Bill Maher on tax increases...

[AZhitman]

That creates a whole new problem though.

To adapt the wages would need to be increased. Corporations are already so greedy that they have been eliminating wage increases for the past year or two.

We currently have nothing in place that accounts for cost of living increases. Corporations are a free to do as they please.

Federal minimum wage is an absolute joke.

No, they don't.

The market works. Stay out of the way. If you mandate higher pay (artificial influence on the market), the market will backlash in some other manner.

Bad things happen when you try to manipulate things that have a natural order... like nature and the economy.

[Encryptshun]

And this, PMQ, is where you'll start to see the right and left seriously disagree. The right will say that if you aren't happy with minimum wage, you are free to go work for a job that pays more. The left will say that, if you are earning minimum wage, chances are you don't have the hours in the day to both survive and go get the type of education or experience you need in order to actually break through the poverty glass ceiling and GET that new job.

Both sides are equally wrong.

[AZhitman]

And this, PMQ, is where you'll start to see the right and left seriously disagree. The right will say that if you aren't happy with minimum wage, you are free to go work for a job that pays more. The left will say that, if you are earning minimum wage, doing the bare minimum at work, laying on your sofa smoking a joint and watching Spongebob, playing Halo, surfing p0rn, and texting your buddies, chances are you don't have the hours in the day to both survive and go get the type of education or experience you need in order to actually break through the poverty glass ceiling and GET that new job.

FTFY.

[PoorManQ45]

No, they don't.

The market works. Stay out of the way. If you mandate higher pay (artificial influence on the market), the market will backlash in some other manner.

Bad things happen when you try to manipulate things that have a natural order... like nature and the economy.

I am against government intervention in this case, but corporations have gotten out of control.

I am referring to non-union states as unions are horrid too...

I am not sure what can be done in this situation.

[AZhitman]

If I am a Corporation, you'd propose to "control" me?

Uhhh, no. The market will "control" corporations. As long as a company is acting within the boundaries of the law, you have no complaint. They answer to the stakeholders, not outsiders. Want some say? Get on their board of directors.

I see what you're getting at, but "corporations" aren't the Big Bad Wolf. You've been misled. Ask Jesda who you should be upset with.

[PoorManQ45]

Uhhh, no. The market will "control" corporations. As long as a company is acting within the boundaries of the law, you have no complaint. They answer to the stakeholders, not outsiders. Want some say? Get on their board of directors.

I think part of the problem is that the boundaries of corporations have been extended world wide.

It is so appealing for companies to move their production offshore. This eliminates the jobs of US workers.

Once the manufacturing jobs are gone you are left with service jobs.

If a company can go elsewhere to get things made, why shouldn't they go elsewhere for the services too? And that's exactly what is happening.

Americans are demanding more money. Companies don't want to pay. So they move elsewhere...

Then the company that moved all its business offshore comes and sells the products here.

Unfortunately Americans float on credit... So things are a little skewed.

Something needs to be done either an incentive for companies to stay in the USA.

[Encryptshun]

And this, PMQ, is where you'll start to see the right and left seriously disagree. The right will say that if you aren't happy with minimum wage, you are free to go work for a job that pays more. The left will say that, if you are earning minimum wage, doing the bare minimum at work, laying on your sofa smoking a joint and watching Spongebob, playing Halo, surfing p0rn, and texting your buddies, chances are you don't have the hours in the day to both survive and go get the type of education or experience you need in order to actually break through the poverty glass ceiling and GET that new job.

FTFY.

The left would never admit that and you know it.

Seriously, though, I'm surprised (and a little saddened) that you might actually believe this. People all over are different, but thinking that the only people who work minimum-wage jobs are slackers is really REALLY tokenist. And especially by someone who loves to dig at people who accept government aid.

[themadscientist]

Another important question: What is the American dream?

A clean pair of pants fresh out of the dryer.

[D1SR240]

3. Corporate tax policy in the US is typically friendlier than Japan and the EU,

All though this has been true in the past, not so much anymore. Most EU countries have lower corporate tax rates than the US.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/blog/show/26470.html

All though Japan has a lower corporate tax rate than the US, the effective rate (once you factor Inhabitant and Enterprise tax) is usually a bit higher than the US effective corporate tax rate (this varies state to state).

But this just further supports your point that US corps have more incentive to move out of the US.

[Encryptshun]

Another important question: What is the American dream?

A clean pair of pants fresh out of the dryer.

That is probably the best advertising slogan I've heard in a decade.

Open on fresh-faced young people romping through grass at the side of a lake on a clear warm day.

Cue music.

Audio: "What is the American Dream?"

Pan in on pair of lovers walking hand-in-hand, pan down and left to 3/4 rear profile of young man's khakis, cut/move to rear profile of young woman's hip pressing up to young man's crotch, then up to their smiling faces as they share some secret joke.

Music swells.

Audio: "Nice Pants."

"Made in America. Available whereever dreams are sold."

Music fade on a sustained chord in a major key.

Fade out.

[Jesda]

I swear I'm not trying to be flippant or snide here, but the assumption that there is one ubiquitous answer to a question like "What is the American dream" is exactly why many Americans feel railroaded by forces they can neither avoid nor influence.

That's very true, and its what I'm trying to get at.

Over half a century ago, the mainstream American Dream was easy to define:
A gaggle of kids
A new car every couple years [Unless you were black.]
A house in the suburbs [Unless you were black.]
A steady job [Unless you were black.]
A comfortable home [Unless you were black.]
A comfortable lifestyle [Unless you were black.]



Even those who were uneducated could find manufacturing jobs or work as craftsmen with enough income and a low enough cost of living to support their families. The counter to this is that they didn't enjoy the quality of life we have now thanks to technology, homes were smaller, and energy was cheaper.

Globalism is what it is -- you can't singularly label it as good or bad, as the negatives come with just as many positives, and opportunities are far greater.

Americans are clinging to a belief that they're entitled to what previous generations enjoyed, but previous generations didn't have to deal with the outside world in a context beyond war.

Moral of the story: To survive, we have to compete.

[Encryptshun]

Very well stated, Jesda.

Today the American Dream is sponsored and shaped by marketing agencies who are paid to push product on us by the same corporations who would rather pay us just enough for our services so that we can afford to buy the products we make (after a small employee discount).

I agree that competition is a social and biological imperative -- but the healthiest competition is inter-society and not intra-society. Intra-society competition is still just inbreeding at the end of the day.

[Jesda]

Another important question: What is the American dream?

A clean pair of pants fresh out of the dryer.

BALLER

[AZhitman]

Seriously, though, I'm surprised (and a little saddened) that you might actually believe this. People all over are different, but thinking that the only people who work minimum-wage jobs are slackers is really REALLY tokenist. And especially by someone who loves to dig at people who accept government aid.

You should know me better.

Upon second read, I should have clarified that this behavior has no partisan affiliation.

Let me re-do it:

if you are earning minimum wage, doing the bare minimum at work, laying on your sofa smoking a joint and watching Spongebob, playing Halo, surfing p0rn, and texting your buddies, you don't have any room to whine about wages or lack of opportunity.

[Encryptshun]

Seriously, though, I'm surprised (and a little saddened) that you might actually believe this. People all over are different, but thinking that the only people who work minimum-wage jobs are slackers is really REALLY tokenist. And especially by someone who loves to dig at people who accept government aid.

You should know me better.

Upon second read, I should have clarified that this behavior has no partisan affiliation.

Let me re-do it:

if you are earning minimum wage, doing the bare minimum at work, laying on your sofa smoking a joint and watching Spongebob, playing Halo, surfing p0rn, and texting your buddies, you don't have any room to whine about wages or lack of opportunity.

Ah, now see THAT'S a different thing completely and I could not agree more.

[PoorManQ45]

if you are earning minimum wage, doing the bare minimum at work, laying on your sofa smoking a joint and watching Spongebob, playing Halo, surfing p0rn, and texting your buddies, you don't have any room to whine about wages or lack of opportunity.

Still doesn't address all the greedy companies.

What about those people that come to work, exceed metrics, stay late, and still get shafted because they're lumped in with everyone else? Kind of sucks.

But hey, that's where evil unions come in... Then the pendulum swings way to far the other way and gives everyone a raise, even the ones you described

[Jesda]

If you think a company is greedy, Don't buy their products and don't work for them.

[PoorManQ45]

If you think a company is greedy, Don't buy their products and don't work for them.

Boycotts have been proven not to work...

[RCA]

but you trust politicians? K i'm out LOL

No but I do realize we need to raise taxes.

But please, I would love to hear your plan.

[RobPaulson]

But please, I would love to hear your plan.

my plan? my plan is a bit radical and people tend to freak out when i mention a 'consumption tax'. But I believe the answer to this (and my theory actually does play a bit into your theory that the richer you get the less you deserve your money) is to completely abandon the tax system as it is now and institute a consumption tax on all goods and services.

necessary things for living would be taxed significantly less than luxury items. They key to this is that the overall percentage of taxes being implemented would be able to be MUCH lower than they are now simply because it will be SIGNIFICANTLY harder to avoid taxes. When I say avoid taxes, I mean illegals and tourists. Can you imagine if we got 15-25% of all the money spent on goods/services from tourists and illegals who now pay absolutely zero income tax to the government?

but, that is never going to happen in the US. Unfortunately.

[IBCoupe]

A minor correction: more than half of illegal immigrants pay income taxes.

http://www.cis.org/node/54#executive

[RCA]

The market works. Stay out of the way. If you mandate higher pay (artificial influence on the market), the market will backlash in some other manner. Bad things happen when you try to manipulate things that have a natural order... like nature and the economy....

The market will "control" corporations. As long as a company is acting within the boundaries of the law, you have no complaint.

The rules of the market aren't based on nature; they are dictated by people.

As for staying out of the way:
http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/moen.panic.1907
http://eh.net/encyclopedia/article/Bierman.Crash
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/GreatDepression.html
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/ec ... lation.asp
http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/feds ... 713pap.pdf
http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/arti ... tween.html
http://www.scribd.com/doc/22577017/Amer ... ial-Frauds

Just some of the major ones...

[RobPaulson]

A minor correction: more than half of illegal immigrants pay income taxes.

http://www.cis.org/node/54#executive

I never said ALL illegals dont pay taxes.

Can you imagine if we got 15-25% of all the money spent on goods/services from tourists and illegals who now pay absolutely zero income tax to the government?

i am very aware SOME illegals pay taxes. my point is, there are still grimey snake f*** illegals who don't, imagine if the tax was unavoidable in order to survive? according to your statement, the tax revenue from illegals would nearly DOUBLE.

[IBCoupe]

Oooh. I see what you did there. Sneaky monkey. Multiple usages of "who."

[RobPaulson]

Oooh. I see what you did there. Sneaky monkey. Multiple usages of "who."

I'd seriously love to learn how illegals pay income tax without getting 'found out' and deported though. Dont you need some kind of official identification in order to contribute to the tax system? I have to put a SSN etc on my taxes, how do they get around this??

^^ pardon any sarcastic undertones you may perceive, i'm being serious.

[AppleBonker]

A minor correction: more than half of illegal immigrants pay income taxes.

http://www.cis.org/node/54#executive

Up-front apology for my ignorance, and that link was too long for me to fish through. But how do more than half of illegals pay income taxes? I just have no idea how the system is setup to account for this. If you don't want to explain and have a link that deals with this more specifically, I would appreciate it. Thanks!

Edit: I posted to slow...

[marlin29311]

A minor correction: more than half of illegal immigrants pay income taxes.

http://www.cis.org/node/54#executive

Do they contribute to Social Security, Medicare, etc? (or is that all built into income tax...I dunno)

[IBCoupe]

Their employers pay payroll taxes, because somewhere in the neighborhood of half of all illegal immigrants actually work on the books.

Payroll Taxes. There are four main payroll taxes collected by the federal government: income, Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment Compensation. The Current Population Survey contains income tax and Social Security tax liabilities calculated by the Census Bureau for all tax-paying units in the Survey. In short, the Census Bureau uses data from the American Housing Survey, the Income Survey Development Program, and the Internal Revenue Service and combines this information with CPS data to create simulations of tax liabilities for all persons reporting income.17 We use the tax liability estimates from the Census Bureau to calculate federal income and Social Security tax liability for each household.18 We calculate both Medicare and Unemployment tax as a share of earning. Again, both the employee and employer share are assigned to households because previous research indicates that even the employer share of payroll taxes is ultimately borne by workers.

The article I linked to estimates that about 45% have no income tax liability.

[IBCoupe]

Do they contribute to Social Security, Medicare, etc? (or is that all built into income tax...I dunno)

In fact, they do. And those are the two areas that illegal immigrants are a net positive on, because they can't collect, but still pay in through payroll taxes.

[RobPaulson]

because somewhere in the neighborhood of half of all illegal immigrants actually work on the books.

how do illegals work 'on the books' without being exposed and deported?