Anyone Up For Some Civil Disobedience?

[amolao]

Somewhat funny article, specially if you add the nazi salute to the German accent change method, LOL!

But actually I'm against giving people a hard time for just doing their job, if you want to complaint use the right channels. I drove up North this weekend, and every single gas station has adopted the "cash before pumping" technique. Somewhat embarassing, but I guess is a sign of times.

I'm offended by it, but my options are: complain to higher management, limit my purchases to debit/credit cards transactions or buy a horse buggy....

[AZhitman]

Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"?

No, I share a different view: If you're so worried about shoplifters, then PAY for real security measures, like cameras and plainclothes police officers.

"Oh, but we can't afford that - We need to make money and pass the savings on to our customers."

Bullcrap.

Big-box stores have a PHENOMENAL profit margin. You'd crap your pants if you saw what they pay for their products vs their retail price.

Besides, they're INSURED against theft and losses.

Of course, higher claims = higher premiums = higher costs passed on to the consumer, but don't think for a minute that they're thinking this far ahead.

Kalok pointed it out perfectly, and some of the left-leaning members here who think I'm a right-wing nutjob may want to reconsider their positions - I'd be PISSED if what happened to him happened to me. I should be able to walk through a store looking however I want, and not be harassed or hassled, and they're just fortunate he didn't take greater offense. I'd have cleared that store out.

Don't impede my coming and going, I have a right to walk out the door when I want to without some stooge stopping me. Follow me around if you want, but don't expect me not to make a scene about it in your store. And profile me and my appearance at your own risk - I'll be on the phone with Oprah's attorney.

[StrangeLove]

Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"?

No, I share a different view: If you're so worried about shoplifters, then PAY for real security measures, like cameras and plainclothes police officers.

"Oh, but we can't afford that - We need to make money and pass the savings on to our customers."

Bullcrap.

Big-box stores have a PHENOMENAL profit margin. You'd crap your pants if you saw what they pay for their products vs their retail price.

Besides, they're INSURED against theft and losses.

Of course, higher claims = higher premiums = higher costs passed on to the consumer, but don't think for a minute that they're thinking this far ahead.

Kalok pointed it out perfectly, and some of the left-leaning members here who think I'm a right-wing nutjob may want to reconsider their positions - I'd be PISSED if what happened to him happened to me. I should be able to walk through a store looking however I want, and not be harassed or hassled, and they're just fortunate he didn't take greater offense. I'd have cleared that store out.

Don't impede my coming and going, I have a right to walk out the door when I want to without some stooge stopping me. Follow me around if you want, but don't expect me not to make a scene about it in your store. And profile me and my appearance at your own risk - I'll be on the phone with Oprah's attorney.

Best post!

I was just about to post something along those same lines, mainly the customer is always right issue. Customers should be respected, afterall, without customers, you have no business.

My friend works at best buy, and he is obsessed with the store now. Anyway, he claims that at best buy, if the security buzzer goes off, and you try to leave, employees will run to block the exits and prevent you from leaving. If you touch them when trying to get by, they will charge you with assault.

I was pissed when I heard that. What they are doing is detaining you against your will, and I'm going to call the ****ing cops.

That is a huge disrepect to the customers, and I don't think I'll be shopping there anymore...

[MaximA32]

Does that mean you know Stedman too?

[AZhitman]

Best post!

Hell hath frozen over.

[MaximA32]

I thought it was getting kind of cold here...

[JustinStrife]

i think if we we want to break this down to the very root, heres what we are getting at. The guy who wrote the article basically thinks that because he doesnt steal, no one else should be hassled.... So because hes a good apple, there should be no other way to weed out the bad apples...

I think the article comes down to wether or not you think mankind is inherently good or bad.... The guy writing the article seems to think that the general population is inherently good, and I think hes right.... Im not talking in a philosophical sense, but in a realistic sense (because i think those are 2 completely different things)... Dont read into this too far, but my point is that most people arent going to shoplift... Obviously, retailers are going tend to take the other side of the spectrum...

I think that guy needs to take a chill pill. I dont really think anyones time is that valuable to be inconvienced by 1 minute.... If you had to stand there for 10 mins (which you may in some instances), thats a little difference.... If it was, you wouldnt have gone to the store yourself, you would have had someone else do it for you. I think Americans need to slow down and not think they are the top sh*t and their time is the most valuable thing in the world.... yes, your time is valuable, but if it was really that valuable, why arent you complaining about sitting in the drivethru for 5 mins to get your cup of coffee??

Despite my driving habits, i really never consider myself in a hurry to get anywhere......... I like driving fast, but that doesnt mean im in a hurry.

I hate to disagree with 90% of the people in this thread, but I do. I have no problems at all with just showing a receipt to someone at the exit when I leave Fry's, or Walmart, or any of the places that do so. I've never had a problem, and I never will. 10 seconds out of my life doing so, isn't going to kill me, nor is it going to bother me, when there are frankly, far more urgent things in my life I have to stress and worry about. This is not one of those things to worry about.

Greg I love ya brother, but I think you're being too much of a prick to people who are doing their job at a place YOU are shopping at.

Everyday I see the differences between the people in this forum, and those on the corvetteforum, and I shift a little more away from Nico...

[Kalok]

I hate to disagree with 90% of the people in this thread, but I do. I have no problems at all with just showing a receipt to someone at the exit when I leave Fry's, or Walmart, or any of the places that do so. I've never had a problem, and I never will. 10 seconds out of my life doing so, isn't going to kill me, nor is it going to bother me, when there are frankly, far more urgent things in my life I have to stress and worry about. This is not one of those things to worry about.

Greg I love ya brother, but I think you're being too much of a prick to people who are doing their job at a place YOU are shopping at.

Everyday I see the differences between the people in this forum, and those on the corvetteforum, and I shift a little more away from Nico...

It's not the time. It's the STORE'S ASSUMPTION that ALL of their customers are thieves that is the problem here

Those lines are there SOLELY because the store is trying to stop theft. By putting those lines there they are saying, "We are going to treat you like a thief until you show us you receipt to show that you are not." THAT is what we have a problem with. The fact is that those lines only stop the HONEST people from egressing from the store in a timely manner, they DO NOT stop the thieves from stealing.

Why should I, as an honest upstanding citizen of the Unites States have to be willing to be treated like a thief in order to purchase something? The answer is, I shouldn't have to be.

Take your date example that you posted in the other thread. You KNOW, based on what you drive that women will treat you differently. If you pull up to a store in your Vette and I pull up to a nice restaurant in my SE-R you and I will both be treated completely differently by the staff SOLELY based on the fact of what we drive. Even if I make more money than you. I probably don't, but that's not the point of this comment.

I am the customer. Their store would not exist without me (me in the general sense). Why should I, the customer, ALLOW them to treat me shabbily when I come to their establishment to line their pockets with money?

The final line of your comment shows exactly why some people think that Vette drivers, Porche drivers, BMW drivers, and the like are arrogant "I am better than you" people.

[nchopp]

It sounds like you have a better idea. And no, getting rid of the system is not a better idea. I don't see anything wrong with people assuming common shoppers are shoplifters. They stare at you like a hawk, who cares? The only people who should feel guilty are the people who are devious. If you are completely innocent, why would you care what they think of you?

Ahhh, the cry of social oppressors for all history.

"If you're innocent, why would you care if we want to check your receipt?"

"If you're innocent, why would you care if we want to search your house for drugs?"

"If you're innocent, why would you care that we insist you take a polygraph to prove you're innocent?"

No. I don't think so. I am not shoplifter, and I refuse to be treated as one. How would you like it if the cops showed up at your house and demanded to search it to see if you had drugs in there? They would have as much right to do that as Wal-Mart does to impede your exit from their louzy store.

[elwesso]

Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"?

No, I share a different view: If you're so worried about shoplifters, then PAY for real security measures, like cameras and plainclothes police officers.

"Oh, but we can't afford that - We need to make money and pass the savings on to our customers."

Bullcrap.

Big-box stores have a PHENOMENAL profit margin. You'd crap your pants if you saw what they pay for their products vs their retail price.

Besides, they're INSURED against theft and losses.

Of course, higher claims = higher premiums = higher costs passed on to the consumer, but don't think for a minute that they're thinking this far ahead.

Kalok pointed it out perfectly, and some of the left-leaning members here who think I'm a right-wing nutjob may want to reconsider their positions - I'd be PISSED if what happened to him happened to me. I should be able to walk through a store looking however I want, and not be harassed or hassled, and they're just fortunate he didn't take greater offense. I'd have cleared that store out.

Don't impede my coming and going, I have a right to walk out the door when I want to without some stooge stopping me. Follow me around if you want, but don't expect me not to make a scene about it in your store. And profile me and my appearance at your own risk - I'll be on the phone with Oprah's attorney.

I have no problem with that kind of security measure.... If your gonna do it, DO IT. Go big or go home!!!!

This case is completely different than making a scene out of the receipt situation... If some retard followed me around because THEY THINK I look like I would steal something, that is completely different... That is worth making a scene about, that would justify action...

However, to take it so far as to hassle someone about a 10 second receipt check, which is what this debate is about, is retarded...

You cant treat every situation the same...

[AZhitman]

But it's NOT "10 seconds". In a lot of those stores, it's a longer wait.

I'd prefer someone follow me around the store than detain me at the door - It's the impedance of my movement that I have an issue with.

It's no different than a telemarketer interrupting my dinner - Sorry if that's "just doing your job", but don't expect me to be friendly or listen to your schpiel.

For the record, I'm not interested in making those "receipt checkers" miserable or being "a prick" to them. I just choose not to stand in line like a sheep and wait for them. They can yell at me as I stroll past with my merchandise in hand.

[thekage]

I worked @ best buy during my college days. They are so anal about loss prevention because those numbers affect the manager's bonuses iirc. I seem to remember something about employee stock relating to loss prevention. You know they tried to empower you the regular Joe Schmoe employee... Stop the loss and cut our cost! And there might be some stock or bonus option if we hit the mark this quarter! Which never happened.. but the managers still got a bonus.

As far as being hassled @ Walmart/Frys/Ect over a check... Wake up and smell the 21st century grandpa. Check card FTW. Cash back % of every sale goes right back into my bank account.

[Sil40_Mayhem]

My $0.02:

Complaining about everyone being treated as criminals until proven otherwise is akin to griping about going through airport security. Surely, not every patron who lines airline companies' pockets with cash are terrorists. Unfortunately, there's no perfect way to differentiate the honest, average Joe from they guy that's up to something. So, IMHO, sometimes a blanket approach is warranted. No, I'm not saying boosting merchandise is the same as blowing up a plane, but I'm merely comparing the philosophy behind the screening process. Even if one person is prevented from carrying out their malicious/illegal agenda, then the means would be justified.

Again, just my opinion with no basis in fact. If I felt I were being singled out and/or profiled, then that would be a whole 'nother situation. I would probably go out of my way to call attention to the matter and embarrass somebody.

[Kalok]

I worked @ best buy during my college days. They are so anal about loss prevention because those numbers affect the manager's bonuses iirc. I seem to remember something about employee stock relating to loss prevention. You know they tried to empower you the regular Joe Schmoe employee... Stop the loss and cut our cost! And there might be some stock or bonus option if we hit the mark this quarter! Which never happened.. but the managers still got a bonus.

As far as being hassled @ Walmart/Frys/Ect over a check... Wake up and smell the 21st century grandpa. Check card FTW. Cash back % of every sale goes right back into my bank account.

Whether you pay by cash, check, or credit card, you STILL get stopped. Your statement is a non-sequitor.

[Kalok]

My $0.02:

Complaining about everyone being treated as criminals until proven otherwise is akin to griping about going through airport security. Surely, not every patron who lines airline companies' pockets with cash are terrorists. Unfortunately, there's no perfect way to differentiate the honest, average Joe from they guy that's up to something. So, IMHO, sometimes a blanket approach is warranted. No, I'm not saying boosting merchandise is the same as blowing up a plane, but I'm merely comparing the philosophy behind the screening process. Even if one person is prevented from carrying out their malicious/illegal agenda, then the means would be justified.

Again, just my opinion with no basis in fact. If I felt I were being singled out and/or profiled, then that would be a whole 'nother situation. I would probably go out of my way to call attention to the matter and embarrass somebody.

There was this wise man that once said, "The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either." His name was Ben Franklin.

This quote applies equally to both scenarios.

[HashiriyaS14]

RECEIPT CHECKERS ARE A MENACE!!!!

I think that we should take the fight to them and outright accost them BEFORE they can bother us on our way out of stores.

Next time any of you enter a store that has these people, I urge you to pull down your pants and begin rubbing your genitals on them immediately. Grunting would probably help too, as would slobbering and spitting.

WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!

[AZhitman]

Complaining about everyone being treated as criminals until proven otherwise is akin to griping about going through airport security.

Even if one person is prevented from carrying out their malicious/illegal agenda, then the means would be justified.

Not even close.

One is safety-related, one is financially-motivated.

"Even if" one person is stopped from blowing up a plane, yep - 200+ lives are saves. I agree.

Compare that to:

"Even if" one shoplifter is stopped from stealing a Ludacris CD, nope. I don't give a damn.

What's next?

Gonna detain me at the tire store until my check clears?Gonna prevent me from leaving the restaurant until the bank transfers funds?Gonna rummage through my bags in every store in the mall before I can leave?Gonna search me coming out of a dressing room to make sure my underwear are really mine?

I spend 10x more at the grocery store than I do at WalMart or Fry's or BestBuy - they don't feel the need to inventory my cart.

Besides, there's no high-dollar stuff that's easily concealed in those stores anyway. Think about it. They're overly worried about theft of items that MIGHT have cost the store $5 or less.

[Kalok]

What's next?

Gonna detain me at the tire store until my check clears?Gonna prevent me from leaving the restaurant until the bank transfers funds?Gonna rummage through my bags in every store in the mall before I can leave?Gonna search me coming out of a dressing room to make sure my underwear are really mine?

Did you hear about the IHOP back east that was REQUIRING people to leave their driver's license at the door when they came in to ear to "prevent dine and dash" scenarios?

The guy that finally spoke up and said something, and incidentally got it over-turned, said that the security guard had FORTY licenses in his hand. They actually refused to serve him because he would not surrender his driver's license.

He took it up with IHOP corporate and when they got involved, the franchise doing it stopped immediately and CLAIMED that an overzealous employee started doing that; that it wasn't official policy to do so.

[Jookmasta]

well i personally think that if they are gonna make u wait in line to check to see that u didn't steal anything, it's only a matter of time till we run through some sort of machine that x-rays us to see if we have anything stolen. its a real pickle these days with the retail and i think only a few stores have really gotten the whole security thing down.

on another note, for my peeps here in fl and georgia, ever been stopped in publix? i find them to be the best at that as for the however many years i've been to that supermarket, nothing like what has been said in this thread has ever occurred...........

[AZhitman]

Criminal Justice 101: "Treat the civilized like savages, and they will lose their civility."

[DriftingJesus]

He took it up with IHOP corporate and when they got involved, the franchise doing it stopped immediately and CLAIMED that an overzealous employee started doing that; that it wasn't official policy to do so.

Exactly^ Don't be d!ck to a small fry employees take it up with corporate and have it fixed

plus when you gaiz are on the internet you can be as big a prick as you want

[JustinStrife]

There was this wise man that once said, "The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either." His name was Ben Franklin.

This quote applies equally to both scenarios.

Bringing up a Ben Franklin quote over receipt checks?

The IQ of this forum just dropped quite a few points tonight.

[skylndrftr]

not really consider it on principal...thats the point everyone is making "oh its small oh its nothing" thats the whole point. you wave it off and wave it off and next thing you know you try and get on an airplane and are told you can't ...but can't know why

[Jesda]

I don't really care about the legalities or what may be right or wrong. I'm a sociopathic misanthrope who likes to screw with innocent people, and this is yet another fun way for me to do so.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Bringing up a Ben Franklin quote over receipt checks?

Again, there's a bigger picture being portrayed that's been completely missed. It's not "over receipt checks." It's over the right to NOT be treated like a common criminal just because the store is afraid you might be one.

[yelnatsch517]

Yeah, I have a better idea, I already gave suggestions to the alternative in my previous post. And while getting rid of the entire loss prevention system certainly won't help matters, getting rid of the parts that do more harm that good will absolutely help. I'm sure you'd maintain your "pro-business" attitude if you alienated all your customers by making them feel suspect in your store. They'd find somewhere they could shop comfortably and take their money with them. You catch more bees with honey than by stepping on them.

This is exactly what happened at a hardware store in a town I used to live in. You couldn't go anywhere without being hawkeyed. Eventually, the very small population of the town got sick of it and started driving much farther to go to a decent store. The crappy store went out of business. I guess no one will be stealing from them anymore...so maybe the loss prevention strategy did work.

That point of view isn't "pro-business", it's "anti-customer" and in case you as a business owner haven't noticed, you really need customers to survive as a business.

That's why it's about balance. The guy was talking about huge stores like Walmart and Costco, not little stores. I'm quite sure those big stores do enough statistical research to show their policies work. If their system doesn't work, they won't leave it implimeneted for long. Coporates like Walmart and Costco probably spend more money on statistical consumer research than everyone's income on this forum combined. If the system truly doesn't work, it'll get changed soon enough. The fact is, most consumers don't mind and the few who do don't make enough of a difference to show on the stats.

In the end the big coporates still win. Why do you think Walmart does so well? Small stores usually have better customer service because that's what they need to stay in business, but coporates still outperform them. The fact is, majority of people would rather save a few bucks and be minorly annoyed than spend more and be treated like kings. Just don't expect both in this world and the few who do have seriously inflated egos. You want good service, then you have to give up the dough. If you can't, then get back in line with the rest of us because you sure ain't vip.

[Kalok]

Bringing up a Ben Franklin quote over receipt checks?

The IQ of this forum just dropped quite a few points tonight.

You, sir, fail at reading comprehension and seeing the larger picture.

Our freedoms are slowly being eroded and we are, ever increasingly, being more and more monitored by others as a part of daily life. They claim it is for our own good and the safety of everyone involved. Someone else said something similar. His name was Adolph Hitler.

The Brits have it even worse than we do. They have "big brother" cameras on the major streets of their larger cities "to deter crime".

Where does it end?

[thekage]

Whether you pay by cash, check, or credit card, you STILL get stopped. Your statement is a non-sequitor.

Actually I was not referring to the receipt checking lines...

As far as being hassled @ Walmart/Frys/Ect over a check...

I was making mention of an actual piece of paper commonly referred to as a "check" that one accepts as means of payment for goods or services in the course of a transaction. Cold_Zero and Hitman were conversing about no one wanting to accept these checks anymore with out a hassle.

Greg,Agreed about Fry's. I wrote a check there for a Johnny Cash CD and they hassled me about it.

My wife and I also get hassled at Walmart when we write checks for groceries.

Just to clear up any confusion... I was talking about paper checks used as money not a line for checking a recipient.

[Cold_Zero]

Good discussion all the way around. I would like to point out that Wal-Mart, not only distrusts their customers they also distrust their employees. Every transaction of their employees is video tapped. Wal-Mart appears not to trust anyone. But I guess when you are as big as Wal-Mart is, you are a big target for theft.

I remember in my days working for Marsh Supermarkets and Kroger, the emphasis that was placed on use to reduce 'shrink.' I think now they call it loss prevention. I don't know how the big box stores control their shrink. They have stuff going out the front and rear of the store. Pricing gets messed up customers are charged over and under the correct amount. Then you have all the defective and broken items that have to be packaged up and sent back to the distributor. It was tough enough in a grocery store, just imagine a super box store! But to keep things into perspective, that is their problem, not mine as a customer. They (the businesses) need to find the right mix of customer service and loss prevention.

I am a reasonable guy and understand people are just doing their jobs. But if you challenge an employee on why they are doing something, they may have a dialoge with their manager on the policy.

[NY94J30]

Something to bear in mind here are the distinctions between liberties and rights as well as between private and public actions and interactions.

These concepts form the framework of this debate.