Bill Maher on tax increases...

[AppleBonker]

But how do illegals work on the books? Isn't that a problem for an employer? I thought you couldn't hire them...

DAMN YOU GERRY!!!

[RobPaulson]

[Alfador]

Maher is the same jackass who wined about not getting an Emmy and blamed it on Christianity. All of his material is either completely self serving or the typical LCD nonsense most of the pundits dump out. Maybe if he didn't openly mock everyone else's religious beliefs like some kind of self righteous white knight he would have one. Then again, probably not, because his material just isn't that good anyway.

Do they contribute to Social Security, Medicare, etc? (or is that all built into income tax...I dunno)

In fact, they do. And those are the two areas that illegal immigrants are a net positive on, because they can't collect, but still pay in through payroll taxes.

The payroll tax argument is flawed. That's only about half the total tax that position of employment is generating, and they aren't "paying it." When you negotiate a 30,000 a year salary, you are accounting for personal income and payroll taxes being taken out. You are not counting your employer's obligation to match it. That is a tax on the employer, not the employee. That's like saying I paid the sales tax on my car because the dealership pays a tax on the sale.

[IBCoupe]

Know a lot of illegal immigrants who are negotiating salaries?

[IBCoupe]

But how do illegals work on the books? Isn't that a problem for an employer? I thought you couldn't hire them...

DAMN YOU GERRY!!!

This would assume that we're actually looking at the payrolls of businesses to check citizenship status.

[AppleBonker]

We aren't?

[IBCoupe]

Not from what I've heard...

...don't think the IRS has a reason to.

[RobPaulson]

dont they have to fill out tax forms every year to account for the income tax they have paid throughout it?

I do. If they do not, I'd love to know how to get around that. And if they arent getting around it, because its not required of them, why is it not required of them? They must not be paying the same income taxes i am . . . amiwrong?

[IBCoupe]

If they were filing, they would have to, Rob. But the way illegal immigrants pay taxes is by having it withheld from their pay and sent in along with all the other taxes an employer gives to the IRS on an employee's behalf.

They get around doing it by not filing the returns. IRS can't tax you if it can't find you.

[RobPaulson]

so employers pay taxes on behalf (and out of) the employee's check. but they dont have to file, like i do, because they have no legal identity in this country. so... this doesnt send up red flags in the IRS?

I'm not trying to be difficult here, I just find it hard to believe there is this big of a loophole in this system. well . . . maybe hard to believe is the wrong phrase, maybe . . . well, i dont even know. at a bit of a lose of words due to the stupidity being explained to me right now. (not that your stupid, but the system)

[IBCoupe]

I'm sure it does send up red flags when it's noticed. The IRS only audits between 2 and 5% of all returns, and they try to do it tactically - they go after tax law professors and barber shops, 'cause they know the word will spread, and people will think they audit more than they actually do.

It's a pretty weak agency that likes to look tough.

[Alfador]

Know a lot of illegal immigrants who are negotiating salaries?

Irrelevant. The bottom line is a payroll tax paid by the business is a tax on the business, ancillary to the tax paid by the employee. To compare them is just plain stupid, like, smash yourself in the skull with a hammer stupid. I fail to see how anyone with even moderate common sense could come to the failed conclusion that the FRACTION of tax that employers is the employee paying his share of taxes.

[RobPaulson]

[PoorManQ45]

If they were filing, they would have to, Rob. But the way illegal immigrants pay taxes is by having it withheld from their pay and sent in along with all the other taxes an employer gives to the IRS on an employee's behalf.

They get around doing it by not filing the returns. IRS can't tax you if it can't find you.

Why would they do that?

It would make more sense to claim 3~5 exemptions to eliminate almost all tax withholding.

so employers pay taxes on behalf (and out of) the employee's check. but they dont have to file, like i do, because they have no legal identity in this country. so... this doesnt send up red flags in the IRS?

You don't have to file if you have met the required tax payments based on your income.

It's when you don't pay enough that you have an issue.

[D1SR240]

I'm sure it does send up red flags when it's noticed. The IRS only audits between 2 and 5% of all returns, and they try to do it tactically - they go after tax law professors and barber shops, 'cause they know the word will spread, and people will think they audit more than they actually do.

It's a pretty weak agency that likes to look tough.

Actually the IRS has certain triggers that they look for, but these triggers change year to year. For example a trigger could be something like royalty income, and if you have royalty income in the year that it is a trigger you would have a much higher chance of getting audited than someone who doesn't have royalty income.

I would not say it is a weak agency by any means. Failure to file substantial income or fraudulent reporting has no statute of limitations. So if you failed to file $1,000,000 30 years ago and the IRS just noticed today they could still come after you. I don't think that anyone would argue that Al Capone was not guilty of multiple violent crimes, but what's the thing that actually sent him to jail? Tax evasion. Everyone, from an actor such as Wesley Snipes to your neighborhood dentist, can go to jail for tax evasion.

The IRS has even somewhat cracked into Swiss bank accounts to try and catch tax evadors. As many know, for hundreds of years Swiss bank accounts have been kept super private and secretive under Swiss banking law. There really isn't an agency out there that can just go to a Swiss bank and demand customer account information - except now for the IRS apparently.

Sure the IRS probably won't come after you if you fail to report $500 of capital gains, or all the the tips you made working as a server, but to say that it's a weak agency that just likes to look tough is a pretty innacurate descprition.

[IBCoupe]

Okay, let me be more clear, D1; it's a weak agency because it doesn't have the ability to go after everyone that fails to file properly. It has the statutory capacity to do a great deal of damage to any one individual, but there's a lot of individuals, and they don't nearly have the power required to regulate everyone. That's why they, again, only audit between 2 and 5% of all returns.

[IBCoupe]

Irrelevant. The bottom line is a payroll tax paid by the business is a tax on the business, ancillary to the tax paid by the employee. To compare them is just plain stupid, like, smash yourself in the skull with a hammer stupid. I fail to see how anyone with even moderate common sense could come to the failed conclusion that the FRACTION of tax that employers is the employee paying his share of taxes.

Here's a list of payroll taxes, which show up on an electronic paystub as being taken out of your (the employee's) paycheck:
1. Income tax withholding (read this one twice, if it will help)
2. Social Security
3. Medicare

You could arguably see unemployment taxes as a function of employee wages, being that they're determined by them, though it's a tax technically paid by the employer. Honestly, dude, what do you think a "payroll tax" is? It's a collection of individual taxes that employers are required to take out of an employee's wages in order to ensure that the IRS gets its money. It streamlines the system. Here's the question you need to ask: if employers weren't required to pay the money to the IRS, where would it go? The answer with the above examples is "into the employee's paycheck."

These aren't things that an employer says, "Hm, I think I'll pay them less because I'll have to pay taxes on it," or at least, that's not the way it legally works. These are things that an employer says, "Hm, I have to diminish this paycheck by this much and give what I took out to the IRS." The money paid to the IRS belongs to the employee, not the employer. It's part of the employee's paycheck, and that's why it gets taken out from there. If it were a tax levied upon employers, it would happen twice, as an employee still has to pay income taxes.

[RCA]

Maher is the same jackass who wined about not getting an Emmy and blamed it on Christianity. All of his material is either completely self serving or the typical LCD nonsense most of the pundits dump out. Maybe if he didn't openly mock everyone else's religious beliefs like some kind of self righteous white knight he would have one. Then again, probably not, because his material just isn't that good anyway.

So you have no problem with Stephen Schwarzman comparing the tax hike to Germany invading Poland?

Something tells me you're religion and got but hurt when you saw "Religulous".

[themadscientist]

The agnostic over here says Maher is a jackass as well. His attacks on Christianity offend me and I don't even subscribe to that religion. Maher is a self-righteous tool who mocks anyone who does not agree with him. You are not allowed to have a different opinion with him. You are "stupid." Is it any wonder he and Ann Coulter have a grudging respect of each other. He's like a more aggressive version of Gennean Garafolo. They both think they are funny and they just peddle hatred. Neither one has made me laugh in more than a decade.
His mouth needs a fist shoved in it.

[AZhitman]

Still doesn't address all the greedy companies.

I hate people who see anyone as "greedy".

Leaving money on the table means you can employ less people, pay them less, and have to charge more for your product / service.

Monks take a vow of poverty, not business owners. And before you start dictating how much is "enough", keep in mind that it works both ways - if you think I should only be compensated X amount as a business owner, then I think you should live on $ .39 a day as punishment for not minding your own business.

Any true defender of freedom will stay the F out of other people's bank books.

[AZhitman]

The agnostic over here says Maher is a jackass as well. His attacks on Christianity offend me and I don't even subscribe to that religion. Maher is a self-righteous tool who mocks anyone who does not agree with him. You are not allowed to have a different opinion with him. You are "stupid." Is it any wonder he and Ann Coulter have a grudging respect of each other. He's like a more aggressive version of Gennean Garafolo. They both think they are funny and they just peddle hatred. Neither one has made me laugh in more than a decade.
His mouth needs a fist shoved in it.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

He's a self-important b**** who looks down his nose at people, a lot of whom are far smarter (and happier) than him.

He's gonna be a sad little not-funny man when the people he's been pandering to realize they've been backing the wrong horse.

Janine Garofolo would be relevant if she actually read anything more than a screenplay once in a while.

I've often said, if someone's advice was worth a s***, they'd be getting paid to share it with those in power.

[AZhitman]

A minor correction: more than half of illegal immigrants THAT WE KNOW OF pay income taxes.

FTFY. Seriously, IB - We don't wanna go there in here. Read up on e-Verify and see what a failure it is.

Our illegals are working under the table and for cash. Period.

Oh, and I'm in AZ. We know illegal.

[Jesda]

Janine Garofolo would be relevant if she actually read anything more than a screenplay once in a while.

Her role as the bowler in Mystery Men is enough for me to overlook her other flaws... until she talks.

[IBCoupe]

Wet Hot American Summer.

[PoorManQ45]

I hate people who see anyone as "greedy".

Leaving money on the table means you can employ less people, pay them less, and have to charge more for your product / service.

Monks take a vow of poverty, not business owners. And before you start dictating how much is "enough", keep in mind that it works both ways - if you think I should only be compensated X amount as a business owner, then I think you should live on $ .39 a day as punishment for not minding your own business.

Any true defender of freedom will stay the F out of other people's bank books.

Sorry, maybe greedy isn't the right would then.

I understand what you're saying. It makes sense for the company to do what they can to maximize profit.

Unfortunately our government has helped, or rather, encouraged companies to do this.

What is your viewpoint on the government helping companies increase profits at the cost of American jobs?

[RobPaulson]

So you have no problem with Stephen Schwarzman comparing the tax hike to Germany invading Poland?

Something tells me you're religion and got but hurt when you saw "Religulous".

wow you just lost alot of my respect with that comment LOL, bill maher is a f*** joke, no better/worse than o'rielly or beck.

has nothing to do with religulous either, so dont pull that retourt with me, i absolutely loved the movie, its the most sound 2 hours of him speaking that he has even published. beyond that, he is just an entertainer capitalizing on fools like you who buy into his HUMOR. give me a break.

[Alfador]

Maher is the same jackass who wined about not getting an Emmy and blamed it on Christianity. All of his material is either completely self serving or the typical LCD nonsense most of the pundits dump out. Maybe if he didn't openly mock everyone else's religious beliefs like some kind of self righteous white knight he would have one. Then again, probably not, because his material just isn't that good anyway.

So you have no problem with Stephen Schwarzman comparing the tax hike to Germany invading Poland?

Something tells me you're religion and got but hurt when you saw "Religulous".

It's amusing that you make such petty assumptions with no basis in fact.

No. Honestly, I'm not religious. When I'm pressed on the issue by zealots I 'd categorize myself as agnostic. Who am I to say what is or isn't out there? You can't prove god exists to a skeptic anymore than you can prove he doesn't to a faithful. Some might characterize me as a quiet atheist (the kind who doesn't go around harassing people just for having religion). The truth of the matter is I really don't give two s***.

I'm here, now, and my belief of disbelief in a purportedly magical Jew isn't going to change the fact that I need to get up, go to work every morning, and earn my keep. It doesn't change the fact that something either offends my sensibilities or does not, and it does not change the fact that Bill Maher is a jackass, and people who belittle someone else just because of their religious beliefs are hypocrites barely better than organized hate groups like the KKK. The fact of the matter is someone has a belief structure different than yours, and for that, you hate them, possibly fear them, and belittle them for it.

Hypocrites like you make ridiculous straw man analogies to make those you disagree with look unreasonable, and it's just sad. It's hilarious that you inject what you claim to be my opinion into an argument when I have said no such thing, nor given any indicator that I believe it in the least. People who do that usually don't have anything of value to say so they just need to resort to hyperbole and logical fallacy to get their point across in the most asinine way possible. You may as well just go around calling people's mothers whores for all the good it will do

. Honestly, Stephen Schwarzman is just another rhetorical jackass, no different than Bill Maher. He just happens to be on a different end of the spectrum, and he doesn't get as much attention because he hasn't played the martyr card and cried about everyone hating him because he's a biggot like Maher did.

[AZhitman]

What is your viewpoint on the government helping companies increase profits at the cost of American jobs?

I'd need examples. That's not a very well-worded question.

[Alfador]

I suppose the option alternative to a company maximizing profits would be a company willfully paying people they don't need to do a job more inefficiently. Sounds a lot like the federal government if you ask me.

[RCA]

wow you just lost alot of my respect with that comment LOL, bill maher is a f**king joke, no better/worse than o'rielly or beck.

has nothing to do with religulous either, so dont pull that retourt with me, i absolutely loved the movie, its the most sound 2 hours of him speaking that he has even published. beyond that, he is just an entertainer capitalizing on fools like you who buy into his HUMOR. give me a break.

Who was talking to you?

Look was it an assumption, yes. But you are dramatic.
In all fairness, I haven't seen much of Bill's stuff though. I saw a few Politically Incorrect episode when I was younger and I saw Religulous, so I don't have much history on Bill. I think he has a good point regardless of what his past is. I think people are judging biasedly.