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craigztoyz

Offline
714 posts
90 300ZX VH45 95 J30 90 rx7 lots of cars older then me.
Austin TX
1-18-2008
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| « Re: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and so ... (npez) | 7:12 PM 7/20/2008 |
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Sounds sweet, On the sway bar, I am going with a rear mount, and matching up, what will fit, and what has the right diameter/torsion.Sounds good, let me know whats up. If you arent going to use the pan/ let me know, Thanx, Craig
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and so ... (craigztoyz) | 7:23 PM 7/20/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz » | Sounds sweet, On the sway bar, I am going with a rear mount, and matching up, what will fit, and what has the right diameter/torsion.Sounds good, let me know whats up. If you arent going to use the pan/ let me know, Thanx, Craig |
I'm going with a NASCAR style hollow bar (49 spline)/arms and SPL endlinks to correct geometry issues. The problem you will run into (if you haven't already) is that knowing the diameter is not enough. You need to understand the sway bar rate (a part of it being torsion as you mentioned) which is a function of a lot of different things (arm length, wall thickness of the bar, preload, etc.) At this juncture I know it's 27mm (on the TT), but things such as wall thickness and effective sway bar rate on the stock bar are unknowns and not really published anywhere that I've seen so far.On the pan, I'm not going to use it at the moment (it'll go in my parts bin) but will keep it in reserve in case I need to go rear-sump. Let me know if you find anything out on the swaybar and I'll do the same. Thanks, Nick.
1993 300ZX Twin-Turbo soon to be 450ZX Twin-Turbo (Oxford Gray) 2002 BMW M3 (Imola Red) 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Hey the kids have to ride somewhere!)
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craigztoyz

Offline
714 posts
90 300ZX VH45 95 J30 90 rx7 lots of cars older then me.
Austin TX
1-18-2008
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| « Re: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and so ... (npez) | 7:31 PM 7/20/2008 |
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On the sway bar, I have 3 that fit the space, and size, and am going to see how they 'feel' later this week.
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and so ... (craigztoyz) | 7:53 PM 7/20/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz » | | On the sway bar, I have 3 that fit the space, and size, and am going to see how they 'feel' later this week. |
Cool! looking forward to your findings....Thanks, Nick.
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Sway bar rate | 12:18 AM 7/21/2008 |
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Based on my calculations and assuming a wall thickness of .095 inches, the sway bar rate on the factory sway bar is ~245 lb/in. If anyone has the actual wall thickness and can provide it that would be great as I made a spreadsheet that will recalculate the sway bar rate.Craig, if you're planning on shortenting the arms from ~14 inches currently to something that'll work (e.g. 9-10 inches), as there are clearance issues to contend with, there is no hollow bar of this diameter that will work. To give you an example the stock bar with 10 inch arms gives you a 519 lb/in rate (this will most likely bend your end-links or worse). What will work is a 3/4 solid bar which will give you ~240 lb/in rate under the same scenario indicated above. Just thought I'd pass this on. Thanks, Nick.
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Chrispy300

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279 posts
1993 J-Spec 300ZX 5 Speed Slicktop
Brisbane QLD, AUS
1-28-2008
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| « Re: Sway bar rate (npez) | 3:45 AM 7/21/2008 |
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Just use a thinner solid bar. My Whiteline (massive manufacturer of suspension gear downunder) swaybars are solid, so are Stillens... Just go a bit thinner and drill a few holes in the end to give some adjustment.
450ZX In The Works Cheers, Chris
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: Sway bar rate (Chrispy300) | 9:08 AM 7/21/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by Chrispy300 » | | Just use a thinner solid bar. My Whiteline (massive manufacturer of suspension gear downunder) swaybars are solid, so are Stillens... Just go a bit thinner and drill a few holes in the end to give some adjustment. |
Chrispy, that's what I'm planning on doing, I just wanted to let Craig know as he had some hollow bars of the same diameter that he was saying would probably fit, so I wanted to make him aware of the severe swaybar rate change so nothing gets damaged on his car.Thanks, Nick.
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craigztoyz

Offline
714 posts
90 300ZX VH45 95 J30 90 rx7 lots of cars older then me.
Austin TX
1-18-2008
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| « Re: Sway bar rate (npez) | 9:53 AM 7/21/2008 |
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Thank you.Later this week after a few 'break in miles' (breaking the tires loose is more like it) I plan to get it up, and start off with the SHO bars, solid's I have a 23mm, 24mm, 26mm, 28mm, all fit the space under back of eng, and are mountable to the frame, and endlinks, If none of them are useable, then I have 4 others from numerous cars to try. But I think that one of the SHO(Tauras SHO's FWD 90-95) ones will work well. Of course I am starting with the 23, although it should be too weak, not enough roll control. Building a street driver, not a racecar, so My 'Frankenstein' methods are ok by me.
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: Sway bar rate (craigztoyz) | 11:17 AM 7/21/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz » | | Thank you. Later this week after a few 'break in miles' (breaking the tires loose is more like it) I plan to get it up, and start off with the SHO bars, solid's I have a 23mm, 24mm, 26mm, 28mm, all fit the space under back of eng, and are mountable to the frame, and endlinks, If none of them are useable, then I have 4 others from numerous cars to try. But I think that one of the SHO(Tauras SHO's FWD 90-95) ones will work well. Of course I am starting with the 23, although it should be too weak, not enough roll control. Building a street driver, not a racecar, so My 'Frankenstein' methods are ok by me. |
Craig,That's cool. I did some more math as I took the factory pressed flat section where the endlinks bolt onto and measured the thickness of it and divided it by 2. This should give the wall thickness of the bar which according to that is .16 instead of my assumption of .095 and a rate of ~292 lb/in. So with that in mind the hollow bar will work at 1 inch diameter, same length as the stocker, and 10 inch arms. At 9 inch arms it'll be about 30% stiffer - similar to what the stillen stock replacement is. Just some more info for you. Thanks, Nick.
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craigztoyz

Offline
714 posts
90 300ZX VH45 95 J30 90 rx7 lots of cars older then me.
Austin TX
1-18-2008
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| « Re: Sway bar rate (npez) | 1:19 PM 7/22/2008 |
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Thanx Nick, I checked, yeah these are hollow, a few I have a solid, but when the time comes, I will build that part. they are paving my street this week, so having ot move my cars around, and planning to pull engine out again, so change to another pan, larger volume. Thanx again, craig
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Finally making some visible progress | 5:02 PM 8/13/2008 |
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I got a call today that my first 3 batches of parts were done! So I went down and picked them up and have posted some pics below. I can finally start putting my engine together again. I am expecting another batch of parts from High Performance Coatings so I'll post those pics when I get them in. All the parts getting coated or plated are finally all submitted to the respective parties and should be done within 2 weeks.I can honestly say that if you're looking at plating Atlas Plating here in Houston has done an outstanding job thus far with my stuff (the pictures don't really provide the full effect). Each piece was first fully polished then chromed, then polished again for a mirror shine. They did the same with each individual fastener - you can actually see it in the washers/lock washers that are a single assembly with the bolt - each piece is like a mirror. So here are some pics; I hope you enjoy them.... Thanks, Nick. Fuel Rails / Pressure Regulator/Damper / Injector Caps/Bolts and Hardware
 Coolant Pipes / T-stat housing / Fittings / Bolts and Hardware
 Closeup of T-stat housing
 Lower Intake Runners / Bolts & Hardware

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kbflip02

Offline
816 posts
1994 Infiniti J30
Sugar Land TX
11-12-2007
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| « Re: Finally making some visible progress (npez) | 6:55 PM 8/13/2008 |
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everything looks so shiny and purdy
-Keith
 1994 Infiniti J30 Snow White(not pearl)paint-Jim Wolf Popcharger-Jim Wolf S1 Cams-Jim Wolf ECU-ASP Underdrive pulley-HI Waterpump pulley-5000 CFM electric fan-Upgraded alternator-Optima Yellowtop 850CCA-Aeromotive Tsunami Fuel Pump-370cc injectors-160° thermostat-JVC headunit-2 10in Alpine Type Rs-Alpine VPower 1000w monoblock amp-18in Raiz Rims-245/40 tires-Garmin 800 Nuvi
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Carl H
Bio-less Moderator

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4826 posts
1995 240SX SE RB20DET Powered!, 1995 Jaguar XJR...needs paint.
Charlotte NC
8-4-2003
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aaaaaahhhh! its too bring bring! mah eaaaayes.
SHift_BOOM. Damnit. Doing an RB2X swap and scared of the wiring? Check out my thread in the RB section. Now offering VH and SR/KA/CA conversions!
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: Finally making some visible progress (kbflip02) | 7:33 PM 8/13/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by kbflip02 » | everything looks so shiny and purdy |
I'm thinking the engine is good for another 20-30HP with all that shine who needs turbos
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Mettler
VH Moderator

Offline
1362 posts
HR31 GTS-8 coupe, VH41/45 Hybrid Transplant
Hamilton
1-15-2006
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Hahaha, you guys are obsessed with shiny chrome :pLookin good tho! I couldn't afford to throw money at the looks, will prob just get covers and manifold powder coated and leave it at that lol... Very nice though man, you going for the show quality look?
Nissan VH V8 > your preferred engine.
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: (Mettler) | 8:35 PM 8/13/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by Mettler » | | Lookin good tho! I couldn't afford to throw money at the looks, will prob just get covers and manifold powder coated and leave it at that lol... Very nice though man, you going for the show quality look? |
You know originally I wasn't planning on "blingin" it, but I decided to sell my M3 and do a little more on this project. Before I was sprinkling money across both cars, now I can focus my efforts and money on just one. I also don't think, judging by Craig's videos, that phase 2B (~650RWHP) will be happening before I address many other issues (i.e. Looking at purchasing a Racelogic Traction Control system now versus later, LSD will need replacement as my understanding is that the car goes squirly past 500RWHP on the stock one, etc.) I think I'll be happy with 8-10psig and about 500RWHP to the wheels for now, and tacking on the traction control will make it much more driveable.As far as a show quality look, yes I want it to be clean and shiny with low maintenance. I may take it to some of the local shows but I'm not really going for trophys. Most of this stuff is for a show of one (me). Thanks, Nick.
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qsiguy

Offline
1879 posts
1994 Infiniti Q45 Turbo
Phoenix AZ
3-20-2005
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| « Re: (npez) | 10:09 PM 8/13/2008 |
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Wow, this project is going to be top notch. I actually got a little emotional looking at those pics. I love the way parts look after getting fab'd cleaned up and painted, powder coated, chromed, etc. It's very satisfying.All I sprang for when I had my motor apart was a few cans of brake cleaner to spray off the crap. Can't hardy see the motor with it back together anyway.
 1994 Infiniti Q45 Turbo
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: (qsiguy) | 11:03 PM 8/13/2008 |
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Thanks Shane. I went through several cans of carb/brake cleaner myself . This last round of parts was a doozie 22 batches. It's a total of ~225 pieces including 200+ fasteners and ~25 brackets, and other pieces. and that's just the chrome & polishing. Then another 14 or so parts getting powdercoated. The crank pulley, VTC solenoids, and some other sensitive pieces, I'm having painted to match the powdercoat color as based on everyone's feedback I decided it be a bad idea to "cook" them. I sure hope it all looks as good as I think it will after I put it back together again.I'm starting to get anxious now for all the parts to get done and/or arrive (I bought all new goods from infiniti to piece the top end together anything questionable was replaced (so I got new gaskets/seals/grommets/o-rings, knock sensors, ECT sensors for ECM & gauges, PCV valve, exhaust manifold gaskets, etc.) In the meantime I'm going to go and read up on Racelogics' traction control system as I think one of those is in my near future I'll probably be contacting you (if it's ok with you) to chat when it's time to do the engine management stuff as I have the goods (Ostrich2 getting ready to buy Nistune), I just lack the complete knowledge to tune this thing Thanks, Nick.
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SuperHatch

Offline
872 posts
07 Tundra, VH Powered S14, VH Powered 92 Slicktop Z32, 92 Q45 Beater
Manahawkin NJ
11-17-2006
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| « Re: (npez) | 4:37 AM 8/14/2008 |
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Wow Nick, those parts look fantastic! I can't wait to see this thing come together...
- Stephen http://www.godspeed-racing.com
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craigztoyz

Offline
714 posts
90 300ZX VH45 95 J30 90 rx7 lots of cars older then me.
Austin TX
1-18-2008
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| « Re: (npez) | 1:31 PM 8/14/2008 |
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Nick,Lookin good! Shocked you are throwing the bling on, But can understand why. I cant afford those ammenities, I just did the old fashioned elbow grease method, then on new motor, decided to go stock look, no shine. Let me know when you have it together, we can go play. Craig
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Some more parts came in today | 5:11 PM 8/14/2008 |
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It was like Christmas time today. I received my oil filter sandwitch, new bearings for my idler pulleys (had to press them out to get the pulleys coated), heim joints to mount the turbos, and more importantly my batch from High Performance Coatings. I took some pictures of the coated parts again. Craig you can see on the pan the 45 degree angle I was talking to you about on the phone to clear a factory oil pickup & support bracket. Not sure on the valve covers coating - they came out a little more mat than the satin that I expected. I'll see them on the engine and either go with them or they'll go out for powdercoat.Thanks, Nick. Oilpan with HPC S02 oil-shedding dry film coating
 Valve Cover HiperCoat 1300 degree Coating (I only took a picture of 1 as they're packed pretty well)
 A couple of pictures of the turbo housings (hot side) - HiperCoat Extreme 2000 degree stable coating
 
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tmorgan4
Offline
796 posts
2000 Pathfinder
Fort Collins Co
12-24-2006
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| « Re: Some more parts came in today (npez) | 6:46 PM 8/14/2008 |
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Nice stuff!!
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craigztoyz

Offline
714 posts
90 300ZX VH45 95 J30 90 rx7 lots of cars older then me.
Austin TX
1-18-2008
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| « Re: Some more parts came in today (npez) | 9:47 PM 8/14/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by npez » | | It was like Christmas time today. I received my oil filter sandwitch, new bearings for my idler pulleys (had to press them out to get the pulleys coated), heim joints to mount the turbos, and more importantly my batch from High Performance Coatings. I took some pictures of the coated parts again. Craig you can see on the pan the 45 degree angle I was talking to you about on the phone to clear a factory oil pickup & support bracket. Not sure on the valve covers coating - they came out a little more mat than the satin that I expected. I'll see them on the engine and either go with them or they'll go out for powdercoat. Thanks, Nick. Oilpan with HPC S02 oil-shedding dry film coating
 Valve Cover HiperCoat 1300 degree Coating (I only took a picture of 1 as they're packed pretty well)
 A couple of pictures of the turbo housings (hot side) - HiperCoat Extreme 2000 degree stable coating
 
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Nick, rather then the 45, I just made a entire step that rests atop the crossmember, allowing mor oil capacity. both ways help it flow down. I like tha oil shedding. I guess its like teflon? nice stuff, hope it keeps the temps down. craig
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: Some more parts came in today (craigztoyz) | 10:00 PM 8/14/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz » | Nick, rather then the 45, I just made a entire step that rests atop the crossmember, allowing mor oil capacity. both ways help it flow down. I like tha oil shedding. I guess its like teflon? nice stuff, hope it keeps the temps down. craig |
Craig,That's cool - I guess both ways accomplish the end result for us front-sumpers. Yes the oil shedding coat is like teflon but does not retain heat inside the pan like teflon does - S02 allows it to radiate out while still having all the oil shedding benefits. Ditto on the temps, I hope the coatings on the turbos will do as advertised and reduce the skin temp by 50% (900*F versus 1700-1800*F is always preferred). If it's good enough for Nascar, IRL and aerospace, I suppose it should be good enough for what I'm trying to do  Time will tell and I'll report back after I get some time with everything installed and running. Thanks, Nick.
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craigztoyz

Offline
714 posts
90 300ZX VH45 95 J30 90 rx7 lots of cars older then me.
Austin TX
1-18-2008
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| « Re: Some more parts came in today (npez) | 2:00 PM 8/15/2008 |
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On the front sump, It works GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!Just have to have enough oil, and a good way to get it down to the front. With the slick on it, it should fly down very well. I cant wait to see it boosted. Your gonna love it N/A, but now that I have raped mine up a few times, I wonder what it'd be like, ........... Hummmm
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qsiguy

Offline
1879 posts
1994 Infiniti Q45 Turbo
Phoenix AZ
3-20-2005
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Whenever you are ready, I'll help you out with the ECU. The only hard part is swapping out the OEM chip with the socket. Desoldering the OEM chip is a pain. Don't rush it and just keep sucking out the old solder. Actually, first thing to do is get off the lacquer coating. My preferred method is brake cleaner. Just hold the ECU with the top/bottom off it and hold it so that when you spray it the fluid will run off the ECU easily. Spray both sides around the chip generously and the lacquer will come right off. As soon as i'm done I blow it out good with my air compressor.If you aren't really good with a soldering iron and would rather let someone else do it I'd be happy to assist. Send it over and I'll get it modded for you like I did mine. No problemo. Can't help you with Nistune as all I've seen are screenshots but I can show you the maps I've come up with so far.
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: (qsiguy) | 10:59 AM 8/16/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by qsiguy » | | Whenever you are ready, I'll help you out with the ECU. The only hard part is swapping out the OEM chip with the socket. Desoldering the OEM chip is a pain. Don't rush it and just keep sucking out the old solder. Actually, first thing to do is get off the lacquer coating. My preferred method is brake cleaner. Just hold the ECU with the top/bottom off it and hold it so that when you spray it the fluid will run off the ECU easily. Spray both sides around the chip generously and the lacquer will come right off. As soon as i'm done I blow it out good with my air compressor. If you aren't really good with a soldering iron and would rather let someone else do it I'd be happy to assist. Send it over and I'll get it modded for you like I did mine. No problemo. Can't help you with Nistune as all I've seen are screenshots but I can show you the maps I've come up with so far. |
Shane,Fantastic - thanks a bunch in advance for the assist and the advice. I can't weld but I'm pretty mean with a soldering iron I know what you mean with soldered chip sockets they're sometimes a bear to get out - I've got a tool that sucks the solder out that I'm planning to use to clean them up pretty good. I'm looking forward to working with you to better understand the engine management side of this. I agree with you that regardless of tuning tool used the fundamentals will be the same or very similar. My new oil pickup tube didn't arrive yesterday (it'll be here Monday) so as I cannot put the pan on without it, I sat down last night and read maximum boost by Corky Bell cover to cover; it was a good read highly recommended. A good portion of the stuff I already knew, some stuff I skipped over (like blow-through carburation setups, etc.) but he had many nuggets in there that were of great value. After reading it I saw the way I had my turbos positioned originally will not be optimal, so I was up until 4:30AM looking at different scenarios to see what will work the best. At that time I gave up and decided that I would look at it again today with a clear mind. Anyway, I'll let you know as soon as I'm at the engine management stage. My plan is to get the car started on the factory unmodified ECU, then socket/romulate, put a factory tune on it and make sure it still starts/runs. I will then pull the upper plenum, drop-in the nismo 555cc (615cc) injectors and use Nistune to indicate the injector change (it automatically changes the values in the tune to correspond to the new injectors) and start/run again with the new injectors. At that juncture we'll be able to do a tune for the normally aspirated setup so I can enjoy the car as I work out the turbo installation. Let me know if this sounds like a reasonable approach to you. Thanks, Nick.
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Turbo Positioning Update | 10:12 PM 8/16/2008 |
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After many mockups today I believe I've found the most optimal way for the turbos to be oriented in the front to accomodate for all the plumbing, wastegates, etc. Unfortunately the stock SMICs will need to go and be replaced with a 2-inlet/1 outlet custom front-mount intercooler. I've seen some ICs that use the low-side of the A/C system so I'll be looking into those as well in the spirit of efficiency and heat-soak prevention. But for now I'm looking at an air/air unit. I will be contacting bell intercoolers to see what we can work up, if anyone has any other suggestions for intercooler places I'd love to hear them.The plumbing from the motor to the turbos and from the turbos to the factory exhaust will run underneath the crossmember using oval pipe that is solid mounted with the addition of an insulator in the mounts. There will be stainless steel flex-pipes from the manifold to the pipes feeding the turbos, as well as the connection from the solid mount returns to the catalytic converters. The flex-pipes should allow engine movement without affecting the solid mounted pipes and turbos. I am also going to have some aluminum heatshields fabbed that will go around the turbine housing of the turbos - additional insurance on top of the coatings. Let me know if you see anything that you don't believe will work (the only thing that concerns me is heat and the probability of the solid mounts shearing bolts with the thermal expansion of stainless steel) as when you're this close to something for a couple of days one tends to lose the forest from the trees. Thanks, Nick. LH Turbo (the horn will be relocated )
 RH Turbo
 Turbo as seen from the front opening

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tmorgan4
Offline
796 posts
2000 Pathfinder
Fort Collins Co
12-24-2006
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| « Re: Turbo Positioning Update (npez) | 3:30 AM 8/17/2008 |
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All the work looks great so far. The only part I read that I may throw a little of my input into is your plan to run on a stock ECU with stock injectors and then switch to the Nismo 555s and Nistune one it's up and running. If you've got the time and will to do it this way it can be done, but it seems like an almost unnecessary step to "make sure it starts" with the stock 370s and stock ECU. As long as everything is assembled the way it's supposed to be there isn't any reason I'd ever even put the 370s back in. Make sure your timing is set up correctly when you install the chains and there's shouldn't be any reason it won't start (other than electrical or wiring issues). If it were my car, I'd go ahead and put the 555s in and save yourself some work. Be VERY careful with the O-rings on these sidefeed injectors as they are notorious for getting damaged. I've got a leaking O-ring on mine as we speak. A friend of mine just had an O-ring on his injectors in an STi go out randomly and it was never even pulled from the fuel rail.
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npez

Offline
404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: Turbo Positioning Update (tmorgan4) | 9:45 AM 8/17/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by tmorgan4 » | | All the work looks great so far. The only part I read that I may throw a little of my input into is your plan to run on a stock ECU with stock injectors and then switch to the Nismo 555s and Nistune one it's up and running. If you've got the time and will to do it this way it can be done, but it seems like an almost unnecessary step to "make sure it starts" with the stock 370s and stock ECU. As long as everything is assembled the way it's supposed to be there isn't any reason I'd ever even put the 370s back in. Make sure your timing is set up correctly when you install the chains and there's shouldn't be any reason it won't start (other than electrical or wiring issues). If it were my car, I'd go ahead and put the 555s in and save yourself some work. Be VERY careful with the O-rings on these sidefeed injectors as they are notorious for getting damaged. I've got a leaking O-ring on mine as we speak. A friend of mine just had an O-ring on his injectors in an STi go out randomly and it was never even pulled from the fuel rail.
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Tyler,Thanks for your feedback. The reason I was looking at the 2-step was because I thought the car would run rich if the ECU believed we still had the 370s in there when in reality we had 555s (615cc). I suppose I can do the ECU tweak and change the K value, injector latency, etc. and do all this in one step as you recommend; it would definetely save some time. Let me look into it and I'll work with Shane to get a good bin (adapted for 555s) that I can load on the Ostriched ECU when I get to that step of the build. Thanks again, Nick.
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riu
Offline
73 posts
94 300zx 2+2
Redwood city CA
6-3-2006
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| « Re: Turbo Positioning Update (npez) | 9:43 PM 8/28/2008 |
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i'm sorry but that looks like a terrible place to mount the turbo, the first driveway you see and you're going to smash that thing. i dont' trust mounting anything lower than the lower radiator support.you think you could possibly mount it right under or next to your intake? that way it sits a good 6+ inches higher than the smic mounting points. and then take out the extraneous snorkel intake tubes for the stock airbox and run your piping through their? your project is in too good of shape to just risk putting the turbo there

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qsiguy

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1879 posts
1994 Infiniti Q45 Turbo
Phoenix AZ
3-20-2005
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I agree on the injectors. It's too much work to take off that plenum once you get this beauty together. Shouldn't be difficult at all to just take a stock bin and change the K value and latency. I haven't messed with the latency but I have the K value and it's simple. I'll have to look around to find it but I seem to remember coming across a simple program to help you calculate the desired K value.
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npez

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404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: Turbo Positioning Update (riu) | 11:27 PM 8/28/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by riu » | | i'm sorry but that looks like a terrible place to mount the turbo, the first driveway you see and you're going to smash that thing. i dont' trust mounting anything lower than the lower radiator support. you think you could possibly mount it right under or next to your intake? that way it sits a good 6+ inches higher than the smic mounting points. and then take out the extraneous snorkel intake tubes for the stock airbox and run your piping through their? your project is in too good of shape to just risk putting the turbo there |
Roger,Thanks for the feedback. I have investigated different positions for the turbos but when mounted higher, the exhaust plumbing ends up with too many bends (not good for spool nor heat management). The exhaust plumbing is underneath the turbos with relatively straight shots from the exhaust manifold when they're mounted lower as pictured. I'll take a look again and see if there's anyway to do them higher but FYI the airbox, IC plumbing, etc. are all gone and will not be used. The setup will go to a custom front-mount IC, unless I can figure out a better way to fit them where the airbox used to be and maintain some sanity with the exhaust plumbing. With my setup I have to fit 2 Y pipes to accomodate the external wastegates as well, which further complicates the exhaust side plumbing. I'll post some pics if I come up with something better than the current scenario. Thanks again, Nick.
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npez

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404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: (qsiguy) | 11:35 PM 8/28/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by qsiguy » | | I agree on the injectors. It's too much work to take off that plenum once you get this beauty together. Shouldn't be difficult at all to just take a stock bin and change the K value and latency. I haven't messed with the latency but I have the K value and it's simple. I'll have to look around to find it but I seem to remember coming across a simple program to help you calculate the desired K value. |
Hi Shane,Thanks for the feedback and assist. I ordered the Nistune software earlier this week and received the registration key from Matt at Nistune while I was in California this week (I actually just got home). I will call the folks that have my coated/plated parts and make sure they're ready so I can pick them up tomorrow, and will then proceed to do the ECU modification, so it can be socketed (I have a 5-day weekend ahead of me but will spend part of Saturday helping Jerry with his harness modification). My understanding is that we can load the stock program in Nistune and then use the software to state that the injector size has changed and it goes in and changes everything automatically. When I get to that point, I'll e-mail you a screenshot of what it says so we can do a sanity check on how this works. If it works like it states it does, we may be ok. I'll let you know as soon as I'm there (hopefully in the next 2-3 days) Thanks again, Nick.
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qsiguy

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1879 posts
1994 Infiniti Q45 Turbo
Phoenix AZ
3-20-2005
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Sounds like a plan. I'm looking forward to seeing how well Nistune works for you. The stock K value is 198 with 370 injectors. Going to 555's I believe you would change it to 132. Not sure of the other values yet.Not sure how your dual MAF setup will need to be setup. For mine I had to expand the TP scales because stock only went up to 72 and I'm hitting TP's up to around 100. I expanded mine up to 128. With the dual maf's your's may not go that high since it's only reading half the air flow. Stock may be ok. You should know more once you do a map trace and see where the TP is.
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npez

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404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: (qsiguy) | 4:50 PM 8/30/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by qsiguy » | | Sounds like a plan. I'm looking forward to seeing how well Nistune works for you. The stock K value is 198 with 370 injectors. Going to 555's I believe you would change it to 132. Not sure of the other values yet. Not sure how your dual MAF setup will need to be setup. For mine I had to expand the TP scales because stock only went up to 72 and I'm hitting TP's up to around 100. I expanded mine up to 128. With the dual maf's your's may not go that high since it's only reading half the air flow. Stock may be ok. You should know more once you do a map trace and see where the TP is. |
Cool - thanks Shane. My coated/plated parts weren't completed as expected on Friday, so I'm looking at getting everything back next week. I looked around and think on the MAF I'll be buying the 3.5" Diameter Pro-Tube (http://www.promracing.com/products.htm) from pro-M racing. It's specifically a blow-through design MAF and my understanding is that it can handle practically anything we can throw at it.On the 132 K value - is that based on 555cc flow rate? I ask because Nismo calls them 555s but they actually flow 615cc. I downloaded everything from Nistune, so I'll spend some time installing the software and then start the work on the socketing. With hurricane Gustav on the horizon, I may have some delays in working on this, as I have family coming in from East Texas that has a mandatory evacuation in effect. Anyway, there are still delays on my bringing my car in for the manifolds so I got fed up and went out this morning and bought a Miller MIG welder and all the accessories, and I will start working on this myself. The only thing that was slowing me down with this project is my ability to weld well. This move will force me to sit down and learn it well by doing it. I was surprised at how expensive the 122CF tank was for the argon/co2 mix though. I will start working with this setup for the crossmember seam weld, and brackets, etc. and then will get a tank of tri-mix so I can start work on the stainless steel. This approach will probably cost as much as getting everything professionaly done, but at the end of the day I will end up with more tools I can use in the future, and the satisfaction of having done the work myself! Thanks again and I'll let you know as soon as the electronics are ready to go. Nick.
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SuperHatch

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872 posts
07 Tundra, VH Powered S14, VH Powered 92 Slicktop Z32, 92 Q45 Beater
Manahawkin NJ
11-17-2006
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| « Re: (npez) | 5:21 PM 8/30/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by npez » | | This approach will probably cost as much as getting everything professionaly done, but at the end of the day I will end up with more tools I can use in the future, and the satisfaction of having done the work myself! Nick. |
Amen Brotha!!
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tmorgan4
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796 posts
2000 Pathfinder
Fort Collins Co
12-24-2006
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| « Re: (npez) | 5:32 PM 8/30/2008 |
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Good decision on picking up a welder. Worst case you can get everything tacked up and assembled the way you want it and bring it somewhere to have them finished if it comes down to it. I forgot that you need to have another tank to weld stainless with a MIG! Are you planning on picking up another bottle or just exchanging the one you've got? Would be nice to have one of each on hand.Which welder did you get? I think you'll pick it up quickly.
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npez

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404 posts
1993 Nissan 300ZX Turbo (soon 2B twin-turbo 450ZX) 2002 BMW M3 2008 Honda Odyssey Touring (Mama)
Houston TX
8-30-2007
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| « Re: (tmorgan4) | 5:55 PM 8/30/2008 |
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| Quote, originally posted by tmorgan4 » | | Good decision on picking up a welder. Worst case you can get everything tacked up and assembled the way you want it and bring it somewhere to have them finished if it comes down to it. I forgot that you need to have another tank to weld stainless with a MIG! Are you planning on picking up another bottle or just exchanging the one you've got? Would be nice to have one of each on hand. Which welder did you get? I think you'll pick it up quickly. |
Thanks Tyler & Steve. I picked up the Millermatic 140 with autoset. I think it'll serve me pretty well for the fabrication I will need to do and seemed like the simplest to setup and get going. On the tank they offered to do it either way exchange or discount a 2nd tank. I'm leaning towards just buying another 122CF one and calling it a day With my luck in the middle of doing stainless I would then need to do something with mild steel and not have the gas. They told me to steer away from flux core wire unless I want to be cleaning up after the fact (which I don't) or welding outside (which I'm not) so I'm sticking with gas shielding.Anyway, I didn't buy the stainless wire yet as I'm still trying to decide between 304 and 321 stainless. I know the latter is better against heat and cracking, but I didn't wan't to overkill if the 304 will work well (Corky Bell's book mentions 304 as a good option for turbo manifold construction). Also, I didn't know with the additional chromium content in the 321 if that would make it much harder to weld or not. Thanks, Nick.
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Carl H
Bio-less Moderator

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4826 posts
1995 240SX SE RB20DET Powered!, 1995 Jaguar XJR...needs paint.
Charlotte NC
8-4-2003
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a welder along with a sawzall is one of the most important purchases you'll ever make...i finally figured out mine and laid down some AWESOME beads. too bad i didnt figure it out before, oh well. As far as tanks go if you plan on doing fabwork alot then having a tank of ar/co2 is a must (atleast 40lb tank), a dedicated tank of ar for al and depending on how much ss you do you can squeek by with the ar tank...but if you're doing alot then definately look into a dedicated tank for that. word of advice tho, dont buy welding supplies from home depot or northern tools...go to a dedicated supply shop for industral purposes prices are ALOT less and they're pros at the game.
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