For all of you gun nuts...

[Cold_Zero]

Vicki-For once I agree with you. Mark this day down on a calander. lolbud

[The Mic]

Its about the RIGHT to revolt if your government takes away your other RIGHTS.

please elaborate

[vicki]

Vicki-For once I agree with you. Mark this day down on a calander. lolbud

*chuckles

I may be a liberal, but I'm not unreasonable and senseless.

[vicki]

please elaborate

Should the government become corrupt and begin oppressing the people, they should have the right to fight back and rebel, if it comes down to it. Can't do that if the constitution is ammended to rid the right to bear arms.

I think that's essentially what he's trying to say.
Modified by vicki at 1:06 AM 9/14/2004

[Cold_Zero]

"Hey, we all love guns, but lets admit the framers had in mind miltias with muskets, not urban gangs with machine pistols. And besides, I just got shot."

nice joke made i =P

I guess the states would disagree with you.Indiana State Constitution:Section 32. Arms--Right to bearSection 32. The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.

And yes, Militias (I am not talking about the National Guard) are legal in the state of Indiana.

[Onizuka]

please elaborate

Ok I worded that wrong. If there is ever a need for the public to fight, which can happen and has happened throughout human history, what will we fight with if guns are banned?

[Cold_Zero]

The constitution is outdated. If things never changed, we would all be on horseback and taking a crap in the outhouse. The the law was understandable. Shotting someone was common. Now, Its wrong. If we can evolve as a people, why cant our society along with it? You do have the right to bear arms, but it doesnt state habdguns. Back then handguns were a luxury, most people had rifles. You can have all of the rifles you want.

#1. The Constitution (the cornor stone of our freedom) is not outdated. I agree that things need to be changed and our political system affords us to do so.#2. Murdering people has never been excusable by law. This is not a matter of "We are better people than the people that founded this country." #3. The 2nd Amendement does not establish the right to bear arms (FIREARMS) and does not deliniate between what is protected by the Constiution whether it be a Rilfle, Pistol or Bazooka. It has always been a God given right for Americans to possess firearms. #4. In some states you can not own as many rifles as you want. Indiana is not one of them.

I understand that we can not live in the post Colonial period of this country's history. But changing the Constitution radically because of other people's agenda's and political ideology is a very slippery slope. I use as an example the Prohibition period.bud

[silencer.1]

"Guns don't kill people. People kill people."

It's an old cliche but it still stands true. In crime, a gun is a tool same as a knife or other object used to kill/injure a person. You can't honestly expect to reduce crime simply by limiting guns. The only way to limit crime is to teach children proper values at a young age and create a home environment that allows people to feel happy about themselves. Happy people don't commit homicide. Blame lack of values and a system of education that sets people up to fail, not firearms.

While I can see the reasoning behind banning flash suppressors, hi-cap mag and full auto weapons, I don't think it should be done. If I want to hunt with a full auto rifle with a flash suppressor and a 30 rnd mag, I should be able to. Is it stupid? Hell yes, I personally think there is no sport in that and 30rnds in a deer is going to make it take like crap. Again it come back to values and proper ideals.

I do agree with limiting fully automatic capabilities though. I see no need for it in any type of morden environment. We are not at war with any nearby country so it's not like you need it for anything. If you are a bad shot at 15ft when defending your home, 30 bullets isn't going to help a whole lot.

Handguns are also not a bad thing. They are a great hobby and when a person is properly trained in it's use, they can be a great tool for personal defense. To quote another overly used phrase, "How many thieves want to rob a person if they know that any one person could be carrying a handgun?" To put one's life on the line for a wallet is stupid and no reasonable person would do it.

[The Mic]

ah. ty for clarfying guys

edit: heres an interesting link http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/...nt02/

[vicki]

Just in case anyone cares to see who voted for what:

http://www.senate.gov/legislat...7#top

[Onizuka]

Thats a link to the votes concerning armor peircing bullets. Copied wrong address perhaps?

[willswimforfood]

< is pro-gun.

[vicki]

Thats a link to the votes concerning armor peircing bullets. Copied wrong address perhaps?

Haha whoops. I had two of them opened and they all look the same. Lemme find the other one...

[Cold_Zero]

I was going to say, a Yea vote to an Amendemnt to Senate Bill 1805 that was defeated.

Vicki what bill were you going to post up? I didnt think that Senate Bill 2498 had been voted on yet. 1034 and 2109 are both in the Committee on the Judiciary.

[Cold_Zero]

Oh and by the way.Senate Bill 1428/House 339 "The Cheeseburger Bill". Yes, we have legislation on the docet for the 108th Congress to legislate on Obesity Lawsuits. What kind of world do we live in?

I just got home from a "Sunset" party at Pop Guns to celebrate the end to the Ban. Shot off a few rounds of ammo to celebrate.bud

[StrangeLove]

The 2 amendment is not about "shooting people". Its about your RIGHT to protect yourself and your family if you feel the need to have that protection.

The right to bare arms... Hmmmm... a nuclear missle is a type of arm...

I have the right to protect my property with a nuclear missle? Sweet...

Are you more likely to die from a gunshot wound or a knife wound? Are kids more likely to accidently stab themselves when playing with a knife? When was the last time a kid killed himself with a bat? You can really hold off a squad of police officers with a knife...

Well this thread basically follows the theme of "Times change people don't"Kinda sad that in the modern era we can't be alittle more civilized...

Also, when was the last time your house got attacked and you needed your trusty gun to kill the attacker? Never happened to me...

(I own a shotgun, and a .22 rifle)

[StrangeLove]

Here is a Story everyone will love!

In my town there is a car meet every friday and saturday nights. Well, this last one there was a fight, and my friend greg broke it up. It was like 15 asians (If i offend anyone, suck it up and get a helmet) vs 1 other guy. Well later one of the asian guys pulls out a .22 pistol and started shooting greg's 240, AND his fiance was in the passenger seat!

Now wasn't that a great story!

I could just imagine that guy walking up to greg's car and stabbing it...

[gabossie]

I could just imagine that guy walking up to greg's car and stabbing it...

[Cold_Zero]

You are more likely to die from a car than a gun. Yet, you dont see people running around trying to ban the 3,000 lb death machines. Why is that? A video of a high speed chase, crash and attempted car jacking in Indianapolis today. http://www.theindychannel.com/....htmlOne of the reasons why I carry my 357 magnum.

Btw-Did you have a point to your second post? Did the kid get arrested? Did you buddy pull out his Springfield and plug the guy for shooting at his Fiance? What happened?

[Mr1der]

anybody care to take a guess which state has the lowest crime rate?

who wants to guess what country saw the biggest increase in violent crimes in the past few years?

The assualt rifle bill stopped the import of rifles with the "4 evils" (flash suppressor, hi cap mag, bayonet lug and pistol grip)

we still have the AR made legally and american receiver guns built with foreign parts kits (the gun sans the actual part of the rifle that holds everything together so to speak).

The ban was really pretty stupid...

a ban on pistols would be retarded being as it's the primary defensive weapon you'll see. I damn sure don't want to learn to throw a knife to defend myself from criminals carrying the illegal handguns. You can't pick up a spent bullet and use it on someone with great effect...

[Cold_Zero]

i know that the law didnt do jack, Im just starting a thread.

Im more liking the laws that are established in England, where handguns are totally illegal.

Get a better hobby. period.

http://nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=81810&page=2

"She had a crush on me and because I wouldnt talk to her (I was 17) she tried to get me in trouble. Dude, I almost murdered the skank. Went straight to her mom, told her that the whore was lying and she confronted the little slut. ""Lets just say the Bctih in training got such a backhand that I felt it. If it wouldve gone to the cops.... I wouldve Stepped on her head. Nuff said. I will NOT get blamed for something I didnt do."

You sound like a very peaceful guy 180. Maybe we have the ability to defend ourselves in this country with handguns, is because of violent people like you.

[180crafter]

The right to bare arms... Hmmmm... a nuclear missle is a type of arm...

I have the right to protect my property with a nuclear missle? Sweet...

Are you more likely to die from a gunshot wound or a knife wound? Are kids more likely to accidently stab themselves when playing with a knife? When was the last time a kid killed himself with a bat? You can really hold off a squad of police officers with a knife...

Well this thread basically follows the theme of "Times change people don't"Kinda sad that in the modern era we can't be alittle more civilized...

Also, when was the last time your house got attacked and you needed your trusty gun to kill the attacker? Never happened to me...

(I own a shotgun, and a .22 rifle)

Thank you....

My sentiments exactly.

You sound like a very peaceful guy 180. Maybe we have the ability to defend ourselves in this country with handguns, is because of violent people like you.

But if I had a handgun do you think I woulve shot her? Please.

My anger only went as far as this post. I didnt do anything to her and she is fine. I didnt even yell at the cvnt. What if she had a gun and decided that if she couldnt have me to kill me? She couldnt do the same with a shotty or a Knife.....

PLease. I am angry. Angry at ignorance. Not ignorance, stupidity.

If the environmentalists had it their way, you wouldnt even OWN a car, you'de be riding an electric public bus everywhere. Same thing with the gun control people. Double standard.

I wouldnt mind. If it got to the point where 46% of the people that own cars purposely run over and hurt/kill another family member or themselves, I would do it. It is not a double standard. What purpose does a gun have? A hobby? Fkn please. Defense? Against someone with a handgun? Can you ride it to work? Nuff said.

I couldnt find who said it, but I did read somewhere someone say that if there was no guns how would you defend yourself against an attacker with an illegal handgun?

Most handguns used in a crime are guns that were registered to someone else and stolen from their home/vehicle. If you didnt have a gun, they wouldnt get one (for the most part) and that would be it.

I hate that I can only do it at work. Then I have to combat everyone that has written something. I am glad some people feel the same way I do, and I am glad that some people are willing to hear me, even if they dont agree.

For those of you that disagree with me, shut up or I'll bust a cap in your azz.

And I am sorry to bust the history buffs bubble, but the constituion is largely outdated.... If not ammendments would not exist. Americans have made it more than whatit is, which is a guideline that we should use to lead our lives. It is not meant to be used word for word for all eternity.

And the Argument that says that people should be educated not the guns removed, eat one. We both know that people as a whole are ridiculous stubborn creatures filled with stupidity and unreasonable actions. Would you not cover the plugs in the house and then give your toddler a fork? No. Even though he isnt supposed to shock the crap out o himself, he might. Thats not a change most are willing to take. So you would call your child a liberal pig becuz he doesnt know? I dont think so.

I think that humans as a whole... not you or me or even Jesda, but as a whole, are far too stupid to ever change. They need to be conditioned, not taught.

And a real militia would be nice, but since one already exists on the government level...... thats not gonna happen.
Modified by 180crafter at 6:56 PM 9/14/2004

[180crafter]

I also want to say that today, I woke up on the wrong side of bed.

[Mr1der]

ya know, I could sit here and argue all day with you, no one would get anywhere...

Maybe you should do search and see how many people save thier own lives by being armed and capable of defending themselves.

I'd rather have and not need then to need and not have.

[180crafter]

Like I said, most handguns carried by your petty criminals are handguns stolen from gun owners like you. Breaking into your house when you are not home an taking your aresenal, and then selling it all over the street. If you didnt have it, the cycle would never begin, and you would not need to protect yourself.

I dont care how many lives it has saved. A gun, a weapon, is only meant to do one thing. And that is not to save lives.

[Mr1der]

It depends on who's behind the weapon.

what if the gun owner was in fact in the house and used it as a means of forcing the intruder to surrender?

not every gun owner is out to kill someone. Think of the police officers. Perhaps WWII when they were used to fight the Germans and free the Jewish in concentration camps?

think of loosening a bolt, a bat is like pliers while a gun is like a ratchet. which would you rather want?

[Kalok]

Like I said, most handguns carried by your petty criminals are handguns stolen from gun owners like you. Breaking into your house when you are not home an taking your aresenal, and then selling it all over the street. If you didnt have it, the cycle would never begin, and you would not need to protect yourself.

I dont care how many lives it has saved. A gun, a weapon, is only meant to do one thing. And that is not to save lives.

Bull****.

Man has ALWAYS found ways to kill his fellow man. Do you think GUNS invented that?

Washington DC has the most strict gun laws ANYWHERE in the US, yet it manages to have the highest murder-by-gun rate of ANYWHERE in the US.

Guns are also illegal in the UK. Where, a few years ago, a man walked into a church with a SWORD and killed three and maimed 5 before he was stopped.

Go find another baseless argument.

[180crafter]

Bull****.

Man has ALWAYS found ways to kill his fellow man. Do you think GUNS invented that?

True. But how many times do you hear that people were killed with the Beaver Bottle Bocket of Death? Handgun deaths are too common. The facts are undeniable and extremely against the pro handgun peeps.

Washington DC has the most strict gun laws ANYWHERE in the US, yet it manages to have the highest murder-by-gun rate of ANYWHERE in the US.

And if they had NO hand guns, they would have No rate. Period. not stricter laws not harder ways, not even pink guns to deter men like you. Follow along with me..... NNNOOOOOOO HHHAANNNNDDDGGGUUNNNNSSS

Guns are also illegal in the UK. Where, a few years ago, a man walked into a church with a SWORD and killed three and maimed 5 before he was stopped.

I kinda remember a few years ago some kids went crazy with some firearms and killed a bunch of kids at school. Or how about the kid who killed his teacher with the Saturday Nite Special. Or how about the nail gun murder last year in northern florida? I have no idea what the point of what you just said, but I will follow along.

Go find another baseless argument.

Or what, your gonna shoot me?

[180crafter]

Mr1der. I agree... and disagree, with you.

I understand the sense that cops have guns and soldiers have guns. They can have guns.

How many cops have been killed by handguns, or how many jews were killed by handguns? If they didnt have to fight handguns, they wouldnt need them.

I am not against weapons. I am not even against firearms. Just handguns, and the like. Small personal firearms that are easily concealed and can be used by just about anyone.

Hand guns are not necessary, as shown by a couple of guys who killed over 2500 people in one day without one handgun. Pearl Harbor, our 2 beautiful a bombs, guided missiles over Bahgdad, even the killing of our troops in Iraq. No handguns. Not necessary.

I dont want to hear about the need for handguns to defend our homes or our families. If handguns didnt exist, they wouldnt be necessary.

[Onizuka]

I wouldnt mind. If it got to the point where 46% of the people that own cars purposely run over and hurt/kill another family member or themselves, I would do it. It is not a double standard. What purpose does a gun have? A hobby? Fkn please. Defense? Against someone with a handgun? Can you ride it to work? Nuff said..

Quote »Accidental Deaths in the U.S. for 1998

Source is the National Safety Council

41,200 deaths related to motor vehicle accidents,16,600 in falls at home and on the job,4,100 from water in drowning,9,400 from poisoning, in the same year,3,700 due to fire or burns,3,200 due to choking, and900 from guns Note that the top category of vehicle accidents is 45 times greater than the bottom category of guns. Should we outlaw cars, and ladders?[/quote]I'm going to add that there were 12,102 gun related homecides in 1998, still less than a third of the ACCIDENTAL automotive deaths in 1997.

Cars, if you like it or not, ALWAYS kill more people than guns on any given year.