E85 Conversion and Tuning Thread

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nelson8708
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Re: (WDRacing)

Postby nelson8708 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:41 am

WDRacing wrote:Yeah, most aftermarket pumps will hold up fine. But as I said, it's more of a lubricant thing...so the pumps would need to be running, not soaking.

WD
If its a lubricating problem them could you run a little marvel mystery oil in every tank or every other tank. You can pick up a pretty big bottle for a few buck. It would probably last 6 month and that is going through a tank a week. I just dont know if it is mystery oil is ok to mix with e85. You can run it with gas, diesel, and in your crank case so i think it would be ok.

What do you think?


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Re: (nelson8708)

Postby WDRacing » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:15 pm

I ran MMO with my alcohol injection kit a few years back before I was using a pump made for alcohol. So yes, MMO works well with alcohol. E85 might be ok without though since it does have the 15% petro in the mix. But using MMO won't hurt, other then lowering your octane some.

WD

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Re: (WDRacing)

Postby 240addiction » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:41 am

I am running e 85 on my auto colt and love it. It made a little more power after the auto then before with the 5spd, even with race gas. My mods are as follows:stock bottom, hks 264 cams int/exh, SBR manifold w/out wastegate port, evo 3 16 "GT" turbo, evo 3 O2 housing, 2.5inch exhaust under front bumper, 2.5inch IC piping to TB, Evo 8 front mount, 750cc FIC injectors, 2g mas w/k&n filter, injen intake pipe, IPT Electromatic controller, huge tranny cooler, stock torque converter and tranny, tunning with a SAFC2



overall the car just runs better and has a lot more topend. These pulls were done in third gear (it was fourth for the manual)at about 22-24psi. I have multiple stations near my house so it is easy to get and cheaper than $6.00+ for race gas.

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Postby xckid » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:16 am

I figured id chime in...Since I recently tried E85 on my stock KA

At first i ran it as low as possible before i filled up. The went and bought some E85 and instantly when i drove a block and let it idle i could tell the car was having problems Idling. On the drive home i opend it up..as well as it would and they way My RPM's climbed was as if my MAF was bad. They climbed slow and at times i could feel flat spots and even saw it in the rpm gauge . I tried to spin the tires in first...lol i got a chirp...this was on bald tires..

Once i arrived home i listen to the motor you could hear injectors struggling, So i turned it off I popped of the spark plugs closed the gap a bit and advanced the timing on the distributor as much as possible. To try and get all this gas to burn right as well as the stock ka ecu could. Also..my spark plugs 2 and 4 were toasted after this. I started her up again...she settled down ran better then previous drive..but still not its full potential. No im back to 93 oct. and for now that feels good, as im sure i got alot of build up out of there.

just thought id let you guys know ....if theres anything else id be willing to help...

oh also..i think it might have killed my o2 sensor...and i just replaced it....-_-

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Re: (xckid)

Postby GTR PrYdE » Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:23 am

Why would you do this?!?! Stock injectors, no tuning?! E85 requires 30% more fuel...

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Re: (xckid)

Postby WDRacing » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:39 am

xckid wrote:I figured id chime in...Since I recently tried E85 on my stock KA

At first i ran it as low as possible before i filled up. The went and bought some E85 and instantly when i drove a block and let it idle i could tell the car was having problems Idling. On the drive home i opend it up..as well as it would and they way My RPM's climbed was as if my MAF was bad. They climbed slow and at times i could feel flat spots and even saw it in the rpm gauge . I tried to spin the tires in first...lol i got a chirp...this was on bald tires..

Once i arrived home i listen to the motor you could hear injectors struggling, So i turned it off I popped of the spark plugs closed the gap a bit and advanced the timing on the distributor as much as possible. To try and get all this gas to burn right as well as the stock ka ecu could. Also..my spark plugs 2 and 4 were toasted after this. I started her up again...she settled down ran better then previous drive..but still not its full potential. No im back to 93 oct. and for now that feels good, as im sure i got alot of build up out of there.

just thought id let you guys know ....if theres anything else id be willing to help...

oh also..i think it might have killed my o2 sensor...and i just replaced it....-_-
I was going to type out a long detailed reply, but I don't have the time nor patience. Suffice it to say that you did everything wrong that could be done wrong...

THIS IS NOT THE CORRECT WAY TO RUN E85, IN FACT, IT'S EXACTLY HOW NOT TO DO IT.

WD

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Postby xckid » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:43 am

ok, well then if you dont mind id like to hear how the correct way to run E85 is...i know you need a tune and bigger injectors. At least, i was just trying to see what the stock 240 can take

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Re: (xckid)

Postby GTR PrYdE » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:02 am

This is a very detailed thread dude. **Search** through it if you really want to run it correctly. In this thread it says why it SHOULD NOT be used on stock cars. No one wants you to blow your motor...
xckid wrote:ok, well then if you dont mind id like to hear how the correct way to run E85 is...i know you need a tune and bigger injectors. At least, i was just trying to see what the stock 240 can take
Modified by GTR PrYdE at 3:52 PM 3/10/2008

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Re: (GTR PrYdE)

Postby WDRacing » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:12 am

GTR PrYdE wrote:This is a very detailed thread dude. Read through it if you really want to run it correctly. In this thread it says why it SHOULD NOT be used on stock cars. No one wants you to blow your motor...
Woah dude...you can't just tell someone to read...LOL.


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Postby xckid » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:16 am

I know, im reading up on it as we speak,I also wanted to see for myself how it would run. Either way car still runs fine as it did before.It was only 4 gallons.

i made my first post here while i was reading on page 3, and i was readily to try and help so i made the post and then fell asleep......

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Re: (WDRacing)

Postby GTR PrYdE » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:53 am

WDRacing wrote:
Woah dude...you can't just tell someone to read...LOL.
Fixed!

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Postby inuyasha3466 » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:00 am

I ended up not running E85 on mine mostly due to lack of stations that sell it around where i live and none being where we drift...

I bet with 370cc injectors, the car wouldve ran a lot better but might not have run better that 93 octane since there are no other mods on the car... idk.

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Re: (inuyasha3466)

Postby S13FX » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:44 am

inuyasha3466 wrote:I ended up not running E85 on mine mostly due to lack of stations that sell it around where i live and none being where we drift...

I bet with 370cc injectors, the car wouldve ran a lot better but might not have run better that 93 octane since there are no other mods on the car... idk.
Lack fo station of E85 is true, here in Chicago it's a little bit more common now then it was. But now days it's not that hard to have two maps and switch between them depending on whats available.

As for the 370cc injectors, yeah sure the car would have ran a lot better with 370's untuned on on NA, but thats cause they would spray about 35% more fuel which is needed for E85 to burn properly.

As for performance you wouldn't really see any, just a lot more gas consumption LOL.

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Re: (S13FX)

Postby nelson8708 » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:23 am

its official..by the end of march i will have the honda on e85. Regular is 3.30 a gallon while e85 is 2.37 a gallon. I am just debating on how i want to tune it. Most likely it will be chrome but i could just buy a adjustable FPR and turn the pressure up.

Any one have a idea on how much mpg i will lose. I am getting 30mpg now and i figured 25mpg on e85 since you are supposed to run about 15 to 20% more fuel during cruising and 30% more at WOT. Its a honda so there is no point in going WOT. ..lol

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Re: (nelson8708)

Postby WDRacing » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:42 am

If you're looking for something for more mpg and cheaper in price then a propane conversion is pretty easy and not expensive to DIY. I'm actually going to convert atleast one of my vehicles I think. Not to mention you can have it run as a true flex fuel, since you just flip a switch to run pump gas if you can't or don't have time to refill the propane as often as you'd like.

Just my way of saying F you to big oil.

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Postby float_6969 » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:40 pm

Don't crank up the fuel pressure. It'll work, but your mileage will blow.

Tune it with crome. At full throttle, you need to bump the volume up by 30%, but at part throttle, the higher octane allows you to run leaner safely, so you can cut that down to only about 15% at part throttle.

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Re: (float_6969)

Postby nelson8708 » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:46 pm

float_6969 wrote:Don't crank up the fuel pressure. It'll work, but your mileage will blow.

Tune it with crome. At full throttle, you need to bump the volume up by 30%, but at part throttle, the higher octane allows you to run leaner safely, so you can cut that down to only about 15% at part throttle.
Yeah i thought you only had to do 15% at part throttle but have heard different things hear and there so....My wide band only shows afr for gasoline so i will just tune for 14.7 at cruising speeds and probably 12-11afr under load just to make it safe. If fuel consumption only goes up 15% i should still be getting 25mpg ...

WD

I will defintally look into the propane thing. I remember seeing a propane datsun for sale on one of the local forums a while ago.

In the end i just want to give the middle finger to the oil companies

(I know that smilie is just waving no no but, just consider it a middle finger to the oil companies for now.)

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Re: (nelson8708)

Postby WDRacing » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:28 am

Let me know if you wanna discuss it via AIM or something. I might be looking at designing a kit for the 240 and then a generic kit for others. One that enables you to still run pump gas if you choose or need to.

WD

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Re: (WDRacing)

Postby PapaSmurf2k3 » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:11 pm

Brian, I'm interested in a propane conversion. At this time, I can't get E85 in my area, and I'm all for sticking it to the man.

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Postby egan » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:02 am

ok guys, ive been reading and reading and i have a couple questions,

i have an enthalpy tune for 370's, n60 mafnow to run e85, i can just plop in 480's and go? (370*1.3=481 iirc)are the ignition maps the same for gas and e85 (or at least very close?)

i also have an safc2 so im thinking of doing 550's and upping the boost to near 300hp reliably on stock block. my question is how big of injectors will safc control? everyone always says 550/no bigger than 680/whatever... will the enthalpy tune allow me to get 740's/820's on e85 so i dont have to buy more injectors when i rebuild my motor(eventually) or would the idle be crappy with a big cruising mpg loss? how big would you guys go?


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Re: (egan)

Postby CrazyInteg » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:41 am

I wish Enthalpy would make an E85 tune. There is one station less than a half of a mile away from my house that sells E85.

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Re: (CrazyInteg)

Postby nelson8708 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:42 am

Just got this pic from a thread on KA-T.org and figured i would throw it up here. I plan on coverting my 240 to run e85 later this year or next. Since it is not my daily driver it gets stored during winter. This is a pic of a FPR that was on a 240 when he stored it for a year that was running e85. When you store you car it would be a good idea to run a couple tanks of gas through it to get all the e85 out.



His whole fuel system is probably filled with this stuff.

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Re: (nelson8708)

Postby GTR PrYdE » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:02 pm

Wow how the frick does ethanol gel up like that...

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Re: (GTR PrYdE)

Postby jbracy7 » Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:49 pm

additives in the fuel tank +time+evapation= gell

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Postby float_6969 » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:21 pm

Yea, that would probably only happen if it sat like his did. Also, is that an aftermarket FPR? If so, was it rated for alcohol?

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Re: (float_6969)

Postby nelson8708 » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:45 am

Yes it is after market but i cant tell you if it is rated for alcohol.

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Re: (nelson8708)

Postby WDRacing » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:37 am

Bare in mind that I don't even let gasoline sit in my tank for a year and think it's still good...lol. Granted, it doesn't gel like alcohol, but it does go bad.

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Re: (WDRacing)

Postby nelson8708 » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:12 pm

^+1

the gas in my 240 has been sitting for about 5 months but i put some stabil in it before i stored it. Even though i did i wont get on it until i get some frest gas in there. I just dont want the old gas to clog up the injectors.

WD:

Do you drain out the gas before you store it or just drive it year around?

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Re: (nelson8708)

Postby WDRacing » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:01 am

I run it almost empty, then I add some water remover or stabil like you said. When I go to fire it back up I pour a good 3-4 gallons of new gas into the tank. Then I prime the system but I take off the pressure hose from the rail and purge a liter or so to insure I get the old crap out of the pump/lines etc.

Has worked for me so far.

WD

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Postby drape123 » Tue May 06, 2008 8:32 am

I just thought i'd shed some light about what i have learned from tuning with e85 over the past few years.. i run it on my 97 ka-t boosting 32psi making well over 500whp and man this is the poor mans race gas! I also run it on my j30 when it cant pass smog (great for smog btw)

Some of you may know i tune for and always recommend e85 if you have it locally.. there are a few things i tell everyone when converting over to e85

First thing you need is a wideband, it is very very important... i browse through this thread and see people knocking e85 saying it made their motor sound weird.. thats because you're burning a 19:1 afr you need more fuel.. approx 32% more

second thing you need is either a good retune or a alcohol tolerant FPR (e.g. aeromototive) after a few tanks of e85 you will need to change your fuel filter as all the crap built up in your tank will clean out and accumulate in it remember e85 is a solvent and will clean out all the deposits

now your car should run good.. now comes the tuning part (recommeded) for low throttle you want to tune to around 14.7:1 afr (gas scale) but WOT on boosted motors i have found out that 13:1 afr is about ideal when running e85.. higher octane allows you to run leaner safely

if you guys have any other questions about converting over to ethanol please dont hesitate to email/message me


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