E85 Conversion and Tuning Thread

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nelson8708
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Re: (nelson8708)

Postby nelson8708 » Sun May 24, 2009 7:27 pm

sorrowfulkiller wrote:it could very well be just the manifold, but I'm going to bet that your timing is a bit off though like someone else said.
i had the timing light on the car with it idling....15btdc


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Postby DrifterProdigy85 » Mon May 25, 2009 4:38 pm

Ive been looking at these Flex Fuel Kits they make now. How well do they work?

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Re: (DrifterProdigy85)

Postby sorrowfulkiller » Mon May 25, 2009 7:15 pm

DrifterProdigy85 wrote:Ive been looking at these Flex Fuel Kits they make now. How well do they work?
Don't bother with them, you'd be better off with 30% oversized injectors and an adjustable FPR so you can adjust the fuel pressure up or down to run gas or e85 and check your afr's with a wideband like the aem uego

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Re: (nelson8708)

Postby sorrowfulkiller » Mon May 25, 2009 7:18 pm

nelson8708 wrote:
i had the timing light on the car with it idling....15btdc
hmmm, seems low, but the again I come from subies so idk what the ka24de's run stock. A stock wrx runs like 42 degrees advanced at idle from the factory so It's quite a difference from what nissan's run I figure.

like I said, swap out the manifolds, see if there is any difference.

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Re: (DrifterProdigy85)

Postby nelson8708 » Mon May 25, 2009 9:19 pm

DrifterProdigy85 wrote:Ive been looking at these Flex Fuel Kits they make now. How well do they work?
you really dont need one in a 240sx. If you just wanting to run e85 in a stock ka24de i've seen people drop in sr 370's with no tuning and run e85 with no problems. You just need to change the tune if you want to run stock injectors. It can be done with the stocker's but, idc is probably 100% if you run stock fuel pressure.
sorrowfulkiller wrote:hmmm, seems low, but the again I come from subies so idk what the ka24de's run stock. A stock wrx runs like 42 degrees advanced at idle from the factory so It's quite a difference from what nissan's run I figure.

like I said, swap out the manifolds, see if there is any difference.
I found today that it wasn't the manifold when i pulled the old one off today. The turbo didn't spin very freely so i'm thinking that the restriction from the turbo is what caused the high heat. Since i already bought another manifold i'm going to swap anyways. I have a lot of work ahead of me to switch to this new manifold (DP, hot pipe, intake pipe, re-locate coil). I hope to have her back together in a month......going to rebuild the turbo also.....if its ok.

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Re: (nelson8708)

Postby sorrowfulkiller » Tue May 26, 2009 9:12 am

nelson8708 wrote:I found today that it wasn't the manifold when i pulled the old one off today. The turbo didn't spin very freely so i'm thinking that the restriction from the turbo is what caused the high heat. Since i already bought another manifold i'm going to swap anyways. I have a lot of work ahead of me to switch to this new manifold (DP, hot pipe, intake pipe, re-locate coil). I hope to have her back together in a month......going to rebuild the turbo also.....if its ok.
If you can, try taking apart the chra assembly, from there you will be able to find out if you need to change bearings and seals.

Get turbo rebuild kit, rebuild turbo, put it all back together.

Depending on what kind of turbo you have you're going to either need a very large snap ring pliers or just normal sockets to take off v-band clamps and bolts holding the compressor housing onto the chra housing.

In the turbo's I've taken apart, the compressor wheel stud was reverse threaded AKA lefty tighty righty loosy the turbo side should be normal style threaded.

I would ask a company that rebuilds turbos what sort of torque you should put on the compressor bolt when you rebuild so you don't have this problem again.

Another thing, if your turbo is only oil cooled plan on buying a turbo timer (ebay knockoffs work just fine) I would generally say to let it idle for atleast a minute even if you haven't been boosting.

My guess is that your oil is getting coked up in the bearings

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Re: (sorrowfulkiller)

Postby nelson8708 » Tue May 26, 2009 3:56 pm

sorrowfulkiller wrote:My guess is that your oil is getting coked up in the bearings
+1

I have everything apart except the chra....both fans look great. Time to get back on topic......i'm sure WD is about ready to lay the smack down...."Do you smell what the WD is cookin"

E85 clean burning FTW.


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Postby DrifterProdigy85 » Tue May 26, 2009 4:48 pm

How much HP can Dual Walbros support on e85? Im looking at upgrading to e85 for my T67 SR20. I need something 750hp Capable.

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Re: (nelson8708)

Postby sorrowfulkiller » Tue May 26, 2009 5:39 pm

nelson8708 wrote:+1

I have everything apart except the chra....both fans look great. Time to get back on topic......i'm sure WD is about ready to lay the smack down...."Do you smell what the WD is cookin"

E85 clean burning FTW.
this is one more reason I love e85, clean burning (releases 1/8 of the greenhouse gases that gasoline does)

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Re: (DrifterProdigy85)

Postby sorrowfulkiller » Tue May 26, 2009 5:45 pm

I'm not sure off the top of my head how much two walbro's can flow hp wise with e85, but all you really should need to know is how much fuel your target horsepower rating would need, multiply your fuel flow for that hp rating by 1.30 for 30% more flow because of e85 and figure out how many liters per hour that is.

1 Walbro can flow up to 255 lph, so 2 would be 510 lph.

Also for injectors if your using a boost referencing rising rate fuel pressure regulator you should take that into account before you buy injectors.

the rc engineering website should have all the info you need under their "injector sizing" area

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Re: (DrifterProdigy85)

Postby GTR PrYdE » Tue May 26, 2009 5:49 pm

I believe dual walbro's can hold around 700whp, pushing it...

you might want to look into an external fuel pump
DrifterProdigy85 wrote:How much HP can Dual Walbros support on e85? Im looking at upgrading to e85 for my T67 SR20. I need something 750hp Capable.

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Re: (DrifterProdigy85)

Postby nelson8708 » Wed May 27, 2009 11:19 am

DrifterProdigy85 wrote:How much HP can Dual Walbros support on e85? Im looking at upgrading to e85 for my T67 SR20. I need something 750hp Capable.
I know of two ka's that are making 700+whp and one rb26det making 800whp on e85 that are running dual walbro's They aren't having fuel pressure problems as of yet as far as i know. If you already have one walbro i would look into having a bosch 044 as a inline and the walbro feed it.

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Postby DrifterProdigy85 » Wed May 27, 2009 2:40 pm

Doesnt the Walbro pump just feed the inline pump? I didnt think it actually added into the flow rate.

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Postby DrifterProdigy85 » Thu May 28, 2009 12:26 am

Nevermind that last question, i found the answer.

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Postby slidewayz808 » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:25 am

i know this tread is old but has anyone ran e85 on a n/a ka with jus 370's, walbro, and increase timing??

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Re: (slidewayz808)

Postby GTR PrYdE » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:55 pm

You very well could, possibly without any fuel controller too- you'd just have to check afr's via wideband-

However- it'd be a waste of corn fuel on a stockish n/a setup, and def not enough fuel for any turbo app

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Postby slidewayz808 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:25 am

im asking because there is a gas station near me. so cheaper gas which lets me run alot more timing and keep my engine running cooler. i have all bolt-ons and the cam swap set-up.

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Postby float_6969 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:53 pm

Don't switch to E85 because you think it will save you money. On a completely stock motor, it won't. The decrease in fuel economy won't pay for the decrease in price.

Where E85 shines in a situation where you have exceeded the capabilities of pump gas. What I mean by this is that if you have to run more fuel &/ less timing to keep the motor from detonation due to the octane rating of your fuel, THEN E85 is a great option compared to race gas.

This is exactly the reason why flex fuel vehicles are basically a bad idea. They'll never get the fuel economy that the same sized gasoline engine will. BUT if you were to design a motor to run on purely E85, not only would you be able to make it smaller and lighter with out sacrificing power, but it would get at least the same, if not BETTER fuel economy than the gasoline engine it replaced.

And to really mess with your head, imagine coupling that idea with hybrid technology. You could literally have a 500cc engine with a 150hp/L output that gets gas mileage better than gasoline and weighs CONSIDERABLY less.

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Re: (slidewayz808)

Postby nelson8708 » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:22 pm

slidewayz808 wrote:im asking because there is a gas station near me. so cheaper gas which lets me run alot more timing and keep my engine running cooler. i have all bolt-ons and the cam swap set-up.
Throw a set of sohc pistons in there for a hi-comp build and then it might be worth running e85 so you dont have to pull timing.

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Postby slidewayz808 » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:09 pm

well i already rebuilt my motor with new rings and bearings so dont wanna pull it apart again lol. just wanted to try it since az is so damn hot, i wanted my motor to run cooler during those track days longer.

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Re: E85 Conversion and Tuning Thread

Postby KaTS13-614 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:28 pm

I know this is an old thread but y'all gotta get off Facebook. Lmao

I'm building the e85 Ka24det.

I'm using a MSPNP2. I'm using a sensor that reads the amount of ethanol in my fuel to adjust the map on the fly.

Basically I'm told I will be able to mix the two. It's sensors of a GM.

Last things to get are the 1000-1200cc injectors. Somewhere in the range. Then exhaust crap.

Did any of you guys stop smoking long enough to do it. Hahaha seriously did ya?!?

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Re: E85 Conversion and Tuning Thread

Postby GTR PrYdE » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:29 pm

Matt Cramer posts on ka-t.org (I'm probably not supposed to do that but he's new...)
I don't think MSpnp2 can run true flex fuel. You can just map switch. MS3 can map swap or interpolate IIRC. He recommended a DIYBOB if you end up getting MS3 instead. Good luck!

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Re: E85 Conversion and Tuning Thread

Postby KaTS13-614 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:20 am

Yea Matt and I correspond via email. It's supposed to be able to read the Gm flex sensor as per the content of ethanol. I will mainly run e85 with a splash of gas or that mystery oil.

I know I'm trying to revive a thread but this is the best thread I've found but haven't come across anyone that has done the conversion.

I'm intrigued for the power. The lower operating temps and no need to change cooling system. I'm not a tree hugger but I am in the green industry. I like when we can lower our footprint and go fast. Win win.

I'd like to know if anyone has completed their build and came up with any issues.

I literally have every part I have read I need. Matt squared me on a few things.

I have these parts

50mm disc for timing
Bkr5e plugs
Tial wastegate
Hks bov
Ic pipe
Fmic
Walbro 440
1000cc injectors
T3/t4 ar .50
Egr delete
V band adaptor for exhaust side 5 bolt
AEM uego wideband and gauge
Gm IAT sensor
Gm flex sensor
Sure I'm forgetting some stuff but I have to do exhaust piping and wastegate dump tube yet.

Otherwise I need oil feed and drain lines. Heat shielding. DIY master brake cylinder found here(stainless)

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Re: E85 Conversion and Tuning Thread

Postby cbird805 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 3:02 am

Question: Say I have a older Nissan (95 Q45) and converted to E85 capable, could I use E10/E15 without having to re-tune the vehicle? Or, once converted to E85, I have to fill up with E85 only?

As I understand it- fuel pump, fuel lines, and fuel injectors have to be resized for higher volume, besides being E85 capable. Also, a fuel map re-tune is necessary, and possibly a FRP upgrade. But, then is it an E85 or a Flex Fuel vehicle?

My reasoning for interest in E85 compatibility would be for the flexibility to be able to use any type gasoline that may be available. If they marketed an automobile engine that can run on any fuel that's generally available, I would be the first be stand in line to buy it. Speaking of flex fuel vehicles, M1 Abrams jet turbine engine is the only one i know that can run on almost anything- but the averages 14 gallons per mile!

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Re: E85 Conversion and Tuning Thread

Postby PapaSmurf2k3 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:31 am

You would need an ethanol content sensor and ECU capably of scaling the mapping in order to make it a true flex fuel vehicle.

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Re: E85 Conversion and Tuning Thread

Postby float_6969 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:37 am

Anything built since the mid-80's (or maybe it was late 70's?) is supposed to be able to tolerate up to 20% ethanol content (E20) without any modifications to anything.

Anything beyond that will require some kind of engine management/piggyback computer system to adjust the fuel injector pulsewidth and spark advance timing based on input from the flex fuel sensor.

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Re: E85 Conversion and Tuning Thread

Postby PapaSmurf2k3 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 4:07 pm

float_6969 wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:37 am
Anything built since the mid-80's (or maybe it was late 70's?) is supposed to be able to tolerate up to 20% ethanol content (E20) without any modifications to anything.
oooo I wouldn't make that claim. I thought it was late 80s, and the top end of the content was 10%.

You gotta remember, they were still making plenty of carbureted stuff til the mid 90s.

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Re: E85 Conversion and Tuning Thread

Postby float_6969 » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:45 pm

You're right. I just re-educated myself. The oil embargo started the push to use ethanol in fuels as an octane booster, but wasn't a mandate, and so it's hit-or-miss if a fuel system could tolerate it. It was generally limited to 10%. In the early 90's, MTBE was discovered to be polluting ground water, and by the early 2000's, was banned. Ethanol then became the most common octane booster at that point.

It's generally considered that any fuel injected fuel system will tolerate E10 without any modifications. Being in Kansas, it's finding fuel WITHOUT ethanol is very difficult. Almost everything is at least E10. I've had no fuel issues in any vehicle I've owned for the last 20 years having any issues with E10. That being said, they were all fuel injected.


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