Changing Knock Sensor on FGY33

[Mopar]

I stripped it Jack. The tail is stuck in it and the heads cut off. I'm going to drill it out tmorrow, rethread the hole and put a new bolt in. I will get the same bolt from a local pull a part. There is a Q there( if you would need parts I can get them for you).

I know i got a good amount of RTV on the edges where u pointed out, but am scared of the lower half moon not sitting in right , but am positive it did. I just couldnt visually see, but when i run my finger along the back edge of the rocker cover i can feel it, so i am guessing it is sittin nice and tight. I didnt go overboard on the rtv just a generous amount. Good right?

The reason i got frustrated is that i couldnt find a torque wrench that i needed. I went to 3 autozones and 1 pep boys and they all only carry those big ones. I brough one home to find out that the least setting on it was 120 ft/lbs. From my calculations with fsm i need one that will have 4.3 ft/lbs and cannot find a smaller one... , thats why i stripped the bolt. I came back home and not wanting to leave my engine open like that for the night i thought i would put it back on, in the order of fsm but first torque them lightly, then a little harder, and then would adjust when i getthe tool. And the most important one, the last 16th one snapped off :/...

I'm going to try to find a torque wrench tomorrow. Doing the other side. After im done with this, i will start building back everything together. I have practically cleaned everything on the engine. I am going to take time and clean/inspect everything while building back. Hopefully it will go smoother...

Can't wait to drive it again and feel the smoothness and the power of the Q again.

For now i need a very good torque wrench to find. Hey btw.. I saw some cheam 10 dollar one, with a scale underneath. It's not very occurate but can i use it?. I know my covers are not going to leak if im a lil off but i am worrying about the injectors, which u said require twice over and i want to get that right.

[maxnix]

I know i got a good amount of RTV on the edges where u pointed out, but am scared of the lower half moon not sitting in right , but am positive it did. I just couldnt visually see, but when i run my finger along the back edge of the rocker cover i can feel it, so i am guessing it is sittin nice and tight. I didnt go overboard on the rtv just a generous amount. Good right?

The reason i got frustrated is that i couldnt find a torque wrench that i needed. I went to 3 autozones and 1 pep boys and they all only carry those big ones. I brough one home to find out that the least setting on it was 120 ft/lbs. From my calculations with fsm i need one that will have 4.3 ft/lbs and cannot find a smaller one... ,

Feel and a mirror is all you can use. I have screwed this up before and had to redo it. The metal must be greaseless!

You are looking for a diamond at the county fair. Look on eBay for a proper SnapOn or equivalent. Even if you wrench every day, it is extremely difficult to judge 4.3 ft. lbs. It will be a ¼" drive.

[paranoidjack]

Honestly, more valve covers are installed by feel that by torque wrench. Although I agree with Brian, you're probalby not in the mood to snap up a $150 torque wrench to tighten 4.3 lbs/foot. Just do it by feel. I am scared telling you that since you "felt" one too hard already

BUT, very, very loose. I'm sure you seated the gasket right, it would be easy to tell if you didn't. Remember, worst case scenario, it leaks a little once you start it. If your bolts are too loose, you GENTLY tighten them. Best idea is just to install them, drive to a shop, and have someone torque them all for $20 since they have the right wrench.

[maxnix]

$100 off eBay is a cheap investment, and useful also for those low torques.

If you were Jack, I would lend you mine.

[Mopar]

I know Brian at this stage in life you can't trust anybody, even though it would save my a**!. Listen, VC i understand, I got the feel of it I know i wont mess it up again, but i need one for my injectors to be toraued correctly. I can go to the shop after putting it back together for the VCs, but I can't adjust the injectors later on... I'm screwed. I do not have the funds to buy a 100 dollar wrench from ebay. Ughhhhh!

[maxnix]

I am using mine now, any rentals in your area, or take it by a shop and slip the tech some cash.

[paranoidjack]

Thanks Brian, same here

Importance of the torque figure is SLIGHTLY less important than consistent torque across all bolts! Both are important, but if you MUST do it manually, consistency is very important, even if they are torqued a bit tighter than they should be. This is so far from my ideology though, it hurts to even type it...

The right thing to do is buy a torque wrench - might I suggest the shady "purchase and return?" I can't return tools, despite the fact that I try to...they always end up in my basement

[maxnix]

And clean that VC! Mobil 1 leaves a much better result.

[OwnerCS]

Harbor Freight usually has a torque wrench at the $20 (and change) price point.

Consider anything you break a learning experience as YOU are saving a ton of money and learning as compared to some dealer providing on-the-job training at your expense.

The dealer that performed the 60,000 mile service on my Q stripped one of the VC bolts. I had to "tap it out" to get a bolt started when I put mine back together. Also I found the bolts located at those hard to reach places (near firewall) were basically finger tight.

Note the dealer didn't bother to clean off the factory RTV before installing new. Somehow I don't think RTV gets better with age..

You can see the half moons I removed have a combination of blue RTV from the factory and some brown from the dealer. I have the dealer receipt and name of the mechanic that apparently doesn't bother to clean off old RTV. Ha!

See some pictures from last fall about "Half Moons from an Half Azz Job".

ALSO, the mechanic didn't bother to remove/scrape the old RTV from the VCs before smearing on some new.

[paranoidjack]

...and that's why I do all my work myself. Not only is the quality better, but I can still purchase tools for each job and STILL come out less than it would have cost me to pay someone else to do a worse job.

[Mopar]

Alrighty. Today I did the other VC. I got the hang of it. I cleaned the old stuff out (i wish i took a pic of it) and I smeared the RTV and put it all back together. I made sure i did it with the sequence in fsm. I got the hang of how much to tighten them by getting a feel of the bolt tightness when i took it apart. I have to say I came damn close to torqueing. I bought one cheap from autozone but im sure that wont help me to put the KS and the injector rails on. I need a more precise one, if i can find one.

The bolt that i stripped, came out easy with the drill and i rethreaded it and put a new better looking bolt in. I found one very close to oem at the autozone. I am satisfied since i can tell it is doing it's job on the edge of the VC. i i not strip any more of them

Can someone please show me in the fsm how those 2 torque? I couldnt find the numbers.

Overall I have to say it's a steady pace. I put new spark plugs in, cleaned my coils and put those back together. Now all is left is putting the KSs on and going from there. Any advice is appreciated guys. If you guys help me Tomorrow i will have this thing running by night.

Off to a warm shower and a bottle or two of beer.

[maxnix]

Yeah, dealer and shop work doesn't include all the cleaning and care that is required to do the job right. I have found lots of dealer mistakes on my cars.

[Mopar]

1) Well, thanks to my overload of school work I did not work on the Q today. I chose to rather make a plan and study what I need to do in order to be done with it fast when I get a chance to work on it. I realized that the VC bolts were the only ones requiring such low end torques. My trouble was I couldn't find a wrench that had such low settings. All of them started the minimum of 5 ft/lbs. But reviewing the Injectors, I realized that on page EC-33 it says to tighten them first to 6.9-8.0 ft/lbs and then 15-20 ft/lbs(is this correct?). For these settings, I can get one from the local NAPA. I am assuming, those torque values are for the bolts circled in red in the picture. But what is the green bolt circled?


2) Also, I could not find in the FSM as to how much the Knock Sensor should be torqued. If someone can tell me the page number. I know that the KS relies on perfect torque to operate.

3) Besides the injectors and the KS is there anything else that requires precise torque? or can I just tighten them?

I don't think I have much more left to do. Honestly, I have been studying the FSM, and like you guys said, it's starting to click to me now how everything connects/works. I don't think it is going to take me more than 2 hours to finish it off.

Thanks guys!

[maxnix]

1.) I think that is a standard nut. Torques are listed for nuts and bolts in a table in the FSM. GI-45 in 2000 FSM.

2.) KS bolts are 12-15 ft. lbs. per the 1995 FSM. Same KS.

3.) Well, when torquing onto an aluminum anchored stud or into an aluminum seated bolt, I say everything. SBC experience doesn't help much here. All those bolts and nuts have torque values for a reason. TB and plenum fittings in particular. If the component has a gasket, torque must be in correct sequence at the correct sequential levels to evenly seat and seal the gaskets. Beware cheap torque wrenches as the values are not well calibrated across the range of the torque wrench. This is why one doesn't want to use an improperly calibrated one. Cheap is not good when it comes to calibrated instruments. Oh, and use anti-seize lubricant. Torques are always wet torques.

No mention of the EGR tube? It must be perfectly clean and smooth as it loads up with coke quickly at cruise.

[Mopar]

By the EGR tube you mean the small hard line tube? I tried cleaning it but its hard to get in it?

[paranoidjack]

Loving this tag-team effort to get Mopar going again!

If I can't make it in, Brian does, and vice versa!

Keep up the good work.

Yes, the EGR tube must be REMOVED from the plenum when the plenum is OUT to clean properly. There are gaskets on the back you'll need to replace also.

[maxnix]

Dremel with wand and 45° metal brush and lots of Chem Tool is the only thing I have found to work.

Or replace it. But then you will want to clean that one also at no later than 50K miles, which means plenum comes off.

[Mopar]

Guys... Words can't express how thankful I am for your help. Without you guys I wouldn't even had done this job at all....

Ok. The dreaded torque wrench is coming tomorrow from the freight store. I found one in the neghboring city.

Funny how I have talked to different mechanics out of curiosity and they all agreed to do it until they heard Q45 and started mumbling. Really shows how much even mechanics know about the Q. One was brave enough to call back and say he can tackle it (he found the fsm here online haha) but I turned him down.

[maxnix]

You were smart. Double check everything as you assemble it. The pages with torque values are there for a reason. Most "mechanics" will torque to feel to beat the book rate and earn a living. Or not tighten at all.

[slownlow718]

DID U FINISH THIS PROJECT IM GONNA TACKLE THIS NEXT WEEK

[paranoidjack]

Yeah, he sure will! Not quite done yet but taking his time doing it right.

Be sure to read this whole thread and also this one:

fgy33-plenum-removal-56k-beware-adding- ... ough%204.1

Let us know if you have any issues.

[Mopar]

I still have to put the plenum and intake on. Waiting for free time to do it. It should take me couple of hours. I'll post problems that i ran into it will help you from headache. For now, even before you take it apart, make sure you have a low setting torque wrench IN YOU HANDS before you do anything.

[paranoidjack]

don't forget:
Small bracket 2 12 mm bolts on rear of plenum(s)
Attach EGR pipe BEFORE seating plenum on runners.
Seat the small TB coolant lines properly.

oh, and UPLOAD your photos so others may benefit in the future from your shots (harness orientation/hose routing, etc).

[Mopar]

Hey good news! got the torque wrench from the freight store!

I'm finishing this tomorrow. Can somebody show me the sequence for the lower runner bolts and the manifold bolts? I don't seem to be able to find the order of their tightening and their torque values.

Excited to see how Q is going to run tomorrow. I am expecting a big change in drivability and hope to have that V8 power back again!

enlighten me please!

[maxnix]

Start in center and go out while switching sides. torque up in 3 steps to be even. New gasket a must.

[Mopar]

nvm my last post. I figured it out. However, you know the assembly under the plenum that has hoses and everything under it, with an orange and black harness connectors. I do not have pix of where those little hoses connect to, especially the one that comes toward the front of the engine. Can anybody help?

[Mopar]

Jack can you please share with me some of your photos. Some of them from your walk through are not showing anymore. I am putting the lower runner back on and can't tell where the hoses go. My pictures are not of use :/ I wanna finish this today

[Mopar]

Come on guys I have the lower runners and injectors back on already. All I need is just some pix to show where everything goes don't leave me hanging!

[maxnix]

I haven't been under the lower plenum yet so I can't help.

Is it a water hose or a vacuum hose or a intake hose? Think systems and how they work and I am sure it will become obvious to you where it needs to be connected.

[OwnerCS]

I've got so many pictures from a G50 plenum job -- but it looks so different that I would not want to confuse you with that setup.

Hopefully Jack will be back online soon..

I think I could use the pictures from Jack's thread below and work backwards.

fgy33-plenum-removal-56k-beware-adding- ... ough%204.1