Am I missing something? Shooting of 17 yr. old in Florida

[Bubba1]

Taking sides without all the facts. Sure it makes sense, never said it didn't. But are you also suggesting we don't have an opinion on the situation even if we don't have all the facts?

What would it matter at that point to suppress the opinion or not? ...unless the opinion the majority of people have differs from yours, i guess i could see reason for suppression in that case.

But who really cares WHEN people have an opinion? That's not anyones call to make. People will ALWAYS have an opinion, too early or not. If you'd wish to not share your opinion until you have the facts, then that's just your decision.

Every one is certainly entitled to their opinion before the facts come out. But to come to a conclusion knowing upfront that you don't have the facts can potentially make you appear foolish. Especially if the facts end up being contrary to what you've assumed.

[TTkickedin]

How you can have an opinion based on what the media has fed you is beyond me.

That's the entertainment aspect of it. They make the ordinary life of a 17 year old who got shot by some random go viral, then the government steps in and they tell the judicial system to keep Zimmerman out of jail. Then we're all outraged and we start rioting and objecting the decision made, and some people die or get fired, homes and businesses are lost, people go broke or lose everything, and police get to pepper spray and beat people to solve their issues at home and keep everyone happy. Riots stop, funerals are attended to, jobs open up, businesses are repaired and reopened or foreclosed, Trayvon is never forgotten, Zimmerman is relaxing due to his substantial immunity and eventually forgotten, but everyone goes back to normal, until the next controversial case.


Population control, s*** works. Society is a movie, and we're all just a bunch of extras.

I mena, think of all the controversial cases that didn't end up as society hoped it would with the facts that we had: rodney king, troy davis, casey anthony, OJ simpson, list goes on.

[300ZXttZMAN]

Why can't we be friends?! Why can't we be friends?! Why can't we be friends?! Why can't wee be frieeends?!

I know right? There is SO much fuss in this thread.

[hannibal]

I mena, think of all the controversial cases that didn't end up as society hoped it would with the facts that we had: rodney king, troy davis, casey anthony, OJ simpson, list goes on.

QFT! And these are all cases where portions of the public disagreed with the facts AFTER they all had been presented at trial and the cases had been decided.

[Dattebayo]

SO, what's the point of justice then if everything can be ruined simply by opinion alone? Are the sheeple king now or is there place for the process of law anymore?
Remember, there is a point where your opinion gets in the way of others' rights.

We won't let process work, yet we take matters into our own hands and let people like Spike Lee walk all over the law for money... fu*k this BS.

[TTkickedin]

Sometimes there's just not enough facts given to the public in a case.

If i were ever an employer, i would never hire Zimmerman just because he put himself in this situation. All he had to do was stay back and wait for police to show up, if he was in a fight with the kid on the phone with the operator, the only thing he had to do was put him in an arm bar or something until police showed up. At the maximum, he could've just pointed his gun at the kid and fired a non lethal shot.


Shooting to kill an unarmed person should be the last thing on somebody's mind, the other should be keeping their gun holstered until all other options fail.

Simple fact is, It's neighborhood WATCH, not neighborhood murder. You don't chase somebody you're suggesting is dangerous....You walk the other way, THEN you call the cops to tell them to watch in that area.

[numbnuts240]

At the maximum, he could've just pointed his gun at the kid and fired a non lethal shot.

bad idea on all counts.

[AppleBonker]

First degree murder in Florida is capitol punishment or life imprisonment.

Define premeditated.

[Bubba1]

Sometimes there's just not enough facts given to the public in a case.

Exactly, which is why most people that recognize that wait until the trial when ALL the evidence is laid out. You seem to have made up your mind up despite knowing you don't have all the facts.

If i were ever an employer, i would never hire Zimmerman just because he put himself in this situation.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing? His reputation is ruined no matter the outcome..

. All he had to do was stay back and wait for police to show up, if he was in a fight with the kid on the phone with the operator, the only thing he had to do was put him in an arm bar or something until police showed up.

It appears you haven't read the police report. Zimmerman claimed he was walking back to his car when Trayvon came up on him and turned the encounter violent. I don;t know if that's true or not, but it's significant. You've also assumed Zimmerman knew how to fight. Pretty clear he didn't. Not everyone can. And it's kinda hard for someone unaccustomed to defending himself to put an attacker in an arm lock while getting their head bashed repeatedly into the sidewalk. You know?

At the maximum, he could've just pointed his gun at the kid and fired a non lethal shot.

So you suggest he should have carefully aimed for a non-vital area while he was getting his head bashed into the sidewalk? Get real.
If you want to keep inserting hindsight, there should not have been a shooting at all if the two simply talked with each other.

Shooting to kill an unarmed person should be the last thing on somebody's mind, the other should be keeping their gun holstered until all other options fail.

Of course, UNLESS the shooter felt his life was in peril. And that is why the police did not immediately arrest Zimmerman. The early eyewitness testimony appeared to agree with Zimmerman's assertion that it was self defense. That doesn't mean that's the truth and case closed. That simply means more investigation is needed. The media pretty much decided not to wait and ran with the story anyway skewing to make it much more juicy a story than it really was.

Simple fact is, It's neighborhood WATCH, not neighborhood murder. .

Agreed. I can't fathom what Zimmerman hoped to gain by carrying a gun during a neighborhood watch stint in a gated community. But one must recognize that it's not illegal to carry a gun if you have a permit. And if Zimmerman had a carry permit, there's no requirement for him to announce to everyone he comes in contact with that he has a gun. Make sense?

]. You don't chase somebody you're suggesting is dangerous....You walk the other way, THEN you call the cops to tell them to watch in that area.

I agree. But if you read Zimmerman's version in the Sanford police report, he claimed he did stop following Trayvon shortly after speaking with the cops, and was walking back to his car when Trayvon approached him and allegedly initiated the argument/fight. I have no idea if that's true. That's the special investigator job to determine. But I hope you see that it's possible that Zimmerman did exactly what you said above that he should have done.
This is why it's premature to conclude what happened without all the facts.

I hope I'm not wasting my time here.

[audtatious]

Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department. …
Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a
real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can
give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or
he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking
about.
Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic?
Zimmerman: He looks black.
Dispatcher: Did you see what he was wearing?
Zimmerman: Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or
sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's [unintelligible], he was just staring…
Dispatcher: OK, he's just walking around the area…
Zimmerman: …looking at all the houses.
Dispatcher: OK…
Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me.
Dispatcher: OK—you said it's 1111 Retreat View? Or 111?
Zimmerman: That's the clubhouse…
Dispatcher: That's the clubhouse, do you know what the—he's near the
clubhouse right now?
Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me.
Dispatcher: OK.
Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.
Dispatcher: How old would you say he looks?
Zimmerman: He's got button on his shirt, late teens.
Dispatcher: Late teens ok.
Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got
something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is.
Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok
Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?
Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does
anything else.
Zimmerman: Okay. These ***holes they always get away. When you come to the
clubhouse you come straight in and make a left. Actually you would go past the
clubhouse.
Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?
Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left…uh
you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. s*** he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance…f*** [unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Ok
Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?
Zimmerman: George…He ran.
Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman
Dispatcher: And George what's the phone number you're calling from?
Zimmerman: [redacted by Mother Jones]
Dispatcher: Alright George we do have them on the way, do you want to meet with the
officer when they get out there?
Zimmerman: Alright, where you going to meet with them at?
Zimmerman: If they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the
club house, and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they
go past the mailboxes, that’s my truck...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.
Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?
Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]
Dispatcher: What’s your apartment number?
Zimmerman: It’s a home it’s 1950, oh crap I don’t want to give it all out, I don’t
know where this kid is.
Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes
then?
Zimmerman: Yeah that’s fine.
Dispatcher: Alright George, I’ll let them know to meet you around there okay?
Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at?
Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that’s no problem.
Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?
Dispatcher: Yeah I got it [redacted by Mother Jones]
Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.
Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I’ll let them know to call you when you’re in the
area.
Zimmerman: Thanks.
Dispatcher: You’re welcome.

[TTkickedin]

Sometimes there's just not enough facts given to the public in a case.

Exactly, which is why most people that recognize that wait until the trial when ALL the evidence is laid out. You seem to have made up your mind up despite knowing you don't have all the facts.

If i were ever an employer, i would never hire Zimmerman just because he put himself in this situation.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing? His reputation is ruined no matter the outcome..

. All he had to do was stay back and wait for police to show up, if he was in a fight with the kid on the phone with the operator, the only thing he had to do was put him in an arm bar or something until police showed up.

It appears you haven't read the police report. Zimmerman claimed he was walking back to his car when Trayvon came up on him and turned the encounter violent. I don;t know if that's true or not, but it's significant. You've also assumed Zimmerman knew how to fight. Pretty clear he didn't. Not everyone can. And it's kinda hard for someone unaccustomed to defending himself to put an attacker in an arm lock while getting their head bashed repeatedly into the sidewalk. You know?

At the maximum, he could've just pointed his gun at the kid and fired a non lethal shot.

So you suggest he should have carefully aimed for a non-vital area while he was getting his head bashed into the sidewalk? Get real.
If you want to keep inserting hindsight, there should not have been a shooting at all if the two simply talked with each other.

Shooting to kill an unarmed person should be the last thing on somebody's mind, the other should be keeping their gun holstered until all other options fail.

Of course, UNLESS the shooter felt his life was in peril. And that is why the police did not immediately arrest Zimmerman. The early eyewitness testimony appeared to agree with Zimmerman's assertion that it was self defense. That doesn't mean that's the truth and case closed. That simply means more investigation is needed. The media pretty much decided not to wait and ran with the story anyway skewing to make it much more juicy a story than it really was.

Simple fact is, It's neighborhood WATCH, not neighborhood murder. .

Agreed. I can't fathom what Zimmerman hoped to gain by carrying a gun during a neighborhood watch stint in a gated community. But one must recognize that it's not illegal to carry a gun if you have a permit. And if Zimmerman had a carry permit, there's no requirement for him to announce to everyone he comes in contact with that he has a gun. Make sense?

]. You don't chase somebody you're suggesting is dangerous....You walk the other way, THEN you call the cops to tell them to watch in that area.

I agree. But if you read Zimmerman's version in the Sanford police report, he claimed he did stop following Trayvon shortly after speaking with the cops, and was walking back to his car when Trayvon approached him and allegedly initiated the argument/fight. I have no idea if that's true. That's the special investigator job to determine. But I hope you see that it's possible that Zimmerman did exactly what you said above that he should have done.
This is why it's premature to conclude what happened without all the facts.

I hope I'm not wasting my time here.

You are wasting your time because Some of wha tyou had to say was ALSO in hindsight. You don't know if he can fight. You don't know how he was positioned when he pulled the trigger. You don't know that he did everythign he was supposed to do either, so countering My take on the situation is equally as useless as my take on the situation, there is NO high horse to get on in terms of this. Zimmerman could've been high on drugs or drunk, and nobody would know because NO tests were taken for this guy.

He has 3 prior dismissed cases, one where he beat an officer and resisted arrest. THIS should raise suspicion that he did SOMETHING wrong in this case, because apparently he did know how to fight an officer right? Oh wait, we forgot that little technicality. So assume he could put a smaller kid in a choke hold. Cops were on their way.


Theres two sides, no matter how the media portrays it, there is STILL two sides and as of right now, both based off of speculation. So yes, you're wasting your time just as much as I am.

[TTkickedin]

Okay. These ***holes they always get away.

QFT.

Motive: Didn't want this ***hole to get away. Probably went to his truck for his gun. Who knows?
Result: Dead teenager.

[Rev_D21]

So let's ask you this. If all the facts come to light and Zimmerman is found not guilty by proof of evidence will you still think he is guilty?

[Bubba1]

I agree it's become a waste of time trying to explain this case to you because you either can't or won't see the hypocrisy of your conclusions.

[numbnuts240]

So let's ask you this. If all the facts come to light and Zimmerman is found not guilty by proof of evidence will you still think he is guilty?

depends on how you stand in the o.j. trial.

[audtatious]

Okay. These ***holes they always get away.

QFT.

Motive: Didn't want this ***hole to get away. Probably went to his truck for his gun. Who knows?
Result: Dead teenager.

Really? That's a jump. Not surprising from you at this point.

"look, the sky is above the tree so the tree must hold up the sky"

[AppleBonker]

Okay. These ***holes they always get away.

QFT.

Motive: Didn't want this ***hole to get away. Probably went to his truck for his gun. Who knows?

Apparently you do.

[Rev_D21]

Hate to bring politics into this but it seems like a big "Get Out the Obama Vote!" kind of event to me.

[stebo0728]

http://www.boortz.com/weblogs/nealz-nuz ... n-arrested

How pissed off would the race pimps Sharpton, Jackson, and now Spike, be if Moonpie was arrested before Zimmerman. LOL

And from what I'm hearing now, all these cutsie pics of Trayvon that are being passed around are WAY old. He was a football playing, well built dude who way overpowered Zimmerman.

That said, I still think things were aggravated by Zimmerman's pursuit, I dont know that it equates to guilt, but this whole thing has definitely been taken advantage of, and things like this can only be taken advantage of when people are mindless drones.

Side note: Who saw Corinne Brown in her full idiotic glory? She was PWN't by that reporter, PWN't HARD!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGkMPU4cjg0[/youtube]

Why does Florida keep voting for her?

[surfnsiggg35]

hot topic!

[TTkickedin]

So let's ask you this. If all the facts come to light and Zimmerman is found not guilty by proof of evidence will you still think he is guilty?

NO.

Funny thing is, if i said Zimmerman was innocent, no argument would've ensued.

Because everyone who has tried to tell me to not call an opinion have pretty much been backing up Zimmerman.

You've also assumed Zimmerman knew how to fight. Pretty clear he didn't.

But if you read Zimmerman's version in the Sanford police report.

If you're complaining about me coming to opinions with no facts, You're eassentially doing the same thing I am. Going off what you see in the media and insinuating that Zimmerman is innocent.

If you have no bias as you say, come up with plausible stories favoring both sides, not just FOR Zimmerman's innocence alone. Or just take your own advice.

That's hypocrisy, actually.

[TTkickedin]

http://www.boortz.com/weblogs/nealz-nuz ... n-arrested

How pissed off would the race pimps Sharpton, Jackson, and now Spike, be if Moonpie was arrested before Zimmerman. LOL

You want to know why he hasn't been arrested? The FBI is doing an investigation on the claim and the parties responsible, which takes time.

Less can be said in the case causing these separate events, i'm sure.

[stebo0728]

Theres a very real difference between preforming an opinion (we all do it) and calling for action based on that opinion. Im not saying you've done that, but the idiots we're complaining about have. Its ok if you're opinion is that Zimmerman is guilty, mine was too to begin with, and still sort of is, but I'm also open to modulating my opinion as facts filter in. For one, the media set this up from the beginning to look like a big 'ol mean white man picking on a teensie straight laced black boy. As things pan out its starting to show that it wasn't quite that way.

The stage has been set to where, if it happens Zimmerman is exonerated, he'll have to move to another state, maybe country, because despite evidence, the streets have already convicted him. Thats sad. Just as Trayvon had every right to walk down the street, Zimmerman had every right, barring a valid restraining order, to walk down the same street. If he was engaged and defended himself, then pursuit or not, he stood his ground in defending his life. That may not be the case when this flushes out, but if you've already convicted, sentenced, and executed him in your mind, you need to step back a step or two, and evaluate things objectively.

[Bubba1]

So let's ask you this. If all the facts come to light and Zimmerman is found not guilty by proof of evidence will you still think he is guilty?

NO.

Funny thing is, if i said Zimmerman was innocent, no argument would've ensued.

Because everyone who has tried to tell me to not call an opinion have pretty much been backing up Zimmerman.

You've also assumed Zimmerman knew how to fight. Pretty clear he didn't.

But if you read Zimmerman's version in the Sanford police report.

If you're complaining about me coming to opinions with no facts, You're eassentially doing the same thing I am. Going off what you see in the media and insinuating that Zimmerman is innocent.

If you have no bias as you say, come up with plausible stories favoring both sides, not just FOR Zimmerman's innocence alone. Or just take your own advice.

That's hypocrisy, actually.

No, it isn't. Hypocrisy is sticking firm to a conclusion despite acknowledging not having all the facts necessary to make that conclusion. But it is perfectly appropriate to use examples (including eyewitness testimony) for the other side to make the point that your conclusion was premature.

[DJ_B_Easy]

How do you unsubscribe from a thread?

[stebo0728]

How do you unsubscribe from a thread?

Delete your email account and get a new hotmail

[TTkickedin]

Theres a very real difference between preforming an opinion (we all do it) and calling for action based on that opinion. Im not saying you've done that, but the idiots we're complaining about have.

Thank you for pointing this out!

But really, the only action I'd like to see is a more thorough investigation. That's the only action that I think would be necessary at this point. This proposed action isn't based off opinion.

I honestly don't know why for the last 3 pages I was the primary topic of this failure of a thread when all I would like is a better investigation.

For somebody to say I can't have an opinion when thats pretty much what all scientists/paleontologists/pretty much every information driven occupation does. That's not right to say.

My OPINION is that he's guilty, just given what we're given. If your opinion DIFFERS, that's cool, but you cannot completely discredit my OPINION. My OPINION that if he was actually found to be guilty, that I would give him Life imprisonment. I really shouldn't have to be saying IMO before everything i write. Use your judgement to discern what's opinion and what's a fact based statement from here in because it saves me from writing it out... seems we all forget what IMO means as well.

[snwbrdr435]

Is their an ignore user feature?

[audtatious]

How do you unsubscribe from a thread?

You should be able to do it via the user control panel link to the right, under the flashing SEARCH button.

[DJ_B_Easy]

^Thanks! Ill see you guys when the next no end topic comes around...