Gentlemen, we've done the impossible (Q45 supercharger group buy!!)

[dgoodno]

dkill,

I'm confused with the numbers as might other readers, so it may help to go over them again. In the post to AZ his guy wrote, "Basically it would entail having a mold made for the plumbing unit (aprox $1500) and if you can find investors, lets say 3 then that cost would be $500. The cost of actually making units once the mold has been made is literally the cost of the raw metal and labor fees the shop would incur to cast each unit. Once that’s done you would need a reprogrammed ECU which I’m sure JWT would be happy to oblige at the cost of their regular ECU programs if they were to receive multiple orders at around $700? And last but not least the actual blower which is an Eaton M90, The blower is probably one of the most common of all time and was included in a number of production supercharged vehicles including the supercharged Ford Thunderbird. I have seen Eaton M90’s on ebay routinely for under $250 used but in good condition. Out the door you can probably have yourself a supercharged Q45 if you can find a few folks that are interested in doing it with you for about $1500 or possibly even less."

So how do we get to $3,500 not including the ECU?

[1qckser]

So does the $3500 include the new intake manifold? and doe sthis kit use the stock 370cc injectors and fuel pump?:)

[dgoodno]

Dkill,

No question that I'm interested. :ylsuper

Give me a couple days and I can give you a definite nod. It's not the money, I'm already pouring that into the vehicle, it's installing it and making the other modifications. I have to make sure that Tony is willing to do this and see if he has any concerns.

I do think my application is vastly different, but with all the good advice that I've gotten on cooling, maybe this will work. :thinker

[Metroyed]

I drive a J30, i have no hope for a supercharger. For my sake, PLEASE do this, if only so i can see pics and brag to my friends about how powerful Infiniti's can be.

LOL, so there's my worthless moral support. It's easy when im not spending the money.

[DAEDALUS]

I think there's a lot of interest. But this doesn't exactly come with a how-to manual for installation. There must be a some fab and modifications involved. And $3500 is just the start. There's still the ECU and the Level 10 transmission. How do we get our hands on the mule to take a few hundred pics?

[MetaOrbit]

I *think* 97+ Pontiac Grand Prix GTP's used the later generation Eaton M90 blowers. And I know for a fact back from my W-Body days that the pulleys on those can be swapped. Might be something to look into...

[elwesso]

Depending on my finances I would be in..... I wouldnt bank on me though.....

I could do a supercharger writeup on my website!!

[AZhitman]

I'm not certain the transmission is a necessity.

The stock unit should be capable of handling another 70 hp, we should look into the weak points and perhaps have someone put together a kit to upgrade...

[AZhitman]

AZ is a genius.

Far from it - I'm an idjit with some ideas....

...and a SUPERCHARGER PRETTY SOON MUAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

[HeavyDuty]

These were provided by Thomas Knight, the maker of the original Q45 B.A.D supercharged prototype.

We use a simple FMU with the stock injectors. The fuel control or JWT ECU, gauges, etc would be the responsibility of the buyers.

Sounds like you're off to a good start! Two questions:

1) I'm still curious about the BAD car, what did they run into with their install/tuning/drivability, etc? Or did it just get shelved?

2) Not sure why you'd want/need an FMU if you have a JWT boost program. They're less than $600, FWIW.

[AZhitman]

1) BAD car's owner is one of the busiest people in the world...

Psychiatrist trying to run a large (and expanding) behavioral health network as well as doing speaking engagements and other stuff.

[Nathan]

I too have driven an XJR, fun car but ya'lls Q's would be better Not to mention you dont have the Nazi like traction control of the XJR there trying to kill the fun.

[PalmerWMD]

Hmmm,

I should probably get in, but that would put my car buying plans (S13 or S14 w/SR) on hold.

I guess with a full level ten and battery already in trunk I should be ok.

But why did he see 178 whp before SC?A properly running 92 should run approx 228-230 (non JWT ecu) to 240 ( JWt ecu) at the wheels.

My old 91 did 238 whp with JWT and dirty plenum and slightly rough idle which means it wasnt running perfect ( It did run perfect, 8 months later when I crashed it tho).

Fred..

[PalmerWMD]

If I dont buy one of the other cars I am curently looking at, I am probably in.I will let everyone know for sure in 2 weeks, when I am back home and have time to sort some stuff out.

Fred..

[PalmerWMD]

Alcon:

1) this thread deserves to be a sticky, until we get enough PPL, and so it will be..:angel

2) Not much discernible difference really, maybe a bit firmer if that , but certainly is supposed to be more tolerant of high hp abuse . This transmission has seen multiple quarter mile runs on it when this Q was running at approx 500-550 hp (this is also a B.A.D. prototype).

3) The stock transmission is a lot stronger than many PPL think.Failures are due almost exclusievly from overheats & worn ATF fluid.Both are <easy> fixes, also a transmission cooler is $60.

4)Good job dkill.

5) Someone reseach the JWT chip a bit, or better email NICO member aaacomp, he has done successful chips for NICO members before, at a fraction of the JWT price.It'll be new programming for him on this but if a few of us order...who knows...

6) In 2 weeks I will know if I am in and when I decide, a deposit can go out same day.

Fred...

[PalmerWMD]

As long as we are on this subject.

Someone recently told me ( I forgot who) that the stock Q45 ECU can manage the additonal air/fuel flow just fine.

Anyone know anything about this?

Fred...

[elwesso]

I guess we could always hook it up and drive it for a while and if we need a reprogram that would be easy enough.....

[AZhitman]

I'm in as well. I already *have* the SC, just need the plumbing and install...

[HeavyDuty]

As long as we are on this subject.

Someone recently told me ( I forgot who) that the stock Q45 ECU can manage the additonal air/fuel flow just fine.

Anyone know anything about this?

Fred...

IMHE, a less sophisticated system utilizing speed density mangement can easily be tricked into running a stock ecu program by tricking the map sensor with a bleeder valve or electronic signal modifier, an fmu & moderate ignition timing retard either manually or through the use of a boost sensitive timing control that retards x timing per 1 psi/boost.

A mass air system is a blessing and a curse in that it has the capability to manage more complex operations such as boost but has to be programmed accordingly.

OTOH, since this oe ecu system has been proven to be both rich in fuel and conservative in timing, an argument could be made that it could manage a modest amount of boost (6 psi) with manually set low range (15deg +/- 2 = 13 deg initial or less depending on octane & environment) timing and work in a draw through configuration as opposed to a blow through maf type setup, which I despise on a street car.

Admitted JWT lover that I am, I would opt for a boost program hands down. I have seen many dyno charts with a/f overlay utilizing their ecu's and can tell you the ign maps & a/f curve is always <spot on> for take-it-to-the-grocery-store or take-it-to-the-track reliability.

Talking/thinking/typing out loud, not to be construed as a be-all know-all answer,

[elwesso]

I think a boost program might be in order.. having it run rich and retarded all the time would KILL gas mileage..... I would like to keep about the same amount of gas mileage when im just poopin around town (and I dont think thats too much to ask)

[Q45Viper]

I'm also very interested, but only if we know the other pieces necessary are available. ECU, manifold and pulleys etc. I would not be interested in buying one of these and then sorting out what's needed later. I'm not saying that someone has to provide me a full kit, only the knowledge that the parts ARE available and what those parts are. I would also want to know the amount of labor involved. For example what has to come off the car etc. It does sound like a pretty good deal and I know a tuner in the Baltimore area who can do the install. He has already developed a nationwide rep doing Vipers after developing his own kit. And I'm still a little confused about how much more rear wheel HP this might give us without running a level of boost that will kill the engine. And I would love to hear old Q45 Tech chime in and either give us his blessing or warn us off!

[QShip]

Quote »If you guys are skeptical, that's fine... I'm doing this with or without you.. You can continue to ask questions, and before the year is out you will see my blown Q on here.. then you're questions don't seem so valid.. [/quote]We're skeptical because we were offered three stages of this s/c a few years ago. As a matter of fact, B.A.D. offered an 800 hp version of the s/c.

We have heard rumors of said supercharger for years. Nothing has yet come to pass.

[elwesso]

Dont think that Q45tech doesnt like anything thats not stock...

He's a friggen engineer, he's not gonna tell you that big brakes wont make the car stop faster...

If you want to talk about someone who obsesses with keeping a car stock and no mods whatsoever, I know your guy....

I just read through the hi power VH45 in the engineering forum, and its good reading... He says that 6psi of boost wont hurt anything.....

I would however be interested in hearing his input.....

[QShip]

There's only one s/c Q that is widely recognized as working, and it belongs to AGM.

[AZhitman]

Enough.

Let me clear up a couple things: First off, there will be NO fighting over this thing. It's a stupid thing to fight about. dkill, chill - no one here is doubting you, there IS a history of promises and disappointments.

Second, the BAD Q ran an Eaton S/C. It was functional, and was assembled and disassembled dozens of times for tuning and changes. It remains diassembled today.

More later- gotta run.

[AGM]

dkill,

I am glad that my reccomendation to contact Thomas Knight has given you some direction. I assume that Rex's car is still still complete. Are you able to drive it?

In respect to the OEM transmission. It was Ok at 6psi with a Centrifugal Charger. As soon as I bumped up the boost pass this (only with intercooling), the transmission really struggled. 6psi with a positive displacement blower on the stock oem transmission may be borderline.

As with any modification, the only way to find out is to try it out and see. Just keep in mind you may need a level 10 rebuild to get the most out of a positive displacement supercharger.

I would reccommend that you get Geoff Knight to contact Stefan at Laminova, in respect to incorporating Laminova intercooler cores into the intake manifold. Even though you probably can get away without intercooling at 6psi, it may be worth getting Geoff to make up a prototype that will take the cores at a late date, if need be. It would be a lot cheaper to design an intake manifold first off that can take Laminova cores, than to have to redo it later.

Hope this is of help.

Regards

AGM

[AZhitman]

Great info Ash.

The BAD Q is not currently running.

[sultan]

woah, http://www.laminova.se , this looks pretty cool. i would like to know how much more an intercooled setup would be.

there may be another transmission option, it still would be expensive, but some maxima guys (they don't like level10, i don't know why) have used Rob at NRH transmission in jessup (i think) maryland for beefed up autos. apparently he can do custom ratios, kevlar bands, valve body mods and balancing of internal components among other things. i would assume he also can do RWD boxes. a local guy will be getting his back pretty soon for his 5th gen max, i will find out how it goes.

[AZhitman]

I'm just gonna have a spare standing by (or two).

[dgoodno]

Dkill,

What are the numbers? How many committed and how many maybes? I am still on the fence because of my specific on-track application. Is anyone else using their Q in races?

Besides the fact that I am already on my second rebuild with less then 5,000 miles, I have to consider the added stress on the engine, that is unique to my application. Also, I am assuming we are introducing a capability for extreme oversteer.