Gentlemen, we've done the impossible (Q45 supercharger group buy!!)

[AZhitman]

I am still on the fence because of my specific on-track application. Is anyone else using their Q in races?

Wonder if my one-hour-to-Flagstaff blasts (averaging 100 mph) count?

[dgoodno]

Sorry AZ, but no. :icesangel

Now if there were a lot of sharp curves . . . :ylsuper

P.S. Are you a highway patrolman -- or your uncle a judge?

[QShip]

I apologize to the board for my remarks. They were of no use to the board.

Dkill, I really like your enthusiasm for the s/c and I want to see it come to fruition. I sincerely hope that with this s/c it, we will be able to beat the crap out of the M5's.

[Tgvince]

Hey Gang,I can put together an in tank fuel pump kit if it looks like the stocker cant hang. In another thread i posted about putting one together for the 97+. AZ Hitman could proto it on his car:).

Terryhttp://www.ftfmotorsports.com

[PalmerWMD]

Keep it going gang!

We cant let this one die.

It will happen.

Fred...

[elwesso]

Id still like to know...

Is this a one time deal, or can some people (me) wait until this first batch is made, developed, tested, and run, and then get 3-5 more people to get it????

[AGM]

Hope this is of help.

I am a firm believer in intercooling being an essential component to assist with reliability in a daily driver Supercharged car. I would go for the laminova cores built into the intake manifold. If you look at the one done for the 2001 Q45 it did not apear to raise the deck height. With an Autorotor it all fitted under the bonnet. Just a thought. Is the Autorotor (division of Opcon/Laminova that make the intercooler cores) lower in height than the Eaton.

For something really radical that I started exploring with Geoff Knight, go for two smaller eatons, one for each bank. It will bring on the boost quicker and I assume will have a lower deck height.A Twin Supercharged Q45 would look pretty trick, but probably cost to much $$$$.

You don't need a bigger fuel pump, just run the pump faster. I am piggybacking the fuel pump control unit so that it pumps more. ie run the variable speed fuel pump at higher settings.

The exhaust/headers Geoff is referring to are the ones I had built by exhaust Dynamics here in Australia.

Regards

AGM

[AZhitman]

MMMmmmm. This is sounding tasty!

I might be satisfied with 3-4 psi.

I've always thought the Q would look EVIL with a cowl induction hood.

[HeavyDuty]

Here is the response I got back from Thomas

Ryan, It was 229 wheel hp, and 4 psi raised it to 280 wheel hp with no ECU mods at all. Just a simple FMU. The Q would go sideways at launch, giving wheelspin a whole new meaning--at only 4 psi!! Then JWT changed the ECU to more favorable curves and an exhaust was added. This resulted in 320 wheel hp @ 4 psi.

Sounds like reasonable numbers comparing gains yielded from a 100 shot (MAF voltage & injector duty cycle) to 4psi & an FMU with stock ECU.

Interesting.

[Tgvince]

You don't need a bigger fuel pump, just run the pump faster. I am piggybacking the fuel pump control unit so that it pumps more. ie run the variable speed fuel pump at higher settings.

AGM

No to be arguementative, Im curious what you mean by runnng the Variable speed controller higher? I believe the unit runs at 12Vdc already at WOT. Doesnt it? Or do you mean you would just run the pump at 12Vdc all the time? Just jurious.

Terry

[PalmerWMD]

I think its best to have a uniform NICO solution.Not too wild not too slow.

maybe 5-6 psi set-up is the proper compromise.

Fred...

[PalmerWMD]

The IC will add come complexity in installation wont it?

So total extra likley more than $300 , also isnt the JWt ECU fora non IC set-up?

Fred..

[elwesso]

Wouldnt you be able to adjust the boost easy enough with different pulleys, maybe one thats 6psi and you could detune it to 3-4 if you wanted to.. ?

[HeavyDuty]

No to be arguementative, Im curious what you mean by runnng the Variable speed controller higher? I believe the unit runs at 12Vdc already at WOT. Doesnt it? Or do you mean you would just run the pump at 12Vdc all the time? Just jurious.Terry

Probably a setup like this, Terry.

http://www.kennebell.net/acces...p.htm

[elwesso]

It would always be possible to add an intercooler later... I say keep it simple, make sure that works and then go from there...

[HeavyDuty]

The IC will add come complexity in installation wont it?

So total extra likley more than $300 , also isnt the JWt ECU for a non IC set-up?

Fred..

Two good points, Fred. Yes, an aftercooler system typically runs $1000-1500 for the air/water core, reservoir, pump, front mount water cooler, plumbing and wiring, etc. I just finished a SR20DET in a G20 with a Vortech Integra <core> & 96-98 Mustang everything else. (Reservoir, pump, etc) Cost on that kit was $1300.

Since the MAF is measuring the amount of air being drawn in, the aftercooler shouldn't affect their (JWT) calibrations, but might affect the rising rate in an FMU (JWT-less), non-aftercooled-vs-aftercooled.

JWT doesn't ask that you specify inter/aftercooled on other apps, FWIW. Boost level aftercooled will be slightly lower on the cold side naturally, but it will yield more power. Same mass of air, but more dense. You might read 6psi at the head of the blower/turbo, but only 4.5-5 at the (lower) manifold, post-throttle body.

A good FMU can be adjusted to increase the rail pressure based on x psi/boost, usually in increments 2psi fuel per 1psi boost. 2:1, 4:1, 6:1, 8:1. 10:1, 12:1. FMU's are kind of crude by design. The problem you will likely experience is a rich situation at gear changes when the rpm of the charger slows (less boost) but the FMU doesn't get the memo to reduce pressure increase. That results in less net power until the blower regains peak boost again. Big time lag, yawn, like waiting for VTEC in the wrong gear. In other words, they're great on the way up, but don't adjust very well on the way down. You guys will be much happier with the all around performance of a boost program.

IF it is decided that you will go with an FMU anyway, pick a good one like the Comptech or Vortech Super FMU, they react more precisely to input up or down better than the Vortech standard, Jackson Racing, etc etc. One feature of those units (albeit maybe not a benefit in this app) is the ability to adjust the fuel pressure at idle, allowing you to run larger injectors without drowning the engine at idle due to the ECU not knowing you swapped in larger injectors & therefore the ECU not knowing to adjust the pulse width (time open) of the injectors as necessary. Again, probably not necessary on this particular app, but who knows?

Even though we've been discussing & I've read here an ECU isn't needed for 4 psi, personally I wouldn't do it. Besides, as Terry mentioned & I can unequivocally (sp?) confirm, boost is addictive. There's not a member here that wouldn't upgrade to the 6psi pulley & programming within six months, if not sooner, unless finances held them up.

If I may, make it a 4 or 6psi kit, with JWT management & be done with it. <When> you're ready to upgrade to 6 from 4, you've wisely built a foundation, pulleys/belts are cheap. Besides, when 6 becomes boring, you need only a RE-program by JWT (which is quick & cheap $100) to accomodate your 42, 50 or 72lb injectors.

[AGM]

Terry,

The pump speed is still variable, not flat out all the time.Just the settings are stepped up above the OEM settings.

Regards

AGM

[HeavyDuty]

dkill,

If I may, detailed pics or even detailed drawings would further your cause from the point you are now.

Your post about piping is probably confusing, it is to me.

[HeavyDuty]

dkill, I'm trying to help you buddy.

I read his post about the I/C core sizing & he/we/you/ are talking about water/air, a tiny radiator with cool water running through it under the Eaton. "piping" lends itself to air/air setups, unless the water lines are being called "piping".

[AGM]

dkill,

I am talking about the cores being incorprated in the manifold itself, not just added to it.

For a picture of exactly what I am talking about see the intake manifold with Laminova cores and and Opcon Autorotor on the Keuylian 2002/2003 Supercahrged Q45 thread.

Get a manifold that will intergrate an intercooler set up now, it will save you having to redo it later.

I still think this is the best option, as it will all fit under the bonnet.

Are there any difference in a VH45DE and VK45DE intake manifold?It would be great if they were the same so this one will just bolt on.

It may be worth seeing if Keuylian will supply the manifold (with intercooler built in) to Thomas Knight.

The contact point at Keuylian is Courtney.

Regards

AGM

[AZhitman]

I think the manifolds are very different between the VH and VK.

[elwesso]

Or he lives in this country!!

[Tgvince]

Probably a setup like this, Terry.

http://www.kennebell.net/acces...p.htm

Well i hope its less expensive than that cause i can put together a kit with a *NEW* pump for about half of that.

Terry

[HeavyDuty]

What's the flow rate on the stock Q pump anyway?

[1qckser]

255 GPH if im not mistaken:)

[Tgvince]

255 GPH if im not mistaken:)

If it is indeed 255Gph and not 255lph then its more than enough pump.

Terry

[HeavyDuty]

If it is indeed 255Gph and not 255lph then its more than enough pump.

Terry

Yeah, Good Lord, if that's correct, it would make sense why Infiniti used a variable voltage system to begin with.

Quick bit of useless info:

The Space Shuttle fuel pump is the size of a refrigerator & can pump a column (I forget the diameter) of liquid nitrogen 30 miles into the air.

[1qckser]

Im sorry, it was late when I typed that it was 255 gph:( It is 255 lph, sorry guys I stand corrected.

[PalmerWMD]

255 lph is still plenty for any reasonable application.This is what many SR guys upgrade <to>.

I am pretty sure this will go ahead when I am back I still start some emailing and stuff for some hard "for sure" guys to be in.

We will make 5 easy, I reiterate that it seem th 6 psi set-up is teh ebst allaround compromise and can serve as a basis for a uniform solution.

VH engines are strong..... VQ30, which are much weaker design, can (properly tuned) handle 8 psi as a daily driver.

Fred...

[AZhitman]

The Space Shuttle fuel pump is the size of a refrigerator & can pump a column (I forget the diameter) of liquid nitrogen 30 miles into the air.

WOW!

Is LN heavier or lighter than H2O?