Fix Thread turned into Re-build thread! (built rb25 neo)

[sickness14]

I am not sure I was clear, pull up the compressor maps for your car and plot your motor before you even install it. I would have never even installed this turbo if I knew then what I know now. Its not an "upgrade later" situation, its more of a "I can't tune my car correctly because of compressor surge" situation.

OH DAMN. good point. i need to find a compressor map for my turbo!

[mott6904]

Im dealing with the same turbo issues on my car. it has always surged. I would stick with the turbo setup you have right now and get the car running again and then start building the fuel system to support a big turbo. I would get cam gears and dial in your cams before getting a big turbo. Anytime you shave the block or head it will your timing slightly. all of the stainless hose, slave cylinder, and haramonic balancer are not needed unless there is something wrong with yours. Will the injectors you have listed work with a top feed fuel rail? It looks like a nice list of parts but i doubt it is all needed to get the car running again.

[sickness14]

Im dealing with the same turbo issues on my car. it has always surged. I would stick with the turbo setup you have right now and get the car running again and then start building the fuel system to support a big turbo. I would get cam gears and dial in your cams before getting a big turbo. Anytime you shave the block or head it will your timing slightly. all of the stainless hose, slave cylinder, and haramonic balancer are not needed unless there is something wrong with yours. Will the injectors you have listed work with a top feed fuel rail? It looks like a nice list of parts but i doubt it is all needed to get the car running again.

I talked with patrick at precision turbo yesterday afternoon, and he was pretty knowledgeable about the RB motors. He said that the turbo i have now is actually a really good street setup with quick spool and has the capacity to flow up to 30psi making over 480whp. Precision, as patrick stated, does not use compressor maps and only garrett turbo's have compressor maps.

Good call on the idea to get the car running then upgrade the fuel system idea. And the cam gears, thats also true about shaving head/block changing timing and needing correction, its just a matter of finding someone who knows how to dial them in! cause i sure dont.

The stainless hose, i can see that. but the slave cyl, mines boned. my balancer is also cracked and will eat away at the belt over time. I already have a top feed rail, and the injectors i want are for a top feed. Good call on the advise , thank you very much MOTT6904.

[mott6904]

Carl H had a great write up on how to degree a set of cams. it help me tons when doing mine. I see a lot of people spend all of their money on a sweet parts list and not allow for the unaccounted expenses in building a project car. there always tons of stuff like filters, fluids, fastners, etc. And the little detail items will break you. I would say keep your turbo kit and put some miles on the engine to make sure you have worked out all the issues and i bet you will be happy with the cool street car you built.

[l0nestar]

Wise words from Mott!

[sickness14]

Wise words from Mott!

yes indeed. another question, what kind of power capacity will i have with the stock neo fuel rail and nismo FPR with a set of 800 cc injectors? could i hit the 450-500whp mark?

and i think ill hold off on the cam gears. i should be fine without them. new mod list is looking more like this:

REMAINING TO BE PURCHASED Block honed / bored, Rotating Assembly Balanced, PolishedMachine Work on HeadRe-assemble MotorRe-install motorInstall Differential & Bushing Kit ACL Race Main Bearing Set RB26DETTACL Race Rod Bearing Set RB26DETT RB25 DETNissan RB25DET OEM Gasket KitNissan RB25 OEM Oil StrainerTomei RB25 Metal Head Gasket ( 87mm T=1.5)Nissan OEM RB25DET Clutch Slave Cylinder Deatschwerks 800cc InjectorsNGK RB Spark Plug Set (RB25DET)S-TEC RB25DET T4 Exhaust ManifoldISIS Silicone Radiator Hose Kit

now thats looking more like it!
Modified by sickness14 at 10:04 AM 10/29/2009

[mott6904]

That is an excellent start but i would hold off on the headgasket until you get the bottom end back together. you might need a thicker or thinner headgasket depending on what your piston to deck numbers come out ot be. I have learned tons over the past two years from build bikes at my shop. The most important thing was to spend the money wisely and not on bling bling items. Those bling bling items are cool but they wont make your car run. Ive been digging this thread since the day you started. good luck and keep up the attention detail it is looking good.
Modified by mott6904 at 8:00 PM 9/30/2009

[sickness14]

That is an excellent start but i would hold off on the headgasket until you get the bottom end back together. you might need a thicker or thinner headgasket depending on what your piston to deck numbers come out ot be. I have learned tons over the past two years from build bikes at my shop. The most important thing was to spend the money wisely and not on bling bling items. Those bling bling items are cool but they wont make your car run. Ive been digging this thread since the day you started. good luck and keep up the attention detail it is looking good.

Modified by mott6904 at 8:00 PM 9/30/2009

oh yes of course i will hold off on all parts until i get measurements for bearing clearances and piston to deck clearance. i dont want any bent valves! thanks man, i appreciate the props. I had a 1.1 mm HG in before, ill probably have to go to a 1.3mm or so. i want to keep it safe, but not risk a blown headgasket.

I got an awesome phone call this morning from the shop. the block is bored, crank polished, and everything looks good! it will be picked up from the machine shop tomorrow and inspected for clearances so that i can order bearings , head gasket, engine gasket kit, oil pump pickup

[sickness14]

Bearing clearances are being measured, almost at the point where i need to order bearings!

[Cjmartz2k]

Good on ya man! Glad to hear it's on it's way to getting put back together. I'm back in NC now, so when you are getting ready to put it back together, let me know. I want to get as much experience putting an RB back together as possible. I've never rebuilt an RB short block or head before.

BTW, just to reiterate, the Stec manifold is for a RHD car, and I'm not sure it'll clear the LHD steering column. The wastegate runners specifically. You'll probably have to chop them and have them re-welded to clear. My manifold should be here at the end of the month if you want to see it in person, but it's already been re-welded for twin gates which I'm SURE won't fit as is. You can get an idea of the quality though.

[sickness14]

Good on ya man! Glad to hear it's on it's way to getting put back together. I'm back in NC now, so when you are getting ready to put it back together, let me know. I want to get as much experience putting an RB back together as possible. I've never rebuilt an RB short block or head before.

BTW, just to reiterate, the Stec manifold is for a RHD car, and I'm not sure it'll clear the LHD steering column. The wastegate runners specifically. You'll probably have to chop them and have them re-welded to clear. My manifold should be here at the end of the month if you want to see it in person, but it's already been re-welded for twin gates which I'm SURE won't fit as is. You can get an idea of the quality though.

Sweet! we need to meet up some time. where in NC are you? theres a HUGE car meet this saturday night in raleigh, 120+ cars, mostly nissan G/Z's and GTR's. Ill most likely get that mani. i may end up running twin gates with it too. but right now ill just use the 40mm because it would relieve too much boost if i had two wastegates with that small of a turbo. so your having the engine shipped over here!? dude thats going to be awesome. we need to find you a car! Im having a shop but the motor together so im not sure how much of the internals i'll actually get to touch but ill let you know what happens when im ready to put it together.

[Cjmartz2k]

I've actually got two engines on the way and a lot more LOL. I'm in Kernersville between Winston and G-boro. I might have to wait for another weekend. I just got in and still have a lot of running around to do. Sounds like a blast though. Get some pics for me

About the wastegates, they won't relieve to much. That's what the boost controller does. Twin 50mm wastegates flow the same as a single 40mm gate does when they are shut

[sickness14]

ACL race standard sized main bearings ordered by shop, will be here by fri. then used to measure bottom end

[sickness14]

ACL bearings arrived today. should be fitted tomorrow or monday.

Still trying to figure out what clutch i want to get. something that will hold 500-700 hp. for when i upgrade the turbo. There has to be something that will work for less than $2,500!!! wtf
Modified by sickness14 at 7:10 AM 10/21/2009

[sickness14]

ACL main bearings fit. measuring for rod bearings next. everything is looking good so far. S-tec manifold ordered today. hopefully it will be nice. CJmartz2k says so! site says 4-6 weeks shipping.



REMAINING TO BE COMPLETED

Machine Work on HeadACL Race Rod Bearing Set RB26DETT RB25 DETNissan RB25DET OEM Gasket KitNissan RB25 OEM Oil StrainerTomei RB25 Metal Head Gasket ( 87mm T=1.5)Ross Metal Jacket RB25DET Harmonic Balancer (dont think i need this)Nissan OEM RB25DET Clutch Slave Cylinder Deatschwerks 800cc InjectorsNGK RB Spark Plug Set (RB25DET)ISIS Silicone Radiator Hose KitInstall Differential & Bushing Kit
Modified by sickness14 at 9:40 AM 10/21/2009

[Cjmartz2k]

You'll be happy with it. I'm real curious to see what all needs to be moved how much to make it fit on a LHD car. What's that picture from? It looks a little different from the one I have if that's an Stec mani. Did he send you that pic? Looks like his design except he moved the wastegate runners up and angled them a little better to catch more exhaust gasses just like he did by hand with mine. We had discussed doing that. Cool if he did.

[Cjmartz2k]

BTW, 4-6 weeks for shipping? Fawk. He must be sending it parcel post from on base or something.

[boosted98gst]

I also am going to run a stec mani , let me know how well it fits with LHD when you get it.

[sickness14]

You'll be happy with it. I'm real curious to see what all needs to be moved how much to make it fit on a LHD car. What's that picture from? It looks a little different from the one I have if that's an Stec mani. Did he send you that pic? Looks like his design except he moved the wastegate runners up and angled them a little better to catch more exhaust gasses just like he did by hand with mine. We had discussed doing that. Cool if he did.

I believe thats the same manifold, i found it while searching s-tec on SAU. It does look a little different from the one on his site though. check it out, http://www.skylinesaustralia.c...13503

BTW, 4-6 weeks for shipping? Fawk. He must be sending it parcel post from on base or something.

He sent me an email last night and said he could get it to me quick if i gave him a little more money. ($55) vs parcel post which would take months. so i elected to do so.

Question for you chris, this manifold fit pretty good on the head? Im hoping all of the ports actually line up with the gasket and the bolt holes as well. i just had really bad luck with the previous manifold and i dont want to go through that again. Is it guaranteed to fit? If you have any pics of yours more up-close than what i saw last time, could you post them?

The wastegate is going to be tricky to pull off. hopefully i can make something work. I may have to cut the wastegate merge off and make something a little different to position the pipes away from the steering shaft and i want to use just the 40mm for now. i still have the flange and tube from the last manifold so ill probably hack the tube off and weld it to the merge to make it look nicely. would you recommend re-circ the wastegate? I was planning on just using a dump pipe. And this manifold is T4 flanged, and i have a T3/T4 precision, im pretty sure this will work right?
Modified by sickness14 at 5:20 AM 10/22/2009

[S14-NEO]

Still trying to figure out what clutch i want to get. something that will hold 500-700 hp. for when i upgrade the turbo. There has to be something that will work for less than $2,500!!! wtf

Modified by sickness14 at 7:10 AM 10/21/2009

well im running the Exeddy hyper twin in my NEO.....works like a champ and im still rocking the original pull style design...couldnt be happier. sadly though after three years of putting the stock engine thru its paces, the time has come to remove it and go thru it finally. sounds like i may have stretched a rod bolt finally. yeah i know it sucks.

[sickness14]

well im running the Exeddy hyper twin in my NEO.....works like a champ and im still rocking the original pull style design...couldnt be happier. sadly though after three years of putting the stock engine thru its paces, the time has come to remove it and go thru it finally. sounds like i may have stretched a rod bolt finally. yeah i know it sucks.

AHHH. sorry to hear that bro. Let me know if i can be of any help, i may have some parts laying around that could be of use to you. I'll have to look into the exedy clutches, i keep hearing so much about them. What was the price of that when you got it? Its funny that you responded to my thread today, i was actually going to PM you, or at least what i would consider a PM on this forum. I was wondering if you had a check engine light on your neo due to the lack of the traction control interface / module that gets eliminated when doing the wiring conversion. I want my CEL to be off all the time so that when it comes on, its for the knock warning or something important. Thanks!

-John

[S14-NEO]

yes i do have the CEL light due to no traction control reference. there is a fix for it aparently. it involves putting inliine a resistor to increase the resistance on the signal wire in order to fool the computer so the light will go out.....what parts do you got?

[sickness14]

yes i do have the CEL light due to no traction control reference. there is a fix for it aparently. it involves putting inliine a resistor to increase the resistance on the signal wire in order to fool the computer so the light will go out.....what parts do you got?

Oh ok cool so im not the only one! i saw a thread on SAU about the resistor but when i tried to cross reference the stagea ECU pin out with the ER34 it came up to be a different pin and wasnt the traction control. I only have the Power FC hooked to the factory ER34 harness. thats all. We should try and figure it out somtime! we could make a dedicated thread for it. lol.

[Cjmartz2k]

He sent me an email last night and said he could get it to me quick if i gave him a little more money. ($55) vs parcel post which would take months. so i elected to do so.

Question for you chris, this manifold fit pretty good on the head? Im hoping all of the ports actually line up with the gasket and the bolt holes as well. i just had really bad luck with the previous manifold and i dont want to go through that again. Is it guaranteed to fit? If you have any pics of yours more up-close than what i saw last time, could you post them?

The wastegate is going to be tricky to pull off. hopefully i can make something work. I may have to cut the wastegate merge off and make something a little different to position the pipes away from the steering shaft and i want to use just the 40mm for now. i still have the flange and tube from the last manifold so ill probably hack the tube off and weld it to the merge to make it look nicely. would you recommend re-circ the wastegate? I was planning on just using a dump pipe. And this manifold is T4 flanged, and i have a T3/T4 precision, im pretty sure this will work right?

I looked at that thread and it's a greddy manifold, which Scott's are a copy of, so it's close, but not an Stec mani.

As far as bolting up to the head, he fit tests every single one to one of my old cylinder heads before it leaves the shop. No pics for me though. It's in a box and should get here in early Nov. I think. About the runners, I'd say they are pretty good. Not perfect, but good. I think the first time I had the mani on, I put it on as it, but the second time, I might have spent an afternoon with the die grinder port matching the mani to the head. It's not perfect and certainly worth your time to attack the thing with a die grinder, but it's not "half the port is blocked" like that other mani you had posted up about. When you get it, I would (a) open up the two wastegate runner ports with a die grinder a bit to make them flow more and (b) port match them a bit. These mani's are thick as hell, and they can take a LOT of grinding material out of them. Feel how heavy it is compared to the other one you have when you get it. Oh, an a T3 flanged turbo will not bolt on to a T4 flange. You'll need to look at a different turbo, different exhaust housing, or some kind of adapter plate. I've seen some on ebay. They aren't the best option in my opinion since it's FAR from a smooth transition going to mani into turbo. O, and leave that puppy externally gated. I love that sound I might have to make a trip down to raliegh when you get yours and hopefully I'll have mine by then so I can show you what we did with it.

Also, S14neo, just wanted to make it clear that we are pretty sure this mani won't work as is on a LHD car. John is planning on chopping the wastegate runners and re-positioning them to make it work. We are just curious how much they will need to be moved.

[sickness14]

I looked at that thread and it's a greddy manifold, which Scott's are a copy of, so it's close, but not an Stec mani.

As far as bolting up to the head, he fit tests every single one to one of my old cylinder heads before it leaves the shop. No pics for me though. It's in a box and should get here in early Nov. I think. About the runners, I'd say they are pretty good. Not perfect, but good. I think the first time I had the mani on, I put it on as it, but the second time, I might have spent an afternoon with the die grinder port matching the mani to the head. It's not perfect and certainly worth your time to attack the thing with a die grinder, but it's not "half the port is blocked" like that other mani you had posted up about. When you get it, I would (a) open up the two wastegate runner ports with a die grinder a bit to make them flow more and (b) port match them a bit. These mani's are thick as hell, and they can take a LOT of grinding material out of them. Feel how heavy it is compared to the other one you have when you get it. Oh, an a T3 flanged turbo will not bolt on to a T4 flange. You'll need to look at a different turbo, different exhaust housing, or some kind of adapter plate. I've seen some on ebay. They aren't the best option in my opinion since it's FAR from a smooth transition going to mani into turbo. O, and leave that puppy externally gated. I love that sound I might have to make a trip down to raliegh when you get yours and hopefully I'll have mine by then so I can show you what we did with it.

Also, S14neo, just wanted to make it clear that we are pretty sure this mani won't work as is on a LHD car. John is planning on chopping the wastegate runners and re-positioning them to make it work. We are just curious how much they will need to be moved.

crap. fail on the T3 turbo with T4 mani idea. Its going to be crappy if i have to hack off the t4 flange and put a t3 flange on. Anyone have opinions on this idea... on ebay for $29-$69 varying.



OR i could hack off the flange and get this piece from ATP turbo for $40



http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/me...e=FLG

[Cjmartz2k]

Either way, the exhaust gasses are going to come screaming out of the manifold and smack right in to the T3 flange, whether it's an adapter or a welded on flange. You could to the bolt on flange and TRY and blend it SOME but I think that's going to be far from ideal. New turbo dude

BTW, somebody else hacked and welded and blended a T3 flange on to one of those mani's already back in Oki. Then he went to a MUCH bigger turbo, chopped of that one, and put something in the ballpark of a T5 flange if such a thing exists on it. That manifold has "collectors" that are sized for a twin scroll T4 flange though. You go smaller, it hurts flow.

[sickness14]

Either way, the exhaust gasses are going to come screaming out of the manifold and smack right in to the T3 flange, whether it's an adapter or a welded on flange. You could to the bolt on flange and TRY and blend it SOME but I think that's going to be far from ideal. New turbo dude

BTW, somebody else hacked and welded and blended a T3 flange on to one of those mani's already back in Oki. Then he went to a MUCH bigger turbo, chopped of that one, and put something in the ballpark of a T5 flange if such a thing exists on it. That manifold has "collectors" that are sized for a twin scroll T4 flange though. You go smaller, it hurts flow.

I Concur. The turbo will have to go. Crap this is getting more expensive by the minute lol. So new question is... What turbo do i go with!? GT40R/GT42R Hybrid?

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/me...e=GRT

or a T04Z

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/me...e=GTB

lol. And will that 40mm wastegate be sufficient for a T4 turbo?
Modified by sickness14 at 6:21 PM 10/22/2009

[boosted98gst]

I looked at that thread and it's a greddy manifold, which Scott's are a copy of, so it's close, but not an Stec mani.

As far as bolting up to the head, he fit tests every single one to one of my old cylinder heads before it leaves the shop. No pics for me though. It's in a box and should get here in early Nov. I think. About the runners, I'd say they are pretty good. Not perfect, but good. I think the first time I had the mani on, I put it on as it, but the second time, I might have spent an afternoon with the die grinder port matching the mani to the head. It's not perfect and certainly worth your time to attack the thing with a die grinder, but it's not "half the port is blocked" like that other mani you had posted up about. When you get it, I would (a) open up the two wastegate runner ports with a die grinder a bit to make them flow more and (b) port match them a bit. These mani's are thick as hell, and they can take a LOT of grinding material out of them. Feel how heavy it is compared to the other one you have when you get it. Oh, an a T3 flanged turbo will not bolt on to a T4 flange. You'll need to look at a different turbo, different exhaust housing, or some kind of adapter plate. I've seen some on ebay. They aren't the best option in my opinion since it's FAR from a smooth transition going to mani into turbo. O, and leave that puppy externally gated. I love that sound I might have to make a trip down to raliegh when you get yours and hopefully I'll have mine by then so I can show you what we did with it.

Also, S14neo, just wanted to make it clear that we are pretty sure this mani won't work as is on a LHD car. John is planning on chopping the wastegate runners and re-positioning them to make it work. We are just curious how much they will need to be moved.

So the only issue with the fitment is the wastegate runners? has anyone used one in a LHD car that can vouch the fitment?

[sickness14]

So if i decide to keep my turbo, and get an adapter flange, would i get a "divided" adapter flange or the regular one. My manifold is divided, and my turbo is not. is that going to be ok? I dont see it being a problem, the air shouldnt get too "confused". I really dont want to upgrade the turbo yet, because a lot of other things are not built up to withstand more than the power goals im aiming for. (~500). I.E. fuel pump, driveshaft, clutch. I'll just get a flange, get the car running and roll with it.

[Cjmartz2k]

I didn't know your turbo wasn't dual scroll. Just getting a version of your turbo that is would net you a BIG gain in quicker spool time. Like 500rpm or better kinda gain. I've heard arguments made for better top end power too, but I can't vouch for that. BTW, IF you are looking at something monsterous like a GT40 or 42 or something in between, I HIGHLY recommend a Holset HX52, and I can get you one for under $200 shipped. Just FYI.

Keeping your turbo with an adapter plate certainly is the most economical way of doing it, just not the best performing. You can get the adapter plate now though (it'll probably beat the manifold here) as cheap as it is and when you get everything, you can mock it up and see if it's something you want to do or not. It would also give you an opportunity to chew on it with a die grinder and try to do your best to make it a smooth transistion. Also, about split or not, it doesn't really matter since you turbo isn't dual scroll, but I'd get split, just in case for some reason down the road you get a dual scroll T3 turbo you want to put on, you don't have to order another adapter.

BTW, HX40's come in T4 flanges