Nick.

I decided to sit the engine in the car today as craigztoyz has been held up with some other stuff. I bolted the transmission and trans-mount, lowered the sway bar, centered the motor to the engine bay and leveled it. Looking at it, it would seem to me that offset motor mounts may be more practical than modifying the crossmember. The pedestal only seems to be about an inch off.

Quick question - should the motor be completely level or is it customary to have a few degrees tilt toward the sump?

ok - back to the space issue. Looking at the space it is unbelievably tight. Just a quick glance at the top, it would appear that high-mount turbos behind the headlight are not do-able (at least with my turbos, and if I want the hood to close). Low mount in the rear by the downpipes may have been an option, but the steering rack precludes this location as well. So all that's left is to mount them in the nose (where the airbox typically is), or with some mods mount then where the OEM intercoolers were and go with an FMIC.

For the nose, I think I can have a bracket made to bolt the turbos to the lower member in front of the radiator and condender. Then do a Doolz like setup for the intake and mount 1 real MAF and a dummy MAF. For exhaust plumbing I can run the pipes on the sides of the radiator (there's about 3-1/2" on each side (I only need 2" for the inlet side and 2.5" for the exhaust side of the turbo) where the intake plumbing ran before and use flex pipe to allow the motor to move (torque) independently of the turbos that will be fixed to the body of the car. If I clock the compressor side of the turbo I should be able to run the plubling to the OEM intercoolers and have the plumbing utilize existing intercooler plumbing openings.

The only thing that concerns me is *heat*. Do you think if I use a turbo beenie bag or coat the turbine side of the turbo to drop the temps by 50%, that the heat will be manageable? Should I have concerns over cooling system efficiency or A/C efficiency for that mater (the condenser is right there as well)? Being there will be air coming in through the "mouth" on the bumper, will this have any noticable effect on cooling the turbos and/or helping with heat dissipation?

I know drag cars have this kind of setup, but my car will be a GT street car - while they only worry about a 1/4 mile, I need to worry about a 100 mile drive if I choose to go for a long drive. Does anyone have any experience and/or knowledge with this type of setup?

Also one last question - I don't have a Q45 MAF - I do have my TT MAF; does anyone see any challenges to using the TT MAF instead of the q45 one? I know it's about 72mm (actually about 3" across) compared to the 90mm Q45 one, but I'll be using it initially on its own, but shortly after I make sure my engine is running, it will be part of a doolz type setup. My understanding is that the TT MAF is good to about 550WHP. I believe with some minor rewiring the electronics should be pretty similar.

Your feedback as always is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Nick.

P.S. I'll take some pictures tomorrow and post them so you can get a visual of what I see.


Modified by npez at 11:55 PM 6/1/2008

Thanks for the feedback. That's essentially what I did (mounted the trans/transmount and that helped with front/back alignment; for side/side I centered it to the engine bay. As I'm not working with the oil pan on (craigztoyz has mine; I've added a wood board across the cross-member to sit the engine) so I am doing measurements from the oilpan flange.

The level I mentioned is because I had read somewhere that some engines have a few degree angle towards the sump (so on a stock VH it would tilt just a few degrees from back->front). But I'm not sure if that applies to the VH motor.

I agree with the oil filter - there's only about 3/8" on that side and another 3/8" on the alternator side. Also the A/C fitting receptacles on the compressor barely clear the front crossmember, but I think that'll be ok as I will be having custom lines made.

Thanks again.

Nick.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes I saw the option in the Nistune manual - IIRC it seems it's as simple as a drop box (I think they had the Mustang Cobra one in the example) and the rest is done by the program - that's pretty fantastic.....

Thanks,
Nick.

Thanks for the feedback - it (as well as Ostrich2) has become a "father's day suggestion" to my wife.....

Thanks again,
Nick.

This setup would require the removal (or relocation) of the carbon canister - are there any challenges with doing this (removal versus relocation) from an emissions perspective? Also if the turbos are higher than the drains on the pan, I shouldn't need a scavenging pump - is my thinking correct?

Please advise and thanks.

Nick.

P.S. Also notice the plastic under-fender liners on the exhaust side of the turbo - they're not melted
P.S.S. And for some of you that may notice this the car is twin-turbo *and* supercharged (check out the pulley on top). It's dyno'd at 1300rwtq and over 1200rwhp! This is something new turbonetics and a tuner are working on.

Modified by npez at 7:15 PM 6/2/2008

I'll post some pics here now and you can see the height.

Thanks again,
Nick.

Top View - Engine in the car (yes that is a seatbelt my engine leveler chains weren't long enough)

Top View RH Side Clearances

Top View LH Side Clearances

Top View Engine Front RH

Top View Engine Front Middle and LH

Underside RH Side

Underside A/C Compressor Closeup - the lines will be very close to the front of the crossmember

Underside LH Side (P/S Pump not installed)

Underside - Trans-end LH Side

Underside - Trans-end RH Side

Very Temporary Test of sidemount turbo position

Temporary Test of sidemount turbo position - the tab on the 8 o clock it where the plastic under fender liner fastens - the turbo will clear.

Another view - the air inlet of the turbo is flush with the bumper support flange. I think a 90 degree elbow will allow the air filer to sit behind the bumper in the area where the oem airbox used to be.

That's all I've got. If anyone has an answer on the carbon canister removal, this will help in deciding if this location will be a go or no-go. Any suggestions you may have are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Nick.

Thanks for the pics of the a/c! I was wondering if it would fit and now I'm relieved that once I get my cooling issues solved I can kick back on long highway drives in some nice cold frothy air!!!

I'd be quite worried having my turbo's that close to the ground with exposed compressor wheels like that

But love the idea, it's got me thinking now...

Do you think that would be room for a decent size single turbo next to the block anywhere?

Similar to this maybe?

This is what I am looking at doing to my VH once it's in and working. I'll probably be flicking the aircon and possibly the PS (maybe go a SW20 electric pump, not sure yet and my arms are a bit skinny ) so I will have a bit of room to spare.

Maybe you could mark the crossmember where the AC lines will be an issue and notch it a bit there too, just for peace of mind. Also, where do you get custom AC lines made? It's something I've never done before, but if I put my other VH in my Z, I'd need to do the same thing.

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

What's a carbon canister? Maybe that's what went to the fuel sized line that's plugged up on my drivers side wheel well? Hmmm, could be...

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

Thanks for the pics of the a/c! I was wondering if it would fit and now I'm relieved that once I get my cooling issues solved I can kick back on long highway drives in some nice cold frothy air!!!

You're welcome.

Thanks,
Nick.

Quote, originally posted by Chrispy300 »

Going to have room for air filters? I'd be quite worried having my turbo's that close to the ground with exposed compressor wheels like that

Quote, originally posted by Chrispy300 »

But love the idea, it's got me thinking now... Do you think that would be room for a decent size single turbo next to the block anywhere? This is what I am looking at doing to my VH once it's in and working. I'll probably be flicking the aircon and possibly the PS (maybe go a SW20 electric pump, not sure yet and my arms are a bit skinny ) so I will have a bit of room to spare.

Not sure if you can do something that big on the sides - there's room but not that much room for turbos of this size. You may be able to fit some small twins. Plus on the layout in the pictures you showed you would have to sacrifice some accessories or go electric with them as you mentioned. If you could relocate the P/S and A/C to somewhere else or eliminate them altogether, it would open up the bottom part of the motor to do stuff. I just didn't want to go that route as electric A/C necessitates R134a and I would have to re-engineer my A/C to have the 134a work properly (larger condenser, mods in the orifice tube in the EVAP core, etc.) - I'm planing to keep mine R12. As far as P/S it's wait and see if the factory one will clear, otherwise I'll be addressing alternatives.

Thanks,
Nick.

Thanks for the feedback and you're welcome. I will start looking for a scavenging pump at Summit/Jegs. I think I may notch the rail a bit as you recommended as the A/C hose fittings are a little larger than the mounting flange on the A/C compressor and they will most likely hit.

As far as A/C lines it took me a long time of calling different A/C shops to find one that does hose rebuilds *and* hard lines. The particular one I found in Houston does it for hot rods and things. The guy told me for around $400 he can fabricate all new hardlines and hoses. I will need to bring him the car and everything will be custom made to fit properly. I also found another place that they can make the hoses and hardlines if I bring them a template. Regardless of the option I choose, I may have the guy build the lines and then I can take a picture with measurements and post them for others to have something to work off of.

Thanks,
Nick.

Nick,

From what I've read here: http://s95014253.onlinehome.us/63104/6901.html

You should be fine without the CC.

We'll see - but I don't have a problem helping out.....

Thanks again,
Nick.

P.S. Do you happen to have a spare 94 water pump pulley? I've been looking around and even sent an e-mail to a person that had helped out another member, but I haven't been able to find anything. The pulley on mine is from a 93 and the offsets are off due to the water pump being shorter on the pre-94s

Great read! Thanks for locating this. So I'm assuming the 93 ECM shouldn't throw any fits with the CC missing?

Please advise and thanks again.

Nick.

Here are links to a couple I've used.
http://www.pirtekusa.com/
http://www.granberry.com/

FYI

Thanks Nick, I'll be keeping my eye out for it...

Quote, originally posted by npez »

P.S. Do you happen to have a spare 94 water pump pulley? I've been looking around and even sent an e-mail to a person that had helped out another member, but I haven't been able to find anything. The pulley on mine is from a 93 and the offsets are off due to the water pump being shorter on the pre-94s

I saw your post and unfortunately I only have 1 pulley, no spare. I'm not using it right now, but there's a good chance I'll need it someday and I don't want to part with it... sorry.

Correct, your 93 should have no issues. Same goes for your 94 VH ECU...

Thanks for the heads up! It's good to know there are other options out there...

That's what I looked at originally (hydraulic shops), and the one here that I found that would do it (very small job for most) will do the p/s hardlines and hoses for me, but weren't equiped to do the a/c lines; something to do with the ends they use for industrial hydraulics (tube farell) versus my ends for the A/C.

That's the problem I kept running into until a hydraulics guy (that couldn't do the job) filled me in on the differences and recommended a place that would. Thanks for providing these references though it's always good to have them.

Thanks,
Nick.

I'm looking at this adapter from Z1 motorsports (http://www.z1motorsports.com/p...=2822)for the thermo switch (I'm trying to keep the 2 stage aspect of this going and keep it as clean as possible, by using my Z's fan/sub-fan relays). Does anyone know the pitch of the threads? 1/8" NPT (27) or 1/8" BSPT(28)? I'm trying to figure this out so they can ship me this with my 8 injectors/orings. Please advise.

Thanks,
Nick.

Please advise.....

Thanks,
Nick.

Thanks for the feedback. I hadn't seen this before - and it looks very cool. As I am looking at around $100 for the adapter and the sensor, and I found the HKS for $174 so far, and it will piggy-back off the ECT sensor. I think the extra $74 are going to be well worth it. I noticed it does do the 2-stage function on 1 fan (which really doesn't matter as the SPAL radiator fan and the low speed winding on the condenser fan will come on together off one relay) and then the second stage will put the condernser fan on high-speed off the second relay.

So I think this will fit the bill perfectly. I'll look around a little more and see if that's the best price I can find, and probably go with the HKS fan controller even though it's a little more cost - it's still a better value and simplifies things further.

Thanks again bud....

Nick.

I've read a variety of posts on the internet (ranging from electric oil pumps, differential fluid pumps, to a moroso fuel pump that's all metalic inside), but wanted to get some recommendations here.

Please advise.

Thanks,
Nick.

Shane, out of curiosity what are you using in your rear mount setup?

Thanks again for all the help.

Nick.

Here is mine.

Thanks for the feedback. BTW, on the needle valve you're using, you mentioned using it as you were worried that you would blow the seals on the turbo. Are you "drawing" from the turbo's suction side in your setup? I was under the impression that sucking oil would at worse create a vacuum in the center cartridge, which would at worse draw more oil. I would've thought the restrictor on the oil inlet line on the turbo would prevent this sort of thing. Please advise, as I need to take the needle valve under consideration if this is not the case.

Thanks,
Nick.

Just a quick update. Craigztoyz came over this afternoon and after a lot of work we got the crossmember modified and the engine back in and mounted. Everything lined up perfectly and we did the cruise control bracket mod as well. After this process it appears that the factory power steering pump will not fit (sway bar clearance issue). Thinking about electric p/s from MR2 or similar - if anyone has any other recommendations for this I'd love to hear them.

I've got to do some cleanup work and re-spray the cross-member, and then I'll take pictures and post. Sometime next week I should be receiving the 555cc injectors, orings, and hicas eliminator and will install the hicas eliminator the rest will wait for another couple of weeks or so.

The turbos are going to end up in the nose of the car as it is impossible to get plumbing to run the air filters from the turbos in a sidemount orientation (the turbos have 4" inlets so there is no cast small radius elbow to accomodate the restriction). So with that said, I will design a bracket to hang them and then will tow the car sometime next week to have the manifolds and exhaust system done. Once complete (this will actually take 1-2 weeks for the full exhaust with tie ins to the factory exhaust) I will have a 2.5 inch turbo bypass pipe with a turbo inlet flange on one side and a 5-bolt flange on the other fabricated, so I can remove the turbos and run the car initially in normally aspirated form.

During this time, I will try to order the rest of the parts I need in order to get the car running (fan controller, water pump pulley, hoses, belts, etc.) as well as some phase 2A parts (scavenging pump, nistune, ostrich2) with the phase 2a parts needing to wait until after father's day.

That's the plan at least. I'll keep you updated with the progress being made and will post pictures when I take some more.

Thanks again to Craig for all the hard work, a very long night, and a job well done!

Thanks,
Nick.