a petition to put prayer back in schools.

[nissanrose]

i have a petition that my mom's friend sent her and it is about putting prayer back in the schools. i was wondering if you all would please sign it. If you want to sign it please let me know and i will e-mail it to you. i understand that not all of you will sign but i am hoping a good amount of you will. lets put the one america turned to on 9/11 back into schools and try to make the world a better place. i also understand that not all of you will agree with my views,but that is what America is all about right? thanks nissanrose.

[UncleBen]

i'm with your 110%. email me at [email protected] thanks for having the guts to put a thread like this up. i know some people may think it stupid, but i know i dont, and some other dont' think it is either.

[lessthanjakejohn]

yo thats unconstitutionNAL. I think its unconsiderate when people wnat everyone to pray with them.

Not trying to spark a debatem good look anyway.

[MaineExport]

Well.. this is a tough one. I'm a religious man... and I believe that prayer should be "allowed" in school... but I also firmly believe in the constitution... and the separation of Church and State. Prayer should not be mandated... and it should not be led by faculty... but perhaps time for "reflection" should be given at the beginning of each school day. This would allow every student to pray, reflect, think, or just chill for a minute in whatever quiet way they feel best suits their beliefs. This would be the ultimate show of the true American spirit.. freedom to chose and worship how we want to.

Please email me the petition and I will read it and make my judgement about signing it or not. Thanks.

Greg

[Tino]

gah damn mimp you live for this ****.

[MaineExport]

gah damn mimp you live for this ****.

Yes Tino... I guess I do... I can't help myself.

Hi... I'm Greg..

And I'm a debate-a-holic....

[darkeagle]

My cousin in GA, her school has bible classes. I mean sounds good idea to but yet everyone has a differ religion unless they make it like a club where everyone of their own religion meets and has prayer....I'll take a look at the petition and maybe sign it after I read it, [email protected]

I'll say though although I think its partial good idea but I'm not a church goer anymore. I use to when I was younger but I dont go to church. I've been to baptist and church of christ, maybe someday I'll get baptise as well. But for now "no preference" on religion for me. These kids now though, young generation they need something make them think about something good besides going out and shooting class mates, beating parents, probably from lack of respect and no discipline.

[MaineExport]

Brini... does your cousin go to a private school? If not, that is pretty suspect. Unless the class is a study in theology.. and the Bible happens to be one of their texts... then that is pretty much unconstitutional.

[darkeagle]

I'm not sure what kind of school it is, but she lives in a small town. Few years back they had like all mixed of grade levels and such. I mean stuff I never hear about. We both from same family but when I talk to my cousin on the phone, she's 16, she has so much respect you can tell it, she calls mom "ma" and dad "pa", she'll say yes mam, no sir....it shocks me. Literally, I'm like amazed I guess b/c how my uncle has raised her. It might be private but they live in a small town of GA, Lumbercity.

[VimyJ]

I dunno AZ. This thread is at least as controversial as my poll was. Could I say precedent, perhaps?

[Tino]

We need a slogan for general...

"Welcome to General Chat, you got beef? let us know, we're here to help."

[VimyJ]

lets put the one america turned to on 9/11 back into schools and try to make the world a better place.... i also understand that not all of you will agree with my views...

Does it ever cross your mind that many of the murderers that killed our brothers and sisters in freedom 9/11 went to religous schools?

[Mayhem_J30]

Does someone actually need seperate time set aside to pray to whatever diety they happen to worship? why can't you just pray in silence to yourself? Besides I'm willing to bet 99% of kids don't pray anyway, unless they're in a Catholic school then they're forced to. The only two times I remember praying in HS was that this one guy wouldn't kick my *** and that this girl wasn't wearing any undies.

[MaineExport]

Does it ever cross your mind that many of the murderers that killed our brothers and sisters in freedom 9/11 went to religous schools?

Again, Vimy... you speak the truth... but there is more behind it than a black and white statement like that.

If they were 'better' Muslims.. their interpretation of the Koran might not have led them to the murderous act.

They were undoubtedly devoted to their cause... but their cause seems to have diverted from their religious beliefs. We all know how ambiguous religion can be... and the door is wide open for interpretation.

[darkeagle]

I use to say a bed time prayer my grandma taught me but i havent prayed well, I did this past week b/c my mom had surgery, and I say a thought that my uncle makes it each day b/c of his cancer condition. that he'll make it each day more. Thats about it though. I say it to myself in my head when something isnt going right. heh

[lessthanjakejohn]

Vimy:

That is why religion should never be employed in public schools. It is too powerful.

[MaineExport]

Does someone actually need seperate time set aside to pray to whatever diety they happen to worship? why can't you just pray in silence to yourself?

No... we don't NEED it... but it would be a grand gesture and bring a feeling of unity to the schools. It would be more for the act than the substance of the act.

[lessthanjakejohn]

This petition is only "Showoff", showing that christians are better and need time to pray because they need to show others. Others, like me, do not want to listen. I might take "prayer time" in schools to the extent of advertising, propaganda.

[VimyJ]

If they were 'better' Muslims.. their interpretation of the Koran might not have led them to the murderous act.

We all know how ambiguous religion can be... and the door is wide open for interpretation.

I dunno, Maine. They had faith that they were martyrs of god. They believed.

The war between east and west is coming. Too bad W is botching his opportunity to get this thing going. We'll need all our friends on board to fight this one.

[VimyJ]

Vimy:

That is why religion should never be employed in public schools. It is too powerful.

Don't get all scared or paranoid by this quote: "Religion is the oppiate of the masses", Karl Marx. Just because Marx's ideology failed doesn't mean that he didn't have a few things worked out and this ideology is still killing a lot of people even today just like most of the world's great ideologies. Marx's mother must be proud.

[lessthanjakejohn]

I am studying Soviet History right now. And in english I just read animal farm. Have you read that? It is a simple book but so "unsimple".

[AZhitman]

A few points to ponder, so take your time:

ONE: The Constitution guarantees freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. There's a HUGE difference. I can elaborate if necessary, but you're all smart people.

TWO: You CAN NOT get away from the fact that the US is a Christian nation, founded as such. However, Christianity is a religion of ACCEPTANCE, of loving others regardless of their beliefs. Doesn't mean the Christian has to APPROVE of their beliefs and ideologies, just that we are to love all of our neighbors as ourselves.

THREE: Vimy has a valid point. That is a PERFECT example of why when you hear someone say, "It doesn't matter what you believe in, as long as you're sincere", then you should be concerned. What you believe DOES matter. The 9-11 terrorists had a SINCERE belief that they were doing the right thing. So did Jim Jones' followers, the heaven's Gate cultists, the Koresh crew in Waco, and so on. You can have a sincere belief that is sincerely wrong.

p.s. Let's be VERY careful with this thread - I'll keep it open because I think it has validity and purpose. I respect all of you for sharing your opinions here, and I'm glad you all feel comfortable enough here to do so.

nissanrose, I'll take a copy of that petition - shoot it on over.

[ratm]

I don't like the idea of putting aside time in school for prayer. If you truly believe in what the constitution says, that all people have the freedom to practice the religion they choose, that also means that they have the right to not practice a religion. Setting aside time during the school day for prayer then forces the idea of religion on people who may not believe in it. Even if it isn't stated as time for prayer it is still greatly implied. If we provide time for prayer at the beginning of the school day why not provide a time for muslims who are supposed to pray 5 times a day. If prayer is truly that important to you, why not wake up 10 minutes early and pray before you leave for school. If you feel the need to pray at school then why not be part of the group that prays silently at your locker. I have no problem with praying in school as long as people do it on there own time and no one is forced to do it.

[MaineExport]

You make an excelent point, ratm... but that is why I was careful not to label it a moment of prayer. In theory it is a time to reflect. There is nothig wrong with taking 60 secons to close your eyes (or not) and quietly think, or pray, or space out for that matter. I feel it is a gesture of unity and thoughtfulness... that's all.

[VimyJ]

A few points to ponder, so take your time:

ONE: The Constitution guarantees freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. There's a HUGE difference.

The constitution guarnatee refers to freedom from state imposed religion. The state under the constitution guarantees that church and state are separate. The state cannot promote religion. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[darkeagle]

I dont have nothing against if for being in schools, I mean you say the pledge of allegiance in school which takes maybe a minute to run thru, maybe an ending prayer for a minute would be fine for them to do.

A baptist preacher came to my grandma's church of christ and tried to preach there and got really upset b/c some people would get up and go else where or leave early and he shouted toward a kid b/c he got up for the bathroom. Of course the preacher left, he was more like fired from the church and ever since then I never gone back. I know I'm always told I need to be baptise but why when you dont know for sure what you might believe in. I'm undecided because I'm not sure what I want to believe in and I dont like the idea of going to a church and being told you will burn for doing this or that when I know half the church is guilty themselves. Having people look at you in church like you dont fit with them, the judging of it all. Thats how I feel about it, that I'm being judged of the things I do. You know when you do wrong and you know when something is right, but yet almost everyone cant say they never done a bad thing about it and most that I know that go to this church act like they are so much better b/c they own expensive things, dress nicer and judge everyone else, probably one bad experince i had from church and I just dont want to go back. (sorry got caught in a moment )

[ratm]

I understand your point but, I thought that was the purpose of the pledge of allegiance. The pledge is intended as a way to unite Americans and a time to pay respects to those who have lost their lives for our freedom. I didn't agree with some of the things in the pledge but I still stood in respect of war veterans. I don't know if all schools do this through high school. We didn't do it when I was in high school in Connecticut but when we moved to Texas we did.

[AZhitman]

Correct Vimy. One of these days, however, you're gonna have to realize that just saying "I agree" is just as easy as disputing 10% of what is said. I'm weary of the technicalities. And that's not your story, that's the story of the founding fathers - But you're welcome to adopt it as your own.

Bottom line, if a group wants to pray during school, there's not a damn thing the school can do about it. If 90% of the kids in school want to take 10 minutes every morning to pray, they can, and the kids who don't like it have to deal with it. The school is not forcing it, they are a non-participant. Maine and ratm have nailed it.

In case any of you are interested, there's a reason for the decline in societal values - We have systematically eliminated God from our daily lives and the lives of our children. If anyone's interested, I can go on for hours on this topic.

[lessthanjakejohn]

Damn, I took my time! Im't still confused. What has been bothering me is that "right is relative" that just bothers the snot out of me.

When you get down to it staying away from the religion side this ends up being 10 minutes to think. Heck I don't want a planned time where I have to think. I want to think when I have something that needs thinking. We need a scracthing your head emoticon.

Hey nissanrose send me an email at [email protected] yes 911 as in 9/11

[darkeagle]

Our school here is unique in our county. The highschool I went to we had a club called Not In My School, I was in the club for a bit but I never got to really do most things the others did b/c new ones didnt at first. But they had some of a morning stand around the flag pole for however long praying and all. We have to graves in a fence b/c well town I live in the old folks are raciest, but anyways...the club in our school did have prayers and such. But it was done in the club. We had moment of silences and such every morning at 8 when the bell rung for everyone to be in class. Which ya know gave you time to either think or clear your head or make some wish for it class to be over with. On 9/11 we held a thing on the football field to honor the ones that lost their lives and we had an actual prayer but that was for good reason though.