Eh, why not....

[Falkdesigns]

I can't believe nchopp called me a nerd. That's a first.

Slalom speed,Porsche 997 911 Turbo: 67.8Nissan 350z: 66.4Mazda RX8: 63.9

Point being, the 911 which, IMO, is THE ultimate sports car, weighs (3500 lbs) almost as much as a Q45 (3800 2nd gen).
Modified by Falkdesigns at 4:45 PM 2/17/2006

[AZhitman]

Well, you *do* know how to sew, and you *are* a "designer", so it coulda been worse...

jfwy Falkster!

[Falkdesigns]

lol, I actually don't know how to sew at all, besides the stitches I once gave my German Shepherd! I do know clothing and shoe patterns though and I am a designer.

[gniknave]

59 mph stock slalom, 350z does like 71 stock, best ive seen for a street car is jic-magic's rx8 pulling 78 on street tires

the Q is a great car in a straight line, but nothing to write home about from a handling standpoint

also weight isnt the only thing that affects handling

Chris GTFO!!!

My last Q couldn't handle that great, and I wasn't trying to make it do so. It was more of my cruiser and nothing more. At the time I owned a 240sx at the same time and would just have fun tossing that around. Then I sold my 240 and my last Q, and bought the one I have now.

A stock Q is great in a straight line. Drive one with a modded suspension then lets talk. I've driven Wes' Q and I can tell you that is one fawking awsome handling beast. I too have an awsome handling Q. I took Nico member dal2kvvisp up an onramp around a very sharp turn at about 65mph (the day I installed my Cal Custom Springs and new Tokicos) and there was no tire skid and no loss of control whatsoever. I camre right out of the turn and hit 100 a couple secs later.

dalk2vvisp owns a 240sx coupe with the tightest suspension you could imagine and, he wouldn't shut up about how damn surprised he was that my Q flawlessly took that turn. Now of course I also have my front and rear Q45a sway bars, FTSB, and running 255/50's all around, so that contributes to the Tokico's and Cal Customs.

The 90-93 G50 could probably outhandle a Y33 in stock vs. stock form, however it takes a lot less effort to make a Y33 handle than it does a G50 because they come more well equiped. Throw on a set of Tein's and some wider tires and you're a few steps ahead.... not sure where I'm going with that one....

Anyway G50 I like the Q overall, the only thing I don't like is the extreme neg. camber. All else is perfect - wheels themselves and all. I'm trying to figure out if I'm not a fan of the extreme neg camber then why do I love the car in One Ton's sig so damn much?

[Falkdesigns]

Quote »The 90-93 G50 could probably outhandle a Y33 in stock vs. stock form[/quote]Pure speculation on your part. The Y33 chassis is MUCH stiffer, and chassis rigidity plays a HUGE role in handling. Not only is the chassis much stiffer on it's own, but it also comes stock with front AND rear STB's.

[nchopp]

I can't believe nchopp called me a nerd. That's a first.

That I'VE called you a nerd, or that you've been called a nerd period?

[Falkdesigns]

That I've been called a nerd period. Believe me, that's not my scene. The closest thing to "nerdy" that I do is go to car meets and surf the web.

[Jesda]

.

[Q45tech]

Negative camber is so easy to fix [just from lowering] asumming nothing else is bent or worn. You just get AN ACCURATE ALIGNMENT, then shim the upper link rear mount to set it at -0.7 degrees. Just a little trig to calculate shim thickness install in an hour or two and good to go.

[nismofly]

strut tower bars do little to nothing for handling

a good set of sticky tires, beefy swaybars, and a nice spring and shock setup would do wonders

on ramps fit the Q well because theyre higher speed and not as tight of turns...kind of like a faster road course, much like how the skyline does much better at faster tracks but has trouble on tighter courses with evos, rx7s, nsx's, porsches, that sort of thing...the Q would probably be quite a fun car to take to a more open track, but something tighter would just be for fun

a tighter road course or auto-x and youll definately be discovering some weaknesses

Chris GTFO!!!

i love you too sweetie <3

[elwesso]

strut tower bars do little to nothing for handling

a good set of sticky tires, beefy swaybars, and a nice spring and shock setup would do wonders

on ramps fit the Q well because theyre higher speed and not as tight of turns...kind of like a faster road course, much like how the skyline does much better at faster tracks but has trouble on tighter courses with evos, rx7s, nsx's, porsches, that sort of thing...the Q would probably be quite a fun car to take to a more open track, but something tighter would just be for fun

a tighter road course or auto-x and youll definately be discovering some weaknesses

i love you too sweetie <3

.

Chris, im gonna disagree wit you on that, in that a strut tower brace does WONDERS on the Q... Seriously. it may not do much on the lighter 240s, but with a much heavier car it really makes the front end feel tighter. Sure it may not "handle" better, but it certainly is more confidence inspiring....

Falk, please dont get bent out of shape, but where are you getting your information that the Y33 has a "far stiffer" chassis than the G50. im curious, because ive never read anywhere that said that. And yes, I HAVE read a thing or 2 about the Y33... Maybe its seemingly stiffer because its lighter? or the added strut tower braces? I mean, if you look at the chassis design in the FSM, its basically the same as the G50 except its a little more narrow (by about an inch, 100ish mm difference average btw the frame rails)....

[nismofly]

Chris, im gonna disagree wit you on that, in that a strut tower brace does WONDERS on the Q... Seriously. it may not do much on the lighter 240s, but with a much heavier car it really makes the front end feel tighter. Sure it may not "handle" better, but it certainly is more confidence inspiring....

sway bars will do much more for that

youre taking me for a ride, ive never been in a Q, i want to feel

[elwesso]

I wont doubt that, but it really is a great mod to do on the Q

[gniknave]

strut tower bars do little to nothing for handling

a good set of sticky tires, beefy swaybars, and a nice spring and shock setup would do wonders

on ramps fit the Q well because theyre higher speed and not as tight of turns

I'm going to take a picture of the on ramp I was talking about. This was a turn meant to be taken at 30mph, not to mention it was uphill. Read the threads on the Jeff Williams FSTB, everybody notices the difference between not having one and having one as soon as they put it on.

Pure speculation on your part. The Y33 chassis is MUCH stiffer, and chassis rigidity plays a HUGE role in handling. Not only is the chassis much stiffer on it's own, but it also comes stock with front AND rear STB's.

Not speculation. I've driven the piss out of both one after the other and back again. Two very different cars. The difference really feels like it's in the stiffer shocks on the 90-93 vs. the softer ones on the Y33. I can't say the same for the 94-96 (except for the active models).

[redmanfx]

Do people really not understand why the camber is the way it is? I mean seriously..... thinka bout what happens to the wheel when there is less camber, now look at where the wheel is in relation to the fender with that much camber.. make sence?

I asked because I don't know much about camber and why people go negative with it. So you can take your attitude and stick it. Instead of saying the damn wheel doesn't fit, you respond like your so much above someone who asked a straight forward question. Pretty much why this forum is here. For all I know you're trying to blind the driver in the car next to you by reflecting the sun back in their face.

Anyway the car still looks good.

red

[elwesso]

For all I know you're trying to blind the driver in the car next to you by reflecting the sun back in their face.

red

LOL!!!!!!

[G50 Q]

I asked because I don't know much about camber and why people go negative with it. So you can take your attitude and stick it. Instead of saying the damn wheel doesn't fit, you respond like your so much above someone who asked a straight forward question. Pretty much why this forum is here. For all I know you're trying to blind the driver in the car next to you by reflecting the sun back in their face.

Anyway the car still looks good.

red

That really wasn't directed towards you.. sorry I quoted you, just a general statement, because the question had been asked several times. Thanks for the compliment btw..

I do however, find it funny that no replied to Oneton's post.

[G50 Q]

You asked for opinions, you got a negative one, and you go all nutso. Lame.

It wasn't a negative opinion it was an ignorant opinion. He's also assuming i care about how well the car handles. Which I don't.

[one ton garage]

I do however, find it funny that no replied to Oneton's post.

yah, kinda weird... was it too concise and hard for folks to disseminate? >HAHA<

[Rex]

Offset, stretching and suspension can be some "argumentative" topics. And if someone is asking if it will work or what the risks/dangers are, then everyone should throw in their thoughts (noting whether personal experienced or educated guess). But just to look at someones car and make incendiary comments is not productive nor the purpose of NICO.

I've let these threads run their course in the past, but I will begin to edit/delete posts and warn members in the future.

As someone who has played with/worked on everything from slammed mini's to bagged crew cabs I can tell you everyone has an opinion and no one (myself included) believes something won't work or will fail until it happens to them. It's part of the true hot rod/car enthusiast mantra of "why not".

If nothing else, lets get along alittle better.

[STATUS]

the problem here is that there's an extraordinary amount of ignorant folks who tend to preach conjecture. My ultimate example actually stemmed from prior experience on this board... when you post a pic of a car with more than -2.5deg of negative camber and/or stretched tires, it's one thing for someone to post something along the lines of "I don't think that looks good personally".. and that's totally fine because looks are subjective, and everyone has different tastes, so you can't expect everyone to like the look you've got, just as you can't expect everyone to like your car's color. But it's quite another thing when someone posts comments such as "I'd sure hate to have to replace tires every month"... or "It must be nice to be rich to be able to afford new tires all the time"... or "I'd rather have my car be able to corner well"... etc...

It's awesome to hear people who have no real experience with either camber or stretched tires spout their ignorance like that. How can you make such generalized, sweeping statements when you never have tried it yourself? Sure, if all you did was run camber, you could easily burn through a set of tires in a matter of 1-2 months of daily driving (I have before in a worst case scenario experiment for the experience), but if you knew what you were doing and made other adjustments accordingly, and actually cared about maintaining your wheels/tires (i.e. check tire wear and pressures 2-3 times a month, which you should do REGARDLESS of whether your setup is modified or stock anyway), you could easily have a set of tires last just about as long as normal. In fact, I'd even go so far to say that I could have a set of tires last longer on my Q at -5.5/-7.5deg than 80% of the Qs out there running stock, simply because those people don't even know how to maintain their cars beyond taking it into a local mechanic when they hear funny noises. for the naysayers: when was the last time YOU checked your tires' pressures, treads, and wear patterns?

ah, and about the whole performance issue.. this one is always funny. Because, has anyone who says that a sliggity slammed and cambered (beyond -3deg) Q can't handle well actually driven one? HONESTLY? you might be pleasantly surprised once you have. i would be willing to bet that my Q, regardless of how much neg camber I set it at-front and rear-would have easily outcornered any of the naysayer's Qs on here. Now if you have a coilover setup with valving balanced to the springs, corner weighted, control arms with heim joint ends or urethane bushings, and stiffer sway bars, then i would most probably concede defeat. BUT, if you don't even have the first bit iota of suspension mods, then isn't it sorta backward for you to complain about how a slammed Q won't handle well, when you don't even know? And then the next question is, when was the last time you even drove the car in a manner that even came close to overwhelming the suspension? (this isn't to anyone specific, but just rhetorical questions meant to evoke some thought)

EDIT: I guess an analogy to this: "And then the next question is, when was the last time you even drove the car in a manner that even came close to overwhelming the suspension?" would be like worrying about your parachute not opening, even though you never have, nor will you ever go skydiving.

...Still waiting for the "experienced ones" to answer this post.

[ceningolmo]

...Still waiting for the "experienced ones" to answer this post.

You've been a member since... today?!?!? You're still waiting? Perhaps you should read the post by Rex directly above yours, and then work on some patience.

Try this... breath deep. Be at one with the you. Now, realize that this is you breathing deep. As you breath, imagine that you are breathing in only blue bubbles...let the impatience flow out of you as you breath out only red bubbles.

Ahhh... now, you should be able to "wait" until you have been a member for 2 whole days before bitching.

[Jesda]

I've never jumped off a tall building, but I can still predict the dire consequences.

[STATUS]

You've been a member since... today?!?!? You're still waiting? Perhaps you should read the post by Rex directly above yours, and then work on some patience.

Try this... breath deep. Be at one with the you. Now, realize that this is you breathing deep. As you breath, imagine that you are breathing in only blue bubbles...let the impatience flow out of you as you breath out only red bubbles.

Ahhh... now, you should be able to "wait" until you have been a member for 2 whole days before bitching.

Its incredibly hilarious and entertaining how "forum people" automatically disrespect people with a low post count. Does that make people with 1000+ posts, "GOD's" or omniscient?

Does my post count directly reflect my intelligence and or experience with automobiles? or is that just a way to make YOU "feel" special or "experienced."



btw- Ive been lurking around this forum since 4/05. I just never bothered to post anything.

Oh yea, maybe you should try breathing and loosen up the old "HIGH HORSE" belt.

[nismofly]

hes right that camber doesnt kill tires, toe kills tires, its just they can be connected

camber is one of those things that has a peak, and there can be too much or too little if youre going for an optimum setup, kind of like how people think that 12/10 coilovers will be perfect, but id like to see them hit a bump in the road in a corner with those rates

the purpose behind camber is so that when you do corner, the tire rolls up as weight is transfered on to that side, in essence the camber goes away, and the contact patch enlarges, generating more lateral grip

however, if youre running too much, the tire may not roll up enough, and therefore your performance will not be as much as it could

that said, camber is something to be tuned, and is track dependant, but if youre a set it and forget it person looking for optimum then probably between -2.5 and -3 is best, again make all necessary corrections with other alignment specs

no, running -7.5 or something like that is too much, handling would improve with less, as this is past the peak i spoke of...

at the same time these people are also running 20 inch chrome wheels that weigh half as much again as the car itself so obviously theyre not too worried about handling

sure it can feel like it handles "good," but just because it feels like it doesnt mean its actually better or faster, or that it couldnt be improved

[ceningolmo]

I'm not questioning your intelligence...and your post count doesn't mean anything to me unless you make a reference to how you are STILL WAITING...

according to your registration, which is the only thing people can refer to, you have been here since...when... an hour ago? I'm merely suggesting that your expectations during this intense period of waiting probably isn't going to lure anyone out to answer OTG's post.

Again, with the deep breathing...I'm doing it now and its working for me.

[Rex]

... If nothing else, lets get along alittle better.

Not to repeat myself, but let's discuss facts and actual experiences, rather than being argumentitive towards one another regardless of thier post count or sign-up date.

[STATUS]

Not to repeat myself, but let's discuss facts and actual experiences, rather than being argumentitive towards one another regardless of thier post count or sign-up date.

Back on topic: Car looks good man! I love the fact that you still think you are not "flush." Thats how we do it. It looks awesome though! GREAT JOB!

[one ton garage]

I've never jumped off a tall building, but I can still predict the dire consequences.

Yes, but to make it more relevant to what people are doing here... you would assume that jumping off a tall building would ultimately result in immediate death, but then there's plenty of cases where people have done so and just broken lots of bones, or been critically injured, but lived. So that debunks the immediate death theory right there. But it's still apples vs. oranges...

Anyway, two points/questions still remain:1) Can anyone else say with *absolute certainty* that a sliggity slammed Q with more than -3deg of camber and stretched tires will perform, oh, so poorly? And,2) Do the people who constantly complain about so ever drive their cars in a manner where that difference in performance even REALLY matters?

I'll be honest, 99% of my Q's driving was on the streets... around town, on the freeways, and that's pretty much it. I drove at speed limits, with an occasional jaunt beyond posted limits, but never at stupid speeds. I don't weave in and out of traffic. I would every so often take corners around empty areas at a high rate of speed for kicks, but only when I could see through the corner. And ya know... my car, when slammed, with camber, and stretched tires, performed 100x better than stock! The Q's main cornering detriment is the amount of inherent body roll, and just a good lowering can make a world of difference, as it substantially reduces that sway. Hmmm, oh yah, and then there's also the fact that I was able to take wide sweepers much faster, and with much more confidence in my Q-as modified-than in my modified NB Miata. People find that hard to believe for some reason... but I noticed it's mostly people who have never driven neither a modified Miata, nor a crazy-modified Q... so as they take what I say with a grain of salt, I know that I can take their assumptions with a bigger grain of salt, cuz they're baseless...i.e. conjecture.

And if folks are sooo concerned with performance, I suggest those who aren't afraid to modify their cars to invest in a set of quality coilovers. Then slam your car down. Then drive the hell out of the car with your stock wheels. Then get a set of nice wheels that you think look nice, in a semi-extreme fitment, and run them. (You'll already have a decent amount of neg camber just from lowering the car; only dial in more if your wheel fitment necessitates it... for looks, of course... we're not making any false pretenses here and lying about the neg camber being for any purpose other than aesthetics.) Then make note of whether your car is cornering better now than when it was stock, when you were making all those allegations of poor performance. I would be willing to bet good money it will be pulling quite a bit more Gs than in stock form. And, of course, we'd hope that the end result LOOKS better than stock, too!

[STATUS]

Very well said.

G50 Q- Anymore pics? I wanna see some good 3/4 angle front and rear pics man. Your stance looks mean!