alright, UNDERRATED cars?

[nsrZ32]

Definitely SVT Focus.....forgot to add that one. Might as well include the SVT Contour, that's a solid underappreciated car.

[Red coupe]

im getting the eg for only 1200 bucks.....runs great too...

solid, finaly a legitamte car purchas from you, but damn even you have to laught at you selling the TA already...[/random thread jack]

[Looneybomber]

Definitely SVT Focus.....forgot to add that one. Might as well include the SVT Contour, that's a solid underappreciated car.

That's because it's a contour and wasn't on the road long enough to be appreciated. They were job security for my dad at the Ford dealership where he works as a mechanic.

SVT Focus, yes, SVT contour? That just dirtied up SVT's name.

[Jesda]

I think the RL is actually overrated. They make a huge deal out of the SH-AWD system that directs power to each wheel, but it -still- cant keep up with a RWD BMW 5-series.

SVT Focus, yes, SVT contour? That just dirtied up SVT's name.

SVT Contour is a heck of a fun little car though, reliability issues aside. It should have been called the Contour GT.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I think the RL is actually overrated.

Agreed. The RL is a lot like the TSX for me: if it had an H on the grille instead of an A it would be just another car. It's also one of the ugliest Acuras ever made. Every "round" Acura ends up looking like crap. They need to stick to what they do well.

[gniknave]

I think the RL is actually overrated. They make a huge deal out of the SH-AWD system that directs power to each wheel, but it -still- cant keep up with a RWD BMW 5-series.

I thought the same thing at first. But every day we have these product knowledge presentations that a different salesperson does on a certain car. One of our salespeople volunteered to do a presentation on a used Acura RL (05) that was fully loaded. His wife had one, so therefore he was pretty knowledgeable about the car.

There's a lot of very innovative features the car has that people don't know about and aren't in a brochure. He explained in great detail how the SH-AWD system actually works, and then compared it to the AWD system BMW & Infiniti offer. It's a bit more advanced than the BMW & Infiniti system.

The RL was also equipped with On-Star, XM radio - which was linked with the Navigation and had XM-Navtraffic. You could even get restaurant ratings on the nav system.

I actually sold the RL last Thursday to a guy that was driving a 98 RL special edition. I had to drive it to gas it up in an insane rain storm. It gripped the road like nothing I'd ever driven. I really tried to break it loose but it wouldn't slip at all. The motor was also very impressive. Had a nice VQ like growl to it.

It has this nice noise dampening feature that cancels out all exterior noise. Brent (the guy that did the demonstration) told me to put my finger over this small hole near the sunroof while i drive. When I did that, you could hear EVERYTHING. I'm talking engine, radio, a bit of wind, etc. But when I took my finger off of it, it got quiet again. It was like the effect of opening a window, then closing it.

I'm not a big fan of the styling. But after having someone actually tell me about the car, then having driven it, I have to say it's very underapreciated for what it can do. Worth every penny.

[wonS14aero]

Acura is not gonna sell many RLs until Honda wakes and realize that luxury car buyers want a car that looks like a luxury car, not a upsized Civic or Accord and gives it a V8 option and RWD.

[mkory]

I've always been a fan of older escorts.

Don't let us forget about the Dodge Shadow R/T

[gniknave]

Acura is not gonna sell many RLs until Honda wakes and realize that luxury car buyers want a car that looks like a luxury car, not a upsized Civic or Accord and gives it a V8 option and RWD.

The RL is selling just fine. And Lexus has already proved that some luxury car buyers don't give a rats behind what engine or drive wheels their car has. The only thing about that car that says Honda is the VTEC engine. Otherwise it doesn't resemble a Honda in any way, shape, or form.

[Jesda]

The RL is selling just fine. And Lexus has already proved that some luxury car buyers don't give a rats behind what engine or drive wheels their car has.

The Big Mac just isn't good enough as a sandwich, despite the quantities sold.

There's a lot of very innovative features the car has that people don't know about and aren't in a brochure. He explained in great detail how the SH-AWD system actually works, and then compared it to the AWD system BMW & Infiniti offer. It's a bit more advanced than the BMW & Infiniti system.

Did he drive around the same course in a 5-series to show how ineffective the system is at competing with a real sedan chassis? Its a nice AWD system, but it still isnt enough to make the car competitive against real sport sedans. I wonder how it compares to 4Matic and Quattro?

At least Acura offers the TL...

[Veriest1]

but i found a eg hatch 8 vlave im gonna use for my DD and use thru college.

That should be a fun car. Make sure to hit up a couple of autocrosses just for fun.

Ford Focus SVT:

I have to agree with this. Many don't even know what they are. I didn't until I met a guy with one.

The Older Miatas

Yeah, they only have their own racing series.

I'm going to go ahead and add the BMW 318.

[HashiriyaS14]

In regards to the RL, one of the guys here at work just got one for like $41,500 brand new, with the nav and everything.

As I understand it, that's WAY under MSRP. That should be some indication of how they're selling.

They are very nice cars, just not worth $50k+ IMO. Nice alternative to a Caddy DTS for someone who wants a FWD luxo car (these people do exist).

I still like the old RL though, that car was classy lookin'. New one doesn't hold a candle in the form department.

EDIT: I always thought the 318i sucked. Does it not suck? I've never driven one, only an E36 328, E30 325, and an E46 M3.

EDIT AGAIN: SVT Contours are a blast. It is the true successor to the 1st gen Taurus SHO. VERY underrated car.

[Veriest1]

They still have the handling prowess of their chassis. Kind of like a heavy miata. Some success has been had boosting them. I think GRM did an article on boosting an e30 318. The e30's are nice because they don't wieght as much as the e36's but the e36's still handle as well (some say better b/c of the 4 cyl up front) as their bigger brothers.

EDIT: They're kind of like a stock 240sx (probably handle slightly better though) in that you aren't going to win many drag races but you still have a competent chassis. Personally I'd rather swap an SR into a 318 than a 240. You wont get asked to pop your hood as often that's for sure. It has been done a couple of times too I think.

Modified by Veriest1 at 4:02 PM 8/16/2006
Modified by Veriest1 at 4:03 PM 8/16/2006

[gniknave]

The Big Mac just isn't good enough as a sandwich, despite the quantities sold.

Did he drive around the same course in a 5-series to show how ineffective the system is at competing with a real sedan chassis? Its a nice AWD system, but it still isnt enough to make the car competitive against real sport sedans. I wonder how it compares to 4Matic and Quattro?

At least Acura offers the TL...

In reality, I think comparing the RL to a 5-series is a bit unfair. They don't really even have the same purpose. He was jsut comparing the AWD systems. I don't think anything can touch 4matic/Quattro. As for the TL, nice car, but I think it's an absolute bore to drive (in an automatic).

[mkory]

Truck Bash Evan?

[HashiriyaS14]

Personally I'd rather swap an SR into a 318 than a 240. You wont get asked to pop your hood as often that's for sure. It has been done a couple of times too I think.

Actually, turbo JDM swaps into BMW's are very popular in Germany. I used to have a picture of an E30 3-series with an RB25 in it, but I dunno what I did with it.

I'd say it's at least as popular as the whole "V8 in RX7" thing is here, if not more so.

[Jesda]

In reality, I think comparing the RL to a 5-series is a bit unfair. They don't really even have the same purpose. He was jsut comparing the AWD systems. I don't think anything can touch 4matic/Quattro. As for the TL, nice car, but I think it's an absolute bore to drive (in an automatic).

You're right, and there is a big market for DTS/RL/ES types of cars. They're certainly likeable in their own ways. Acura, however, is claiming MB and BMW as competitors. It really isnt up there. Not yet.

[Bubba1]

[QUOTE=JimmyMethod]F4 SS/Z28/WS6/Formula

Audi Ur Quattro (used to get props, but now days, hardly anyone knows about them...)

I have. I know few owners. Urq's rock.

[Veriest1]

Actually, turbo JDM swaps into BMW's are very popular in Germany.

I'd say it's at least as popular as the whole "V8 in RX7" thing is here, if not more so.

It's just easier for me to say "a couple of times" with I think tacked onto it than it is to search for specific examples. I know I've seen pictures of a 1.8 Z3 with an SR in the states.

Grass Roots Motorsports was quite happy with their supercharged e30 318. I think I've posted about it before and I'm sure their site could yield some information for anyone interested.

[gniknave]

Acura, however, is claiming MB and BMW as competitors. It really isnt up there. Not yet.

Last I heard, they wanted to make themselves exclusively an entry-luxury segment so they can be all to themselves. I think the'd be more successful at that than trying to [very unsuccessfully] target MB and BMW. If they really want to target MB and BMW, they're going to have to get serious.

They've killed off the majority of the enthusiast following they had in the Integra and the RSX. At this point, they're headed in the Lexus direction, except without a V8 and a true flagship sedan.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

I think Saabs (900, 9-3, 9-5, not the new ones) are underrated. Nobody really likes them because of their looks. But they do have potential. As for me, I like their looks and I wouldn't mind owning one. If I could get my hands on a 9-3 Viggen...I would jump at it. I just wish GM would stop ******* them up.

[twoeightythreez]

I own a G50 and can honestly say its one of the most under rated cars ever built.
Everyone thinks the LS 400 was so much better, but in my area the LS is a very rare sight. Despite much lower production numbers and Zero respect, there are more Q45's around. Still very rare, but not as much as the Lexus.
I also nominate the original taurus SHO.
Only available in a manual trans, wicked yamaha DOHC V-6,
One of the fastest sedans of it's time, not even bad looking in a sedan way,
Everyone shunned it because it was percieved as a POS taurus.

[Bubba1]

Holy Zombie thread, Batman.

G50? Hmm, perhaps. The G50 and it's predecessor G sedan have always been considered good cars for the money, but they've been hampered in recent years by a combination of Infiniti renaming their entire model lineup, which erased most of the good reputation it earned as a "G", and Infiniti's overall brand reliability rankings taking a huge turn for the worse beginning the same model year they did the model name changes.

The LS400? Uh, no. Not under-rated at all. You also can't compare it to an entry model Infiniti sedan like a Q50. the LS400 was the top rated full sized luxury car for several years, and it's gotten (and still has decades later) far more respect than you give credit. I'm guessing you were not around when they first came out. I suppose one could argue that the Lexus models that came AFTER the LS400 might be considered over-rated. The original Infiniti Q45 would make a far better choice as an under-rated Infiniti than a Q50. Infiniti sold very few Q45's as compared to Lexus selling LS400's. the Q45 was a great driver's luxury car but was terribly mis-marketed, which pretty much killed it's sales coming out of the gate. That's what I call under-rated.

The original Taurus SHO? I dunno, probably not. I think you pretty much nailed it that as it was essentially an POS Taurus with a screaming Yamaha motor stuffed in it. It was a Rodney Dangerfield kinda performance car, kinda like an SRT Neon. Fast but you can't escape it's unimpressive underpinnings. And there's more to a car than just straightline acceleration, which was the original SHO's few highlights. So I'm not sure the original SHO should be considered under-rated. As far as looks, that's subjective. I considered the first gen Taurus the best looking among Tauri, but overall it was kinda bland.

[Jesda]

I think you're confused, Joel. G50 is the chassis code for the first Q45, indeed a very underrated car that was far more interesting to drive and look at than the LS400, though the LS400 is very, very nice and arguably a bit better built. LS400 is certainly cheaper and easier to maintain.

Original Taurus SHO still has a huge following. It is to this day an excellent car to drive. I wouldn't call it underrated at all.

I think the Acura Vigor is underrated, as is the Lexus GS. Cadillac's 2005-2011 STS is a bit underrated.

[Bubba1]

Jesda. oops! typo on my part. I meant Q50 as in what Infiniti renamed the G series back in 2013. Good catch. I also agree about the Vigor and GS being under-rated, but not the Caddy.

[Jesda]

Jesda. oops! typo on my part. I meant Q50 as in what Infiniti renamed the G series back in 2013. Good catch. I also agree about the Vigor and GS being under-rated, but not the Caddy.

Because you've never driven the V with the supercharged Northstar.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Vigor is one of my favorite underrated cars. Everything that was great about early Acura in one place.

I agree on the subject of the RWD STS, too. They got sort of passed over by most for being only marginally bigger than the CTS, with basically the same styling only tamer, and the same base V6. In reality, the STS is a much nicer car in a lot of respects. I prefer it to the contemporary CTS aside from the lack of a clutch pedal. I kind of feel like nobody really went shopping for an STS, but a lot of people took one home once they drove one. They just weren't the kind of people to talk much about it. Probably a bunch of would-be DeVille owners who got a look at what modern Caddies could be and wanted to take that home instead (even though the STS is a fair bit less roomy than the DeVille). I rarely see anyone even remotely young behind the wheel of an STS from that era, but I'd sure love to be the outlier in that statistic.
I think Caddy made a big mistake by making the HF V6 the base engine instead of just putting Northstars in every STS. But, then again, most STSes I see on the road are AWD V6 models because people are apparently psychotic. Who the Hell buys a V6 AWD Cadillac? Just go buy a damn Escalade if you're that afraid of the weather!

I'd like to humbly submit the LS8 as well. Most people think they're total garbage, largely because the first gen kind of was. But it's also an extremely lightweight car on a superbly balanced platform with a wonderfully matched powerplant (I'm ignoring the existence of the Duratec-powered models, here, which are most certainly NOT underrated). The styling is pretty bland but generally handsome and has aged quite well. The featureset has also remained pretty solid; with the THX system you'd get basically everything you'd find in any old 2016 model except for adaptive cruise and auto-braking. And they're actually quite cheap to own, especially once you learn which Ford models to pilfer your parts from. I've spent less money owning the LS8 for 6 years than I have on any other car for considerably less time, including the venerable and indestructible J30 Maxima.

Speaking of J30s, I think the Infiniti J30 certainly qualifies. A reasonably agile RWD platform with a DOHC VG V6 under the hood and looks that make most people wonder exactly what exciting drugs Japan must have been doing in the 90s adds up to a car everyone but a handful of us has forgotten. Another car that probably would have lived longer in people's memories if it had just had a third pedal in its footwells.
I was always disappointed (well, until Johan "car names are hard" DeNysschen took over and sharted all over everything and then left everyone else to swiffer it all up) that Infiniti never brought the J name back. The G35 always felt like it should have been the J35 to me.

[Bubba1]

No, Jesda, but I have driven the new Supercharged Corvette Z06, which has more power and less heft. Are you suggesting the Northstar motor is significantly better?

[frapjap]

In the spirit of this thread, hows that translating these days?
Any winners? Losers?

I don't see the Miata mentioned.

[Jesda]

No, Jesda, but I have driven the new Supercharged Corvette Z06, which has more power and less heft. Are you suggesting the Northstar motor is significantly better?

It's a far smoother, silkier engine in a luxury sedan.

You're comparing apples to pickles.

I'd be kind of a rube, for example, to compare a Lexus LS400 with a V8 to, say, a Supra with a 1UZ. Heck, the Corvette has an OHV V8 while the STS-V has a DOHC V8 with a supercharger. They aren't even on the same planet, much less the same galaxy.

You've driven a lot of cars of all kinds, but you still haven't driven enough.