Are you for legalization or against it? (marijuana)

[BigMACKenzie]

which is why we need to stop looking at those drugs as a criminal problem and start looking at them as a medical/addiction problem but as im sure you know MJ is not addictive. anyways who said we should legalize crack cocaine and heroin? I always wonder how people lump those drugs in with MJ, its like asking someone with a Geo metro to pay the same insurance as a Ferrari owner.

[audtatious]

anyways who said we should legalize crack cocaine and heroin? I always wonder how people lump those drugs in with MJ, its like asking someone with a Geo metro to pay the same insurance as a Ferrari owner.

B.) Adult choices, which every legal adult in this country has a right to decide what to put into his or her body as long as it does not harm others.

Adult choices per your comment above. As long as it's only harmful to the one taking it then all drugs, including prescription, should be legalized because it's a persons right. If you legalize pot then you are descriminating against those who like other drugs as well. So, you are at a "draw the line" standpoint and I'd like to see why pot, altho less "lethal" than the others, should be allowed while others are not.

Pot has no harmful effects? Of course it does. Here's a good article I found with 10 seconds of google

http://www.uhs.wisc.edu/displa...id=38

[BigMACKenzie]

If you don't understand how a crack cocaine or heroin user is dangerous in ways that a mj user is not, I can't help you, simple as that. nevber mind the difference in the impact that the drugs have on your health. Face facts, marijuana, while not harmless for adults, is no more harmful than alcohol or cigarettes. I say we change things up and YOU prove to me why MJ should be illegal without relying on DuPont or the govt's racist rhetoric or obscenely outdated or unscientific studies. Also the link you gave was some hot garbage, first they say MJ "may" be addictive for "some" users, then proceed to say how all users "will" go down the path towards addiction, if not dependence. On top of that, the "super pot" myth has already been debunked. All the mota seized and stored in the 60's and 70's was actually stored in a facility in Alabama, in a NON AIR CONDITIONED SHED. after in was trucked to the facility in the back of NON AIR CONDITIONED box trucks. As you may or may not be aware of but THC vaporizes at around 125 degrees, well within range of a sweaty box truck in the Alabama summer's heat. Every piece of evidence from back then had essentially already been smoked and deprived of the majority of it's THC content. Your parents didnt always smoke ditch weed, the hot fuzz just wasnt smart enough to know how to store it for 30 years (who cam blame them, stale beans!)

[audtatious]

Because I don't give a damn if they make it legal or not. Just don't have your minions take more tax dollars out of my wallet for some stupid welfare crap because the current 46% dropout rate increases to 60% because stupid kids lose their short term memory and can't pass school.

Argue it all you want but THC does cause issues. You can smoke cigs and while it can cause health problems it won't make you screwed up in the head and forgetful like pot. Alcohol can allow you to do stupid stuff and can be addicting but it does not cause memory loss (other than blackouts if you are too stupid to drink that much) like THC. Just stop throwing out that pot is so wonderful that there are no repercussions and no dependancy problems with it as that would be a false and stupid statement.

[Sentientbydesign]

MJ may not be chemically addictive, but it is DEFINITELY habitually addictive.

I like caffeine and my body hates me when I lower my regular intake of it, but when it's out of my system. I don't crave more of it....See that word CRAVE.

With alcohol, my "addiction" is the same as making great food. I love mixing drinks and I usually serve 20x more than I consume.

There are some of us who don't need outside substances to maintain our feeling of well being.

[96Qowner]

You have a point, but not with those two examples. Caffeine will cause a nasty physical withdrawal for a couple days - bad headaches and lethargy. It's an actual physical metabolic thing. And we all know that alcohol is physically addictive - DTs etc. Even cigarettes alter the brain's metabolism to adapt to the nicotine.

Marijuana has no such effect. Even sugar "addiction" is a metabolic thing - screws up the insulin cycle, giving you rushes and crashes, and difficult mental conditions if you quit cold turkey.

It's hard to find a good analogy. Maybe watching TV? That's gives people an excuse to sit by themselves and do nothing, instead of engaging in the world. I know the few times my cable has gone out, I've gotten all fidgety and disoriented, unhappy. I just wanted it to come back on .... kept waiting and waiting ... (I'm getting all sweaty thinking about it - ack!). Watching TV isn't good for your health, either - screws up your posture, keeps you from getting enough exercise ...

Dunno. I just have never been hassled or harmed by a pot smoker. I'd rather have pot smokers living next to me, than drinkers. I'd rather have a TV watcher living next to me, than a partyer.

Oh, and one more example of the money/tax part of it: I was running some numbers through my head, and I think you could cultivate outdoor pot for about $20/lb for stuff that sells for $1500/lb. You could probably do indoor, premium pot for $100/lb for stuff that sells for $3500/lb. All that money now goes to criminal enterprises and street dealers. You could tax the crap out of it and destroy the black market at the same time, like we did with alcohol after prohibition.

[audtatious]

Oh, and one more example of the money/tax part of it: I was running some numbers through my head, and I think you could cultivate outdoor pot for about $20/lb for stuff that sells for $1500/lb. You could probably do indoor, premium pot for $100/lb for stuff that sells for $3500/lb. All that money now goes to criminal enterprises and street dealers. You could tax the crap out of it and destroy the black market at the same time, like we did with alcohol after prohibition.

I'm sure you could but then you would assume the Gov't should take responsibility for providing the stoners with appropriate "welfare phylosophy" services. IF it increases the dropout or failure rates we have in schools today then there would be more of a "service" load for welfare. Assuming more people won't do it if it's legal is a very bad stance.

Whoa!!!

[BigMACKenzie]

***Post edited by mod. Calling other members names will always be edited. More than once may result is short vacations or worse.***

[audtatious]

I suggest you change your attitude quickly.

I don't care if it's legalized or not but you seem to want to ignore that and simply jump the "it's all good and rosy without any side effects at all" train. The failure in this thread is the pot smokers all deny any negative side effects associated with the drug which is false. At least smokers and drinkers admit there are negative "potential" (just to make people happy) side effects to overuse.

[BigMACKenzie]

Face facts, marijuana, while not harmless for adults, is no more harmful than alcohol or cigarettes.

I said what now fool? you don't listen, you dont really have any "points" you just play devils advocate to whatever the last pro MJ statement was, in short, your Trolling. And you still havent given me even one halfway decent reason that it should be illegal. cuz you can't. thats like, all the fail in china hoss, so lets move out the glass house before you keep throwing stones.

Edit:

Modified by BigMACKenzie at 2:40 PM 8/22/2008

[rn79870]

MAC, I spend a lot of time editing crap in this forum. I don't allow name calling, however minor, when directed towards another member. Take a walk if you start to lose it, but don't lose it here.

[Ilvemynissan]

The failure in this thread is the pot smokers all deny any negative side effects associated with the drug which is false.

Well I know it's bad for you, it can be addictive, i'm not denying that. Just one thing though, you can't OD on weed. Well you can but it's pretty much impossible, not sure if this is true or not but to OD on marijuana a person would have to smoke his or her own body weight in weed within an hour. You do make some good points though.

Oh and 'BigMack' your not really helping at all.

EDIT: Troll, are you serious!?!?

[BigMACKenzie]

are you serious? its physically imposable to OD on MJ. the only way to do it is with crystallized THC. Trust me, you pass out LONG before you can smoke that much. You will die of c02 poisoning or smoke inhalation before you smoke yourself to death. The only reason why smoking is "bad" for you is because you are SMOKING ^^ smoking anything isnt ever good for you, but its all we are left with bc the government refuses to allow research into inhalers or other options. Oh and marinol is a crock of Sh1te and $8 a pill and contains aprox. 6 1/2 cents of THC, which is also not the only active cannabanoid in MJ and not the only medicinal part of MJ either.

[srellim234]

bigMAC- Ilve explained why it is virtually impossible to OD on it and you attack him for it.

QWERTY is presently using a vaporizer and has stated so clearly earlier in this thread; he does not smoke it in unfiltered cigarette form. Your choice not to use an inhaler or vaporizer or, for that matter, insert it in rectal suppository form has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not the United States government has studied that dosage form or not. You can use it illegally in this country in any form you want to.

The effects of marijuana on the brain, on the lungs, on the entire body require more legitimate scientific study before we can give it a truly "informed based on scientific fact" thumbs up or thumbs down.

[Ilvemynissan]

bigMAC- Apparently you've been smoking enough that paranoia and an inability to read have set in.

Ilve explained why it is virtually impossible to OD on it and you attack him for it.

The effects of marijuana on the brain, on the lungs, on the entire body require more legitimate scientific study before we can give it a truly "informed based on scientific fact" thumbs up or thumbs down.

And If he continues at this rate I vote

[srellim234]

Or be forced to use it in rectal suppository form.....

[Ilvemynissan]

Haha LOL

[BigMACKenzie]

sorry you said think, I prefer much stronger verbage is all. that on top of writing the last post on my way out from work def led to me sounding like I was arguing with myself, again sorry. And your right about the research, but it wont happen as long as MJ remains schedule 1, sorry if I seem a little militant about this, but its backwards laws and policy that actually prevent further quality research, because there have been SOME really great quality research done in the last ten to fifteen years. And force is such a strong word...

[srellim234]

A distinction here and I think you need to weigh in on it, too.Medicinal marijuana use and recreational marijuana use are two totally different animals.

I agree with you that Marinol is not effective enough and so I'm in favor of moving medicinal marijuana into the controlled substance class II or III schedules at this time. With that would go the caveat that as a substance that is combusted to be administered, the patient has the responsibility to not subject anyone else to the drug through the second-hand smoke or vapors. In other words, a medicine basically to be used at home.

Once it is moved to that realm, medical studies will flourish studying the effects. Based on those studies alone the drug may or may not become unscheduled down to Class V, then go OTC. You can bet delivery systems will be studied in a hurry, too, sponsored by companies who sell vaporizers and inhalers.

Recreational marijuana is a different beast. That's where I think further study is warranted BEFORE it's legalized. I don't think you can necessarily stop it (like Prohibition failed to stop liquor), but we really need the courts to get tougher on anyone bringing the effects into the public domain (secondhand smoke, DUI, public intoxication, etc.). It needs to be kept out of the public domain and restricted to indoors in your home and not around the kids or others who don't want to be exposed to it. Using it in such a way that someone might be affected by your smoke, your vapors, your DUI, etc. should lead you to be severely punished. Same applies to drinking alcohol. The courts aren't tough enough, especially on repeat offenders.

[themadscientist]

smoke dope, I don't care. Snort coke, cook meth, sniff glue, choke yourself while you spank it; what do I care?People stupid enough to voluntarily fry themselves on that crap deserve the results. The easier it is for them to get it the more money is taken out of the hands of the criminal element that supplies it when it is illegal and the less time it will take them to die from their habit and remove themselves from the gene pool and the public roads so I don't have to be bothered with retarded stoners and can get places easier.

[srellim234]

themad- The major problem with that attitude is when the guy who's stoned gets the munchies and heads out behind thewheel of his car to Circle K, wiping out a carload of innocent small children and adults. Or you, so you never get to enjoy those nicer traffic conditions.

[themadscientist]

And how is that different from a drunk driver? Let's not have a double standard, one standard will do fine.

[srellim234]

I agree, with the only difference being second-hand exposure. You don't get high from breathing second-hand martini fumes.

[themadscientist]

You can't smoke in public anyway so it's a moot point. This is a funny twist.http://www.sltrib.com/travel/ci_9729024

A drug is a drug. Speed is a drug after a fashion and I know I am addicted.

[srellim234]

Not quite on the smoking in public. I think if you are in close quarters (duplex, condo, apartment, or even these new housing tracts with the houses crammed on top of each other) it should be your responsibility to ensure that the neighbors aren't subjected to any smoke escaping your place.

[themadscientist]

There are more toxins emanating from your new carpet and furniture or from your kid's chinese toys then from a pothead lighting up a doobie next door. Let's be realistic.

[audtatious]

http://www.whitehousedrugpolic....htmlhttp://www.whitehousedrugpolic...1.pdfhttp://www.usdoj.gov/dea/marijuana_position.htmlhttp://www.whitehousedrugpolic...facts/http://pushingback.com/blogs/p....aspxhttp://www.whitehousedrugpolic...8.pdfhttp://www.whitehousedrugpolic...h.pdfhttp://www.oas.samhsa.gov/2k8/...s.pdfhttp://www.oas.samhsa.gov/2k7/...s.pdfhttp://familydoctor.org/online....htmlhttp://www.nationalpainfoundat...s.asphttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/si...ePlus

Shall I continue? I can find quite a few more reports against marijuana legalization.

[themadscientist]

Not sure who that is aimed at.

[Beancooker]

I'm not to be posting in the politics forum, but I can honestly say, under certain conditions, Marijuana can become addictive. Both mentally and physically.

I know this, because I smoked over a quarter of a million dollars worth in ten years. I wasn't being ripped off for ten years either. I was getting it at an incredible discount.

When I did quit, I didn't eat or sleep well, or regularly for a couple of months. That was the physical addiction.

The mental addiction, was that for ten years, I lived and breathed solely to rip the bong. On any given day that I didn't have at least a 1/4 bag, I was depressed, and the day wasn't worth getting up for.

That is my 2¢

Now I'm out.

[srellim234]

There are more toxins emanating from your new carpet and furniture or from your kid's chinese toys then from a pothead lighting up a doobie next door. Let's be realistic.

I am being realistic. My 6 and 8 year old don't need to be smelling it or inhaling it. They shouldn't even be subjected to it at this point in their lives. Neither should my wife and I. It is my choice how many toxins in the food and toxins in Chinese-made toys they are exposed to in and around our home. The same should apply to the smoke emanating from your house and coming to mine. Keep it to yourself.

Guess what? Employment testing doesn't care how even .0001% got in your system. If it's there when you're drug tested, you're fired.