Got a new car! And sadly, its not in the Nissan Family...a competitor*

[lucidd]

Ok... So my wifey and I needed a second car, and did entertain the idea of another G - in awd-x.I do like my G - 07G35s sedan. Its fun, fast... but a few things turned us off.We decided on a 2009 Acura Tsx.I know - it isn't as fast - alot slower... it has the 2.4 I4... but- alot better on Ga$$ - The G is actually quite bad mind you. And with the economic i$$ues, and Ga$ costs - which is just gonna go up... I'll prob give up the G when my lease is up.Styling- i actually like... especially when we got the one with Aero package.+ the clutch on the TSX is soo much smoother... and it doesn't make cluckin noises at idle/neutral like my G does lol.Cost would be similar - The G may have been more - but it was because of the AWD option.

But*Most*of*all*** we made the decision based on the fact that the TSX has a far better sound system vs my G. Sorry Infiniti... your bOsE "poop on wheels" system totally licks. The Base TSX panasonic system sounds better!... I've posted this before - re the BoSe system weeknesses. And Yes I made a car purchase decision mainly based on the sounds system. Hope you are listening Nissan/infiniti.

When my lease is up, I'd definitely go with another manufacturer - if they stay with boSe. I can't stand my G's sound - I swear, I have it turned off/or turned wayy down 85% of the time.

Anyways... end rant... thanks for listening...Anyone have opinions on the TSX? - good or bad... on the BoSe system on their G's or... the new Acura/Panasonic ELS sound systems?Thx. L

[pfarmer]

Ok... . on the BoSe system on their G's or... the new Acura/Panasonic ELS sound systems?Thx. L

The Bose sounds fine as long as you ignore door rattles. It may not pop the welds in your trunk but then it isn't simply a large boom box.

Perry

[lucidd]

Agreed- this bOSe system will not pop your welds- not what I'm looking for anyways.

Andit does sound like a large boom box- sometimes worse.

I'm just looking for sound clarity. The Bose doesn't have that... Most music is produced with a muddy midrange, and the lack of high freq. Bass is ok but heard better. L

[LuckyLuke]

ewww.. Acura.. if you can't go with the G.. you should have gone with the Lexus. I think Lexus looks much better than Acura and perform as well as the Acura. I love Acura interior, but there is no styling on the exterior.. too blocky for me.

[pfarmer]

Agreed- this bOSe system will not pop your welds- not what I'm looking for anyways.

Andit does sound like a large boom box- sometimes worse.

I'm just looking for sound clarity. The Bose doesn't have that... Most music is produced with a muddy midrange, and the lack of high freq. Bass is ok but heard better. L

I bet if you actually test this out you would fine it is actually pretty accurate, but not what many really want. The one thing I find it lacks a little bit (and my hearing lacks this as well) is on the highs. The bass is fine but not 1 gigawatt like many who drive around with the license plate rattling expect. The mid-range are right on and the treble is probably ok but I have to run it up in order to make it sound like I want it to sound and it doesn't allow enough latitude to overcome the one place I want a little boost.

It has minimal adjustments compared to most aftermarket head units. But accurate it most likely is if one actually tests a known sound source standard on it.

Perry

[Sentientbydesign]

I defended Bose systems for years because the system in my 96 I30 was superb. I'd actually go to my car to listen to music because nothing in the house could compare.

Then a bad bad thing happened. The notorious Clarion Head Unit died. So I got another one in better condition from a 97 and had it repaired. My CDs never sounded as good after that.

So, I think that the Head Unit might be to blame, but I will say that I wouldn't dare touch a premium package because I think the Bose in the G sounds like poop flushing in a toilet when heard from outside during a thunderstorm.

The base audio sucks just as bad

[Tampa G35 Sedan 6MT]

omg this is a shocker

[lucidd]

Guess I'd make more sense in an sound forum... Does this bose system sound good with certain songs? -yes. But is it great? NO. And does sound -"sound"- different to the next person?-yes.

... a good way to find out what you have in your car - our cars, is to go do a comparison test.

It's like a test drive - chose a route [like Jacko's secret track] ... then take your car on it, then take a GTR [if you find one... but just an example].

Take a cd - list of songs that you are familiar with - maybe some favorites and then listen to your system... then listen to another with the same cd.Compare to lets say a: BMW 3series Harman Kardon, or Lexus Mark/Levinson, or Audi's B&O, or Acura's ELS, or a aftermarket alpine show car-something different.And compare - objectively... diff volumes, settings, songs... You'd be surprised at what you'd find.

IMO-The Bose/Infiniti Studio on Wheels system is just as loud... or even louder... BUT nowhere close to the above mentioned sytems - in *sound clarity. ... U'll only know what I mean if you did a comparison test. L

PS. I still do have my 07 G35. Just a fair comparison to what's out there is in turn when getting a new / second car

[lucidd]

yes,

Not a shocker...When a better product comes out from whatever brand it may be... I'd jump on it.

So it's safe to say that I'm not brand loyal to NIssan....I've had Honda,toyota,audi, and now my Infiniti-nissan.

I'd go get a Ford for my next car if it suited my needs....L

[pfarmer]

Guess I'd make more sense in an sound forum... Does this bose system sound good with certain songs? -yes. But is it great? NO. And does sound -"sound"- different to the next person?-yes.

... a good way to find out what you have in your car - our cars, is to go do a comparison test.

It's like a test drive - chose a route [like Jacko's secret track] ... then take your car on it, then take a GTR [if you find one... but just an example].

Take a cd - list of songs that you are familiar with - maybe some favorites and then listen to your system... then listen to another with the same cd.Compare to lets say a: BMW 3series Harman Kardon, or Lexus Mark/Levinson, or Audi's B&O, or Acura's ELS, or a aftermarket alpine show car-something different.And compare - objectively... diff volumes, settings, songs... You'd be surprised at what you'd find.

IMO-The Bose/Infiniti Studio on Wheels system is just as loud... or even louder... BUT nowhere close to the above mentioned sytems - in *sound clarity. ... U'll only know what I mean if you did a comparison test. L

PS. I still do have my 07 G35. Just a fair comparison to what's out there is in turn when getting a new / second car

The best way is to test it with a test disk if you want to know if it is accurate or not. The problem with listening to songs you know is where you know them from. Why some find certain systems 'muddy' is often because they are flat with few peaks. Regardless of the system nearly all listeners will boost the bass, the treble or both. Technical reviewers will often find the Infiniti Bose sounds better than the Lexus Mark Levinson while the car owners tend to go for the grass is greener on the other side.

Put a test disk in the system and actually measure the result with all settings flat and a better story will be told. It is not volume that counts and sound clarity is simply a term, what counts is audio accuracy. A flat frequency response from 16 to 22 k is more of a measure than using ears that all have peaks and valleys in what they can discern.

Perry

[pfarmer]

I defended Bose systems for years because the system in my 96 I30 was superb. I'd actually go to my car to listen to music because nothing in the house could compare.

Then a bad bad thing happened. The notorious Clarion Head Unit died. So I got another one in better condition from a 97 and had it repaired. My CDs never sounded as good after that.

So, I think that the Head Unit might be to blame, but I will say that I wouldn't dare touch a premium package because I think the Bose in the G sounds like poop flushing in a toilet when heard from outside during a thunderstorm.

The base audio sucks just as bad

You should be listening to it from the inside, no wonder it sounds muddy to some.

Seriously I wish all cars were sold without a sound system. It will have an interface for system sounds and you would connect all in a similar fashion to what you do with a home rack mounted system. You go to the dealer, you pick the sound system of your choice, the speakers, amp, whatever and then it is professionally installed. The sound system would provide an industry standard video output for display. Hmm... just like the good old days right between the vehicle specific units when the norms were basically din or double din only how we view what is occurring is different.

Perry

[Sentientbydesign]

You should be listening to it from the inside, no wonder it sounds muddy to some.

Seriously I wish all cars were sold without a sound system. It will have an interface for system sounds and you would connect all in a similar fashion to what you do with a home rack mounted system. You go to the dealer, you pick the sound system of your choice, the speakers, amp, whatever and then it is professionally installed. The sound system would provide an industry standard video output for display. Hmm... just like the good old days right between the vehicle specific units when the norms were basically din or double din only how we view what is occurring is different.

Perry

Great idea! Actually, I'd like to see modular designs throughout the industry.

For instance...I love the new Camaro body design, but I don't want to touch the rest of the car. Imagine purchasing a chassis from one manufacturer, drivetrain from another, interior from another.

And before any nay-sayers come up with "what about engine fitment" standardisation could fix every problem posed.

Just think:

Japanese ElectronicsItalian InteriorJapanese WheelsGerman styling?

[pfarmer]

Great idea! Actually, I'd like to see modular designs throughout the industry.

For instance...I love the new Camaro body design, but I don't want to touch the rest of the car. Imagine purchasing a chassis from one manufacturer, drivetrain from another, interior from another.

And before any nay-sayers come up with "what about engine fitment" standardisation could fix every problem posed.

Just think:

Japanese ElectronicsItalian InteriorJapanese WheelsGerman styling?

Not really a new idea since this was the norm for early 'premium cars'.

You actually have this ability to a certain extent now with some kit cars.To me I don't mind purchasing something like the Infiniti with 'bare' electronics. Certain other things would be very difficult outside the kit car industry due to today's regulations but I believe electronics would not really fall into that catagory beyound those needed by the base car itself.

You could apply the concept to mix and matches of body panels such as the sport or base model we have now. Seats is another example where it should be ok as well. I like my sport seats however if I was a bigger person I don't think I would like them at all. On the flip side I don't like the base model fronts at all so no choice but to take the seats or not take the car.

Perry

[lucidd]

I totally agree. I've used a sine wave from 20hz-20khz for my home theatre system as well as my cmputer system. Both of them have a flatter response=consistent volume throughout the playback of most of the freq, than my Bose system in my car.

My car's playback of the wave have an extreme peak at the upper mids.. With a gross and quick fallout when getting close to the highs. Acuracy? It does lack.

But that's only part of this Bose system's problems. When these speakers are forced to output a range of the frequencies at once... It gets muddy-messy sounding... I believe it is due to the quality of the paper drivers and ... Umm BAD tuning on hoses part. We don't have a graphic eq- so there's really no way of "fixing" or alleviating the issue.

An eq would have helped immensely.Anyways... The G is a good car- pretty happy with everything else-fuel Eco can b better... But hey, no perfection in any car. Just depends on your priorities- to some, it is performance 0-60, or fuel Eco, or interior features (which include ergos and audio entertainment), reliability, style...etc.

But imagine, a car that boasts a BETTER balance of all the above?... Imagine a hybrid-or a turbo4cyl G, with an ELS sound system... Not impossible- but right now, nissan has no such product. Peace, L

[pfarmer]

I totally agree. I've used a sine wave from 20hz-20khz for my home theatre system as well as my cmputer system. Both of them have a flatter response=consistent volume throughout the playback of most of the freq, than my Bose system in my car.

And how did you measure this, hopefully not by listening.

Perry

[pfarmer]

I'm sorry to say but running a single sine wave for testing freq.resp. is not the optimal method to say the least. What did you use as a reference? An O-scope, calibrated spectrum analyzer? If so you should have used pink/white noise to calibrate/test. Further more just to mention I have never been a big fan of Bose speakers especially for home/pro sound use BUT I will have to say the system in my wifes G37 coupe is worlds better than the previous G35 coupe she had. After the G35 she went to an Acura and I personally think their Panasonic based systems lack adequate headroom but hey what do I know? I have only repaired consumer electronics for over 22 years, worked as a recording and pro sound engineer and have played various musical instruments on a professional level since I was 14 years old.

That is basically the point, the source you use and how you measure it. A car is a difficult environment since even if you set it up something like a human or a bag of groceries gets in the way.

As far as Bose speakers, well, not my favorite. Since AR is not what it used to be (and I do mean a long time ago) I have no favorites.

Perry

[lucidd]

Ok- so I'm no sound expert- still learning- since I started to research sound in an audiophile way... Only a few yrs ago. So yes, still learning.

Source= sine wave 20hz-20khz downloaded from a source on net that is recommended by audiophile forum- I think it was AVforum or toms hardware...

I use an inexpensive Realistic sound level meter- I got from eBay... So it may NOT be the best tool... ... But I do have a secondary Pioneer MCACC mic (originally for my amp calibration)... Hooked up to my laptop-using freeware to measure it's input. It works- but not a professional way.

So I'm glad there's a professional sound guy here! Don't get me wrong- I'm not saying your wifes G is ______.. Like I sed, I got one too. Just on this forum, and really glad that there are members that can help and add and disagree with my findings-or senses.

Ok guys I do believe that a sine wave is definitive part of objectively measuring the freq response in any system... Measure of response• not necessarily a persons listening experience... Which incorporates a whole slew of other factors. I don't know if it is too much to ask- but can you guys try listening to some songs at mid-then higher volumes - with SNARE drums(or similar sounds) mixed with other instruments and vocals---? And let me know how that instrument sounds in comparison to the rest? Thanx in andvance!!! Just want see if only I get listener fatigue due to the snare drum set of freqs being too loud is common throughout all these systems or just mine? Thx L

[zozoka1212]

I'm sorry to say but running a single sine wave for testing freq.resp. is not the optimal method to say the least. What did you use as a reference? An O-scope, calibrated spectrum analyzer? If so you should have used pink/white noise to calibrate/test. Further more just to mention I have never been a big fan of Bose speakers especially for home/pro sound use BUT I will have to say the system in my wifes G37 coupe is worlds better than the previous G35 coupe she had. After the G35 she went to an Acura and I personally think their Panasonic based systems lack adequate headroom but hey what do I know? I have only repaired consumer electronics for over 22 years, worked as a recording and pro sound engineer and have played various musical instruments on a professional level since I was 14 years old.

I don't understand half of what you said but it does sound cool. LOL

I am happy with my Bose. Also some of the competitors might have equal or better sounding audio(I tried all and did not find any better than other) but when you roll down the window and turn off the audio and listen to your G purr. Well it puts the competition in shame.

[pfarmer]

Ok- so I'm no sound expert- still learning- since I started to research sound in an audiophile way... Only a few yrs ago. So yes, still learning.

Source= sine wave 20hz-20khz downloaded from a source on net that is recommended by audiophile forum- I think it was AVforum or toms hardware...

I use an inexpensive Realistic sound level meter- I got from eBay... So it may NOT be the best tool... ... But I do have a secondary Pioneer MCACC mic (originally for my amp calibration)... Hooked up to my laptop-using freeware to measure it's input. It works- but not a professional way.

So I'm glad there's a professional sound guy here! Don't get me wrong- I'm not saying your wifes G is ______.. Like I sed, I got one too. Just on this forum, and really glad that there are members that can help and add and disagree with my findings-or senses.

Ok guys I do believe that a sine wave is definitive part of objectively measuring the freq response in any system... Measure of response• not necessarily a persons listening experience... Which incorporates a whole slew of other factors. I don't know if it is too much to ask- but can you guys try listening to some songs at mid-then higher volumes - with SNARE drums(or similar sounds) mixed with other instruments and vocals---? And let me know how that instrument sounds in comparison to the rest? Thanx in andvance!!! Just want see if only I get listener fatigue due to the snare drum set of freqs being too loud is common throughout all these systems or just mine? Thx L

Fleetwood Mac with Mick on the drums should do you.

Perry

[audtatious]

I've had aftermarket systems in my cars since the mid 80's and can find little fault with the system in my coupe, being it is from the factory. Sure, highs could be clearer with aftermarket tweeters (easy fix.....Just don't know if I want my MB Quarts or JL's in there) and additional low frequency response would be improvements but for day to day listening I am very happy with the factory setup.

RTA/O-scope with pink noise is the only true way to determine the sound characteristics of an audio system. The only time I have found sine wave sweeps to be helpful in a car is to determine any major holes or if certain frequencies rattle interior parts. Pink noise tests are not the end-all either as having a flat response simply does not sound good, IMO. It's also not advisable to compare home systems to car systems either as in a home you have a large space and are usually 3-6-9-12+ feet away from the speakers where in the car you have proximity and on/off axis responses to deal with.

While I hated the Bose system in my previous 2k2 Maxima (and replaced it within 2 years of ownership) I am quite content with the setup Infiniti has put in the G.

[pfarmer]

Source= sine wave 20hz-20khz downloaded from a source on net that is recommended by audiophile forum- I think it was AVforum or toms hardware...

---------------------------

Ok guys I do believe that a sine wave is definitive part of objectively measuring the freq response in any system... Measure of response• not necessarily a persons listening experience... Which incorporates a whole slew of other factors.

An issue with using a sine wave and a graphic analyzer or other instrument is that it will show the peaks and valleys, it will not show harmonics and other qualities that count in a system. Consider the speakers as they output a sinewave at a particular frequency compared to outputting several at the same time.

Perry

[pfarmer]

I've had aftermarket systems in my cars since the mid 80's and can find little fault with the system in my coupe, being it is from the factory. Sure, highs could be clearer with aftermarket tweeters (easy fix.....Just don't know if I want my MB Quarts or JL's in there) and additional low frequency response would be improvements but for day to day listening I am very happy with the factory setup.

RTA/O-scope with pink noise is the only true way to determine the sound characteristics of an audio system. The only time I have found sine wave sweeps to be helpful in a car is to determine any major holes or if certain frequencies rattle interior parts. Pink noise tests are not the end-all either as having a flat response simply does not sound good, IMO. It's also not advisable to compare home systems to car systems either as in a home you have a large space and are usually 3-6-9-12+ feet away from the speakers where in the car you have proximity and on/off axis responses to deal with.

While I hated the Bose system in my previous 2k2 Maxima (and replaced it within 2 years of ownership) I am quite content with the setup Infiniti has put in the G.

I actually find the lows fairly good, not with the punch that blows welds on your trunk but for a factory system, pretty good. The highs are a little harder for me to tell since that is one area I have a little problem with as well as dropouts in my right ear in voice ranges. But then this is the point of not trusting your ears. If I were to test everyone here they would all be different. Different or not that is how we do listen to music.

Personally I believe we do the same with colors which is one reason we all have our different favorites. To me what is important is the ability of the system to take what is recorded and present it accurately at neutral settings. This is where I do have an issue with our systems, the inability of tuning it to our likes. it is very limited in this way.

I agree that you can't really compare it with a home system, listening ranges are different, constraints are placed on speaker positioning, and it is all too easy to upset it with simply someone getting into any of the seats or even groceries, coats, anything. While this also has an affect in the house I believe it goes largely unnoticed by many if not most.

Perry

[tollboothwilley]

You know what they say "No highs, no lows, must be BOSE"

Their high end home audio is a different story though.

I really hate the stock sound setup in the G as well. That is why it was the first thing to go. I've never liked the stock stereo in any car I've been in though. Its always the first thing changed out.

I will attribute most of the quality issues with the BOSE to the headunit, however, Even with an ALPINE HU the speakers virtually cut off at 10K Hz and the bass just sucks.

That being said, I'd never buy a car based off audio quality. They always suck.

[pfarmer]

You know what they say "No highs, no lows, must be BOSE"

Their high end home audio is a different story though.

I really hate the stock sound setup in the G as well. That is why it was the first thing to go. I've never liked the stock stereo in any car I've been in though. Its always the first thing changed out.

I will attribute most of the quality issues with the BOSE to the headunit, however, Even with an ALPINE HU the speakers virtually cut off at 10K Hz and the bass just sucks.

That being said, I'd never buy a car based off audio quality. They always suck.

To me with modern cars so much is tied to them. I debated this when purchasing my 'G'. If you want an aftermarket unit what do you do, get the base or get the upgrade. Which is the best to remove? Problem is that the audio unit is also the nav display, the display for a/c, etc. It is like having an all in one home unit and the dvd player dies with no external inputs.

I would like to see a minimum standard for the display and give full control of the audio/visual of the car to the consumer.

When I decided to upgrade my 300 m wtih 2 5 channel amps, speakers, head unit, cd changer, xm and so on, the only thing I lost was the display associated with personal settings of the seats (which basically is just which setting it is, one or two).

Perry

[audtatious]

Factory can easily be adapted to aftermarket without losing functionality. With my 2k2 Maxima I did try a PAC AOEM-NIS2 in order to keep the factory Bose 6CD unit. It worked "ok" only because the first piece of equipment in line was a PPI para-EQ preamp which allowed me to adjust levels. Without the preamp it would have had bass issues due to the way the factory Bose HU utilized internal equalization to decrease bass response when you start turning up the volume. BUT, that has changed with the release of products like the JL Audio CleanSweep.

Hell, if JL came out with a TL5 that was the diameter of the 10" in the G37 doors I would consider upgrading the whole system with CleanSweep, TL5, higher-end mid and tweeters. They don't so I'll just leave things alone for now. The trunk is small enough without me trying to stuff a sub and multiple amps into it. I don't want the added weight either.

[pfarmer]

Factory can easily be adapted to aftermarket without losing functionality.

They don't so I'll just leave things alone for now. The trunk is small enough without me trying to stuff a sub and multiple amps into it. I don't want the added weight either.

In the case of aftermarket the issues I see is the interface. Nearly everything on the 'G' is a balanced output, everything on many amps are setup for non-balance. So you need to adapt. the other issue is simply mounting. In my 300m it was simply a single dim hu unit with a plastic adapater, for the 'G' it is a totally different story. What I see is that because of the display it may be the one to go first and replaced with another one dedicated to a new controller which interfaces to the rest such as nav, etc. Whatever it is not nearly as seemless as it could be. Even diagnostic functions for the car are tied to it.

Perry

[audtatious]

I had not researched the outputs from the G-series headunits and assumed it was similar to the 2k2 Maxima Bose system. Being balanced outputs you can simply intercept the signal(s) before the amp(s) and attach RCA's. At that point you can utilize an amp that accepts balanced inputs and go from there. Additional reading tells me the amps do all the processing so the balanced signals should be flat. The end result would be a fully functional factory system with aftermarket amp(s)/speakers

[zozoka1212]

Make sure you check with Honda. They just released a recall over some fatality and serious injuries caused by driver airbag. I think the Acura TL was included too. Not sure about the TSX.

That's not a good news for Honda and Honda owners.

[pfarmer]

I had not researched the outputs from the G-series headunits and assumed it was similar to the 2k2 Maxima Bose system. Being balanced outputs you can simply intercept the signal(s) before the amp(s) and attach RCA's. At that point you can utilize an amp that accepts balanced inputs and go from there. Additional reading tells me the amps do all the processing so the balanced signals should be flat. The end result would be a fully functional factory system with aftermarket amp(s)/speakers

Or go with a 40 buck adapter that provides 4 inputs. I think a lot of people do not take this into consideration and they end up with problems with their headunits that they can not figure out.

But there are other issues than just the normal music parts of the system, such as nav, etc. if one wants to go beyond simply the amp.

To make things easier if I was doing a complete speaker upgrade I would go with an aftermarket amp (actually a couple). This would make the speaker selection easier than trying to match speakers to the current amp.

The reason I mentioned several amps is that I would put a processor between the head unit and the amps to amplify the spectrum separately. I have a processor for example that is essentially an equalizer with separate outputs.

What I would like to utilize now would be one that would interface with the display using the aux inputs, a few home units will do this and maybe could be utilized. From looking at the FSM it looks like it may be possible to get the display to display one source while listening to another.

Perry

[lucidd]

Ok... Update- if you guys care... I know this is a Gforum.Took delivery I the Tsx and evrything is cool:) lots smoother-with still very stiff sport suspension. Great on gas!-compared to my G.

But other than those remarks... The Acura Els surround sound is absolutely amazing*... Playing the same mp3 cd from my G... First impression: soooooo much clearer-clarity of sound is excellent compared to any car system I've heard-comparable to the harman kardon logic7. Loud enuff with 415watts. Really happy with this system- almost better than my 7.1surround Klipsch home theatre system-which is part of klipsch's reference series.

Just a note for comparison... Like I said- I do hope Infiniti does the switch from Bose to Bang&olufson (like audi has a few yrs ago) before my G lease is up.

Peace:)L