450whp on 93 octane AMS KA24DET

[WDRacing]

Ok, there's NOTHING wrong with swapping any motor into any car. To argue anything else is retarded. To argue, "keep it in the family" is retarded.

Any posts made after this point about swapping motors will be deleted.

WD

[Chris@AMS]

[KATwo40]

at least he knows how to make power with his "low displacement motor"

i know that'll stir up the pot a lil

Yeah. It's all stirred up. Because, everyone knows that, mod for mod, low displacement wins. Turbo V8's are teh suxxors!!!111!1!!!!11!1!!one!!!!eleventy!!!!1!

(NOTE: I never mentioned what rhymes with "Boater Flop" so please don't delete)

Chris, why the dyno overlay?

[lrb_2000]

I think it's a graph of stock vs his engine now.

[9sec240]

In a street car, sure, I'd prefer the lower end torque, since I don't drive around town hangin' around 8k rpm all day (yeah, I'm exaggerating a bit). But I suppose in a more drag than street car, I'd probably go for higher end of the RPM range cams to get that flow for the MPH at the end of the strip. I can see the angle on that, for sure (no sarcasm here).

Please take note of the last dyno graph Chris posted. It shows his car STOCK and his last runs on the dyno. Notice that there WAY MORE HP and TQ now EVERYWHERE compared to the stock graph. Notice that at only 2000 rpms, his TQ is now about equal to PEAK TQ Stock. By 3500 rpms, TQ is double stock at the same rpm.

So my question to everyone is: What would make you think this car has no power down low? How would this car be less drivable than stock? So it wont smoke the tires at 2000 rpms like a 5.0 mustang will...... but by 4000 rpms when the mustang is WAY past peak TQ.... you better be hanging on for dear life.

Besides, has everybody forgotten how to down shift?

[WDRacing]

I don't think anyone was saying that a boosted 240 has less low end grunt then NA form...thats just retarded. I could see that argument made aianst your car Ivan, but you have an auto with a turbo twice the size of Chris'.

There is no argument that can be made where a V8 and the KA can be compared and one is chosen decidedly as the winner. Either one makes more power or it doesn't. Especially on the drag strip where the race takes place in that cars given power curve. Its retarded to compare, anything can be geared accordingly.

However, it is nice to line up against a modded 302/350 whatever, when they're making 450WHP and so are you...with 1/2 the motor.

WD

[klattr1]

Chris, that graph speaks a million words..

[Florida240sx]

So what is inside this engine?? Is it just a crate stock motor?? What compression pistons? HG? ARP hardware??

[Reno]

indeed.......

[KATwo40]

Please take note of the last dyno graph Chris posted. It shows his car STOCK and his last runs on the dyno. Notice that there WAY MORE HP and TQ now EVERYWHERE compared to the stock graph. Notice that at only 2000 rpms, his TQ is now about equal to PEAK TQ Stock. By 3500 rpms, TQ is double stock at the same rpm.

So my question to everyone is: What would make you think this car has no power down low? How would this car be less drivable than stock? So it wont smoke the tires at 2000 rpms like a 5.0 mustang will...... but by 4000 rpms when the mustang is WAY past peak TQ.... you better be hanging on for dear life.

Besides, has everybody forgotten how to down shift?

I don't know what would make you assume that I'm comparing to a stock KA.

I was complimenting the setup and the tune, and instantly I'm returned a gay *** overlay torque graph, rather than a "yes thank you, we have really put some time into the tune on this car."

I was referring to cams that shifted the torque curve to allow for more low end torque, which would certainly adversely affect peak horsepower, but would allow for a peaky feel in the lower rpm range, where many like to drive (since we're not all of the "rev to eleventy-thousand rpm" mindset).

So, I'll try one more time.

Nice numbers, guys. Especially for the boost and pump gas.

Modified by KATwo40 at 7:21 PM 3/13/2007
Modified by KATwo40 at 8:36 PM 3/13/2007

[Kaleo55]

First of all I'd like to congratulate Chris on his accomplishments with his KA, secondly I like to say that greatly admire respect every who's posted on this thread as they've been in many cases an inspiration for me. However, I must also say that this thread smacks of one big AMS fraternity. Don't get me wrong I respect AMS and I have bought my fair share pf product from them. Some of you know I've been running an ongoing thread of my project KA-T. I recently posted an initial dyno run of the motor and while not reaching 450 hp, on that day we made 332 rwhp at 14lbs at 5200 rpm. This is on a stock MAF and 68lb injectors. I don't think it would be that much harder for me to reach 400+ by ratcheting everything up to take on 20+lbs of boost. Any way, I have not seen any one from AMS type a word (or even Greg, I'm hurt- not really) of encouragement on my thread. WD's been a lone supporter in my efforts get boosted and it's been a long tough road. Chris, God Bless you if you can keep those 450 streetable and civil on S-chassis, all the best to you.

Kal

[WDRacing]

Secretly I'm in love with you Kal...

[epokh]

Very nice numbers Chris!! (I suppose for congratulating someones accompishment, I am now a "nutswinger" or "AMS frat-boy" ) I honestly can't believe this thread started anything resembling an argument. It doesn't matter if this was done by AMS or Joe Schmoe, the result is highly impressive.(unless you're pushing over 450 on PUMP GAS, then you have nothing to argue.) I personally commend ANYONE on here who has a properly runing KA-T, but recognizing an accomplishment above and beyond the norm, regardless of who is involved, should certainly not be looked down upon. Apparently everyone on the forum now drives 600HP KAs on 87 octane.

As the old adage goes...Give credit where credit is due. Congratulate, maybe ask for more info....and move on.(I know I don't post a whole lot on here, and I'm definitely not taking anything away from anyone on the forums...Folks like WD, Klattr, Nissanfanatic,..the list goes on.... have been around a long time and I look to all of you for inspiration and pertinent info....I just thought this thread turned a tad ridiculous at some point)

my .02

[9sec240]

Thank you to everyone that has posted here. Discussions help eveyone learn and grow. We are not looking for a fan club or even trying to sell you parts.... we are mearly showing you the results of some of the "what if" questions that most of us ponder.

What if you built an intake for the KA.... What if you put cams in the KA...What if you could straighten out VE in the KA...

450 whp is not the portion of the graph that we are so geeked about, its the flat TQ curve. We are slowly turning the KA motor into a 4G63 in terms of VE. Look at the TQ drop in the chart. Its only 50 lbs.... not the usual KA 150 lb drop. Keep in mind that this is with a VERY small turbo that is nearly maxed out. Also keep in mind that this is without boost creep. Special note to the rpms we were pulling to.

The extra 100 hp up top did not come from an increase in boost, it came from better air flow just by installing an intake manifold and cams with the appropriate tuning for those parts.

The charts are cool to look at, but driving the car is what is really crazy. The accleration just never lets up.

[Chris@AMS]

I don't know what would make you assume that I'm comparing to a stock KA.

I was complimenting the setup and the tune, and instantly I'm returned a gay *** overlay torque graph, rather than a "yes thank you, we have really put some time into the tune on this car."

I was referring to cams that shifted the torque curve to allow for more low end torque, which would certainly adversely affect peak horsepower, but would allow for a peaky feel in the lower rpm range, where many like to drive (since we're not all of the "rev to eleventy-thousand rpm" mindset).

So, I'll try one more time.

Nice numbers, guys. Especially for the boost and pump gas.

The graph was not posted in responc to your post, its not all about you geeze. haha

I just wanted to illustrate to everyone the difference in torque from the factory motor. I appreciate your kind words about the setup.

I still don't agree with this peaky feeling of torque where most of us drive, but I guess its turning out to be a difference of opinion. What happens when you get past the peak? I don't find that car fun to drive in any situation...

This has nothing to do with eleventy thousand rpm, this is about a flat ve curve.

[Chris@AMS]

First of all I'd like to congratulate Chris on his accomplishments with his KA, secondly I like to say that greatly admire respect every who's posted on this thread as they've been in many cases an inspiration for me. However, I must also say that this thread smacks of one big AMS fraternity. Don't get me wrong I respect AMS and I have bought my fair share pf product from them. Some of you know I've been running an ongoing thread of my project KA-T. I recently posted an initial dyno run of the motor and while not reaching 450 hp, on that day we made 332 rwhp at 14lbs at 5200 rpm. This is on a stock MAF and 68lb injectors. I don't think it would be that much harder for me to reach 400+ by ratcheting everything up to take on 20+lbs of boost. Any way, I have not seen any one from AMS type a word (or even Greg, I'm hurt- not really) of encouragement on my thread. WD's been a lone supporter in my efforts get boosted and it's been a long tough road. Chris, God Bless you if you can keep those 450 streetable and civil on S-chassis, all the best to you.

Kal

Sorry, I dont have time to be as recreational on this forum as I would like. Nice numbers, and good luck with the car. Don't take it personally, I don't go into anyones hp thread and compliment them.

[Chris@AMS]

So what is inside this engine?? Is it just a crate stock motor?? What compression pistons? HG? ARP hardware??

AMS KA24DET Crate Motor-o-ring block-11mm head studs-ARP main studs-calico bearings-AMS sportsman rods-Arias pistons-shimmed oil pump for higher pressure-other new OEM stuffs

AMS KA24DET Turbo kit with GT33 turbo and 44mm Tial WGAMS 240sx (ka and sr) Fuel system w/ 75lb injectors, fuel lab regulator and a walbroCrower Stage 3 camsStock ignitionPrototype AMS intake manifoldAEM EMS

[AZhitman]

Some of you know I've been running an ongoing thread of my project KA-T. I recently posted an initial dyno run of the motor and while not reaching 450 hp, on that day we made 332 rwhp at 14lbs at 5200 rpm. This is on a stock MAF and 68lb injectors. I don't think it would be that much harder for me to reach 400+ by ratcheting everything up to take on 20+lbs of boost. Any way, I have not seen any one from AMS type a word (or even Greg, I'm hurt- not really) of encouragement on my thread. WD's been a lone supporter in my efforts get boosted and it's been a long tough road. Chris, God Bless you if you can keep those 450 streetable and civil on S-chassis, all the best to you.

Kal

....sorry, Kal.

Actually, I'm more embarassed that I missed it, and I'm flattered that anyone would give a crap what I think. I'm just a schmo.

[AZhitman]

Chris - Can you tell us a little more about the cams, and the benefit on a boosted motor?

[Chris@AMS]

Also!

-This is a stock head-These are stock bore pistons 8.8:1

The first graph I posted illustrates these differences.

lowest hp, stock manifold, stock camsmiddle hp, manifold onlyhighest hp, manifold and s3 cams

You can see that the middle to highest hp run has no losses in the mid range torque. The only thing the cams did was give me more hp which was much appreciated .

When used in conjunction with the stock manifold, losses have been recorded for torque, and gains have been large in the higher rpms.

[klattr1]

I recently posted an initial dyno run of the motor and while not reaching 450 hp, on that day we made 332 rwhp at 14lbs at 5200 rpm. This is on a stock MAF and 68lb injectors. I don't think it would be that much harder for me to reach 400+ by ratcheting everything up to take on 20+lbs of boost.Kal

congrats...now if you want some advice, definitely upgrade the mafs...im surprised you were able to get where you were at with the stock mafs...but maybe thats why your run stopped at 5200 rpms...was it leaning out like crazy?
Modified by klattr1 at 3:39 PM 3/14/2007

[justjuiceit44]

What kind of AFR where you running? What kind of timing were you running? If you had some graphs that would be awesome! Big thumbs up for running that much boost and getting that much hp on pump gas!

[nissanfanatic]

Besides, has everybody forgotten how to down shift?

haha seriously.. Last time I raced a STS equipped GTO, he downshifted too...and lost...

[S13psi]

And I know there's only maybe a few people in this thread who could even HANDLE a 450whp S-chassis at full-boogie.

Too much SuperStreet and GT4 has numbed people's brains to the reality of what 450whp really is.

To try to put these numbers in perspective...

Assuming he dosen't weigh 500lbs, can get any of that power to the ground, and drive, Chris should/could stomp an:

04 Ferrari 360 Modena (badly) $155,00006 Porsche 911 Carrera (worse) $72,09507 GT500 slowstang (driver might cry ) $41,67506 Lambo Murcielago (I know that sounds rediculous) $283,000

And if these guys can't drive/miss a shift or anything they're dead too...

07 Corvette Z06 $66,46507 Viper SRT-10 $83,995

How's that for fast?We can't forget about our buddy the power to weight ratio.

btw the numbers i used for this are from the car and driver website.

[S13psi]

that's not to mention the dozens of cars that are slower than these monsters!

[nissanfanatic]

The C6 Z06 would be a GOOD run.. They trap around 128mph stock IIRC..

[Jookmasta]

mmmmmmmmmm lots to comment on so first off congrats on making that kind of power. any ka-t that is over 350rwhp is an accomplishment in my eyes. i'm surprised to see a 3 page thread over some dyno results. i guess that's what happens when one opinion is taken the wrong way. props does go to AMS though. People that said that it isn't that great of numbers to come from a performance shop need to either have a similar performance shop to talk or need to really get back to reality. Does your 240 produce more power than his? If not, i don't see how you can really bash/criticize or say anything really negative. Keep in mind what this car is for. AMS is probably not going to have 2 1000 HP KA-Ts. This is the guy's own personal car and DD.

Alot of people in this thread missed a very major point that Chris was probably trying to get across. Does anyone own their GT33 turbo? Has anyone ever maxed out that turbo? Well guess what, i think he is nearing the max of it. Did you know that it could make that kind of power? Just trying to make sure that people aren't just looking at dyno graphs to see the different colored lines.

To Cory, was it an LS1 or LS2 GTO?

And last but not least, as said earlier, you don't have to be an AMS nutswinger to throw out a complement. The KA-T section is here to help those with questions about the KA-T and to talk about KA-Ts. Don't really know why the negative remarks were made. As for WD, he's been like this since i joined NICO lol. I expected nothing less. lol.

[Chris@AMS]

Here is my car thru 4th gear on the street. Shaker hood FTW!

http://www.turbo240.com/cblack/450whpS13.MOV

[nissanfanatic]

LS1 on 5psi.

Nice freaking run, Chris...!! You can tell its pulling HARD..!!

[nissanfanatic]

And last but not least, as said earlier, you don't have to be an AMS nutswinger to throw out a complement. The KA-T section is here to help those with questions about the KA-T and to talk about KA-Ts. Don't really know why the negative remarks were made. As for WD, he's been like this since i joined NICO lol. I expected nothing less. lol.

Exactly. By posting up results on each modification performed on the car, poor guys like me get an idea of what I am buying. In response to doing this and furthering R&D based on results, they effectively make our life easier by building good products to sell so we don't have to fabricate everything ourselves..

And I've placed a total of two orders at AMS(headstuds and a Hallman MBC). Not exactly a nutswinger..