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Interesting. Very interesting.

Of course, it's nice to replace everything on the car, but, I had decided NOT to replace the two VH45DE motor mounts (as long as they were good) as they added a few hundred dollars to the bill. However, if they are shot, then, of course, I'll replace them (while all the parts are off).

The engine did NOT bounce when it was running; it was smooth as silk.

The mount may look stretched in the photo ... but remember the three legged transverse engine support bar is tightly bolted above which is, in effect, pulling the engine upward. (I didn't want to bother you guys too much so I didn't ask the question I had which was HOW TIGHTLY to tighten the pull on the two engine slingers). I made them pretty tight so that the engine actually rose in its seat off the motor mounts BEFORE I went under the car.
Since it takes a few days for Joe to ship parts, I should ask this group if the mount looks obviously in need of replacement.

Attachment: nico_q45_oilpan_motor_mount_diagnosis_during_disassembly.jpg (87987 bytes, downloaded 990 times)

Here's a shot of the transverse link (i.e., the "lower control arm" above) swung down and out of the way, with the associated dismembered parts named in yellow.

Notice the three remaining 17 mm nuts holding the front engine crossmember to the frame are all that remains (on each side) this late evening, for me to remove to begin lowering that crossmember and then gaining access to the 18 oil pan bolts (one of which is still hidden beneath the "engine gusset"). Does this sound like a reasonable assumption?

Since I couldn't get the alternator off, I will try to get to the hidden oilpan bolt from the side of the gusset. Also note that I deviated from procedure by only removing the ONE lower bolt on the "steering lower joint". I'm hoping the force of the weight of the crossmember will detach it from that portion of the steering lower joint. (Does that sound like a reasonable assumption?)

Also notice the circled nut (the one toward the rear of the car) which has a much longer tapered bolt inside. This one bolt necessitated another trip this evening to the store (just before they closed) to obtain a second set of impact sockets, this set being deep sockets. A conventional length socket will NOT fit around that nut safely and securely (the other two are fine for conventional length 17 mm sockets).

Attachment: nico_q45_oilpan_closeup_of_transverse_link_attachments.jpg (95748 bytes, downloaded 957 times)

Unfortunately, I couldn't budge the remaining three (on each side) 17 mm crossmember nuts with (my apparently still lousy) air impact wrench. The new 18 inch breaker bar & 18 inch kinked-head breaker bar didn't work either.

However, what worked surprisingly easily was adding a 30 inch length of 1 inch inside diameter steel pipe to the breaker bar (covering the whole breaker bar so as not to put undue force upon it).

Archimedes had us in mind when he exclaimed in 230 B.C., "give me a lever and a place to stand, and I will move the world."

In fact, two of the three (on each side) remaining 17 mm nuts easily spun loose (with a series of complaining groans) with this tremendous leverage (even for a small person like I am).

That third nut (the one toward the rear of the car) required the deep impact sockt, which I only picked up at the store just before they closed and after I cleaned up and put everything away. So, only one 17 mm nut is left to be removed (using the deep impact sockets and an 18 inch breaker bar plus a 30 inch length of steel tubing if necessary).

Attachment: nico_q45_oilpan_removal_of_17mm_crossmember_bolts_with_leverage.jpg (54442 bytes, downloaded 834 times)

Without folks like you guys and without good manuals, I wonder if mechanics just remove stuff and hope that works ... then remove more stuff and keep hoping until it does work. I can't see any other way (without specific on-the-car training classes or folks like you guys.)

Anyway ...

Along with the impact deep socket set, at the store I picked up two bottle jacks (I'm guessing they may help hold the crossmember while I remove the remaining two 17 mm nuts with the deep impact sockets) which were amazingly inexpensive. Coincidentally, I picked up a 24 inch pry bar (in case I really must remove the alternator; and, just for me, a pair of coveralls which I always wanted (I'm tired of ruining my jeans and tops).

With only those two 17mm nuts left, here's the list if items NOT done:
- alternator is still on the car (albeit it's unbolted)
- compressor is still bolted in (hiding the engine gusset bolts)
- engine gusset is still bolted in (hiding one oilpan bolt)
----------
- "steering lower joint" is still on the lower steering arm (the lower bolt has been removed only because I couldn't get to the upper bolt)
- the squeefoo hint "electrical connector" at the steering rack is still on
- the steering rack remains bolted (4 bolts) to the engine crossmember
-----------

I still have a few questions (which will help others too).
Q1: Is my assumption reasonable that removing only the lower bolt of the steering lower joint will work? I couldn't get the upper bolt off. I'm assuming the crossmember is heavy enough to pull the lowest shaft out of the joint at the bottom.

Q2: It remains to be seen whether the engine gusset really has to be removed (I'm hoping I can get to that last hidden oilpan bolt from the side once the crossmember is moved out of the way).

Q3: How on earth am I going to keep the crossmember from falling down if I do not remove the steering rack from the crossmember (should I just bite the bullet and remove the remaining four bolts holding the steering rack to the crossmember?) It seems the crossmember, being very heavy, will be in my way the whole time I'm working on the oil pan if I don't remove it from the car.

Whew! I'm still a long way off. I think Dennis was right. This is a big job (for me, anyway). In hindsight, I would never have tackled this if I knew what I know now. But, I'm in the quicksand now and I plan on crossing this river!

I'm at work but leafing through my archived photos (I've taken more than a thousand), I see what appears to be a steering connector (see photo below).

Is this the connector that needs be removed?
Are those the three bolts holding it on to the rack?

Attachment: nico_q45_oilpan_steering_rack_electrical_connection.jpg (66267 bytes, downloaded 849 times)

The test is to rev it in neutral and see how much it torques in the engine bay. FSTB are a good indicator if the engine hits it. If I remember, more than an inch and a half rotational deflection is enough to indicate the need for new motor mounts.

In any case, after 14 years, I think it is safe to assume the time has come. Q45tech has replaced his 2 or 3 times in 270K+ miles in that time.

First, someone mentioned that this hasn't been a waste of time talking about how to get bolts off. I think it was very valuable. I know I've learned alot about air tool maintence in this thread.

Second, the motor mounts. IMHO, replace 'em. You'll probably never have the opportunity to do again without going through something similar. It's like pulling the plenum off, might as well replace the hoses. I know that the guys at T3 said I could use new motor mounts.

You mentioned that you wonder if people just keep pulling things off until they get it right....that's what me and my uncle always had to do. In those days there was no Internet group to ask and if you think Infiniti's FSM is bad, try some of those aftermarket things!

Looking back, besides carrying somewhere to have a pro do it, do you think it'd been easier to pull the engine?

Done- Jeff Williams FSTB, Touring Rear Sway Bar, Valve Cover Gaskets, Fuel Filter, Spark Plugs, Brakes, Michelin Pilot Exalto 96V tires, Cleaned MAF, Cleaned Throttle Body, Cleaned EGR, Steering Rack Boots, Upper Links, Tokiko Blues, Boots and Bump Stops, Replaced Various Bushings, Mobile 1 Oil and Filter, BG-44K, Synthetic Fluid in Diff.

Pending- Alignment, Transmission Cooler

1994 Black/Black Q45 150,500 miles
1998 Beige/Beige QX4 164,000 miles
1995 Black/Black J30 (RIP)
1997 Beige/Beige QX4 (RIP)

Electrical connector: The circled w/yellow bolts do not need to be removed, just the connector. On mine it appears to clip in approx. the middle of the car, follow the wire loom from the picture to the end where it clips.

Yes the entire crossmember has to come off, Wes is right. It also appears that the steering rack can be unbolted and left to hang, instead of disconnecting all the hydraulic lines. It doesn't look like the crossmember is real heavy -I'd guess ~ 70# and could be lowered with a floor jack and some balance and care. Since I haven't taken mine apart I can't really say with certainty.

Yes it is a big job, but look at all the experience you've gained from just this. You're doing great.
PS: If you are stuck in quicksand how do you cross the river? (!!??) j/k

I actually forgot to recommend using deep sockets... I used deep sockets for all of mine..

Quote »

Huh? Nobody said anything about an electrical connector that needs to be removed from the steering rack. It's not in the FSM directions, but then, not much is. (Frankly, I don't know how mechanics work on any vehicle they've never been trained on --- there's soooo much left unsaid in the shop manuals.) Without folks like you guys and without good manuals, I wonder if mechanics just remove stuff and hope that works ... then remove more stuff and keep hoping until it does work. I can't see any other way (without specific on-the-car training classes or folks like you guys.)

This is PRECISELY why I am choosey about what other people will do on my Q...

Quote »

just for me, a pair of coveralls which I always wanted (I'm tired of ruining my jeans and tops).

I dedicated a pair of pants and a sweatshirt to working on the Q... This is what an engine removal will do to a pair of pants....

Quote, originally posted by Squee »

Electrical connector: The circled w/yellow bolts do not need to be removed, just the connector. On mine it appears to clip in approx. the middle of the car, follow the wire loom from the picture to the end where it clips.

Hes right..... Its located in the middle ish, youll see it... Thats the only one what will pertain to you, there are others that are required for engine removal....

Quote, originally posted by Tangalora »

Q1: Is my assumption reasonable that removing only the lower bolt of the steering lower joint will work? I couldn't get the upper bolt off. I'm assuming the crossmember is heavy enough to pull the lowest shaft out of the joint at the bottom. Q2: It remains to be seen whether the engine gusset really has to be removed (I'm hoping I can get to that last hidden oilpan bolt from the side once the crossmember is moved out of the way). Q3: How on earth am I going to keep the crossmember from falling down if I do not remove the steering rack from the crossmember (should I just bite the bullet and remove the remaining four bolts holding the steering rack to the crossmember?) It seems the crossmember, being very heavy, will be in my way the whole time I'm working on the oil pan if I don't remove it from the car.

1. Yes.. I just loosened both err took them out, and when I lowered it down it came right off... Just spray some of that lube stuff on there and youl be fine... It goes on MUCH easier than it goes off, but we will have to make sure you get your steering wheel aligned right, as thats something I messed up on Jesda's car... When we get to putting it back togther, i will expound...

2. I guess time will tell.. Unsure yet, but I bet theres a way.....

3. You are right... Just use the jacks as said, I dont know how heavy it is, but if its the same as all the other componetnts, they look heavy but arent at all..... I dare say the engine cross member may be easily liftable by hand... You *****gotta***** remove it regardless... The steering rack isnt very heavy, I was able to easliy manipulate it around when I did rack bushigns... There is only one high pressure hydraulic line that you need to worry about, if memory serves.....

Also as dennis said DO NOT remove the solenoid..... only time it should be is if it needs replaced.....

Ill bust out some of my photos to try and help.....

Attachment: pants.jpg (411683 bytes, downloaded 884 times)

I would never be hesitant to an engine swap on another Q after doing it to mine...

I already removed all the plastic on the cowl (for the third leg of the engine support) and I removed the fan shroud (to get to the alternator & belts).

But, more importantly, I"M CONFUSED.

WHICH BOLTS need to come off to remove the steering rack from the crossmember?

At first we thought there were ten nuts to remove on the crossmember (5 on each side); but am I supposed to remove the steering rack from the crossmember? I must've missed that step so please re-advise to clarify.

If I am to remove the steering rack from the crossmember, I suspect the four bolts (see photo below) nearer the center of the crossmember (two on each side) are the correct bolts? Please advise.

Also, I ordered already the driver & passenger side steering rack bushings (8 dollars & 6 dollars respectively) from Joe. While talking to Joe, he intimated the bushings go OUTSIDE the steering rack. I looked at the exploded diagrams INSIDE the steering rack. I'd really rather not take the steering rack apart so can you advise where those two bushings are to go when they arrive?

Lastly, in the move from New York to here, I made a mess of the house. Then, in the time while my wrist healed, I lost the 16 dollar silicone stuff Joe sent me for the oil pan gasket. I'll look for it, but, if I don't find it, can the red permatex RTV work just as well?

Sorry for so many questions.
The deeper I go, the more questions seem to be raised.
The good news is the answer is available to everyone who follows us.

Attachment: nico_q45_oilpan_steering_rack_bolts.jpg (44729 bytes, downloaded 769 times)

Leave the steering rack hooked on to the member..... More importantly, i dont know if its *possible* to remove the steering rack with the cross member in place..... Its not adding *that* much weight......

Quote »

Also, I ordered already the driver & passenger side steering rack bushings (8 dollars & 6 dollars respectively) from Joe. While talking to Joe, he intimated the bushings go OUTSIDE the steering rack. I looked at the exploded diagrams INSIDE the steering rack. I'd really rather not take the steering rack apart so can you advise where those two bushings are to go when they arrive?

Steering rack bushings are attached to the OUTSIDE of the rack... what tehy do is hold it in place, and allow it some play... when they get worn out, they have the symptoms of the steering wheel not centering right, and so on.. but since the extra labor is nil almost, your stupid not to replace them... You wont have to take apart anything on the rack... just replace the bushigns on the OUTSIDE. attached is a photo helping you out...

I dont know, i think RTV might be ok.....

Also, when you quoted me, I was replying to someone else.....

I dont see no photo. I'm curious too where these bushings are. My steering wheel shakes like the dikens on the freewya. Can you post photo again to help me.

I personally use Permatex copper.

Your diagram helps immensly!
I'm glad the steering rack doesn't have to be taken apart.

Thanks for taking the time to point out those two steering "rack mounting insulators" (I haven't yet received them from Joe).

Armed with your diagram, I see a similar (if not the same) one in the 1990 Infiniti Q45 Factory Shop Manual (FSM) in the section titled "Power Stearing Gear & Linkage (Model PR26SE)" on page ST-15 (diagram SST511B). However, I don't see an R&R for the rack mounting insulators.

Is the photo below correctly pointing to the passenger side "rack mounting insulator"? I'm still confused because it appears the two bolts holding the rack to the crossmember are the same bolts (are they?) holding the u-shaped brackets holding the steering "rack mounting insulators". ??? Or does the rack mounting insulator get removed some other way (presumably they are doughnut shaped so something has to give somewhere to remove them).

P.S. I do see the electrical connector previously mentioned.
Thanks for that admonition to disconnect that.
I wonder what it controls.

Attachment: nico_q45_oilpan_steering_rack_electrical_connector.jpg (210092 bytes, downloaded 854 times)

Heath

Quote, originally posted by T »

Is the photo below correctly pointing to the passenger side "rack mounting insulator"? I'm still confused because it appears the two bolts holding the rack to the crossmember are the same bolts (are they?) holding the u-shaped brackets holding the steering "rack mounting insulators". ??? Or does the rack mounting insulator get removed some other way (presumably they are doughnut shaped so something has to give somewhere to remove them).

Your correct, they are the same bolts.. But due to the placement, you cannot replace the steering rack with the cross member in place... The bushings are cut so that you wrap them around the rack...

the connector is the thing that connects to the power steering solenoid, i think

Q45Tech recently described it's operation. I forgot.

OK, I think I've got it. I want to mentally rehearse the steps for the actual removal of the "iron cross of death" before I do anything brash. What's been confusing me about the steering rack bushings is that the steering "tie rods" are still attached to the wheel (I think) so that rack isn't going to go anywhere (it seems to me) but flop around when I remove the crossmember --- yet the steering rack won't even flop around as it's boltd to the crossmember. Does my dilemma make sense?

How can I remove the crossmember without removing the steering rack if the steering rack is tightly bolted to the crossmember? It doesn't seem to make sense to me (but I might be missing something that is obvious to you).

I was hoping to finish this job this weekend and do a write up with photos for the next person to sail right through, but a family emergency came up and I have to fly to Kennedy tomorrow morning so, I won't be back on this 'till all the turkey day leftovers have been eaten and we begin the new week of work.

Thanks guys ... I'll catch up with you when I get back.
Tang

Attachment: nico_q45_oilpan_steering_rack_bolts_to_crossmember.jpg (64667 bytes, downloaded 690 times)

Like I said before the steering rack WILL REMAIN ATTACHED TO THE CROSS MEMBER!!! You will replace the bushings when the cross member and its related components are off the car..... Everything susupension and steering related is bolted to the crossmember, so it will come off...

Unfortunately, since you havent gotten the member off the car, im not so sure youll be getting this done in one weekend, unless you bust arse..... Just speaking from DIY experience, big jobs like this never take the allotted time unless you really know what your doing (and you certainly like to prepare on everything)...

So lets review...

Right now, you essentially have the crossmember ready to come out... The engine is supported from above, the suspension is taken out... Basically all you have to do is unbolt the member from the car, drop it down, DROP THE OIL PAN (I think we're forgetting the object of this whole job), repair and replace the oil pan and other components (hopefully the oil strainer isnt bad), and then put it all back together....

While the crossmember is out, you will replace things like the motor mounts (I hope) and the steering rack bushings... THis shouldnt add much labor..

Might be getting a little ahead of myself, but are you planning on doing like a "summary" using some of the pics youve taken.... if so, id really appreciate an article we could use to put on Q45.org and also on NICO.....

Those two mounts are dangling teasingly (tauntingly) right now.
I don't know how to remove them from the engine.
Since it's not oil pan related, per se, in an existing separate thread http://www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=1963 (www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=1963) I appended a question on how best to remove the last (top) nut on those two dangling motor mounts.

Also, the two steering rack bushings are not oil pan related, per se, so I posted photos of them (and the parts from Joe) in the existing separate thread http://www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=90711 (www.nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=90711).

Quote, originally posted by Wes »

I'd really appreciate an article we could use to put on Q45.org and also on NICO...

Any time. The whole reason I take a thousand photos per job (sunvisor, fuel pump, brakes, etc.) is to help others do what I couldn't (at first) do. In my opinion, you guys do all the work by answering my (sometimes stoopid) questions. I learn from you. In that spirit, I plan on typing up the writeup I've already handwritten on the back of a printout of this thread for a complete oil pan R&R. That way, everyone after us benefits from our efforts. Of course, I'm not done yet - still peeling the onion - and finding (undocumented) surprises - but, together we'll get there (I hope) after the last few stumbling blocks are overcome (see below).

Quote, originally posted by Wes »

... Basically all you have to do is unbolt the member from the car, drop it down, DROP THE OIL PAN, replace the oil pan and other components (hopefully the oil strainer isnt bad), and then put it all back together....

I wish it were that simple (or am I doing something wrong?).
This oilpan R&R is (exasperatingly) sort of like peeling an (undocumented) onion.

For example, now that I lowered the front engine crossmember, I can see more of the 18 oil pan bolts.
However, the rear oilpan bolts are occluded by some kind of transmission supports with funny-looking capped nuts (see photo).

Hmmmm ... how did we miss this step?

In the '90 FSM, on page AT-117 (diagram SAT769C) seems to be an arrow pointing to these braces with the caption:
"Remove gusset securing engine to A/T assembly".

It appears that, while the front engine gusset is blocking one bolt, apparently two rear engine gussets (perhaps holding the transmission to the engine) seem to be blocking all of the rearward oil pan bolts. Whew!

Why aren't these two transmission gussets mentioned anywhere?
There might be a hidden hint in the 90 FSM oilpan R&R (page EM-11), which provides the following (simple) directions:
... remove steering lower joint ...
... support the transmission ... <=== maybe due to these 2 gussets?
... hoist engine with engine slinger ...
... remove suspension member assembly ...
... remove oil pan bolts and nuts ...
... remove oil pan ...

Q: Must these two transmission gussets also be removed?

Attachment: nico_q45_oilpan_transmission_gusset_occlusion.jpg (68048 bytes, downloaded 678 times)

I think also the outer tie rod ends must be removed from the steering knuckles, in order to properly lower the suspension member.

Hmmmm ... the front engine crossmember is now out of my way (I think).
See the photo below where it is dropping down held to the Q45 only by the steering rack, steering hoses, and steering tie-rod ends (I think).

If I were to unbolt the 4 bolts holding the steering rack to the crossmember, the crossmember would still be held to the Q45 by the tie rod ends (as you noted).

Removing the tie rod ends (even if I mark them) might change my alignment (toe-in perhaps?) so I'd rather not remove them unless I had to. Of course, toe is the easiest alignment task for a do-it-yourselfer such as I am (for example, eight feet of string, a nail on each end, some chalk to mark the tread center, and a tape measure should suffice).

However, I ask you:
Q: Do I really need to completely remove the crossmember?
It seems to be out of my way now that it hangs down 15 inches or so from the engine itself (see photo).

Attachment: nico_q45_oilpan_crossmember_removal_last_attachment_tie_rod_ends.jpg (60319 bytes, downloaded 751 times)

Is it the pic, or is your car raked at a really steep incline there? I'd like to see a profile pic!

Good job so far, I'm very impressed. Stay safe.

Q1: Does hanging the x-member on the steering cause too much stress?
A1: I have no idea. Should I remove the rack immediately to prevent further damage? I suspect all I'd need to do is remove the four bolts and the x-member would pop free (I don't think I need to remove the tie rod ends anymore ... aren't they connected to the rack & not to the x-member)?

Q2: Is your Q45 on an incline.
A2: Yes. See photo below. Ever since I moved into a "house on a hill", I've been getting good at working on the sloped driveway. For example, I wait 'till dropped tools & bolts roll down to the rear wheels to pick 'em up. Notice the new bottle jacks I bought also were too short. In hindsight, I should've measured the 18 inch height to the crossmember before buying those tools!

Q3: Why has nothing ever been said of the transmission gussets?
A3: I have no idea why these haven't been noted anywhere before?
Why have these two transmission gussets not been mentioned anywhere yet? I'm worried that I'd be doing the wrong thing by removing them.

Tang

Attachment: nico_q45_oilpan_distance_to_xmember.jpg (409497 bytes, downloaded 624 times)

The transmission gussets are there to reinforce, not hold the trans. on, there should be no problem taking them off to get to the pan bolts.
Not sure if you know the tops screw up and down on the bottle jacks. A piece of 2x4 laid just behind the work area will "catch" the rolling tools, saves a lot of up and down, off and on the creeper. You're doing well.

I did NOT know that!

In fact, I thought the new bottle jacks were both broken 'cause the box said the jack expanded to sixteen inches but no matter what I did, it only lengthened to about 13 inches or so. I was dissapointed (since my X-member is a good 18 inches above the ground before dropping it).

I was gonna return the two bottle jacks ('jes as soon as I find that receipt somewhere) 'cause I thought they 'was broken.

I'm constantly amazing myself at all the things I still don't know!

Tang

Attachment: nico_q45_oilpan_bottle_jack_failure.jpg (76770 bytes, downloaded 569 times)

Quote, originally posted by squeefoo »

I mentioned the tie rod ends since Wes said it had to stay on the X-member, I originally thought the bolts could be removed and let it hang -as you see now. It depends on whether you can/choose to work around it. It would be easier to remove the 4 bolts holding the rack on and let it hang, it wont hurt anything. The transmission gussets are there to reinforce, not hold the trans. on, there should be no problem taking them off to get to the pan bolts. Not sure if you know the tops screw up and down on the bottle jacks. A piece of 2x4 laid just behind the work area will "catch" the rolling tools, saves a lot of up and down, off and on the creeper. You're doing well.

That is correct.. This is ****perfect**** time to replace your rack bushings.. Go ahead and seperate the rack from the member, and it can dangle there. Its just a tube, couldnt weight much at all, the hoses could hold it up anyway... Personally, if I had to chose, id figure out a way to remove the member from the car, and set it aside... You have enough crap to work around as it is.... Id even say its worht replacing a couple hoses if you have to cut it (just not the expesive Hi Pres hose with the screw on fittings)

You can also just remove your high pressure hose... Im having a hard time visualizing whats keeping the member up... There shouldnt be more than 2 hoses on the rack thats not integral with the rack itself...

Also, T, could you post a photo of the bottom of the oipan, so we can see as many bolts as possible, to see whats keeping it on... I guess focus on the rear......

I can tell your really getting burnt out on this project, but hang in there, were gonna get this done!!! Your Q **will** live!!

Quote »

I can tell you're really getting burnt out on this project, but hang in there ...

You're perceptive. I really do wish I hadn't started this. Dennis was right. It's a big job. (Maybe not for Byron at T3, but certainly for an inexperienced amateur like I am). Anyway, about the only thing still keeping me going is you guys helping me out. It's wierd. I don't want to let you down (and the next poor soul with the same problem). It's kinda' sobering. All my friends are telling me to cut my losses & get rid of this sick bleeding Q ... and wierdly ... you guys are the only ones who really care to bring our beloved Q's back to life.

Quote, originally posted by elwesso »

If I had to chose, I'd figure out a way to remove the member from the car, and set it aside ...

Thats what I came in to tell you. I just made a mistake doing just that.

I had to put the x-member back on just now 'cause there was no way I could spin out those four steering rack bolts with the x-member wobbling around like that.

There are no nuts on top ... just bolts from the bottom ... so we must use a 22mm socket for two of the bolts adding a 6 inch extension for the other two. A wrench at top won't work.

Therefore, my recommendation (for the future) is to loosen and/or remove the four steering rack bolts while the X-member is still on the Q!

I'm gonna' modify what our wise leader once recommended:
- After you support the engine from above ...
... first remove the engine from the x-member ... (4 motor mount nuts)
... then remove the rack from the x-member ... (4 rack bolts)
... lastly, remove the x-member from the car ... (6 x-member nuts)

Quote »

Im having a hard time visualizing whats keeping the member up... There shouldnt be more than 2 hoses on the rack thats not integral with the rack itself...

That's another mistake I made that I don't want (the next) you to make.

I removed the two 10mm bolts holding the driver side set of (what looks like) power-steering hoses to the x-member and the one 10 mm bolt holding a similar hose assembly on the passenger side ... but still the heavy x-member was hung up.

In surveying what was holding the x-member still on the Q, I found a SECOND electrical connector with wires dangerously near the breaking point near the driver side of the rack. It was stretched so tightly, the wires might even be broken by now. What does this sensor do anyway?

My recommendation?
Disconnect TWO electrical connectors before removing the crossmember from the car!

Quote »

Also, T, could you post a photo of the bottom of the oil pan, so we can see as many bolts as possible, to see whats keeping it on...

That's another thing. Removing the crossmember didn't seem to uncover a whole lotta' bolts. Sigh. All the rearward bolts are still obscured. Those two cap-bolt mounted gussets gotta' go. I can tell 'cause I compared the new oil pan 18 bolt holes with the few bolts I can see on the Q.

In the front, I haven't concluded the front engine gusset has to go yet (remember that reluctant alternator) ... but it does seem that one bolt is totally obscured by the gusset and removing the engine crossmember didn't grant me as much room as I had hoped to get at that hidden bolt from the side. (Note that the oil pan is partially crushed in the front gusset direction so this may be an anomoly).

Anyway, I just cleaned out yet another clump of grease grit from the corner of my eye ... and it's time to go back to work ... I'll try to get that underside photo ... but I only have 18 inches of height to get a 22 inch long (oil pan) shot and none have come out well yet.

PLEASE KEEP THE ADVICE COMING AS OTHERS BENEFIT FROM YOUR HELP TOO!

Attachment: nico_q45_oilpan_second_electrical_connector_remove.jpg (81602 bytes, downloaded 652 times)

Quote, originally posted by T »

You're perceptive. I really do wish I hadn't started this. Dennis was right. It's a big job. (Maybe not for Byron at T3, but certainly for an inexperienced amateur like I am). Anyway, about the only thing still keeping me going is you guys helping me out. It's wierd. I don't want to let you down (and the next poor soul with the same problem). It's kinda' sobering. All my friends are telling me to cut my losses & get rid of this sick bleeding Q ... and wierdly ... you guys are the only ones who really care to bring our beloved Q's back to life.

Believe me, you will take SO much pride in driving your beloved Q, knowing you fixed it sucessfully.. Thats why I missed (and still do) my old one so much.. Literally, my blood is on that car, and I put a lot of work into it.!!! Hang in there, and in the words of the cable guy, git r done.....

Good advice about the rack mounts, however this shouldnt have been an issue with the member coming off with the rack still attached...

There was yet a third 10mm bolt to be removed.

This last one was on the driver side holding a splash-plate (or whatever) above the steering rack.

The passenger side steering rack easily dropped free of the x-member.
Once I removed that fourth 10mm bolt, the x-member dropped free of the rack. So, beside the plastic hose brackets (one of which I busted), there are four 10mm bolts and four 22mm bolts mostly holding the rack to the x-member.

Whew! The sad thing is that I still can't get to one oil-pan bolt under the front engine gusset and 8 oil-pan bolts under the two rear transmission gussets. Sigh.

Peeling the onion ... now I know why the local dealership quoted me over a thousand bucks (at $120 an hour) for the job!). They deserve it!

My next task is either to remove the alternator, compressor, and front gusset ... or to tackle the rear transmission gussets. Stay tuned (your advice always welcome.

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[color=red]Let me warn the next poor soul who attempts this task.
That passenger-side rear engine gusset is mighty difficult to remove for two reasons.[/color

The hardest two tasks were removing the second lower bolt from the passenger side rear engine gusset and detangling that dangling passenger-side gusset from the tight space between the engine, the flywheel cover, the starter motor, and the wiring harnesses (inconveniently placed exactly in the worst possible position). I would have left the gusset dangling, but, it was just the wrong size in that I could not remove the flywheel cover plate without removing totally that passenger-side gusset from the car (and that flywheel plate was covering two of the 18 bolts of the oil pan).

As a hint to the next poor soul, I had to use all my new tools to crack those nuts, including the 18 inch breaker bar, impact u-joints, 3 inch impact extension, and, yes, I had to use the 2-inch ID leverage pipe on a 17mm box wrench (up 'till now I used only the 1-inch ID 30 inch long leverage pipe) for that one passenger-side rear engine gusset 17mm bolt that an impact socket would NOT reach (due to the wiring harness connectors). If I could have figured out how to remove those four wiring harness connectors, I would have because they REALLY got in the way on that passenger side rear engine gusset removal procedure!

Whew! For the first time in a while, I feel good about getting somewhere on this task. Quick. Someone please ask the wizard (Dennis) if he'll lend me a few credits toward that associates' degree he bespoke of many a thread ago for folks who attempt to work on their own Q.

At this point, I can see all 18 oil pan bolts!
The worst bolt of all is still that one bolt under the passenger-side front corner of the oil pan - you know - the bolt hidden under the front engine gusset. Looking closely, I might be able to access that one extremely difficult bolt from the rear, sliding some kind of a wrench horizontally from the rear of the engine toward the front, in between the very tight space between the front engine gusset and the oil pan itself. There is a really good chance that even if I did get to that bolt from the side, there may not be enough room to move the wrench more than a few degrees.

Since that is the toughest bolt, I may as well start with it when I resume this task in day light.

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If so, which one?
I saw in the parts store a red one and a blue one.

I asked the parts guy and he scratched his beard and muttered he'd use the red one 'cause it was "better" ... but I'd rather ask NICO.

Note: I didn't see anything in the FSM about this topic so be gentle with me if this is a really stooopid question.

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