesn't work. I've got the impedance difference in my notes somewhere; I suppose I could just go measure them.

Have you looked at Calum's schematic? It works really well.

I have a bench set up for testing ECUs so it's a simple matter to try different things.

[ponzy]

i have a 1994 with tcs non-active...........havent checked it yet and havent bought any software yet........ .......... maybe we can or you guys can figure this out..........

may the "Q" force be with you............

heath, are you gonna go with datascan? pls post up re: datascan as i want to try the jamie-usb-consult on my q but it seems there's a bit problem with the compatibility issues with 94-95 TCS............hope not.

[jamesmost]

ok i loaded the necessary drivers and mine does work.a couple of parameters were off from realityspeed was way off (the free data scan prog does not let u adjust tire size) maybe the cause.and ignition timing read 50 at idle. i was driving home in traffic so could not record everything.Also gave code for knock sensor - but my timeing was not retarded ?/

does anyone hab=ve the full program to SHARE ?

[3Q Jay]

wow, we're getting lots of good info out there now.

first to Jaime- speaking just for myself my comments are not intended to put you on the defensive. i really appreciate your effort to bring the interface to the G50 guys, and i'm sure i'm not alone in that. my goal is just to get the facts out there, get the collective grey matter thinking and hopefully we find a solution to address all of 90-95s.

Robert- nice to see you check in. so, when i force the programs to look for 'EE', i'm actually reading the TCU. makes some sense, we just need software for the transmission.......

****

james- you have a '95 w/TCS--but is your ECU from a 91-93? we noticed on Bruce's car also that timing read 50 at idle. if you have Stage III (i think that's what Robert has named it), the ks may be ignored.

ponzy- try yours and see. synthesis of many posts suggests that a non-TCS 94 unit may work with no (added) pull-up mods.

[Q451990]

Bruce's car also that timing read 50 at idle.

I noticed this on mine too...

Heath

[Q451990]

Check out the new Consult III! Laptop with interface cable... looks like they're finally catching up with us!

http://nissanconsult.spx.com/



Amazing that they didn't make it backwards compatible... probably a way to sell two tools to new dealerships.

Heath

[dannym]

ALL of the consult boards except the original Ian Calum designed serial board do not like the 94-95 G50 ECUs and will not work with them.

Do you have a pic of the original Ian Calum board?

[RobertsnewQ]

Jay - James has a 90-93 ECU.

I can guarantee you all that the guys having trouble all have 94-95 ECUs.

The 94 Non-TCS will NOT work either, although you might get lucky and find one that works occasionally. It's the same old problem with input impedance and I'm sure Jaime can work out a fix.

As for the idle timing response that's a glitch in the datascan software - 50 (0x64 hex) is the default (0 added) timing. The stock ECU has tip-in retard that the JDM and my ECU does not have. The consult interface routines in the ECU software aren't smart enough to figure it out so they report a bogus number. I suppose I could fix it but I've never bothered. Some stock ECUs do the same thing.

The idle timing isn't the actual timing anyway - in case you guys are wondering the reported timing is what the ECU THINKS is the actual timing; actual timing depends on where the CAS is set. There's no feedback.

wow, we're getting lots of good info out there now.

first to Jaime- speaking just for myself my comments are not intended to put you on the defensive. i really appreciate your effort to bring the interface to the G50 guys, and i'm sure i'm not alone in that. my goal is just to get the facts out there, get the collective grey matter thinking and hopefully we find a solution to address all of 90-95s.

Robert- nice to see you check in. so, when i force the programs to look for 'EE', i'm actually reading the TCU. makes some sense, we just need software for the transmission.......

****

james- you have a '95 w/TCS--but is your ECU from a 91-93? we noticed on Bruce's car also that timing read 50 at idle. if you have Stage III (i think that's what Robert has named it), the ks may be ignored.

ponzy- try yours and see. synthesis of many posts suggests that a non-TCS 94 unit may work with no (added) pull-up mods.

[RobertsnewQ]

Oh and Jay - one more thing:

The 90-93 ECUs have the same hardware, and the 94-95 ECUs have the same hardware. There is only a difference on the input line from the TCS on TCS ECUs; the serial port hardware is exactly the same.

If it doesn't work on one 94 it won't work on any 94.

[slipnfall]

first to Jaime- speaking just for myself my comments are not intended to put you on the defensive.

Oh no, of course not. Sorry if I came across a little strong: believe me I'm just as frustrated as you folks. I'll admit to being a little confident: I honestly wasn't aware of CONSULT-I differences.

Robert: would you be willing to test out a board for the sake of the members? Since you're the guru on the G50 stuff, I figure you're the best on to test one. I'm pretty sure I still have your email address so I'll fire one your way in a minute.

So can we just get a 'head count' on all those with a 94-95 ECU? Just so I have an idea on how many may be affected.

[jamesmost]

yes i do have a 90-93 ecu

[slipnfall]

ok, so i tried in my 95

yes i do have a 90-93 ecu

You mean '94-95?

[jamesmost]

You mean '94-95?

my chassis is a 95my ecu is from 90-93 (so robert was able to put multiple programs on it)my transmission is a 91 fyi (taller first gear)

[maxnix]

So can we just get a 'head count' on all those with a 94-95 ECU? Just so I have an idea on how many may be affected.

I have two non active non TCS Bowen modified.

Not tested yet.

[ponzy]

i have 1994 with tcs........

[ponzy]

so what's up guys.............how do we deal with this? do we have to return the interface and have a refund or we'll have to wait and try to fix it?

i still trust wes and jamie.....but can anyone recommend a decent software and interface......?

[slipnfall]

ponzy: a board is being sent to Robert to do some testing with. He has, hands down, more Q ECUs there to test this on. I can't really give a timeframe, but if we find there is something to tweak on the board, it will have to be returned (to be updated, or for refund). I'll let it up to you guys who are having trouble, if you want to wait for a potential fix, or simply return the board.

[ponzy]

can i have the option to wait and if there's no fix can i return it and have it refunded? thanks jamie.........i would surely want it to have it fixed anyway..... i did'nt tried the interface yet cause i want it to remain as is "brand new--resalable condition" just in case we can't find a fix for 94-95 issue..

any news with the best cost-effective software so far for 94 q with tcs non-active?

thanks again....

[slipnfall]

Please do give it a shot: it certainly won't hurt anything, and you may luck out. Of course you can wait untill this is resolved, but in the meantime why not go for it? I will still honor a refund, even if it has been used. No worries there.

[jamesmost]

Please do give it a shot: it certainly won't hurt anything, and you may luck out. Of course you can wait untill this is resolved, but in the meantime why not go for it? I will still honor a refund, even if it has been used. No worries there.

JUST BUY A 90-93 ECU THEY GO FOR $60-$100 ON EBAY there are prob a few floating around here as well

[jamesmost]

anyone sharing the full Software ??

[sdkhalsa]

I have a 94' Q with TCS, DataScan software, and all of the functions work except the timing which reads improper scale, about 50.