Are you for legalization or against it? (marijuana)

[srellim234]

Come back when you can find a death that mj smoke is responsible for.

You don't need to try to intimidate me into going anywhere. I'm staying right here.

Read my posts again. "MORE STUDY IS NEEDED."

[Qwerty1942]

see? you still can't find a death that mj is the cause of.

[rn79870]

I googled this re: Marijuana and deaths...Marijuana use is much more dangerous that believed and hundreds of young people die each year in "accidents" caused by their prolonged use of the drug, according to Britain's most senior coroner.

Hamish Turner, the president of the Coroners' Society, told The Telegraph that the marijuana, often portrayed as harmless, has increasingly been the cause of deaths that have been reported as accidents or suicides.

"Cannabis is as dangerous as any other drug and people must understand that it kills," said Mr Turner. "From my long experience I can say that it is a very dangerous substance. Increasingly it is mentioned not only as the first drug taken by people who overdose, but also in suicides and accidental deaths.

From here...http://alcoholism.about.com/b/...s.htm

[srellim234]

"MORE STUDY IS NEEDED."

You have a problem understanding that because something hasn't been studied long enough or thouroughly enough it must be harmless because you want to experience it for pleasure.

http://marijuana.researchtoday...9.htm needs a much larger study group to confirm the findings and follow the patients through to termination to see if marijuana does in fact contribute to premature death. I don't feel the findings can be automatically extrapolated for the entire population at large based on a group as small as this study but the findings definitely warrant additional study.

http://marijuana.researchtoday...2.htmhttp://marijuana.researchtoday...4.htmhttp://marijuana.researchtoday...9.htmAll from 2008. MORE STUDY IS NEEDED

[Qwerty1942]

I googled this re: Marijuana and deaths...Marijuana use is much more dangerous that believed and hundreds of young people die each year in "accidents" caused by their prolonged use of the drug, according to Britain's most senior coroner.

Hamish Turner, the president of the Coroners' Society, told The Telegraph that the marijuana, often portrayed as harmless, has increasingly been the cause of deaths that have been reported as accidents or suicides.

"Cannabis is as dangerous as any other drug and people must understand that it kills," said Mr Turner. "From my long experience I can say that it is a very dangerous substance. Increasingly it is mentioned not only as the first drug taken by people who overdose, but also in suicides and accidental deaths.

From here...http://alcoholism.about.com/b/...s.htm

"Increasingly it is mentioned not only as the first drug taken by people who overdose"

They don't overdose on mj, they overdose on something else they've taken afterward. Probably heroin/alcohol.

"but also in suicides and accidental deaths."

They probably were mixing mj with other drugs too.

Point still stands: People do not die solely because of mj. You can't find any record of such a death because it has never happened and it never will.

edit: here's what someone posted in the comments section of the article you linked:

Quote »Tobacco kills about 400,000Alcohol kills about 80,000Workplace accidents kill 60,000Automobiles kill 40,000Cocaine kills about 2,500Heroin kills about 2,000Aspirin kills about 2,000Marijuana kills 0There has never been a recorded death due to marijuana at any time in US history.[/quote]

[Qwerty1942]

You have a problem understanding...

No, I think it's you who has a problem understanding things. See, humans have been consuming cannabis since prehistory, and NOT ONE person has ever died from mj. If MJ did kill, there would be some record by now documenting such a death. However, since mj doesn't kill such a record does not exist nor will it ever.

[themadscientist]

Destroy your brain and your life if you choose to. I don't care. The world needs janitors, and fry guys and used record store clerks.



I don't mind stoners, it's fun to watch them trying to find their keys. I can't stand the philosophical stoners though. STFU already about weed, jezuz get a life and put the pipe down for 15 minutes! "hemp can make paper and fabric""tobacco is worse""have you ever pooped yourself,,,on weed!"

Smoke the reefer. I don't care. Just please, for the love of god don't assume the rest of us care about you and your hobby. Smoke it quietly in the back of your van and don't bother the rest of us with your bong-induced meanderings of thought.

[Qwerty1942]

Destroy your brain

actually, there is research that suggests that mj promotes brain cell growth.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/re...7.htm

[szh]

I still don't like the idea of smoke particles in my lungs ...

Recently, I took my 10 year old son to that Body show (you know what I mean!) ... we saw the lungs of a non-smoker compared to the lungs of a smoker. I was proud that he commented on why he totally understood why I don't smoke and he was not going to either.

I truly hope that this message sticks in his mind in the future!

Z

[themadscientist]

Then why do the stoners forget **** if their brains are growing doctor weed? You know cancer "grows" too. I have seen enough drooling morons baked on pot to know unequivocally that there is detrimental effects to your CPU. No cutesy link is going to change the fact that I have seen with my own eyes. As I said, smoke that **** if you want to; just do it quietly and don't bug me about it.

[Qwerty1942]

Then why do the stoners forget **** if their brains are growing doctor weed? You know cancer "grows" too.

um, the term memory is not synonymous with intelligence. and what does cancer have to do with what we're talking about?

I have seen enough drooling morons baked on pot to know unequivocally that there is detrimental effects to your CPU. No cutesy link is going to change the fact that I have seen with my own eyes. As I said, smoke that **** if you want to; just do it quietly and don't bug me about it.

Probably because the people you know don't just stick to weed, but screw up their brains in other ways. I doubt you know people who just stick to weed and avoid cigs/booze etc...

also, no one is bugging you about weed. You don't have to click this thread.

[rn79870]

Point still stands: People do not die solely because of mj. You can't find any record of such a death because it has never happened and it never will.

Let me just repost what the good doctor said.

Hamish Turner, the president of the Coroners' Society, told The Telegraph that the marijuana, often portrayed as harmless, has increasingly been the cause of deaths that have been reported as accidents or suicides.

The doctor seems to believe that there have been deaths. I'm not a doctor so I can't comment any further than that.

[Qwerty1942]

Let me just repost what the good doctor said.

Hamish Turner, the president of the Coroners' Society, told The Telegraph that the marijuana, often portrayed as harmless, has increasingly been the cause of deaths that have been reported as accidents or suicides.

The doctor seems to believe that there have been deaths. I'm not a doctor so I can't comment any further than that.

It's his belief, not a fact.

[themadscientist]

Where is memory stored Dr. Weed. Let me save you the work, IN YOUR BRAIN! The cancer comment is there to demonstrate that "growth" is not necessarily good. Like a goiter or an 11th toe.

You unwillingness to admit that there are adverse affects; always assuming a third source for symptoms characteristic of long term pot use exposes your agenda. This renders you nonobjective and as suspect as the dogmatic on the other side of the argument who refuses to acknowledge facts that don't agree with his narrow view. Pot burns out your brain, it's fact. The euphoria you feel is your brain dieing. Try choking yourself with a plastic bag and you will likely feel a similar effect. If you choose to engage in voluntarily frying your brain I am ready to support your desire to do that but don't try to sell me the fantasy that it does anything positive, hell let's just settle for "not negative" to your body.My drug is caffeine. It's terrible stuff that is burning my body out but it's my body so everyone can get off my *** about my coffee. You won't see me trying to equate it to ephedrine to try and downplay it's negative effects or trying to scapegoat another source for my withdrawal shakes when I don't have my "juice". Why, because then I would look ridiculous, kind of how you look talking about MJ as if it is completely innocuous.

[rn79870]

The word believe was from my statement, not the doctor's.

Hamish Turner, the president of the Coroners' Society, told The Telegraph that the marijuana, often portrayed as harmless, has increasingly been the cause of deaths that have been reported as accidents or suicides.

As I said, I'm not a doctor so I can't defend or define what he said. You'll have to interpret it yourself.

[themadscientist]

I must say I miss those public service announcement with the dude frying the egg. "This is your brain on drugs"

Looks like breakfast to me dude. I though it funny that an anti pot ad gave me the munchies.

[SteveTheTech]

I think vets like Qwerty should be able to do what ever the hell they want and none of us should be able to say boo about it. If smoking some pot makes him feel better who are we to take that from him?So one doctor in England says it may cause death sounds more like a assumption, but I fail to understand how. If you are into the big league drugs heroin/crack/acid would you really waste your time with a downer like pot? People should be allowed to do what they want Land of the free home of the brave right? I am amazed by the very strong opinions here, if y'all just smoked a little it would be a little more calm. lolI assume that the argument would be the same if cigarettes were illegal and there was a push to legalize them. At the end of the day should we not be able to decide for ourselves what want to put into/do with our bodies? With the glorious internet you can find someone that will agree with anything and more likely that not there are article to back up any point of view you may have. Were are our personal freedoms going ? PS the smell inside a new car has been found to cause cancer as well.

[Qwerty1942]

Where is memory stored Dr. Weed. Let me save you the work, IN YOUR BRAIN! The cancer comment is there to demonstrate that "growth" is not necessarily good. Like a goiter or an 11th toe.

It's not necessarily bad either, especially since we're not talking about toes, goiters or whatever. we're talking about the neurogenesis of brain cells

You unwillingness to blah blah etc..

im unwilling to recognize negative effects of pot? uh no i do recognize them. even audtatious said he agreed with me bc i do recognize the bad effects.

[themadscientist]

I love the irony of people judging smokers as "killing themselves" in between bites of a Burger King quad stacker.

[Qwerty1942]

The word believe was from my statement, not the doctor's.

Hamish Turner, the president of the Coroners' Society, told The Telegraph that the marijuana, often portrayed as harmless, has increasingly been the cause of deaths that have been reported as accidents or suicides.

As I said, I'm not a doctor so I can't defend or define what he said. You'll have to interpret it yourself.

dude he's from england, nuff said.

[Qwerty1942]

I think vets like Qwerty should be able to do what ever the hell they want and none of us should be able to say boo about it. If smoking some pot makes him feel better who are we to take that from him?So one doctor in England says it may cause death sounds more like a assumption, but I fail to understand how. If you are into the big league drugs heroin/crack/acid would you really waste your time with a downer like pot? People should be allowed to do what they want Land of the free home of the brave right? I am amazed by the very strong opinions here, if y'all just smoked a little it would be a little more calm. lolI assume that the argument would be the same if cigarettes were illegal and there was a push to legalize them. At the end of the day should we not be able to decide for ourselves what want to put into/do with our bodies? With the glorious internet you can find someone that will agree with anything and more likely that not there are article to back up any point of view you may have. Were are our personal freedoms going ? PS the smell inside a new car has been found to cause cancer as well.

Thanks brother. Great post!

[themadscientist]

Anything that alters perception can put you in situations that you might normally not be in and thus endanger you. Alcohol, cold medicine etc can and does do the same thing which is why I find the special treatment of "illegal" drugs so hypocritical.

[rn79870]

Let's reverse the direction of this discussion. Excluding any usage where a doctor has prescribed it for cancer and the like, is there one single benefit to society from the (unprescribed) smoking marijuana?

[themadscientist]

Removal of the criminal element. Look at the rise in the criminal element in the production, traffic and sale of alcohol during prohibition. The same can be said for gamb|ing and prostitution. Whenever something is pushed into the shadows criminals benefit from that and "consumers" are endangered.

[audtatious]

Kinda depends on cost. If it's taxed like hell then it may still be cheaper on the black market, thus the criminals are still around.

[SteveTheTech]

The same can be said for alcohol no? It is far more detrimental to society, a person is not going to fight anyone baked. If done in the privacy of ones home what is the harm to society? In the medical cases there is no argument, some people choose to self medicate, its natural and can actually be organic, sounds better than Zoloft or lithium to me.

[szh]

Kinda depends on cost. If it's taxed like hell then it may still be cheaper on the black market, thus the criminals are still around.

Yes. Good point ...

Sorta like cigarettes in Canada.

Z

[Beancooker]

I'll add another 2¢.

I haven't ever breathed clearer then when I finally quit smoking pot. It does cause serious respiratory problems. I have been diagnosed with hyperinflation of the lungs. It is the first stages of emphysema. This comes from smoking too much pot. Hell, it could have been caused from smoking too much bamboo, if that is what I had been stuffing into the bong.

Second, smoking pot can have a harder effect on the respiratory system, since it is usually inhaled deeper than most other types of smoke, and held in much longer.

As far as intelligence, I will say a few things.

I haven't had a problem with remembering what I went to the garage for, since about 2 months after I quit smoking. Before, I would go to the garage, kitchen, where ever, to get something, and forget what I went there for.

On the other hand, when I smoked every day for years, I had a gift for mathematics. As silly as it sounds, I saw numbers in my head like blocks of different sizes, and they just stacked up, and the solution to many difficult mathematic problems were extremely easy to figure out.

After I quit, this gift went away. I am now average at math, and need a calculator to tell you that 152x749=113848. When I was stoned all the time, the correct answer would have taken me about 5 seconds to calculate.

That is the only thing I REALLY miss about not smoking.

[srellim234]

Care to show me that while being under the influence MJ has never in human history caused someone to exhibit such poor judgement as to do something that killed them? Far too many DUI deaths have occurred for you to say that MJ doesn't cause death. If it alters perception or judgement to cause you to exhibit poor judgement leading to death, it is too much of a contributing factor to dismiss it out of hand.

Care to show me definitive proof that bullous lung disease over the course of human history has never been caused by MJ? At least one study says it has. Even the researcher in charge of the study said the study didn't last long enough to follow it out to a conclusion on death. How many deaths have been attributed to something in which MJ was a contributing factor?

Prove your grandiose statement that it will never in the future be proven that it doesn't kill. You have absolutely no documentation that can conclusively prove that over the course of a lifetime it doesn't affect some body function or body part negatively enough to cause premature death. More research needs to be done before I'll be comfortable enough to allow "anything goes" legalization.

I've explained from my standpoint, based on 36 years as a pharmacy tech and in the pharmaceutical industry, that I'm in favor of changes legalizing medical marijuana and steps along the way to make it easier to obtain and how it will lead to exactly the additional research I'd like to see on it. I'm leaning in favor of legalizing it provided those continuing studies are able to answer some questions about it and there are restrictions regarding exposing unwilling others to it or its effects. It's obvious, however that those in favor and those against are not willing to compromise in any way, shape or form about it. You obviously want it your way, no compromise, you don't care about anyone else and because you want it everyone else be damned.

There is a middle ground compromise, but you are absolutely unwilling to take a step in that direction. You want it all, and you want it all right now.

Interesting that this discussion is taking place in a political forum because that attitude is exactly what's wrong with politics between Democrats and Republicans in America these days.

[themadscientist]

Smokin pot? I thought after clinton was gone we were done with that?