Though I am looking forward to having an intercooler setup in good time, I'm unsure of how well intercooling/aftercooling would work for the average person buying this kit whom isn't looking to eventually dial up the boost... it's to my understanding a loss up to 2-3psi can be expected from the latter methods of cooling the intake air (some power is regained by the much cooler intake charge however). Combined with no longer being able to fit the FSTB (unless we can figure out a work-around) it may not be near as appealing as "fluid" injection to cool the intake charge on low boost applications. Unless I get around to looking up the formulas later, my question is at what PSI does aftercooling/intercooling create more torque than going without cooling the intake charge?
And no, there isn't usually a point behind my rambling :rolleyes .
Corey
B.A.D. Q45 SuperCharged Setup
Assuming a conservative estimate at about 100 degrees difference in heat with an intercooler compared to without, a loss of 2 psi in the system could be justified via an approximate 10% gain in power due to the colder intake temps [350 x 1.10 = 385]. Overall, you may be short about 15hp or so at 6psi, but the more you increase the boost, the more you'll benefit from the intercooler/aftercooler. I would consider this the best choice for our engines, as 6 psi feels more like 4 psi yet creates near the same horsepower without the risk of detonation.
Corey
Corey
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AZhitman
- Administrator
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- Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 Z32, 91 GTi-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14, 23 Z.
- Location: Surprise, Arizona
- Contact:
The car was run for approximately 6 months through the Florida summer at 7-8 lbs of boost w/no issues.
We'll be OK at 6 lbs.
There's an air-to-air intercooler that was developed at the time that gives us some leeway w/o taking up more space... needs a hole in the hood though.
Once people get comfortable with the idea of relocating their battery to the trunk, there SHOULD be enough room for some small IC piping if necessary.
We'll be OK at 6 lbs.
There's an air-to-air intercooler that was developed at the time that gives us some leeway w/o taking up more space... needs a hole in the hood though.
Once people get comfortable with the idea of relocating their battery to the trunk, there SHOULD be enough room for some small IC piping if necessary.
I have no problems relocating my battery, cutting holes in my hood, etc. but when it comes to not getting an FSTB... well that just makes me sad...
I'm quite sure there wouldn't be any problems running 7-8lbs either. 8lbs would be quite doable with an IC, you'd just have to make sure the transmission is capable and willing to handle that much power.
When the BAD Q was being ran for the 6 months or so, was that with an intercooler or without?
Corey
I'm quite sure there wouldn't be any problems running 7-8lbs either. 8lbs would be quite doable with an IC, you'd just have to make sure the transmission is capable and willing to handle that much power.
When the BAD Q was being ran for the 6 months or so, was that with an intercooler or without?
Corey
Any dyno numbers?AZhitman wrote:The car was run for approximately 6 months through the Florida summer at 7-8 lbs of boost w/no issues.
We'll be OK at 6 lbs.
There's an air-to-air intercooler that was developed at the time that gives us some leeway w/o taking up more space... needs a hole in the hood though.
right now....I just want my damn car back. I have only had my car for less than 24 hours in the past 3 weeks (mostly traveling) and by the time I get it back with the headers...it will be 4+ weeks. I guess I don't have to worry about putting any more miles on the car right now is a positive view point of this situation. Also I just hope my car runs half way decent as modding cars is definitely not my speciality when it comes to new and unproven products.
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psychic_mechanic
- Posts: 296
- Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 6:45 am
- Car: the world's ugliest civic
MiniMan wrote:Vinny, maybe I'm not understanding the point you're trying to make... but we're trying to keep costs low, not through the roof. If you're suggesting we should lower compression though a more commonplace method, by all means find us some 9.0:1 pistons that will be just as reliable and inexpensive. You won't be able to.
Lower compression means more timing advance which means more horsepower. Running a lower compression now means more upgradability down the road. Something which I will eventually be wanting to do.
Corey
I was trying to say that there is no reason to lower the compression, especially with some POS spacers. The results from 6 PSI should be more than enought to keep you happy for a while.
If you really want to lower the compression, I would get the S/C all worked out to start with and start putting parts together for a real low compression long block. It would take a lot of research, but something has to have pistons that would be good candidates. Get some with the same bore and match up pin height, etc.
I wouldn't want to put more than 6 PSI on a 100k mile Q engine anyway. If you want to make a boost monster you need to find a race shop that can do a rebuild meeting or exceeding factory specs.
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AZhitman
- Administrator
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- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
- Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 Z32, 91 GTi-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14, 23 Z.
- Location: Surprise, Arizona
- Contact:
psychic_mechanic wrote:The results from 6 PSI should be more than enought to keep you happy for a while.
If you want to make a boost monster you need to find a race shop that can do a rebuild meeting or exceeding factory specs.
The words used to describe the Q at 7-8 lbs of boost were:
"Nearly undriveable".
Good luch finding a machine shop that can meet OEM VH45DE specs. I'd bet $$$ there are none that can exceed them.
According to Dennis....the headers should actually make the car run a bit more lean versus rich and that the O2 sensors are only used during. The ECU can only react/calculate quickly enough under a cruising type condition to adjust the AF ratio based on O2 sensor readings. When under WOT, the O2 sensors are ignored and the ECU looks up a table based on rpms, throttle position, etc. (ignoring O2 sensors) for the preprogramed AF ratio that adjust everything correctly. So I should be okay and according to Dennis, the most I should be off in richness is 3% if the O2 sensors are wacky after the headers. I also spoke with Ben Pilla (JWT) about getting the ECU reprogramed for the richness after the addition of the headers and he said that the headers would not have any affect on richness either and that the O2 sensors should be fine as long as they are installed into the new flanges properly and securely.
So right now...based on Dennis and JWT, I should be in good shape. The only thing to do is take the wait and see approach. If for some reason I do run a little richer...say 3% then that is okay as my initial concern was running like 20%+ richer which I don't think will happen now. Only time will reveal the truth. Heck...right now I am just praying the damn thing runs as good as when I brought it in there.
I know there was a [positive difference with the exhaust, but I only drove the car for 20 minutes right to the the header shop so my experience is limited.
So right now...based on Dennis and JWT, I should be in good shape. The only thing to do is take the wait and see approach. If for some reason I do run a little richer...say 3% then that is okay as my initial concern was running like 20%+ richer which I don't think will happen now. Only time will reveal the truth. Heck...right now I am just praying the damn thing runs as good as when I brought it in there.
I know there was a [positive difference with the exhaust, but I only drove the car for 20 minutes right to the the header shop so my experience is limited.
Getting rid of the MKIV TT supra was indeed, the worst choice of my life 
That shows you I'm young, when selling a car is the worst thing I've done, but hey!
It was a white 96 automatic TT.. low mileage.. Bought it for slighty under 30k. I sold it because it was an auto, and I REALLY wanted a manual. I bought it because I wanted a supra sooooo bad, and it was 100% impulsive.. So I sold it, didn't buy another one right away.. I bought a 87 turbo to drive around until I could find a nice black manual TT. I had to have black and a manual, not a white/slushbox.. I waited for awhile, and no good ones came around az, well ones that I wanted.. Then fast and furious hit, and supras went through the roof.. Damn that movie.. now they are all overpriced, and old...
It was such an awesome car.. I did the boost cut controller on it, unplugged some hoses, and it was boosting 18 psi.. that's why I loved that car, you didn't have to mess with the ecu or anything.. you could do some hose reroutes and make it boost max.. With that $100 dollar mod I ran a 13.5@108. crappy time bounced off my limited in 1st and 2nd, and got a horrible 60 ft.. The supra ran a 13.6@106 stock.. I could of hit 12.9@110..
Anyway owning the supra is spoiling.. It was so fast for it's time, and really still is. When I look at a g35 and other cars, all I can think of is quick, but not fast. All these modern cars should be able to equal the supra..
I miss the true Japanese sports cars.. 300zx, rx7, supra, 3kgt.. they all had so much potential, and stock quickness. The supra was definetely the king.. It's a nearly 15 year old car, and hardly any stock cars can keep up with it. Another good example of a Japanese bubble economy vehicle.
Please give us the sports cars back... I miss the pureness of the RX7.. I miss the flat out speed of the supra.. Now all they have is lightning quick sedans WRX, EVO.. The G is good, but needs to be supra fast. Bring back the sports coupes Japan, we will buy them.
F&F and the import scene really ruined the supra. They shot the value through the roof. It's hard to find one with even 100,000 miles under 20k.
I liked the anniversary edition paint colors.. Quicksilver 98 supra TT, is choice.
I hate paying more for something, I bought for less. That's what I'd have to do with the supra.. I think I'd rather have an M for that money.
Still nothing beats the Supra if you want all out speed in a JDM car.
That shows you I'm young, when selling a car is the worst thing I've done, but hey!It was a white 96 automatic TT.. low mileage.. Bought it for slighty under 30k. I sold it because it was an auto, and I REALLY wanted a manual. I bought it because I wanted a supra sooooo bad, and it was 100% impulsive.. So I sold it, didn't buy another one right away.. I bought a 87 turbo to drive around until I could find a nice black manual TT. I had to have black and a manual, not a white/slushbox.. I waited for awhile, and no good ones came around az, well ones that I wanted.. Then fast and furious hit, and supras went through the roof.. Damn that movie.. now they are all overpriced, and old...
It was such an awesome car.. I did the boost cut controller on it, unplugged some hoses, and it was boosting 18 psi.. that's why I loved that car, you didn't have to mess with the ecu or anything.. you could do some hose reroutes and make it boost max.. With that $100 dollar mod I ran a 13.5@108. crappy time bounced off my limited in 1st and 2nd, and got a horrible 60 ft.. The supra ran a 13.6@106 stock.. I could of hit 12.9@110..
Anyway owning the supra is spoiling.. It was so fast for it's time, and really still is. When I look at a g35 and other cars, all I can think of is quick, but not fast. All these modern cars should be able to equal the supra..
I miss the true Japanese sports cars.. 300zx, rx7, supra, 3kgt.. they all had so much potential, and stock quickness. The supra was definetely the king.. It's a nearly 15 year old car, and hardly any stock cars can keep up with it. Another good example of a Japanese bubble economy vehicle.
Please give us the sports cars back... I miss the pureness of the RX7.. I miss the flat out speed of the supra.. Now all they have is lightning quick sedans WRX, EVO.. The G is good, but needs to be supra fast. Bring back the sports coupes Japan, we will buy them.
F&F and the import scene really ruined the supra. They shot the value through the roof. It's hard to find one with even 100,000 miles under 20k.
I liked the anniversary edition paint colors.. Quicksilver 98 supra TT, is choice.
I hate paying more for something, I bought for less. That's what I'd have to do with the supra.. I think I'd rather have an M for that money.
Still nothing beats the Supra if you want all out speed in a JDM car.
Krylian or whatever they have called supercharged the VK to greatness. 450 hp on stock exhaust!..
Blown M with 450+ hp, 19s and a beefed up suspension.. Black of course
Ok, back on topic.. blowing the G50
I think the G50 could handle the power. I bet what made it undriveable, was the stock transmission, and other factors.
I think the XJR has a less rigid/stiff chasis then the G50.. It is a MONSTER in 1st gear.. It starts in 2nd gear, which makes it much more driveable. Also has a MB huge torque handling 5 speed. With a nice built up transmission, monsterous tires, and a good ecu, I think it would be just as driveable as the XJR. I don't see much difference between the two..
Of course the XJR puts 300 RWHP stock, while that Q was putting down 380.. quite a bit of difference. Still I think if you carefully upgraded each component of the vehicle to match the increased power, it would come out right.
Blown M with 450+ hp, 19s and a beefed up suspension.. Black of course
Ok, back on topic.. blowing the G50
I think the G50 could handle the power. I bet what made it undriveable, was the stock transmission, and other factors.
I think the XJR has a less rigid/stiff chasis then the G50.. It is a MONSTER in 1st gear.. It starts in 2nd gear, which makes it much more driveable. Also has a MB huge torque handling 5 speed. With a nice built up transmission, monsterous tires, and a good ecu, I think it would be just as driveable as the XJR. I don't see much difference between the two..
Of course the XJR puts 300 RWHP stock, while that Q was putting down 380.. quite a bit of difference. Still I think if you carefully upgraded each component of the vehicle to match the increased power, it would come out right.