Eh, why not....

[ceningolmo]

I'm sorry but, sure you can make a q45 handle "ok" but really what's the point?

I guess the point for me is that the Q serves a variety of purposes in a single vehicle. I like to drive fast on the highway, I want the car to ride well and be comfortable for my daily commute, but I still want it to be able to handle some intense driving if I feel like. And, I don't want to pay a fortune for it.

I guess if I wanted a daily commuter that was just a nice reliable car, I could go get a Civic or a Saturn. But, I don't want to buy a seperate car for that.

Also, I guess I could go buy myself a sports car and throw a big engine in it if I wanted something that would really jump off the line and would really maximize speed on the highway. But, I don't want a seperate car for that.

I suppose I could go buy myself a little roadster for when I feel like really throwing the car around in the corners. But, i don't want a seperate car for that.

I also would like something that is AWD for Michigan winters. But, I don't want a seperate car for that.

It would be nice if I could haul around furniture, yard waste, and gravel for my driveway in the bed of my truck. But, I don't want a seperate car for that.

It would be nice if I could fit myself, my wife, my two kids, and the 3 other kids we pick up from school in the afternoon. And, I did have to buy a seperate car for that... damn mini-van.

I supppose the point is that I was going to have to make compromises regardless of what I was driving since I don't have room or cash for the 7 different cars I would like.

But, the things that I really wanted... the ability to haul *** on the highway, a really good ride, a luxury interior, and all around good performance... all came with an affordable price tag (under $4K including restoration thus far) on my Q.

[Bwana]

Good point, well stated.

[Rex]

The Q's not a Sports Coupe and a Sports Coupe's not a Q. That covers most of it. The rest is an exercise in debate, that no one wins.

G50, have you shared your set up (widths, offset, etc) for future members looking for the same "stance"? If not, would you?

Thanks all.

[hardmoney]

I hate to join the noise here but thought my experience and actually having a good way testing this subject might help.I have an accelerometer that Ive fitted to both my Q and S200, near my house there's a circular freeway on ramp that I love to test lateral G's with. Ive hit 1.2G's in the s2k and in the low .9 in the Q. To render an argument in anyone's book that the Q doesn't handle well is a gross overstatement, this is coming from someone who owns arguably one of the best handling cars under 100k(new). With the right suspension setup the Q45 handles exceptionally well, something that's also often lost in debates such as these is the difference that a 4000 pound car feels like at 140mph and one that tips the scales at 2850 pounds feels like.I get scared going 140 in my s2k, the car feels flighty and unsure while conversely the Q feels surefooted planted and instills confidance.What cant be lost though is that the Q45 is not a sports car, its a sports sedan. and as such did(and by many modern standards does) a pretty damn good job at ocupying the nitch. As far as your ride goes I think it looks pretty hot dropped, Im not a fan of negative camber either but I think with your spacers youll get that tuck your looking for.The deep dishes in the rear defintly caught my attention. Keep us posted with pics after the spacers, I know Ill enjoy viewing them

[AZhitman]

^ Preach it brotha.

There's a certain S14 here in town that can't take off-camber onramps at the same speed as my Q.

Anyway, those wheels are gorgeous - Kind of a modern interpretation of a Cragar S/S... I'd love to see them "uncambered" with some wider tires, but that's just my style. It's a damn clean Q, that's for sure.

[redmanfx]

The fact of the matter is if you want a car that will handle well a Q45 is not the car to start with. No, it just means he drives a 4000lb car that doesn't handle well period. I'm sorry but, sure you can make a q45 handle "ok" but really what's the point?

?????????????? I have to wonder what you are talking about here because it's not a Q45. You have no earthly idea how a Q handles or you wouldn't make such a statement. It handles better then most cars on the road and was designed for the total feel and not just racing around corners. It seems you're comparing apples(smaller import sport cars) to oranges(larger, heavier, luxury SEDANS) here with those statements. And like someone said I'd take my 92 Q45 doing 130mph on any road with tough cornering over anything under it's weight.

The wheels are nice and look wild on the car. Just a question and not saying anything negative, but because I don't know, why would the camber be set the way it is? I mean what is the purpose? The car has some unique style to it and looks sharp.

red

p.s. Jesda has a video of the Q45a going head to head with the Mercedes and Bmw's as far as handling and guess who comes out on top????

[midnightsliding]

i mean i see where G50 is coming from. i mean having a Q for auto-x would not be my first choice i would take a maita or S2k. for road race i would not want a Q i would rather have a M3 or as compard to early a M5. for drifting most would chose a light more agial car with better wieght balence and aftermarket support but i chose a Q. its all in prefrence so lets jsut drop the f**king subject. G50s Q looks bad *** hes going to the VIP look not the grocery getter touge terror. im sure the hold their gorund in the hevyweight class but its not my cup of tea when their other choices out their.

[Aussie Q45a]

Put a little "a" after the Q45 and then you can start talking handeling

[G50 Q]

G50, have you shared your set up (widths, offset, etc) for future members looking for the same "stance"? If not, would you?

Yea I believe they are in my last thread but here they are again:

Wheels:

18x9 +13 front 225/4018x10 +7 rear 245/40

Suspension:

HKS CoiloversModified ruca's

[elwesso]

I think debates like this are good... But lets not have anyone get carried away (not blaming anyone, just a friendly notice)...

As stated earlier, it is your car and you can do whatever the hell you want... However, what a lot of you guys are missing I thikn is that a cars "handling" is not simply how fast it can take a corner... Indeed, it is a component of it, but it is not its entirety. I think it is has more to do how with it is composed on the road at various speeds, its cornering ability, and so forth... Sure, the Q45 is not going to be a good auto X car, a tiny car like the miata and S2k def are the way to go (which are cars I cannot fit in comfortably, BTW).. however, is a S2k or a miata the kind of car that youd want to take on the freeway for a 150MPH run and then toss it onto an off- ramp...?

The thing I like about my Q is that I COULD take it to the auto-X track, a road course, and so on, do reasonably well, and travel home completely comfortable..... It would be nice to have a balls out sports car, but I cant really get one of thoes right now, so that kinda sucks......

Besides, 90% of a cars handling (semantics aside) has to do with the driver (primarily) and the tires that the car has... Even a car thats not very handling oriented with a set of michelin PS2s will handle pretty damn good, assuming that the suspension is not wrecked and things like that.

[G50 Q]

The wheels are nice and look wild on the car. Just a question and not saying anything negative, but because I don't know, why would the camber be set the way it is? I mean what is the purpose? The car has some unique style to it and looks sharp.

Do people really not understand why the camber is the way it is? I mean seriously..... thinka bout what happens to the wheel when there is less camber, now look at where the wheel is in relation to the fender with that much camber.. make sence?

[Falkdesigns]

Obviously, if someone is asking, they don't know why it's that way. It's not only due to lowering either because you mentioned that you cut the UCA's. It's that way from what I gather because you think it looks cool.

What you must fail to see in your quest to mimic the slammed mad JDM tyte negative cambered VIP rides is that no one actually drives like that in Japan. They have the advantage of so damn many luxury cars equipped with FACTORY air suspensions. All they have to do is buy aftermarket height controllers and slam them with that "crazy camber" for ONE THING ONLY: PICTURES. You on the other hand, actually drive on 2 inches of rubber.

I have the advantage of actually having been to Japan a few times, seen what these cars look like in person, I can read Japanese pretty well now, and if I have a question about what something says (Kanji characters, which there are thousands of that I haven't learned yet), I just ask my wife, who was born and raised there.

[DuDro]

....

[G50 Q]

Obviously, if someone is asking, they don't know why it's that way. It's not only due to lowering either because you mentioned that you cut the UCA's. It's that way from what I gather because you think it looks cool.

It's that way for ONE REASON and one reason only.. to fit the rear wheels into the stock fenders. I do think it looks good, and that's just my opinion. People usually don't like to be proven wrong, so i can understand many peoples dislike of it, and why it causes so much contraversy.

What you must fail to see in your quest to mimic the slammed mad JDM tyte negative cambered VIP rides is that no one actually drives like that in Japan. They have the advantage of so damn many luxury cars equipped with FACTORY air suspensions. All they have to do is buy aftermarket height controllers and slam them with that "crazy camber" for ONE THING ONLY: PICTURES. You on the other hand, actually drive on 2 inches of rubber.

You're wrong.

Like you, my roomate for the past 3 years was born and raised in Japan. I have been there aswell to visit his mom (she lives in hokido... but you don't see me bragging about it to everyone now do you?) I still can't figure out why you seem to think that becuase you've been to Japan, and your wife is "japanese" you automatically know what everyone does there in the "vip world" stop reading so many damn magazines. And if anyone here is trying to mimic a JDM tyte vip ride it's you... i have never even seen a copy of vipcar nor do i really care to buy one (although i'll take them if you wanna give em away for free, i'm sure you have every issue). Stop concentrating so hard on what people do in Japan and worry about your own car.

My car has a crap load of camber to fit the wheels... period. Nothing more nothing less so give it a rest. It's really not a hard concept to understand, which is why i was poking fun at why people kept asking "why do you have so much cmaber omg!"

[Falkdesigns]

That makes sense. But I honestly think Redmanfx was asking because he really didn't know.

My only point about being to Japan is that I've seen VIP style cars in person, on the roads and at dealers and I haven't seen a single one of them driving around slammed. Low, yes, slammed, no. That is all.

[midnightsliding]

i liek G 50s car thumbs up, way up.

[Rex]

G50 - thanks for expounding on your reason for "cambering" your car the way it is. And as hard as it may be I've come across several people (educated car enthusiasts even) that had no idea why someone would crank the camber that far. They just didn't get the objective was to get the upper part of the wheel/tire inside the wheel well.

I jokingly created this one time to help them "see" it.

/ /--@--\ \

[G50 Q]

That makes sense. But I honestly think Redmanfx was asking because he really didn't know.

My only point about being to Japan is that I've seen VIP style cars in person, on the roads and at dealers and I haven't seen a single one of them driving around slammed. Low, yes, slammed, no. That is all.

Well, again, I don't look to magazines (or in this case japanese people) for inspriation for my own car.. I do what I like to it. The reason I drive my car DAILY the way it is, is simply because I liek the way it looks, I like slammed cars, and i have enough balls to drive it that low every day.

midnightsliding: Thanks man, hows the swap comming along?

[midnightsliding]

yea well if i ever get mine running i will be with u on the balls part im goign to ahve my **** as low as possible my car is never going to run lol

[qsiguy]

Cracks me up how we always get off on a performance debate whenever someone mentions a particular wheel and/or tire setup. Most people buy wheels because they want the car to look better to themselves and others, not because it'll increase the handling. If my ugly pie pans were the best performing wheels in the world I'd still think they were garbage and be in the market for new better looking wheels.

G50, wheels look awsome. Mercedes has a wheel like that on one of their models. I've always loved that style. They have a little "Hot Rod" attitude to them. So currently you have no spacers at all or are you just getting wider spacers to replace existing ones?

[q45VIP]

Yea I believe they are in my last thread but here they are again:

Wheels:

18x9 +13 front 225/4018x10 +7 rear 245/40

Suspension:

HKS CoiloversModified ruca's

Did you mod your front uca's too? or just rear?If so, how much shorter are the front arms?

Thanks.Car looks SWEET by the way.

[G50 Q]

G50, wheels look awsome. Mercedes has a wheel like that on one of their models. I've always loved that style. They have a little "Hot Rod" attitude to them. So currently you have no spacers at all or are you just getting wider spacers to replace existing ones?

The current set up has no spacers on it.

Did you mod your front uca's too? or just rear?If so, how much shorter are the front arms?

Thanks.Car looks SWEET by the way.

Just the rears...

Camber on the front is -4.5

I actually had to mod the pass side camber arm mount to get the camber even with the drivers side.

[one ton garage]

the problem here is that there's an extraordinary amount of ignorant folks who tend to preach conjecture. My ultimate example actually stemmed from prior experience on this board... when you post a pic of a car with more than -2.5deg of negative camber and/or stretched tires, it's one thing for someone to post something along the lines of "I don't think that looks good personally".. and that's totally fine because looks are subjective, and everyone has different tastes, so you can't expect everyone to like the look you've got, just as you can't expect everyone to like your car's color. But it's quite another thing when someone posts comments such as "I'd sure hate to have to replace tires every month"... or "It must be nice to be rich to be able to afford new tires all the time"... or "I'd rather have my car be able to corner well"... etc...

It's awesome to hear people who have no real experience with either camber or stretched tires spout their ignorance like that. How can you make such generalized, sweeping statements when you never have tried it yourself? Sure, if all you did was run camber, you could easily burn through a set of tires in a matter of 1-2 months of daily driving (I have before in a worst case scenario experiment for the experience), but if you knew what you were doing and made other adjustments accordingly, and actually cared about maintaining your wheels/tires (i.e. check tire wear and pressures 2-3 times a month, which you should do REGARDLESS of whether your setup is modified or stock anyway), you could easily have a set of tires last just about as long as normal. In fact, I'd even go so far to say that I could have a set of tires last longer on my Q at -5.5/-7.5deg than 80% of the Qs out there running stock, simply because those people don't even know how to maintain their cars beyond taking it into a local mechanic when they hear funny noises. for the naysayers: when was the last time YOU checked your tires' pressures, treads, and wear patterns?

ah, and about the whole performance issue.. this one is always funny. Because, has anyone who says that a sliggity slammed and cambered (beyond -3deg) Q can't handle well actually driven one? HONESTLY? you might be pleasantly surprised once you have. i would be willing to bet that my Q, regardless of how much neg camber I set it at-front and rear-would have easily outcornered any of the naysayer's Qs on here. Now if you have a coilover setup with valving balanced to the springs, corner weighted, control arms with heim joint ends or urethane bushings, and stiffer sway bars, then i would most probably concede defeat. BUT, if you don't even have the first bit iota of suspension mods, then isn't it sorta backward for you to complain about how a slammed Q won't handle well, when you don't even know? And then the next question is, when was the last time you even drove the car in a manner that even came close to overwhelming the suspension? (this isn't to anyone specific, but just rhetorical questions meant to evoke some thought)

EDIT: I guess an analogy to this: "And then the next question is, when was the last time you even drove the car in a manner that even came close to overwhelming the suspension?" would be like worrying about your parachute not opening, even though you never have, nor will you ever go skydiving.
Modified by one ton garage at 9:24 PM 2/17/2006

[TgduMg]

Well, again, I don't look to magazines (or in this case japanese people) for inspriation for my own car.. I do what I like to it.

I look at magazines, go to car shows, watch Horsepower TV, Rides, Overhaulin', Pimp My Ride, visit car lots on Sunday, notice cars on the street, surf internet forums, etc. I can appreciate a persons individuality about what they may have done to their car and depending on what and how they executed it could give me a different perspective on the modification.

Just because I can appreciate something or it has the wow factor, does not mean that I want to do it if it's just not me. You will sometimes hear, "That just doesn't fit that car for the kind of car it is" I'm not saying that I don't feel that way about some of the stuff I see such as the "Donk" craze for example. My feelings are if you have to have to put a lift-kit on a car to put rims on it, then it wasn't meant to be. And no I've never put 26 inch rims on a 86 Caprice but I bet one modded that way couldn't generate decent skidpad numbers. It would just end up on its side. Physics.

But I could see incorporating different ideas and/or different variations of ideas to different vehicles. For example, Chip Foose is a wonderful visionary and does fantastic work, but most of the cars he does on Overhaulin' the exterior rear view mirrors disappear from them. I do want to see what is in my blind spots. Let me keep my mirrors Chip.

I've always been a car lover and loved them many years before I was old enough to get my drivers license. But if I was a blind man I doubt that I would be into them at all. It's all by sight when it comes to this.

The reason I drive my car DAILY the way it is, is simply because I like the way it looks

So I don't believe for one moment that you, by osmosis never before seeing another lowered car wanted to do what you did to yours. Does it matter if it was in a magazine or in person? But that's ok.

The real point being though G50 Q, I've seen your car in pics on this forum (basically an interactive electronic magazine) and in my opinion it looks cool. Would I do the same. No. But if I knew someone who wanted to do something similar to their Q45, LS400, etc., I could show them pics of your car and direct them to search for your posts and others on the net.

Don't take this the wrong way, I ain't mad at chaBut I do buy a lot of magazines

Danisiti 1


Modified by TgduMg at 5:55 PM 2/17/2006

[Falkdesigns]

So I don't believe for one moment that you, by osmosis never before seeing another lowered car wanted to do what you did to yours. Does it matter if it was in a magazine or in person. But that's ok.

Exactly, I was gonna say about the same thing. I know he's been on VIPstyle for a while, but yet claims to have "never looked at a VIP magazine", which I don't buy for one second because there are scanned images from VIP magazines on there all the time.

People, including myself, look all over for inspiration, wether it's magazines, the internet, TV, nature, wherever, people get inspiration from somewhere. In the end though, his car does look pretty good, I like the wheels, as someone else mentioned, they have a bit of a muscle car look to them, and the Q is after all, a 4 door muscle car (somewhat!). Nobody's mad at you and nobody's hating on you though, it's all just healthy conversation.

[midnightsliding]

neg. camber makes a car handle better. more contach patch when corrnering.

[Falkdesigns]

That's completely true. To a degree. A Formula 1 car runs about -4 in FRONT, not in the rear though, rear is around 1-2 degrees less than the front. When on a RWD car, you want as much rubber on the ground for traction under acceleration, which is why on RWD race cars, the front is always more negative camber than the rear. I have never seen 8 degrees of negative camber on a race car. This I know 110% for a fact.

[nchopp]

I definatly don't care that the car itsn't his taste... it's just his "q45's are god's gift to performance cars" attitude that is annoying.

The fact of the matter is if you want a car that will handle well a Q45 is not the car to start with. and i sure as hell wouldn't brag about out handeling a toyota camery.. i mean maybe he thinks that's an accomplishment but whatever...

Like i said I have a car that is built for the sole purpose of handleing, which i have no doubt would out handle any q45 on this board including his. So does that make his suspension a wreck becuase my 240 can out handle his car? no, it just means he drives a 4000lb car that doesn't handle well period. I'm sorry but, sure you can make a q45 handle "ok" but really what's the point?

You asked for opinions, you got a negative one, and you go all nutso. Lame.

[nchopp]

I have the advantage of actually having been to Japan a few times, seen what these cars look like in person, I can read Japanese pretty well now, and if I have a question about what something says (Kanji characters, which there are thousands of that I haven't learned yet), I just ask my wife, who was born and raised there.

You're wrong.

Like you, my roomate for the past 3 years was born and raised in Japan. I have been there aswell to visit his mom (she lives in hokido... but you don't see me bragging about it to everyone now do you?) I still can't figure out why you seem to think that becuase you've been to Japan, and your wife is "japanese" you automatically know what everyone does there in the "vip world" stop reading so many damn magazines. And if anyone here is trying to mimic a JDM tyte vip ride it's you... i have never even seen a copy of vipcar nor do i really care to buy one (although i'll take them if you wanna give em away for free, i'm sure you have every issue). Stop concentrating so hard on what people do in Japan and worry about your own car.

http://www.thebestpageintheuni..._nerd

[nismofly]

Have you seen what a new Porsche 911 Turbo weighs lately? It's not far from the 4000 pound mark. I can't figure it out, but cars are getting heavier and heavier, yet faster and better handling. Nextel Cup cars weigh OVER 4000 pounds, but they go 200 mph and corner over 2.5 G's. Do you think your 240 could take a BMW M5? Those are 4000 pound cars that are bullet fast and have sports car handling. Sorry bro, but Q45's are excellent handling cars to start with. (Not trying to argue here, but just point out that the Q45 IS indeed a good handling car, even in stock trim.)

59 mph stock slalom, 350z does like 71 stock, best ive seen for a street car is jic-magic's rx8 pulling 78 on street tires

the Q is a great car in a straight line, but nothing to write home about from a handling standpoint

also weight isnt the only thing that affects handling