Got a new car! And sadly, its not in the Nissan Family...a competitor*

[pfarmer]

Insider info? - it's no secret what Bose does. - It's outsider info... apparent by what they do with their marketing and POP. It is just that some see thru the marketing and to the actual product.

"Greater sacrilege putting a a particular sound system in a particular car or some othe car manufacturer's drive train components in your car? " is your question??? UMMM... ummm... What are we discussing? - Why put unnecessary ?'s and statements in_ an already long thread? --- ok --- to answer your question... It depends on the quality and suitability of the third party product installed into "your car". Like an example is having Getrag [spelling] make the G's 6speed manual - and it works well...-JUST LIke in the latest 04?Toyota Supras* with the Getrag 6speed. Was a good transmission -as I heard. Praise from magazines like motor trend, c&d, r&t etc. Nothing wrong with that... and quite frankly, if the G came with a Getrag 6sp ... It would probably be better... instead of all the complaints from both customers and magazines about the actuation and noises.

So - sacrilege it is not - if the 3rd party product is a good one! ... In the case of Bose, like I said, is a bad one in my books = sacrilege.

I see so you really don't know what is required of Best Buy in regard to display of Bose equipment. It is not outsider information, insider information, it is no information.

'So - sacrilege it is not - if the 3rd party product is a good one! ... In the case of Bose, like I said, is a bad one in my books = sacrilege'

Reviewed very well by professionals so maybe bad in your book but in the books of others it seems to hit the mark. Should not be surprised based on these specs for the amp:

0.0037 percent THD and a dynamic range of 100dB.

I challenge anyone to tell the difference between 1 or even 2% THD and 0.0037%.

Don't like the speakers, then replace them. 2 ohms may be a little bit harder to find but one could impedance match them. Or one could easily replace most everything except the head unit.

Of course with specs like this from the amp one can easily see that there really is an easier fix then buying an inferior car and replacing the drive train in order to get performance from the car and performance from the sound system:

I am not simply talking about a transmission in the way of other manufacturers parts (pertains to Bose as well), I am speaking of a Nissan with Toyota parts, a French Nissan (basic design by Renault) built in Mexico, and in the case of a Honda, a SUV built by another car company and then rebadged.

Badging is really basically what sound systems that are 'certified' really amount to. And yes stock car speakers really are often a short coming in many cars with many different sound systems. They often appear to be designed only to last as long as the first primary owner owns the car. Should not be surprised about this since saving a couple of bucks on a run of 100,000 cars can be a sizable chunk of change in the way of savings that will often not be seen as a negative.

But then is it really a negative as seen by professional eyes?

http://www.stereophile.com/news/071706infiniti/

100k system:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/in....html

One of the 7 best:

http://blogs.thecarconnection....stems

http://www.gearlog.com/2006/07...e.php

http://apps.detnews.com/apps/autoreviews/?id=27880

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/a....html

http://en.autos.sympatico.msn....23786

Perry

[pfarmer]

Sure... and Let me know how it goes when you get a chance to audition the competition's sound systems... ... Hope you do - cuz at the least, You'll see the differences. L

I doubt I will see any real difference. As far as hearing them, yes will hear a difference, the same as hearing a difference from a compressed sound source and a non-compressed sound source. A difference doesn't make anything actually better.

Perry
Modified by pfarmer at 11:33 PM 8/15/2009

[quixote]

I don't pay a lot of attention to the car sound system. Most of the time, I just listen to the radio. At home, I have klipsch system at home for the movies( Klf30, C7, etc)

[lucidd]

Guess I am just a little partial to Bose, I actually love the sound system in my G37. It's very clear and can get louder than I am comfortable with while driving. I know there are better aftermarket systems, but as I have a running debate with a friend over HD tv's, I can only see so clearly, and I can only hear so clearly. Beyond that, doesn't really matter. I have a Bose surround sound at home too which I truly love, some people don't like those either. Anyway, I'm sure you'll enjoy your Acura, great quality auto. Good Luck.

Great! Seriously, if you like the sound, small footprint, and its clean look - then all the power to you. You are entitled to your opinion good or bad. You know how debates can be... Re: HDTV, I know what you mean by you can only see so much... I've watched 720 mkv files vs 1080 mkv files - and most of the time I could not tell the difference. 720 - is pretty good. I have a Sharp aquos1080hdtv lc72u< something like that. For the TV differences between 1080p and 720p, it is not until you watch the 2 - side by side, that differences can be spotted. Visual diffs are usually quite definite. If there is a difference, one can spot it - especially when put side by side. Then there is the 60hz, 120hz, 240hz and even 480hz differences - visually, there is definite differences that can be spotted right away. My opinion?- I think 120hz and above makes for a very unnatural "Look", and don't really like it.What do you prefer? ---I may prefer 60hz [even though there is motion "stepping"] because my Lc42u is 60hz. Now If i had 120hz or 240hz - would I prefer the same still?? - maybe, maybe not.

For sound, often times, it is hard to hear differences. Sight and sound are different. I believe sound is more subjective. --- And what sounds "good" to you may not sound good to me -simple.

You find the bose systems adequate and "good" sounding... you have your reasons.Just the same as I have my reasons for believing the opposite.

[lucidd]

Yah, the Bose system in the G is definitely good enough for AM radio. I'll try listening to that more often.

Klipsch makes decent speakers. I like their horn loaded tweets... and the fact that they are very efficient loudspeakers. Crisp, clear, and good bang for buck.

Klipsch and Bose have been long time competitors... wish Klipsch started to make some car audio.

L

[quixote]

I am a big fan of klipsch loud speaker. I bought my sister a pair of horn as her wedding gift. She's a musician, and she loves it. In my apartment, I have klf 30 and C7 center speaker and new rs-52 surround speaker. I didn't hook up my subwoofer, because my the neighbour live above me is a crazy b****.

[lucidd]

nice! Your system must sound awesome! Too bad you can't turn it up!--- I guess that's y I hold car audio relatively imporant... I can turn it up as loud as I like unless I have a passenger :p

[pfarmer]

Yah, the Bose system in the G is definitely good enough for AM radio. I'll try listening to that more often.

Klipsch makes decent speakers. I like their horn loaded tweets... and the fact that they are very efficient loudspeakers. Crisp, clear, and good bang for buck.

Klipsch and Bose have been long time competitors... wish Klipsch started to make some car audio.

L

They may start to 'farm' out the name just as the others have. It is good for business.

Perry

[pfarmer]

The system in my Wifes G37x coupe is not that bad! Actually, out of all the more expensive vehicles we've owned it comes out near the top in my book.

As we all know the flatter the PB freq.response the more accurate we hear what the band/producer/engineer intended.

This last part is actually where I do have an issue. The reason is that our hearing response is not flat, we all have our little peaks and valleys. To me in order to hear it like the producer intended we have to be able to hear like he/she does, that is with his peaks and valleys. Much of what we like we like on our previous or present systems and to hear it like we initially liked it we need to be able to 'tune' the system to the same basic parameters. I find the Infiniti Bose system limited in this ability. But then I find this to be the case in nearly all OEM systems.

Much of what I like in music is music I grew up with which means virgin vinyl, quality turntable, reel to reel, home built amp and AR speakers and head phones (when I wanted to really crank it up with the parents sleeping nearby). Now while I can duplicate the system itself and then some, what has changed is the fact that the ears of a teenager are not the ears I now possess. I find the one item I would like to boost are the tweeters, which appears to be the one area that others have in common as well based on they being happy once they replaced the factory tweeters.

Perry

[Vince B]

Human hearing, psychoacoustics and the like can be debated till the end of time. What one person likes another does not. You can not debate the principles of physics, acoustics and electronics. I think I should know by now that the human ear COUPLED with our brains has a unique loudness / response curve. Yes it’s not flat and yes everyone is different but we all exhibit similar characteristics as long as we do not have damaged hearing and are not elderly. By the way my wife is an audiologist. I also have recorded and mastered to every media such as multi track open reel tape, vinyl, DAT, multi track digital tape and now HDD via Pro-Tools. The recording engineer has at his/her disposal and arsenal of sound shaping tools but the bottom line is once its mixed down to 2 tracks then onto the mastering engineers master its done. Unless you have access to the multi-track session recordings all you can do is alter the OVERALL audio via Eq. (parametric, graphic or simple LH/LMH), speaker placement and choice of PB equipt. If you choose speakers that have the flattest freq. response then you will experience the most accurate rendition of what transferred onto the final media ie:Vinyl Album, CD. That may be what you want to hear or not. That’s personal preference. Maybe the engineer was light on the highs between 12-15 kHz and you want your HF drivers to make your ears bleed. No problem, adjust as necessary. You will not hear what the band/engineer heard in the recording studio control room or mastering house unless you own all the specific equipt. used in the exact same position they sat in the exact same room with the exact same SPL’s along with the identical EQ, Reverb, Pan settings etc….

[lucidd]

This post about Bose or no Bose has really gotten out of hand. The discussion of Bose quality can sometimes elicit strong opinions. There seem to be two major camps: those who see Bose as a maker ofhigh-end audio equipment and others who see Bose as a company that uses marketing to make extravagant claims for otherwise ordinary products. These debates can be extended and sometimes rancorous. Lets put it to rest. As I stated before I am not a fan of Bose. Dr. Amar Bose' designs have always been very unconventional to say the least. I will repeat again. I have repaired Bose products down to the component level as well as every other audio/video manufacturer in the last 21 years. Everything from Radio Shack (Optimus) to high end (Krell, Mark Levinson, Cary, etc...) The system in my Wifes G37x coupe is not that bad! Actually, out of all the more expensive vehicles we've owned it comes out near the top in my book. Remember I was also a recording/pro sound engineer as well as a musician. I have played piano since I was 5 years old. As well as percussion (drums), brass and woodwind instruments. Now that you know my background and I'm not here to blow smoke. My opinion is as worthless as everyone else right?. Let's give it a break...Your not in a recording studio creating or controlling the music. Once its made, believe it or not, you do not have that much control on changing it. Even though you think you do. In the studio, the microphone is the most important element. On the flip side, the speaker is to the end user. As we all know the flatter the PB freq.response the more accurate we hear what the band/producer/engineer intended. Wouldn't you be quite surprised to know that in the last 25 years a YAMAHA bookshelf speaker was used as "the" reference to mix/record the worlds greatest recordings. Then, you get to playback on your Transmission Audio home speaker system which is definitively better sounding than Bose and Klipsch combined!

On contrary, I believe your opinion is a value to these discussion forums. Especially when you are "expert" in the field... you can add to the discussion.

But "Lets give it a break"... Because you're expert and you said so?... or because this subject has been covered already?? HMMM... ... ... seriously, with all due respect, even if you are Amar Bose himself, it will not change my opinion on this particular system. -It's all relative. I believe this system is garbage compared to the competitions' [mentioned before]. Simple, a simple audition of them will give you the "light" -enlightenment.

You said yourself, we all hear differently... so our opinions will differ. sue me for having a different opinion, but I'm not the only one.

Let's be constructive.In my case, I don't really like upgrading things in a LEASE vehicle. And even If I did, I only have less than 1.5yrs left on my lease -makes it a waste of time and money... and furthermore, this system -if it were to perform how it was advertised to - which is one of the selling points when I first got the G... then upgrading shouldn't be necessary. --- --- But yesterday, I made a break-thru! --- for my needs* -anyways... YES, breakthru for my needs - I have found a way to ease the high-mids of this system. ... I put a dampener on the 3" mids in the front... just those non-slider dash -rubber things.... .. .and this seems to help the sound -very much.ps..I did try the eq /fader etc... and this helps the most.

Peace L

[lucidd]

As much as I respect some of the car-auto reviewers... they don't always give a comparitive point of view - especially on these types of reviews.Sometimes, they'd give viable - type A versus type B analysis - only when it is a comparison test. These aren't.Anyways... here's some oposing expert / opinion / info: yes, it does exist.

http://www.audioworld.com/news...shtml::: ELS Surround vs. Bose (Cadillac CTS): 360 of 400 participants preferred ELS (89.8%)

http://www.laaudiofile.com/newcar.html:::What's Not On The List There are a number of factory audio systems that have good sound but didn't quite make the grade to be considered among the best. These include a few sports cars with great audio gear. However, their cabins tend to be significantly noisier than the best luxury cars. This resulted in a downgrade of their total system. In addition, there are the myriad of Bose systems offered in many cars. As good as they are, we find that the Bose systems we've heard impart a sonic signature that seems to emphasize the bass and a bit of the treble - not unlike a loudness contour. Attempts to mitigate the signature with tone controls were not entirely successful for us.

more to come... when I have more time to find the ones I've read in the past few months...

[pfarmer]

Maybe the engineer was light on the highs between 12-15 kHz and you want your HF drivers to make your ears bleed. No problem, adjust as necessary. You will not hear what the band/engineer heard in the recording studio control room or mastering house unless you own all the specific equipt. used in the exact same position they sat in the exact same room with the exact same SPL’s along with the identical EQ, Reverb, Pan settings etc….

'On the flip side, the speaker is to the end user. As we all know the flatter the PB freq.response the more accurate we hear what the band/producer/engineer intended.'

This is what I was responding to. Like a film a producer intends to bring out certain aspects as he sees it, for audio they must do the same. The point is that to really hear it like he wants us to hear it that it needs to be delivered as such. While this could actually be done the problem would be that the music would have to be tailored. Over the years I have had a hearing test once per year for 35 years. Most of my co-workers have had the same tests (although for fewer years) but with similar issues, hearing damage occurs in all age groups not just the elderly. With an equalizer that one could set to match their hearing it would be possible to come close to replicating the music as it was intended.

In the case of the Infiniti Bose that is one area that there really is a limitation. My belief is the system does well in replicating what is on the recording but doesn't necessarily allow one to replicate how it was intended. But then few other OEM systems do either.

Perry

[pfarmer]

Let's be constructive.In my case, I don't really like upgrading things in a LEASE vehicle. And even If I did, I only have less than 1.5yrs left on my lease -makes it a waste of time and money... and furthermore, this system -if it were to perform how it was advertised to - which is one of the selling points when I first got the G... then upgrading shouldn't be necessary.

Peace L

Of course that is an issue with a leased vehicle. As far as performing as advertised, well I believe it does and so do enough others that it continues to sell as such so upgrading is not necessary unless you want to change it from its advertised reference.

Perry

[pfarmer]

As much as I respect some of the car-auto reviewers... they don't always give a comparitive point of view - especially on these types of reviews.Sometimes, they'd give viable - type A versus type B analysis - only when it is a comparison test. These aren't.Anyways... here's some oposing expert / opinion / info: yes, it does exist.

http://www.audioworld.com/news...shtml::: ELS Surround vs. Bose (Cadillac CTS): 360 of 400 participants preferred ELS (89.8%)

So side by side which do you like better Pepsi or Coke? The real test is to test the system using a standard reference and proper test equipment. This would tell you if the system is accurate in its reproduction of the source, but not if you will like it.

Perry

[Tsunami_Dan]

OK, I know I'm a new guy here... but.

$40k for a new car and you keep a stock stereo???

Check your priorities! Especially if sound is important to you.

Here is the mandatory steps as I see it.

1: Buy car you like based on the car...2: Tint Windows on way home.3: Set appointment for stereo.4: Do not post about short comings of a FACTORY STEREO.

This is not meant to be a flame but I simply do not understand the gripe.When I buy bread I do not complain about the lack of meat on the sandwich.

I BUY MEAT.

That is all.New guy sounding off.

TD

[pfarmer]

OK, I know I'm a new guy here... but.

$40k for a new car and you keep a stock stereo???

Check your priorities! Especially if sound is important to you.

Here is the mandatory steps as I see it.

1: Buy car you like based on the car...2: Tint Windows on way home.3: Set appointment for stereo.4: Do not post about short comings of a FACTORY STEREO.

This is not meant to be a flame but I simply do not understand the gripe.When I buy bread I do not complain about the lack of meat on the sandwich.

I BUY MEAT.

That is all.New guy sounding off.

TD

The issue I see with this is how integrated it is into the system. The rest is it depends if you actually like the stock stereo.

What I would consider is to upgrade the amp and the speakers and keep the head unit. Or buy the base unit and go with a carputer (keep in mind that the stock display is used for a bunch of other things than stereo). In this case you probably keep the base unit and bring the carputer into the system instead of the other way around.

It is just not as easy as plugging in a double din unit which I wish it was.

Perry

[Tsunami_Dan]

The issue I see with this is how integrated it is into the system. The rest is it depends if you actually like the stock stereo.

It is just not as easy as plugging in a double din unit which I wish it was.

Perry

My guy had no issues with upgrading it... Two subs in boxes in back and tweets in pillars with two amps..

Current head unit lit up like a flash grenade in a bat cave; both in clarity and range.

The only point I was making was if someone wanted the best sound in a luxury sports car... they shouldn't rely on the auto factory to provide it.

I digress.

TD


Modified by Tsunami_Dan at 4:16 PM 8/18/2009

[lucidd]

OK, I know I'm a new guy here... but.

$40k for a new car and you keep a stock stereo???

Check your priorities! Especially if sound is important to you.

Here is the mandatory steps as I see it.

1: Buy car you like based on the car...2: Tint Windows on way home.3: Set appointment for stereo.4: Do not post about short comings of a FACTORY STEREO.

This is not meant to be a flame but I simply do not understand the gripe.When I buy bread I do not complain about the lack of meat on the sandwich.

I BUY MEAT.

That is all.New guy sounding off.

TD

Welcome to NICO:) Though I'm sorta new too:P

But spend $40k on a car - and change everything out?? - HMM.... obviously we are different types of customers.I lease my vehicle for work use - travel quite a bit... and when lease is done. I'm giving it back to get a new one.All my upgrades will be garbaged.

Now here's the other thing - Keep in mind , when I got the car, ... Info from Infiniti Bose was that this system is audiophile quality sounding. ... So I got this car believing that.-my bad... or my expectations are too high-my bad.

LOL... and buy bread - then complaining that there's no meat ---lmao. Like I said, the car -Infiniti,bose advertised a "great" audiophile quality sound system. - So it advertised a car [bread]- that comes with MEAT ["great"sound system] !!!

hOPE this makes sense.

[lucidd]

I guess I forgot to mention- I have a buddy that has a car audio shop locally, and in the prev car I owned, he put in dec and speakers, + a kicker sub:comp vr with potted box- which sounded awesome, and when I sold the car, the sub migrated to my G. Bass, I've got plenty of--- just the sound clarity is in question.

Anyways, I'm no longer interested in doing multiple upgrades to my lease car. With that said, the Acura els surround, HK logic7, b&o systems in audis and M&L systems in lexus- sound great compared to this Bose system- IMO

[Tsunami_Dan]

It's all good and all relative.

I have NEVER been happy with a factory sound system and much of my equipment is transferred from my Lexus into this.

IMHO... Bose nameplate is simply an over sold item. Expectations are high and selling points are higher.

Nice sound...?Yes.

Audiophiles' dream?Hardly.

Nonetheless...If you like it going in... YIPPEEE ~GO YOU!

If you don't...Simply spend $2k on an upgrade you can swap out when done from lease to lease.

You win!

Then you never are forced to make a decission based on an "option" but on the machine itself.

Again... my humble opinion.

However, I have been married twice... so I am sure I am not correct.

Heck... If memory serves, global warming is my fault too.

Just sharing opinions but I like all the choices that are being thrown around.

I also own a TL and a Vette.... *Neither with factory stereo...

[pfarmer]

My guy had no issues with upgrading it... Two subs in boxes in back and tweets in pillars with two amps..

Current head unit lit up like a flash grenade in a bat cave; both in clarity and range.

The only point I was making was if someone wanted the best sound in a luxury sports car... they shouldn't rely on the auto factory to provide it.

I digress.

TD

Modified by Tsunami_Dan at 4:16 PM 8/18/2009

The key word in your post is 'best'. There always are ways to improve what comes stock towards what is 'best'. The amps and other speakers would be the direction I would travel with a possible addition of new speakers on the center console. One thing to remember with the stock unit is that outputs coming into thw stock amp are balanced with 1 volt in both directions.

Perry

[Tsunami_Dan]

That's where I leave it to my "guy"He knows what I like in sound..& He delivered in the G...

Just came back from a loooooong drive. I am blown away with the factory head units performance... Brilliant sound with just a few tweaks and adds.

This car quickly moved up to my favorite ride in the garage.

Go G!

TD

[pfarmer]

I guess I forgot to mention- I have a buddy that has a car audio shop locally, and in the prev car I owned, he put in dec and speakers, + a kicker sub:comp vr with potted box- which sounded awesome, and when I sold the car, the sub migrated to my G. Bass, I've got plenty of--- just the sound clarity is in question.

Anyways, I'm no longer interested in doing multiple upgrades to my lease car. With that said, the Acura els surround, HK logic7, b&o systems in audis and M&L systems in lexus- sound great compared to this Bose system- IMO

So how is the sub connected to the 'G's sound system?

Perry

[Tsunami_Dan]

So how is the sub connected to the 'G's sound system?

Perry

Stereo Specialties in Spring Hill Fl would have to answer that for you.

They handle all my equipment.

As I stated... I trust them with what they know best.

I simply pay and drive.

Unless it's my Harley... then we can discuss every bolt..

TD

[lucidd]

have question for you re your g37s--- I've got the similar g35s-2007... I've also driven a TL, and wife's got the new tsx. My G seems to be really rough* riding compared to these other cars. I do love and appreciate the handling- do you find the same?

And yes, my guy from SoundWorks will tell how he installed the sub- exactly... But- I THINK it is put in with splitting rear stock sub's feed, (high level input?) into my Rockford Fosgate mono 200m-amp with a kicker comp vr 10" sub- with ported box
Modified by lucidd at 3:24 PM 8/19/2009

[pfarmer]

I'm very curious about this statement. I have repaired just about every type of audio device on the face of this planet both consumer and professional as well as Bose professional audio products. Are you stating the that low level output from the head unit to the input(s) of the amplifier(s) is a balanced signal vs unbalanced? If so, how does the 1 volt in a bi directional state come into play. Is is AC/DC voltage? Where did you hear / read this info. The last time I remember and correct me if I'm wrong, in the analog world, balanced audio uses two signals with opposite polarity (differential mode) and a ground and is usually low impedance. Unbalanced is usually high impedance with just the signal and ground. These uni directional low level signals are A/C content usually in the mV range.

All you need to do is go to the FSM. The audio signals to the amp is +1v to -1v, actually fairly common.

Perry

[pfarmer]

Stereo Specialties in Spring Hill Fl would have to answer that for you.

They handle all my equipment.

As I stated... I trust them with what they know best.

I simply pay and drive.

Unless it's my Harley... then we can discuss every bolt..

TD

Question was not directed towards your modifications but toward lucidd who now states he had a sub installed in the stock system which no longer really means it is still stock.

Perry

[lucidd]

Well... To be clear, yes, I do have a sub10 added. This should be no surprise to you... As mentioned in my prev g-general-discussions- a month back or so, which you have been very active in (you know, the topic that we started talking about the pigfarm in coquitlam)... Topic name: "OMG...Infiniti studio on wheels, Bose"...

I've mentioned my sub setup numerous times.

No longer stock? --- hmmm sounds like a response from Bmw (or any car co) whenyou bring it back for service/waranty work- LOL

[pfarmer]

Well... To be clear, yes, I do have a sub10 added. This should be no surprise to you... As mentioned in my prev g-general-discussions- a month back or so, which you have been very active in (you know, the topic that we started talking about the pigfarm in coquitlam)... Topic name: "OMG...Infiniti studio on wheels, Bose"...

I've mentioned my sub setup numerous times.

No longer stock? --- hmmm sounds like a response from Bmw (or any car co) whenyou bring it back for service/waranty work- LOL

Well you didn't state how it was installed which is what my question was and it could matter.

Perry