A little background: I'm not "in the business" (I'm in the technology field actually) so there is that delicate balance that I need to maintain between family (wife and 2 kids), work, and my passion for cars. The negative is that I can't devote all of my time to my hobby, but the possitive is a supportive wife (enjoys kicking the tail out at 45MPH) and a job that can fund all the stuff I need to do to make all of this possible. Much of the hard core fab work (welding, engine building, etc.) I leave to the experts. Anything electrical/electronic, intermediate mechanical, etc. I can do or can learn to do myself. I've done 1 other engine conversion in the past so I have a little experience there. With all that said, here's the plan.

My project is a 93 300ZX Twin-Turbo receving a 94 VH45 motor after a freak catastrophic bottom end failure on the VG30DETT at 76K miles. The project will take a multi-phase approach (like others on NICO) consisting of a base setup and then something more; in my case a twin-turbo setup. The car is intented to be a strong GT street (occasional track) car and I will do everything I can to maintain that balance - I am not looking to build a race only vehicle. The basic idea is:

Phase I - Get the car running normally aspirated
Engine - Purchased - craigztoyz helping me with engine mount and oil pan fab
Transmission - Mazworx Adapter to VG MT - Purchased - Planning on using existing RPS Cyn-R-G lightweight flywheel and RPS clutch.
Fuel - Will use stock TT fuel pump and VH injectors. Sorting out bending fuel lines to the LH side of engine bay to better integrate with Zs setup. Craig excellent suggestion
Electrical - Sorted out and in process of soldering "sister" harness to use z ECCS/EGI, etc. relays, fuel pump controller, etc. into VH EFI harness - posted integration document on forum.
Other - HICAS Delete - Reuse HICAS high-pressure lines along the frame rails as oil feel & return for turbos in Phase 2.

Phase II - Bring on the boost - Goal: Reliable 500-600RWHP (based on initial calculations about 14-18psig)
Engine - Rebuild with 8.5 or 9:1 CR forged ceramic/moly coated pistons and stronger rods
Turbos - TBD - Rear mounted Twin-Turbo intercooled setup; researching turbo sizing based on NICO members experiences, Garrett website as well as Corky Bell's book. Not sure if I will be able to integrate my B&B exhaust after the turbos or if it will restrict airflow.
Intercooler - TBD - Leaning on air to water setup possibly with A/C suction side integration
Oil Cooler - Re integrate Calsonic TT oil cooler (bigger if needed)
Fuel - Have a set of new 555cc NISMO injectors I purchased for the VG30DETT. Will either buy 2 more or if deemed too small (which I think they are) will sell and bump up to higher capacity ones.
Cooling - Install Z1 motorspors ultimate cooling package (Howe Radiator, Flex-a-lite fan, etc.) I purchased for the Z
Engine Management - TBD - Leaning towards factory ECM and adding a romulator
Other - Will need to sort out MAF choking at this level of boost as well as other issues as they come up.

I am trying to break this down to many small projects to make it happen but I still believe phase 2 is still 9 months to a year away from phase 1 completion. The strategy is to design the systems and purchase all the parts (3-6 months) and then take 3-6 months to integrate/install. I'll post pics of the progress soon. For now I've posted some pictures of the car pre-failure at the track.

If there is something you see in my thinking that you believe is unreasonable/unattainable please let me know as my goal/objectives are flexible at this point and easier to adjust at this juncture verus when all the parts are bought and/or fabbed.

Your input as always will be greatly appreciated.

Nick.

Here are some pictures of the car at Texas World Speedway and yes that is my wife in one of the pictures (she wanted to drive as well) - this event was a total blast!:

Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 12:05 PM 5/12/2008

I'm a believer in the rear mount turbo setup so you have my vote there. Here's a link to my excel spreadsheet for turbo selection, I used the information from the Garret web site tutorials to make it. For twin turbos you just use 1/2 the displacement and HP goal. Sheets 2 and 3 of the spreadsheet also have information on them as well. It gives you a total of 9 horsepower examples when your plug in your data.

This is the blank one...
http://www.c4caraudio.com/tech...2.xls

This one has the data from my car in it, VH45DE '94 Q45. If you just half the engine displacement to 137 cubic inches and 1/2 the horsepower desired on this one you could use it for your application. Just use two of the turbo's you select and double the horsepower calculation for the end result. Maybe I should make a new page for twin turbo calculation...hmm.
http://www.c4caraudio.com/tech...l.xls

For the MAF you have a couple options that come to mind. since you are using twin turbos you could use twin MAFs either blow through or draw through. I've heard of a few people that moved the MAF to the back and did draw through. I don't think I would personally do that. Many people also just use the MAF element and install it in a larger tube making their own larger MAF. The reading will be lower for a larger volume of air. You just have to retune for the change in the load/TP level. I haven't done this with mine yet but it should't be too difficult. The single larger MAF is the way I'd go.

Here's a link to one article I found on this mod.
http://autospeed.com/A_2631/xB....html

Modified by qsiguy at 1:16 PM 5/12/2008



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 12:36 PM 5/12/2008

I love your setup. I've been reading about it a lot here on NICO and it was part of the inspiration (the other part is reality of trying to twin-turbo this motor in the Z32 engine bay ) of doing a rear twin-turbo configuration.

Quote, originally posted by qsiguy »

Here's a link to my excel spreadsheet for turbo selection, I used the information from the Garret web site tutorials to make it. For twin turbos you just use 1/2 the displacement and HP goal. Sheets 2 and 3 of the spreadsheet also have information on them as well. It gives you a total of 9 horsepower examples when your plug in your data. This is the blank one... http://www.c4caraudio.com/tech...2.xls This one has the data from my car in it, VH45DE '94 Q45. If you just half the engine displacement to 137 cubic inches and 1/2 the horsepower desired on this one you could use it for your application. Just use two of the turbo's you select and double the horsepower calculation for the end result. Maybe I should make a new page for twin turbo calculation...hmm. http://www.c4caraudio.com/tech...l.xls

This is a fantastic spreadsheet I recommend it to all! - I downloaded it a few days ago I just hadn't connected Shane with your screen name - I too went through the calculations at the Garrett website and your spreadsheet was a Godsend. As far as a TT section, you could do it, but the alternative (halfing the displacement) works just as well considering your audience (people that have a pretty good understanding to begin with) and the fact that your reader is now going down the path of treating the motor as two 2.25 liter motors.

Quote, originally posted by qsiguy »

For the MAF you have a couple options that come to mind. since you are using twin turbos you could use twin MAFs either blow through or draw through. I've heard of a few people that moved the MAF to the back and did draw through. I don't think I would personally do that. Many people also just use the MAF element and install it in a larger tube making their own larger MAF. The reading will be lower for a larger volume of air. You just have to retune for the change in the load/TP level. I haven't done this with mine yet but it should't be too difficult. The single larger MAF is the way I'd go. Here's a link to one article I found on this mod. http://autospeed.com/A_2631/xB....html

I think I will probably go the route of dual MAF (though the mod is pretty trick). Would you go for A) dual TT MAFs rewired (different connector), B) use stocker Q45 ones, or a variation of the mod above (frequently done on Z32 TTs) whereby you fab up a Y pipe with [2] 2.5 intake tubes merging to a single 90mm tube which would go to the VH throttle body; one part of the Y would house the Z32 MAF and the other would be a flow through?

Thanks again for your feedback - I'll probably be "tapping" you for info when I get into phase 2. Do you believe the HP goal is attainable with what I'm looking at doing? It is in theory based on the spreadsheet I'm just not sure what else could go at this level (I had heard something about the oiling system not being up to snuff for really high HP)

Best regards,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 2:04 PM 5/12/2008

I'm not exactly sure how the dual MAFs are installed/wired. I've heard of having a "dummy" MAF but if it's a dummy I'm not sure why it's even there. Seems like if you just put one MAF (any type TT or OEM VH) on one of the turbo compressor outlets so you were just measuring 1/2 the air flow, you could just tune for that. In theory that's about the same thing as putting the MAF in a larger tube. Someone correct me if I am way off base on this one. From what I've seen tuning mine, if you know the TP, whatever it is, you can tune for that. So as long as the flows remain pretty much equal between the two turbos you should be able to tune with one MAF(?).. [This is me thinking out loud.]



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 4:24 PM 5/12/2008

I'm not planning on dual throttle bodies. I'm planning on a 2-in 1-out intercooler unless I have space issues running that big a pipe from the FMIC to the throttle body (don't want to hack up the car too much). Worse case scenario I'll run 2-in 2-out then a Y that will merge the flow into a 90mm pipe to the single Q throtle body. Going the latter route I could mount a Z MAF on one of the legs of the Y and a dummy one on the other (similar result to the MAF in a larger pipe).

As far as the dumy MAF I'm under the impression that the doolz systems that are used on the Zs basically are done to split the air in half (and allow for even more airflow x2). Of course the Z has dual throttle bodies and is more analogous to having [2] 1.5L motors versus the Q. The dummy MAF sensor is used to allow for the same restrictions (read wire mesh in the MAF) as the real MAF on the other side. The fundamental principle for this system to work is that the unmetered air is equal to the metered airflow. So the doolz system will allow for more air while allowing the MAF on the one side to measure half the air (with proper tuning) and still max out at 500HP but being that's only half the airflow it would be 500HP x 2.

The most straight-forward solution would be to get a MAF that can handle the higher HP, and plumb it before the throttle body but after the BOV as you've done but I read somewhere that you loose resolution with larger MAFs which may affect streetability at lower RPM.

Not sure if you or anyone has heard anything to that effect.

Thanks,
Nick.




Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 4:34 PM 5/12/2008

I also wanted to add, that I have all the factory IC and plumbing that I took off my car, so dual IC with a merge would be possible but I would then need to go air-to-air intercooling. Not sure how well this would work though..... versus the alternative.

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 6:16 PM 5/12/2008

What are you planning for your P.S.?



Post Title: Re: (T45)
Posted by: npez at 6:48 PM 5/12/2008

Thanks for the feedback. For the P/S I'm planning on using the stock Q pump (hopefully everything will clear - I'll know for sure when Craig comes down so we can weld the mounts). The plan is to take the Q high pressure hose from the pump to the rack and lengthen it by about 2-3 inches and add a fitting for the P/S pressure sensor. For the return line from the rack I'm going to use the factory hardline that crosses through the front of the car and used to return to the HICAS solenoid. I will lengthen the hose on the end of that line and go to a NA Z's reservoir (just picked one up on ebay). For the fill line I'm going to have a 1/2" line fabbed (same bends as the factory line) and siamezed (attached) to the existing return line so this will allow me to have all factory bracketry securing those lines. A side benefit is that this allows me to leave the P/S reservoir in the Z's factory location.

I'm doing something similar with the A/C (gotta have A/C in Houston) - I may reuse the factory Q's suction side (directly from the evap core) but will have a new high side line made that will go from one side of the condenser to where the drier currently is and have a hose attached to the end of it with the Q fittings for the compressor.

I found a place here locally that will do all the lines for a couple of hundred dollars, I'll see what they say when I bring them the stuff.

My goal is to retain all the creature comforts while keeping everything stock looking (nothing seeming out of place except the motor)

Thanks again for your feedback.

Nick.


Modified by npez at 7:20 PM 5/12/2008



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: qsiguy at 7:19 PM 5/12/2008

You really could do pretty well with the OEM IC's since the intake temps will be cooler already since you have rear mounted turbos. Are you planning any methanol or water injection? That would help as well. I just ordered an intercooler. I had planned to leave it out and just let the methanol injection handle it but I'm addicted and if I can get 20-30 or more hp by installing an intercooler then I'm sold. Also, for the time being I'm pretty much limited to about 8-9 psi max with these 370cc injectors and stock MAF so I want to get the most power I can from my 8 psi. Of course when I cool the intake charge down I may find I just max out the MAF and injectors sooner. Oh well, cross that bridge when I get there.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 7:29 PM 5/12/2008

I was looking at the snow system from Z1 Motorsports for the VG30DETT; I may consider that for the VH as well. The beauty about it is it's engineered for the Z so they provide a NA Z windshield washer tank that fits neatly on the RH side of the car and all the plumbing fits the Z. On the TT the windshield washer fluid is on the LH side back. Like you I'm thinking running cheap windhield washer fluid. I suppose I can get the generic kit and do it myself - I'll see what the price difference is.

It's good to hear that you picked up an intercooler - that will help a bit. The methanol injection will help a lot! I know what you mean by addiction. It seems you tell someone you're putting 400+ to the wheels and the thrill is amazing - for about a month. Then you don't "feel" it anymore and want more.

I look forward to hearing how the cooler air is working out - very curious on the MAF sensor....

Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 11:24 PM 5/12/2008

I got a new appreciation for the speed of my car during a recent business trip while in my rental car...a Chevy Cobalt Kinda cool looking with the wing and all but you put your foot down and I was sure there was something keeping the pedal from going all the way down At that moment I said to myself, wow, my car is really fast!

Can't wait to see your build get started. I really love watching builds materialize. Make sure you document it well and take lots of photos. Others like them and I have referenced my install photos many many times figuring out how to do something.



Post Title: Re: (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 11:42 PM 5/12/2008

and sweeeeet! I can't wait...... I got most of the garage picked up after the ceiling renovation for the lift - and all the "extra" parts I've taken out of the Z are finally in the attic versus the floor.....

I'll post some pictures of the car in it's current state and then take some photos of the "sister" harness and labeling as I do the soldering work.....

Thanks,
Nick.

Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 11:49 PM 5/12/2008

Quote, originally posted by qsiguy »

I got a new appreciation for the speed of my car during a recent business trip while in my rental car...a Chevy Cobalt Kinda cool looking with the wing and all but you put your foot down and I was sure there was something keeping the pedal from going all the way down At that moment I said to myself, wow, my car is really fast!

That's funny with the cobalt. When you think that you're probably putting down 3-4x the horsepower it all starts to make sense.....

Quote, originally posted by qsiguy »

Can't wait to see your build get started. I really love watching builds materialize. Make sure you document it well and take lots of photos. Others like them and I have referenced my install photos many many times figuring out how to do something.

I'm pretty excited about it. I've already started taking pictures and will post the "current state" as soon as I download them off the camera and resize them. The car is a shell at the moment as far as the powertrain but when Craig comes down from Austin, I'll put the car on the lift and make sure I take photos from many different angles...

Take care,
Nick.



Post Title: Current state photos of the Z
Posted by: npez at 12:34 AM 5/13/2008

-engine/trans/driveshaft
-Midpipes (Random Technology High Flow Cats) and X pipe
-EFI harness
-HICAS engine bay hydraulic lines and HICAS solenoids
-Radiator/AC Condenser/AC Drier
-A/C Line from cross-member and nose of the car.
-Bumper Cover & Bumper supports
-All turbo plumbing, recirculating valves, intercoolers, etc.

In the pictures you'll see some of the items I'm referencing in the thread such as the power steering return hard line on the LH frame rail as well as the HICAS hardlines that go from the LH engine bay to the back of the car. I'm going to be using these as oil feed/return lines with an electric oil pump for scavenging in the rear of the car.

When Craig comes down for us to weld up the mounts and put the engine in, I'll take lots of pictures for an update.

Nick.

The Z Disassembled

RH Side of Engine Bay - HICAS Solenoid + Lines Removed as well as EFI Harnes

LH Side of Engine Bay - You can see the P/S Return Line on the frame Rail. I'm going to have a 1/2" line made and siamezed to this one for the feed line to the pump.

A closeup of the HICAS Lines. These will be used as oil feed/return lines as the twin-turbo setup will be rear-mounted.

A couple of pictures of the 1994 VH45DE motor that will be going in

That's all I've got until I take pictures of the harness work.

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 1:29 AM 5/13/2008

Some suggestions if I may. You have an excellent looking engine. If it were me I would leave it alone until the turbo build. I wouldn't pull anything off of it at all, just the exhaust mani's and drop it in.

You'll also have to modify the coolant neck where the fill cap is on the engine. It sticks up too far and interferes with the Z hood a lot more than the plenum.

Also, what are your plans for your plumbing to the intercooler(s) from the turbo's? Once the VH is in there is very very little room to route plumbing around it. Just curious.

I'll pop up with random memories and suggestions as your build progresses. It just comes to me in flashes, must be menopause...



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 8:35 AM 5/13/2008

Shane,

Yeah I started about 6 months ago when I took the Z motor out de-torqued the heads and then disassembled the rest of the motor to make an assessment of what kind of damage I had. The bulge around the flange and the tear in the metal of the oil pan weren't good signs. When I finally assessed I found out the #6 rod had snapped on the big end and went flying down, broke the girddle and then all that went flying around hitting the crank and tearing everything up.

About 3 months ago I started researching different motor options and decided on the VH, picked up the parts and began work on this project.

The hydraulic lift was a present from my wife. It makes it much easier to work on the car.

Thanks.
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (T45)
Posted by: npez at 8:46 AM 5/13/2008

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

What a terrible father. Your kid has a bone stock pink corvette while daddy is busy hopping up his Z. Show the kid some love and put in a couple more batteries in series will ya?

I suck don't I? Believe it or not the little mustang is pretty fast to begin with but I had looked into some motors that are a little higher voltage and faster. I guess she'll have to wait until she's 6 or 7 for that! Confusius said "too much power bad for little 4 year old girls"

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

Some suggestions if I may. You have an excellent looking engine. If it were me I would leave it alone until the turbo build. I wouldn't pull anything off of it at all, just the exhaust mani's and drop it in. You'll also have to modify the coolant neck where the fill cap is on the engine. It sticks up too far and interferes with the Z hood a lot more than the plenum.

Thanks for the compliment I will probably be coating some of the parts later (when it's in the machine shop) to make it pretty. What type of modification is done (i.e. do people just hack a part off)? There's the ECT and Engine Temp for the temp gauge on this pipe. Please advise if you remember off the top of your head - or if you have a picture that would be great too....

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

Also, what are your plans for your plumbing to the intercooler(s) from the turbo's? Once the VH is in there is very very little room to route plumbing around it. Just curious.

I was thinking along side the frame rails but I won't know exactly how until I see the motor in there and I start looking around..... It also depends if I'm going to use the factory ICs as the pipes would then need to go to the nose of the car. Once there the plumbing routing should become a little more straight-forward.

Thanks again for all your feedback.....

Nick.



Post Title: Injector Sizing and some thoughts
Posted by: npez at 7:16 PM 5/13/2008

Goal 600HP (Crank) approx 500RWHP
Brake Specific Fuel Consumption (BSFC): .625 (turbocharged)
Injector Duty Cycle: 85% (a little higher than the typical 80%)
Fuel Pressure: 47PSI (a little higher than stock)

So if I increase the fuel pressure and don't beat the snot out of the car the 555cc injectors should work. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

If I keep the fuel pressure at stock the injectors would be marginally too small. Is the best bet to go to 720cc NISMOs to get more upside or stick with what I have? My understanding is that going way big may introduce other issues like low RPM atomization, etc. so if anyone has any experience/constructuve criticism on this I would appreciate your feedback.

Also I've been tinkering with the idea of braking Phase 2 into a 2A and 2B to help expedite things and have tangible results faster.

2A would incorporate the turbo's at 7-8PSI (maybe more) with stock internals, the TT factory ICs, the 555cc injectors, TT oil cooler integration, water/alcohol injection, and ECU tuning.

2B would go further with having the engine rebuilt low compression, stronger internals, turning up the boost, MAF work, and additional ECU tuning.

Doing it this way divides the cost to maybe $2-3K USD for 2A as I have most of the stuff already, and another $3-4K USD for phase 2B. The benefit is that for relatively small dollars I can have a car that's pretty darn quick after 2A. Also I don't have to explain $7K all at once to my wife . Judging by Shane's video and my previous setup (about 380RWHP) I think the bulk of my problem will be traction anyway (which can be addressed after 2A).

Does this sound reasonable or will I have challenges finding a turbo that will be flexible enough (lag, flow, etc.) at 7-8psig as well as 16psig in phase 2B (I obviously don't want to buy turbos twice). I know the GT25s that the VG30DETT came with had an operating range of 9psig stock and could go to 18psig after which they were just blowing hot air. I know the GT25's would be way small; I'm using that as an example.

A side benefit will be that I can then set my Greddy Profec B later to have a low setting of 7-8psig (for when my wife drives the car) and 15-16psig (for hauling butt)

Thanks,
Nick.

Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 9:20 PM 5/13/2008

Along the frame rails... well there is about 0 room along the frame rails after the engine and mani's are in. I believe the best option is to do a TT setup using forward facing mani's, ditching the a/c and p/s pumps, and using similar routing to the stock Z intake piping. There really isn't any room...at all. lol

I'll keep looking at my build and see what I can come up with.



Post Title: Re: (T45)
Posted by: npez at 10:00 PM 5/13/2008

Thanks for the feedback.

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

On my coolant neck I just cut it off to where I could plumb a rubber hose to it. I'll post pics when I get a chance.

That will be great - it sure will make it easier - did you have to weld a bead on the end so you could clamp the hose, or does the hose hold pretty well with just the clamp on the pipe?

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

Along the frame rails... well there is about 0 room along the frame rails after the engine and mani's are in. I believe the best option is to do a TT setup using forward facing mani's, ditching the a/c and p/s pumps, and using similar routing to the stock Z intake piping. There really isn't any room...at all. lol

Man that's a buzz kill. If there isn't any room removing a/c and p/s wont be an option - I need to retain the creature comforts that's one of the project givens. When you mentioned the lack of room I started staring at the car this evening and was trying to think a little out of the box.

This idea may sound crazy but bear with me. What would prevent me from running 2-1/2" plumbing through the fenderwell? If you look underneath that's where the body harnesses are run. There's actually a channel of sorts under there. So with some heatshielding/wrap around the electrical harnesses, there may be enough room to tuck the plumbing underneath. This would make the plumbing end up covered by the underfender splash shields. The front of the pipe would also end up right where the factory intercoolers are. I will have to lift the car up and pull the wheels off to confirm, but it may be plausible, though unorthodox somewhat.

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

I'll keep looking at my build and see what I can come up with.

That will be great - keep in mind when you're looking that I don't want to sacrifice the creature comforts.....

Thanks again for your feedback and I'll let you know (maybe take some pics as well) once I have the car up in the air....

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Turbo Plumbing through the Fenderwell?
Posted by: npez at 12:53 AM 5/14/2008

The pics are of the RH fender (wing for our international readers) - Based on what I see I seriously think this may be a do-able option if there simply is no other logical way to route through the engine bay. I am aware that the LH side has the vacuum tank for the PRVR but that's going away anyway. The only other thing that *may* get in the way is the overflow tank, but I think we still have about 3 inches to route the pipe. The 9 o clock position may be a little tight as well but I didn't take a good picture of it. Fabbing the bend on the aluminum pipe may cost a little bit but to me at least it would be worth it to keep a/c and p/s.

A benefit with this routing is that the pipe while a little longer then a straight shot through the engine will be away from engine heat and therefore a little cooler. So here are the pics.

The channel I mentioned in an earlier post between the fender and inner fender support. This is at the 12 o clock position

Front of the fender around 4 o clock position - the black thing in the picture is just a piece of plastic that is trimmable if need be

12 o clock again with measurement to the underfender splashield mounting tab

10 o clock with measurement to the splashield mounting tab

Crazy idea or worth exploring further? Comments/feedback as always is appreciated.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 7:16 AM 5/14/2008

The fenderwell is the other option I researched. It would work perfectly for the front half of the car. Once you're under the car it gets tight again. I brainstormed of running a single rear mount, hooking the mani's together near the trans and using one of the stock exhaust pipes to feed and one for return, kinda like your hicas oil feed idea.

I didn't break out a tape measure or anything, just eyeballed. That's so far off in the future it's not worth getting my hopes up for. I can barely afford to get it on the road as it is, having to shadetree a lot just so I can drive it and work out some bugs.



Post Title: Re: (T45)
Posted by: npez at 7:54 AM 5/14/2008

Thanks a bunch for the feedback.

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

As for the coolant neck it has a textured surface and I think just a clamp will suffice, but if you're got the resources it wouldn't be a bad idea.

I'll call a friend of mine that TIG welds and see if he can do a bead otherwise I'll run it as is like you did.

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

The fenderwell is the other option I researched. It would work perfectly for the front half of the car. Once you're under the car it gets tight again. I brainstormed of running a single rear mount, hooking the mani's together near the trans and using one of the stock exhaust pipes to feed and one for return, kinda like your hicas oil feed idea.

Since I' have the car up in the air, I may investigate this a little more while I wait for Craig to wrap up and come down. The exhaust mani with single turbo setup is trully out of the box thinking - very impressed. I'll keep hammering at this to see where it takes me. I'll post some more pics from underneath if I see something workable. Once I get it all figured out, and I will as I'm pretty tenacious with these types of issues, and we have a workable solution, I'll post it so you can reference it later when you're ready and if you choose to go down this path.....

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 11:29 AM 5/14/2008

Yea, the othr day on the phone I realize that Nick has a LIFT IN HIS GARAGE!!!!!!! 21 years building cars, and i don't even have a lift. We need more wives like her.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 11:51 AM 5/14/2008

Nick, I just cut the neck leaving enough to clamp hose onto it without interfering with the outlet side right beside it. Look at some of the pics I sent you.
There is NO engine bay room for plumbing. But trust me I am looking into it too. Not to worry, one step at a time.
engine is sitting in bay right now, all wired in, testing everything, and then as soon as i get these darn bolts to hold flywheel to crank and p/p, then should be good to go. trying to tye up work here, to gt out asap.
Pan fits Great!, mani's, well I beat the crap out of them, and they need more. Resting on mani's and frame, and have a 1/8 between pan/ rack. Getting there.

here are a few pics.....you should be able to see my waterneck.

and here is one for all the haters who thought the pan would sit too low or in the way.




Post Title: Re: (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 1:11 PM 5/14/2008

Great update! your car looks great! Everything seems to be coming together very nicely. I'm going to lift the car all the way up and start peeking underneath to see the different ways plumbing could be run. More academic at this point then actually doing it, but I want to see what all the different options are.

I'll let you know what else I come up with. Great pic of the filler neck as well - I'll cut mine there too

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (T45)
Posted by: npez at 2:47 PM 5/14/2008

The more and more I think about it, your idea of a single turbo may be way more straight-forward than twins. But I'll keep looking to see if I can find any other options.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: Mettler at 3:25 PM 5/14/2008

npez, I'm jealous of your car lift >_< It's exactly what I need right now!

Have you thought about building forward facing manifolds, but having them squeeze out and up past cylinders 1 & 2 on each side at rocker cover level, then forwards before flanging for the turbos? That'd let you miss the P/S and A/C pumps, and mount the turbos behind the headlights in a similar fashion to canadiandrifter240sx's setup.

I reckon that'd work, judging vaguely by the pics craigztoyz posted of his engine mounted in place.

Post Title: Re: (Mettler)
Posted by: npez at 3:46 PM 5/14/2008

Quote, originally posted by Mettler »

Have you thought about building forward facing manifolds, but having them squeeze out and up past cylinders 1 & 2 on each side at rocker cover level, then forwards before flanging for the turbos? That'd let you miss the P/S and A/C pumps, and mount the turbos behind the headlights in a similar fashion to canadiandrifter240sx's setup. I reckon that'd work, judging vaguely by the pics craigztoyz posted of his engine mounted in place.

I had thought about it but I didn't think I could squeeze the turbos behind the headlights - now you have me thinking. Another option would be to take the front facing pipe and routing it to the nose (under the front panel where the airbox used to be) and mounting 2 turbos in there.

I asked Craig if he can send me some eye level photos of the LH and RH side manifolds in his engine bay to see how much room is actually there.

I am really wanting a twin-turbo setup so we'll have to see if the turbo will fit behind the headlights or the alternative of running it under the nose. There has to be room somewhere to fit the twins in there.

Thanks for your feedback and suggestions,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (Mettler)
Posted by: npez at 3:50 PM 5/14/2008

I see what you're saying though. In my last reply I thought the turbo would be more forward than that. I will have to see what would need to happen with the main electrical box on the LH side though. I think a turbo that close even with heatshields will melt that thing....

I'll go look......

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (Mettler)
Posted by: npez at 5:05 PM 5/14/2008

I pulled the LH manifold off the motor and tried something funky for kicks. I flipped the manifold over (clocked it 180 degrees) and other than some interference from the downpipe and the first tube with the head around cylinder 1(? forward most cylinder on the LH side) - it fits!

I'm thinking that if the downpipe was cut including the O2 bong, etc., possibly the first tube as well, and cleaned up it may set the tube in a position where the flange can be mounted on. This would minimize the amount of work needed on the manifold to just minor welding and would get us to the endpoint you suggested in your illustration.

Doing it this way also opens up enough space on the side of the motor (as the individual header pipes are now angled up) to run the exhaust from the wastegate and tie it into the exhaust system.

Have you heard of anyone flipping the manifold over like this?

Please advise.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: Mettler at 5:53 PM 5/14/2008

That's interesting that you can flip the manifold just like that, and it goes a long way to illustrating what's possible. Personally, I'd be inclined to fabricate new manifolds from scratch, as I'm not sure how durable the stock header manifolds would be if modified for twinturbo application... and they aren't all that nice quality inside either. Though they are fairly thick walled I guess... but how prone would they be to cracking etc?

Anyway, that's just speculation... it shows you that such a manifold style would fit... you're probably not the first to think of that Would be keen to read other people's opinions about recycling the stock manifolds... it's a pretty good idea as long as they're made well enough for the purpose.

And it should leave room for a 3" exhaust system on either side that as you said, you could plumb the external wastegate back into.

Another thing to consider would be that your turbos won't actually need to be all that huge. You only need an average sized (good quality) turbo to get 400HP out of an SR20DET... and considering the VH head design flows better, two medium sized turbos like GT3076Rs would undoubtedly be sufficient to achieve 800HP or so (flywheel), and could be small enough not to interfere with anything when mounted as discussed.

I've always felt this is how you'd ideally want to mount the turbos in a V8 twinturbo setup to keep the plumbing as short as you can, because while rear mounting is possible, you'd need a whole lot more pipe... and then your system is also at greater risk of damage from road hazards under the car. I dunno about you, but I've smashed bits off cars before from hitting possums and rabbits on the road... lol



Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 6:08 PM 5/14/2008

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zer...age=3

Post Title: Re: (Mettler)
Posted by: npez at 6:22 PM 5/14/2008

Quote, originally posted by Mettler »

That's interesting that you can flip the manifold just like that, and it goes a long way to illustrating what's possible. Personally, I'd be inclined to fabricate new manifolds from scratch, as I'm not sure how durable the stock header manifolds would be if modified for twinturbo application... and they aren't all that nice quality inside either. Though they are fairly thick walled I guess... but how prone would they be to cracking etc? Anyway, that's just speculation... it shows you that such a manifold style would fit... you're probably not the first to think of that Would be keen to read other people's opinions about recycling the stock manifolds... it's a pretty good idea as long as they're made well enough for the purpose. And it should leave room for a 3" exhaust system on either side that as you said, you could plumb the external wastegate back into.

I'd be interested to hear what others have to say as well. I think if gussetted properly they'll be pretty strong - the stock manis don't look too bad from what I've seen - look like stainless steel oval tubes and the flange is actually angled for better flow. I know a guy that TIGs very well so I can ask him about strength, etc. and see what his thoughts are as well and I can keep everything stainless steel.

Quote, originally posted by Mettler »

Another thing to consider would be that your turbos won't actually need to be all that huge. You only need an average sized (good quality) turbo to get 400HP out of an SR20DET... and considering the VH head design flows better, two medium sized turbos like GT3076Rs would undoubtedly be sufficient to achieve 800HP or so (flywheel), and could be small enough not to interfere with anything when mounted as discussed. I've always felt this is how you'd ideally want to mount the turbos in a V8 twinturbo setup to keep the plumbing as short as you can, because while rear mounting is possible, you'd need a whole lot more pipe... and then your system is also at greater risk of damage from road hazards under the car. I dunno about you, but I've smashed bits off cars before from hitting possums and rabbits on the road... lol

That's the turbo I was looking at over at the garrett website I'll have to get some dimensions and see how everything can fit. I liked the rear mount as the intercooling effect on the charge pipes is a good thing as well as the turbos being away from all the heat. But looking at what would be involved is a different story.... Front mount may be the only feasible way to go but this way I'll have oil and water to go ball bearing on the turbos..... I'm also going to call a bud that has a junkyard (he has a Q45 motor with a knock) and get the manifolds from that one (I believe 91-94 should be the same) - this way I can hack one set up as turbo manifolds while having my originals to complete phase 1.

This is getting more interesting by the day.....

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (tmorgan4)
Posted by: npez at 6:33 PM 5/14/2008

Thanks for your input.

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 9:50 PM 5/14/2008

I'm in the same boat as you though, I want to keep ps and a/c, make a nice sports car with great touring assets as well. What fun is a car that has 5 more hp, 15 less lbs of weight and no a/c?

Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 4:13 AM 5/15/2008

Even though you'll be hacking up the manifolds it might be easier to start with a set off a JDM imported engine since they don't have the bulky pre-cats all the US engines do.

Who completed a TT VH45 Z?



Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (tmorgan4)
Posted by: konatown at 6:04 AM 5/15/2008

EDIT:
I take that back, Perana said he had one. He's across the big puddle and gets JDM spec parts but still had one running.

Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (tmorgan4)
Posted by: npez at 1:08 PM 5/15/2008

Quote, originally posted by tmorgan4 »

Even though you'll be hacking up the manifolds it might be easier to start with a set off a JDM imported engine since they don't have the bulky pre-cats all the US engines do.

I know what you mean with the precats (nothing a recipricating (sawzall) saw couldn't take care of) but most of that section got cut off. I think this technique will be applicable to both USDM and JDM manis though - so if someone is fortunate enough to have JDM manis to start off with it'll still work. I went ahead and hacked up the LH side and it looks pretty good as a starting point.

I sent craigztoyz an e-mail with some measurements I took so I can understand the clearances we have since his engine is already in the car. I will post some pictures with measurements as soon as the batteries on the camera are charged up - I forgot to turn it off when I was downloading the last pictures .

BTW, my intention is to completely document this build, snags and all, with the workarounds/alternatives we all come up with, so in the future someone can refer back to this and see everything that's involved from start to finish. The G35 twin-turbo build is the only thread I had seen that comes close; I believe collectively we can really add a lot of value with such documentation, so in the future someone wanting to undertake something like this can trully understand why some design decisions were made.

I'll post the mani modification with pictures of the LH mani shortly.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (konatown)
Posted by: npez at 1:12 PM 5/15/2008

I think craigztoyz will be looking at turboing his at some point (we're actually about 150 miles away from each other) and he's helping me with some of the fab work. So if he does something different hopefully that can be documented as well - as an alternative to what I (we) are working on with mine.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Exaust Manifold Modification
Posted by: npez at 7:17 PM 5/15/2008

Here's the pics:

Exhaust Manifold Side View

Another view - the Cylinder 1 runner was cut for clearance and will need to be "clocked" to 12 o clock. Where the log bends in near the cut will need to be "clocked" to 11 o clock. This will position the pipe at the bottom front of the valvecover - I'm also thinking of doing a downpipe on the other side of the manifold and mounting a Tial 60mm wastegate there instead of the traditional "Y" pipe; does anyone see any issues with this? It sure would siplify the plumbing.

3 1/2 inches manifold clearance from the middle valve cover bolt. With heat and appropriate persuation this can be brought in another inch and only require 2 1/2 inches of clearance.

Plenty of space underneath the manifold to run 3" exhaust if the wastegate has to be up front in a traditional Y arrangement.

That's all I've got - if anyone has any thoughts or ideas as always they're greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Nick.

Modified by npez at 8:48 PM 5/15/2008



Post Title: Re: Exaust Manifold Modification (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 9:45 PM 5/15/2008

Quote, originally posted by tmorgan4 »

I ended up heat wrapping mine. Is this a bad idea on a turbo manifold due to heat?

I think I read somewhere that containing the heat in the exhaust manifold actually has a positive effect on a moderate to high A/R turbo's performance. I don't remember the specific thermodynamic principle but it has to do with hot air having more volume than cooler air. This is why STS who makes rear-mount turbos has some design parameters on their turbo selection that takes the temperature drop into account. So wrapping your header should keep the heat in and help with both underhood temps as well as the turbo's performance. I'm not an expert on this though, so if someone has more knowledge on the matter they can elaborate further.

Thanks,
Nick.

Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 12:20 AM 5/16/2008

Oh Yeah I plan on adding boost.

After all the breakin, and breaking of ?? time will tell.

Nick, I will post pics in a min. Hope to give more insight as to space.



Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (craigztoyz)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 9:30 AM 5/16/2008

Nick, as we spoke on phone and I measured, yeah, I think that will clear quite well. I like the pics of how you cut it. Wife n girl must love the Sawzall n its delicate sounds.
I had tried to flip them over before but due to ubstruction, dropped it. Glad to see you have made it work. Best spot is going to be in front of radiator, with i/c on outside, or viceversa, turbos out though may be too much heat in the space in front of tires, and melt the bumper n such.
So much for stage 1. or plan a, I mean. I can't wait to weld in that a/c garage. I got a lot of pics to come, and oh yeah.

check out this pic. this is with the motor in the car, intake on, and everything except piping from the tb. the hood comes within an inch all around, take out 1/2 of hood support, and bulge it a bit. Next one, I am dropping the rack an inch or so, and using different endlinks to make it up.
But this is almost under the hood, A heck of a lot more then I thought it would.

OH yeah, sorry if they came out sideways, I just cut and paste after rotating, and resaved, to hope they come out striaght. if not. sorry about the neck, or just click, save, and view. I have every photo I have seen on here that was worth a crap, saved on my laptop, all 10 quagillion.



Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 10:09 AM 5/16/2008

Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz »

Nick, as we spoke on phone and I measured, yeah, I think that will clear quite well. I like the pics of how you cut it. Wife n girl must love the Sawzall n its delicate sounds. I had tried to flip them over before but due to ubstruction, dropped it. Glad to see you have made it work. Best spot is going to be in front of radiator, with i/c on outside, or viceversa, turbos out though may be too much heat in the space in front of tires, and melt the bumper n such.

Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz »

So much for stage 1. or plan a, I mean.

The beauty about redoing the header is I'm going to add flanges in the appropriate locations to have removable downpipes with wastegates and another set that's straight through. If done right I should be able to set the car up to run normally aspirated to start with and then add the rest of the plumbing for the turbos and swap the downpipes with the wastegates on them. I also researched it a bit more and 38mm wastegates should do the job 60mm would be overkill.

Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz »

I can't wait to weld in that a/c garage. I got a lot of pics to come, and oh yeah. check out this pic. this is with the motor in the car, intake on, and everything except piping from the tb. the hood comes within an inch all around, take out 1/2 of hood support, and bulge it a bit. Next one, I am dropping the rack an inch or so, and using different endlinks to make it up. But this is almost under the hood, A heck of a lot more then I thought it would.

That's awesome. I will probably take the hood to a customizer and have a bugle added to it and then have the hood repainted. Similar to the so called "power bulge" on the M3 - it'll look stockish this way like the bulge was always there. It's fantastic that you got the motor sitting as low as you did. Great job! I can't wait to get mine in there.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 11:45 AM 5/16/2008

Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 1:16 PM 5/16/2008

Around the fender wells is an option with twins because the tubing will smaller 2" max will be fine for twins. The STS Vette kit goes around a similar route.

If you can do front mounts that's probably what I'd do. Although it could end up being as much work, or more, as the rears tho with all of the modifying you must do. I'd like to see a complete photo of the bottom of your 300z. Curious what plumbing routes are available. There is an old thread on NICO of a guy that did a rear mount on an NA 300Z. The workmanship was poor but he made it work. Not sure how it held up.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 5:53 PM 5/16/2008

Front mount is starting to look better now that motor is in.



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 9:46 PM 5/16/2008

PS, the stock VH is a monster so far. I can't open it up all the way due to some running issues but this ***** hauls ****ing ***!



Post Title: Re: (T45)
Posted by: npez at 11:49 PM 5/16/2008

Thank you for the feedback and information.

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

I was looking at this more today. I think there is sufficient room for front mount turbos but I think the stock mani's are just too wide once filpped over to clear the frame. There is about 2" and I think piping can be routed there but there are some wires, ps lines, ac lines etc that will have to be moved. A lot of work but it's possible.

Quick question. When you say front mount are you referring to behind the headlights or where the airbox used to be like I was saying? As far as the manis I think your engine may be sitting a little lower than craigztoys' and where mine will end up. The reason I say this is that I had craigztoys measure from where the "log" is to where it hits horizontally to the engine bay (going towards the fenders) and he stated that the manis are above the frame rails with about 3-1/2 inches of clearance. Now I plan on pulling the "log" inwards toward the valvecover by about an inch so in theory this will change the radiuses of each runner and provide for 3/4-1" clearance from the header to the strut tower (it actually hits where the hole is on the support for the strut tower to the frame rail). I guess we'll have to see in about a week or so when craigztoyz come over so we can stab my engine in. When I have something definitive I will report back - with pics of course:)

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

PS, the stock VH is a monster so far. I can't open it up all the way due to some running issues but this ***** hauls ****ing ***!

That's what I love to hear! I know the engine has monster torque and with the aid of some extra air and fuel it will be a real terror on the road

Thanks again for your feedback and I'll let you know what I find out as well.

Nick.

Modified by npez at 12:18 AM 5/17/2008

Modified by npez at 12:20 AM 5/17/2008



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 12:16 AM 5/17/2008

Yes we've been busy. I am over at my in-laws (out of town) at the moment, but when I get back home I can take a complete picture of the bottom of the car for you and post it here. You'll see that with a rear mount setup there would be plubling protruding all over the bottom of the car. My Z also has an Eibach Pro/Tokico suspension so the car also sits 3/4 inch lower than stock.

Let me ask you out of curiosity, I have located a couple of brand new T3/T4 hybrid turbos 57 trim with a stage 3 wheel for a pretty good price. Do you think something like this would work pretty well to get this thing kick-started? Do you have any concerns with this type of setup? I'm trying to accelerate the time between phase 1 completion and phase 2a (7-8 psi of boost). At the end of the day when the motor is "built" I may go ahead and get the GT3071Rs (I misspoke when I said 3076s earlier) if the T3/T4s don't perform as I'd like them to, and go from there.

I'm going to go visit a friend who has a muffler shop with capabilities for stainless steel mandrel bends to inquire about fabricating the plubling to and from the turbo compressor side. I may have him do the mani completion versus my other friend as I may get a better deal if he does everything - my other friend doesn't have a mandrel bender.

I want to have all this completed before craigztoyz comes down in a week or so for us to put the engine in. I plan to have the muffler shop make 2 sets of pipes. One that will go to a flange to be installed on the header which will do a 90-180* bend (depending on flange location) and tie in to the factory exhaust (so I can run the car NA). The second set (which will be done after the engine is in the car and I can drive it over there) will be pipes that will mount to the same flange and feed the front mount turbos when I'm ready to go there.

I should have a good update early next week when I finish the harness (I'll post pics of the process) and have the opportunity to talk to the muffler shop. I then go on a mini 3 day vacation with the family and will hit it hard again over the Memorial day weekend here where I will re-assemble the transmission with the modified bell housing, install the mazworx adapter, my RPS flywheel, and clutch and install the modified harness back in the car.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 12:31 AM 5/17/2008

Send me your address so I can get you some injectors!!!



Post Title: Re: (T45)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 9:09 AM 5/17/2008

WOW, I can't wait. How does it feel? Stupid amount of torque supply? I am hoping for burnouts @50mph.

Yeah, space is really tight, having the motor in, and in the exact same spot as Nick's will be, as I am the one making his mounts, pickup and pan, I can see how he is giong to do it, and pretty darn sure that he will make it fit, as for the electronics, yeah, there is a heat issue up high, and like I have been talking with Nick alot about, the space in front is very limited with a 4core radiator, and the ability to add a fan pulling is hard, a pusher is easier, but with the turbo's up there, HOT.

Nick, What's the size #'s on the Trubo.
When you come down after seeing Shamu, and get to see it in the car, it will make a big difference on your mental image. I forget right this second the exact spots we measured from on the phone that night, but yes with work they will fit, the fun is going to be the disipation of heat, hopefully coating will help majorly.
Either way the end of next weekend will be good.
Having the turbo's and mounting done, will be sweet, I can't wait to see. Screw a, b is more fun anyways, but sounds like there is sufficent power with just N/A.

Shane, I'm not abandoning the rearmount turbo idea. Nick, well his is easier this way, as his was already a turbo car. Mine being n/a might be easier to do rear, as the exhaust fits with ease, and I will somehow make a 3" pipe, ovaled, and hugging the car, fit. His piping is different, and would have to have pipe made anyways. Either way, the car is going to be even sweeter then it already is. Craig

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

I was looking at this more today. I think there is sufficient room for front mount turbos but I think the stock mani's are just too wide once filpped over to clear the frame. There is about 2" and I think piping can be routed there but there are some wires, ps lines, ac lines etc that will have to be moved. A lot of work but it's possible. PS, the stock VH is a monster so far. I can't open it up all the way due to some running issues but this ***** hauls ****ing ***!

Sounds sweet, how much power is there? at 50, will it spin the tires if you try?
I forget right now where we measured from that night, I just choose spots, to and from, to measure clearance, and it'll fit with work, and since he already cut off most of 1n2 pipes, can bend in 3-6 to get the angle closer to the eng, and away from the strut. Heat disipation is still giong to be the big issue.
Nick when you get to come down in a few days, and see it, you'll see how close everything is, and it almost seems like Nisssan intended it to go in here. Next weekend after the family goes back home, will be good though.
Shane, I still hope to go rear tt, as mine is n/a it would be easier to convert. His being turbo already, it is easier to find a way to keep it up there, as opposed to making new pipe up front, and then..... I just wonder if I will really need the extra power, or if modding the Vh45 will be enough. I mean power that you can apply, and actually use for things other then just to make the rubber go away really fast.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 9:44 AM 5/17/2008

Thanks for the feedback.

Quote, originally posted by qsiguy »

Are you asking about those T3/T4 turbos for a front mount option or rear? From what I'm reading you've pretty much shot down the rear mount option. I'd have to look at the compressor map for the turbo you are looking at to give you a decent answer. If you want my educated guess I'd say it would work and give you some room to grow in a twin configuration. I'd also want to know what the specs were on the turbine side. That's what will determine the spool up time or lag you encounter. It's more critical in a rear mount setup I believe but you should definitely know the numbers.

Here's the only info I have on the turbo.

COMPRESSOR SPECS:
flow: 53 lbs/min 678cfm
.60 A/R HOUSING
57 TRIM WHEEL

TURBINE SPECS:
.63 A/R HOUSING
STAGE 3 WHEEL

I don't know what stage 3 wheel means in this context as I'm used to looking at inducer/exducer sizes in mm - I've sent an inquiry to get that info as well as a compressor map - I'll post it as soon as I have it. When I looked around I found people are using this on the KA24s. I was thinking of using these as front mount twins.....

I hope this helps....

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (perana)
Posted by: npez at 9:51 AM 5/17/2008

That looks awesome. You did a real nice job on the plumbing for the FMIC! I look forward to seeing the pics for the exhaust mani you made.

Thanks for your feedaback!

Nick.

Modified by npez at 1:27 PM 5/17/2008



Post Title: Re: (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 9:56 AM 5/17/2008

I posted the turbo #s that I have. I have asked for additional info and will post once I have it.

I think the logistics will work out well with the trip. I mentioned it to my wife (taking the long way home) and it may be doable. I'll let you know. The measurements we took involved the middle of the motor clearance to the strut tower, the crank to front radiator support, as well as front of engine to upper radiator support. I marked everything up with a sharpie. Yes I agree it's tight - but workable!

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: perana at 2:54 PM 5/17/2008

Those turbo's look pretty good for a front mount in my opinion. If people are using it for the KA's then I'm sure it will work. What HP are they making with them? Double that and you have your approx. number. The turbine A/R is good for a front mount but for a rear it would need to be smaller. The turbine a/r on mine is .68 and the STS turbo's all have very small a/r's on the turbine. This is why the STS kits have very little lag. I looked at the corvette twin turbo kit at the SEMA show last year and they use two tiny turbo's. I have a photo of it somewhere they had two turbo's with turbine a/r's in the 30's I think.

EDIT:
Found the photos, they have .36 a/r.

Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 4:00 PM 5/17/2008

The NA radiator isnt big enough, temps above 200 except when idling. I hope to have a bigger radiator this week and fix the oil issue and along with tmo's injectors have a better running engine. I am going to go get an adapter tonight so I can run the consult to see if I have any injectors stuck or brokeded.



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 4:01 PM 5/17/2008

I hope to not have a hole in hood. I used a front sump, so I may be a lil lower, on overall height. Either way, I had hood on and was within an inch all around, so Plan to take out hood support and then bulge it as needbe.

hope the oil issue gets worked out. I am planning on using an impact to make sure crankpulley is tight as hell.



Post Title: Re: (craigztoyz)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 6:30 PM 5/17/2008

DON'T DO IT. 270 ft-lbs...torque it. Did you notice that the sprocket on the crank for the oil pump is sandwiched between the two timing chain sprockets that are keyed? It's meant to slip when the oil is cold and the engine gets revved. Over torquing is just as bad as under torquing in this case.



Post Title: Re: (tmorgan4)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 7:16 PM 5/17/2008

I do not think though that the oil chain's sprocket can ever turn at a slower speed then crank.

Hope for info on that one. How do you recommend tightening crank?



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 8:25 PM 5/17/2008

Remove the starter, lock the ring gear with a big screwdriver and torque away Or convert to manual, stick it in 5th with the hand brake on



Post Title: Re: (Chrispy300)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 9:04 PM 5/17/2008

Thanks a bunch for the help. Those vette turbos look sweet BTW - they are tiny! The workmanship of the overall package is awesome.

Thanks again for the feedback.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 5:16 PM 5/18/2008

Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz »

Nick, as we spoke on phone and I measured, yeah, I think that will clear quite well. I like the pics of how you cut it. Wife n girl must love the Sawzall n its delicate sounds. I had tried to flip them over before but due to ubstruction, dropped it. Glad to see you have made it work. Best spot is going to be in front of radiator, with i/c on outside, or viceversa, turbos out though may be too much heat in the space in front of tires, and melt the bumper n such.

Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz »

So much for stage 1. or plan a, I mean.

The beauty about redoing the header is I'm going to add flanges in the appropriate locations to have removable downpipes with wastegates and another set that's straight through. If done right I should be able to set the car up to run normally aspirated to start with and then add the rest of the plumbing for the turbos and swap the downpipes with the wastegates on them. I also researched it a bit more and 38mm wastegates should do the job 60mm would be overkill.

Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz »

I can't wait to weld in that a/c garage. I got a lot of pics to come, and oh yeah. check out this pic. this is with the motor in the car, intake on, and everything except piping from the tb. the hood comes within an inch all around, take out 1/2 of hood support, and bulge it a bit. Next one, I am dropping the rack an inch or so, and using different endlinks to make it up. But this is almost under the hood, A heck of a lot more then I thought it would.

That's awesome. I will probably take the hood to a customizer and have a bugle added to it and then have the hood repainted. Similar to the so called "power bulge" on the M3 - it'll look stockish this way like the bulge was always there. It's fantastic that you got the motor sitting as low as you did. Great job! I can't wait to get mine in there.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 1:33 AM 5/19/2008

Quote, originally posted by npez »

I can't wait to get mine in there. Thanks, Nick.

Long story short, he can get the manifolds put together (Craig BTW the pipes cannot be heated and bent) for between $300-400USD (sounded reasonable anyone have any thoughts on the price?). This includes:
- Shortening the runners to move the "log" in by an inch (this way it'll only require 2-1/2 inches clearance)
- Reconnect all the runners and the runner I cut back onto the log
- Extend the log with mandrel bends to a flange to be located in the front part of the log extension in front of the valve cover (the idea being that there will be a pipe that connects to that flange and goes to each turbo) hence making easier to take the manifolds off as it'll be a 2 piece design.
- Use of 14 gauge 304 stainless.
- He also gave me a price to coat (Jet hot) the headers inside and outside for an additional $350 - anyone have any experience with coating pricing - wasn't sure if this was a good deal or not?

He said that the manifold is pretty stout - 14 gauge stainless and that the welds look pretty good for robotic MIG. He agreed to tack the manifold together so I can check it for fitment and if everything looks good to me he'll permanently TIG the rest.

I'm going to try to get the RH heatshields, etc. off and cut the RH manifold this evening, so I can hopefully drop it off tomorrow afternoon. He said it'll be about a 1 week turn-around.

I'll cross my fingers I can get everything done in time before I go on our mini vacation.

Nick.



Post Title: Re: Exhaust Manifold Update (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 8:08 PM 5/19/2008

Thanks again,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy) - Photos of underneath of the Z
Posted by: npez at 12:27 AM 5/20/2008

Sorry it took a little bit to get the photos but I just got around to bringing the camera back out to the garage. Here you go - there are some shadows but hopefully you can discern the nuances of layout from the photos. There's plenty of space where the mufflers are but there a major constraint around the rear subframe, and the bottom is pretty flat all and all.

Thanks,
Nick.

Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 1:30 AM 5/20/2008

Sounds like your front mount method will work great tho. If I get my 300ZX some day I guess I'll have to do the rear mount. Maybe I'll just find a cheap NA model and turbo it with twins in the rear.



Post Title: Anyone have a water pump pulley from 94?
Posted by: npez at 9:47 AM 5/20/2008

Does anyone have one from a 94 that they'd be willing to part with cheap? I don't want to pay $60 to get a new one from infiniti. I can also swap the 92 one I've got if anyone needs one.

Please advise.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Anyone have a water pump pulley from 94? (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 12:56 PM 5/20/2008

Those prices sound great. If you had access, you should take him the motor, so he could build around it. Sounds great.

I still think that rear turbo is very doable. Hope to one day, but for now, see what she has with this.



Post Title: Re: Anyone have a water pump pulley from 94? (craigztoyz)
Posted by: konatown at 2:12 PM 5/20/2008

We have 36 (42 if I include Lexus) in our shop.

The header work is at a great price, in my opinion.



Post Title: Re: Anyone have a water pump pulley from 94? (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 2:33 PM 5/20/2008

Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz »

Those prices sound great. If you had access, you should take him the motor, so he could build around it. Sounds great.

I dropped off the manifolds this morning. We'll see the progress after I get back from vacation. I'm waiting on a quote for the turbos, flanges, oil lines, etc. and once I receive those and purchase, then I will finalize the layout in the engine bay and have him permanently weld.

Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz »

I still think that rear turbo is very doable. Hope to one day, but for now, see what she has with this.

It'll be great! I'm sure of it.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Turbos Update
Posted by: npez at 10:31 PM 5/20/2008

When we get the motor put in we can play around with various options and try to determine where the turbos will ultimately end up. I'll take pictures with the various scenarios we come up with.....

All I need to do now is buy 2 more Nismo 555cc injectors to complete the set as I already have the 6 in their boxes that I bought for the VG motor. I hope to get the engine management software/hardware as well later in the week (Anyone know if I can just use the Conzult cable that came with the Conzult software?) - Also I think I'll go down Shane's route with the exception of adding the Ostrich 2.0 emulator. I think this will be a good start and maybe get Nistune after I have some experience under my belt.

That's all for now. Going on vacation starting tomorrow, then coming back refreshed as there is a lot of work to be done before Craig gets here.

Thanks,
Nick.

Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 10:50 PM 5/20/2008

After swapping chips in the ECU about a dozen times you'll be ready for the real time tuning



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy) - Photos of underneath of the Z (npez)
Posted by: darkengineer at 10:54 PM 5/20/2008

I only ask because I too have plans for a VH45DE w/ FI but the rear layout is different between a 2+0 and a 2+2 due to the fuel tank. Also, I haven't been under the car in a while due to apartment complex restrictions on car repair/maintenance and now have forgotten what the layout is, exactly. I was considering a single turbo because of underbody space and knowing the amount of low-end torque the VH45 already has.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 11:04 PM 5/20/2008

The conzult came with pretty much the smae thing. Consult connector on one end - circuitry - USB. I think it should work. I'm planning on the Ostrich setup so I'll change the chip once Other than that I'll probably use what you're using/recommended.

I think it'll be verrry coool!

Thanks Shane,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (darkengineer)
Posted by: T45 at 4:55 AM 5/21/2008

I thought I had a pic but I can't find it. It's basically just like the 2+0 minus any extra room whatsoever. lol If one put in a fuel cell it would open up a lot of space. Not a lot of room for much unless you just run your pipes in and straight out of the turbo's without mufflers. Not a bad idea though, would sound sweet!



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 10:57 AM 5/21/2008

I got back on it today. Here's where I'm at:

-Reassembled the transmission with Mazworx modified bell housing
-Clearanced old VH starter mounting flange to clear Z starter and test fitted
-Installed Mazworx adapter (with one less bolt for now) due to CNC issue
-Working on harness (will post pics) to put in the car tomorrow
-Ordered turbos, 38mm waste gates (7psi setting - will use my greddy boost controller for more when that time comes), stainless steel turbo flanges & gaskets, more aluminum intercooler pumbing, and other miscellaneous items for the turbo setup - fedex shows Thursday delivery.
-Swapped out my 94 ECM with a 93 model ECM from my friend at the junkard
-Called the fabricator - will rent a pickup and bring him the engine (Great suggestion Craig) on Friday so we can fab the manifolds up with the engine there. I will also have him fab up a removable turbo bypass pipe for now so I can run the car normally aspirated without any turbos connected - this will allow me to stage between turbo and NA.

Craig is coming down Tuesday (Monday would've been even better ) so we can do the engine mounts and put the newly fabbed oil pan on. Once the engine/trans is in the car I will do my measurements to see where the turbos will end up and bring that info to the fabricator for the manifold fabbing.

To Do in the next week or so:
-Purchase pilot bearing (tomorrow) - will mount flywheel & clutch when we have the engine in.
-Sort out logistics of the turbo installation
-Figure out what needs to be done to the ECM to work with the rom emulator.
-Order Ostrich2 and other engine management essentials
-Order t-pipe for thermo-switch for the fan.
-Locate and buy MAF sensor
-Locate and buy water pump pulley

That's about it for now....

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Quick Update (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 2:24 AM 5/25/2008

Thanks again,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (npez)
Posted by: z1 zonly at 11:23 PM 5/26/2008

Thanks again.

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 1:33 AM 5/27/2008

Let me know if you find any bugs in it. I think I worked them all out.
http://c4caraudio.com/tech/for...T.xls



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 2:06 AM 5/27/2008

I did use your original version of the spreadsheet and it sure made things easier. I did like we talked and halfed the displacement and then multiplied by 2 for the total. The twin-turbo version is a great addition!

The spreadsheet really does work very well and everyone considering a turbo should use it. The alternative is doing all the Garrett calculations by hand that is no fun - seriously......

Thanks again Shane.

Nick.



Post Title: iServe having a problem?
Posted by: npez at 3:22 PM 5/27/2008

I had to hit up Webster's for that one.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 11:38 PM 5/27/2008

Quote, originally posted by qsiguy »

I don't know, I always use Photobucket, highly recommended.

Thanks,
Nick



Post Title: The moral of the story.....
Posted by: npez at 11:49 PM 5/27/2008

So I start working it and the ECM connector appears aligned to go through - BUT it's slightly stuck. So my thought is to use my rubber mallet to "tap" it through the rest of the way. So tapping I go and it's moving, it's almost through, and CRACK. My heart skipped several beats as I proceeded to take the connector back out to see what happened. Then CRACK again.

I finally took the connector out to discover that it broke in two places

What started out as a one hour project is going to turn into 3-4 hours. I just finished de-pinning a spare connector I had (took 45 minutes) and believe it or not my fingers are sore. I will now start taking pin by pin on the broken connector de-pin it and re-pin them to the good ECM connector.

So the moral of the story here is, if you have to force it, even slightly, you're doing something wrong

I now hope I can get this thing done this evening to progress to the next steps of the project.

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 5:52 AM 5/28/2008

So I'll put it in this evening. Just out of curiosity have you heard if people run the harness in the factory Z location (with the harness hangers) or if they go with the hangers on the motor? I'm leaning towards the latter but wanted to see if you could recall something from the top of your head.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Harness Pictures
Posted by: npez at 1:07 PM 5/28/2008

300zx Relay harness for new sister harness to the VH's Harness - you need to sort through your EFI harness and get all the wiring that leads up to the 2 connectors on the fuse/relay box on the LH fenderwell

Another picture of the main VH and Z relay harness side by side

Picture of the additional connector on the Z's EFI harness on the RH side footwell - cut this off the Z's harness as you'll need this later.

Picture of the firewall harness grommet. You'll want to slice the side as it will be a lot harder to feed wires through it intact. The slice will be taped later so there's no worries there.

Feed the wires through the grommet one by one - a pair of needlenose pliers are very helpful for this.

When you're done feeding the wires it'll look something like this

If you're running a pre-94 ECM do not run the fan/sub-fan relay coil wires (2 wires) into the car. These will end up on the thermo-switch in the front by the radiator. This will allow you to continue to run the factory Z fan relays.

OMG - this looks like a freekin mess - it actually much better than it looks. Make sure you solder and heat shrink your joints. If you're not comfortable soldering you may also choose to crimp the wires (that's how the factory harness joins wires)

The harness after it got wrapped - looking much better now

Close up of the foot well connector as part of the new harness

After the grommet I used a factory vinyl sleeve to protect the wires it's not fully taped up as I ran out of tape (as can be evidenced by the empty roll by the harness).

This is the oil-pressure sending unit for the pressure gauge in the car. It's on the RH side engine harness - as the oil pressure sensor is on the LH side on the VH, this wire will need to be cut and extended to reach.

That's all I've got for now.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Anyone have a water pump pulley from 94? (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 10:16 PM 5/28/2008

Now I don't want to post my how to. Yours looks so much more organized. Mine was on my livingroom floor. Tile of course.

The extra foot at least, can be filled in the area above the ecu, and get cover on. I put more in the car, to shorten it in the bay.



Post Title: Injectors & Update
Posted by: npez at 3:15 PM 5/29/2008

So I called Z1 motorsports to ask if they could exchange for newer rotary injectors and to my delight they said yes - the reason I was delighted is that while the injectors are still new in the box, I placed the original order 2 years ago! They also lowered the restocking fee to 10%

So I ordered the newer style Nismos which are also less expensive as well as the orings for them and ended up picking up the HICAS eliminator kit from them as well.

As an added bonus I found out the new style injectors while called 555s actually flow at 615cc! This eliminates the need for me to increase the base fuel pressure as I'll have enough headroom for these to run at less than 80% duty cycle @ 600-650HP (Phase 2B of the project).

I got a big box with 60 lbs of "turbo stuff" delivered today (It's like Christmas time in May!), so I will go open the box later and see what everything looks like. I'll try to post some pictures later.

That's about it for now.....

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Nistune Question
Posted by: npez at 1:39 AM 5/30/2008

I looked everywhere on the site and there is not one place with an e-mail contact, a contact us page, or telephone #!

Does anyone have any idea how to contact these folks? Also being they're outside the US has anyone within the US ordered Nistune and if so were there any duties due for the product?

Please advise.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 6:47 AM 5/30/2008

http://www.nistune.com/ordering.htm

On that page there is a link for "enquiries@nistune.com"

Just remember, you will need to use an emulator like an Ostrich to use NisTune with a VH ECU.



Post Title: Re: Nistune Question (SuperHatch)
Posted by: npez at 9:28 AM 5/30/2008

Yes I know on the Ostrich2 - I was looking at their site and they have a bundle of tunerpro, etc. with ostrich. It seemed like Nistune had a lot more features to make tuning a little easier. Now I need to justify the extra cost compared to the features - so I need to do some more homework.

Thanks again bud.

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 5:01 PM 5/30/2008

"Hi Shane

You will only need to purchase the Moates Ostrich 2 emulator from http://www.moates.net and our software ($208AUD including paypal to orders@nistune.com)

You are able to perform live tuning using the emulator, and maptrace/guages are provided from the consult port

Our Type 2 boards doesnt support VH45DE so emulation is the only option available, but works about the same within our software

You can load in any BIN you want to your emulator via NIStune and go with that

regards
Matt"

I'm still a little unclear how it will work. For instance, are we actually editing the bin from their software? How does their software know what addresses are used on this ECU? I'm also not sold on the expense for what you get. By just getting the Ostrich 2 and some free software you can do real time tuning. I guess the only real advantage I can see is that you can do the map trace and tuning all from one program, assuming you edit the bin from Nistune. I guess I need to send them another email and ask...

Modified by qsiguy at 6:12 PM 5/30/2008



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 5:25 PM 5/30/2008

Shane,

This if from their ordering page:
"All orders must have an vehicle name, model, year and ECU part number
Part numbers are 23710-xxxxx and / or Axx-xxx-xxx as pictured below.
This is so we know what ROM image to put in your board.

We do not have all ROM images. Some might need to be downloaded from your stock factory ECU using a CONSULT cable and then sent to us for programming"

Not sure how this image interfaces with Ostrich as I believe moates requires the same info when you order. It is clear as day though that they have a picture of the ECM and the ostrich HW interconnected on the website. Let me know what you find out and I'll inquire as well and report back. I hope this helps, I'm a noob when it comes to the specifics of engine management - I'm a quick study though .

Please advise.

Thanks,
Nick.

Modified by npez at 8:46 PM 5/30/2008



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: ultrapulse at 11:49 PM 5/30/2008

Thanks,
Nick.

Post Title: Re: NisTune (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 12:46 AM 5/31/2008

I started reading the NisTune manual and this thing is an integration "gem" - I'm really thinking of buying it. I think our answer on "how they do it" with the Ostrich2 lies in this screen shot from the manual. If you look at all the individual components this single tool integrates it is trully amazing. I agree with you, just glancing at the other tools, that all function can be collectively performed across the various tools, the "niche" of NisTune appears to be integrating everything into one place.

Here's the screen shot:

I am really close to just "biting the bullet" and buying NisTune with Ostrich2 and calling it a day. I'll sleep on it and make the final decision tomorrow.

Hope this info helps.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: Carl H at 10:30 PM 6/1/2008

Nick.



Post Title: It is tight-tight-tight
Posted by: npez at 11:29 PM 6/1/2008

I decided to sit the engine in the car today as craigztoyz has been held up with some other stuff. I bolted the transmission and trans-mount, lowered the sway bar, centered the motor to the engine bay and leveled it. Looking at it, it would seem to me that offset motor mounts may be more practical than modifying the crossmember. The pedestal only seems to be about an inch off.

Quick question - should the motor be completely level or is it customary to have a few degrees tilt toward the sump?

ok - back to the space issue. Looking at the space it is unbelievably tight. Just a quick glance at the top, it would appear that high-mount turbos behind the headlight are not do-able (at least with my turbos, and if I want the hood to close). Low mount in the rear by the downpipes may have been an option, but the steering rack precludes this location as well. So all that's left is to mount them in the nose (where the airbox typically is), or with some mods mount then where the OEM intercoolers were and go with an FMIC.

For the nose, I think I can have a bracket made to bolt the turbos to the lower member in front of the radiator and condender. Then do a Doolz like setup for the intake and mount 1 real MAF and a dummy MAF. For exhaust plumbing I can run the pipes on the sides of the radiator (there's about 3-1/2" on each side (I only need 2" for the inlet side and 2.5" for the exhaust side of the turbo) where the intake plumbing ran before and use flex pipe to allow the motor to move (torque) independently of the turbos that will be fixed to the body of the car. If I clock the compressor side of the turbo I should be able to run the plubling to the OEM intercoolers and have the plumbing utilize existing intercooler plumbing openings.

The only thing that concerns me is *heat*. Do you think if I use a turbo beenie bag or coat the turbine side of the turbo to drop the temps by 50%, that the heat will be manageable? Should I have concerns over cooling system efficiency or A/C efficiency for that mater (the condenser is right there as well)? Being there will be air coming in through the "mouth" on the bumper, will this have any noticable effect on cooling the turbos and/or helping with heat dissipation?

I know drag cars have this kind of setup, but my car will be a GT street car - while they only worry about a 1/4 mile, I need to worry about a 100 mile drive if I choose to go for a long drive. Does anyone have any experience and/or knowledge with this type of setup?

Also one last question - I don't have a Q45 MAF - I do have my TT MAF; does anyone see any challenges to using the TT MAF instead of the q45 one? I know it's about 72mm (actually about 3" across) compared to the 90mm Q45 one, but I'll be using it initially on its own, but shortly after I make sure my engine is running, it will be part of a doolz type setup. My understanding is that the TT MAF is good to about 550WHP. I believe with some minor rewiring the electronics should be pretty similar.

Your feedback as always is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Nick.

P.S. I'll take some pictures tomorrow and post them so you can get a visual of what I see.


Modified by npez at 11:55 PM 6/1/2008



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 4:15 AM 6/2/2008

Thanks for the feedback. That's essentially what I did (mounted the trans/transmount and that helped with front/back alignment; for side/side I centered it to the engine bay. As I'm not working with the oil pan on (craigztoyz has mine; I've added a wood board across the cross-member to sit the engine) so I am doing measurements from the oilpan flange.

The level I mentioned is because I had read somewhere that some engines have a few degree angle towards the sump (so on a stock VH it would tilt just a few degrees from back->front). But I'm not sure if that applies to the VH motor.

I agree with the oil filter - there's only about 3/8" on that side and another 3/8" on the alternator side. Also the A/C fitting receptacles on the compressor barely clear the front crossmember, but I think that'll be ok as I will be having custom lines made.

Thanks again.

Nick.



Post Title: Re: (Carl H)
Posted by: npez at 8:27 AM 6/2/2008

Thanks for the feedback. Yes I saw the option in the Nistune manual - IIRC it seems it's as simple as a drop box (I think they had the Mustang Cobra one in the example) and the rest is done by the program - that's pretty fantastic.....

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: SuperHatch at 8:47 AM 6/2/2008

Thanks for the feedback - it (as well as Ostrich2) has become a "father's day suggestion" to my wife.....

Thanks again,
Nick.



Post Title: What I was thinking about with sidemount turbos
Posted by: npez at 4:27 PM 6/2/2008

This setup would require the removal (or relocation) of the carbon canister - are there any challenges with doing this (removal versus relocation) from an emissions perspective? Also if the turbos are higher than the drains on the pan, I shouldn't need a scavenging pump - is my thinking correct?

Please advise and thanks.

Nick.

P.S. Also notice the plastic under-fender liners on the exhaust side of the turbo - they're not melted
P.S.S. And for some of you that may notice this the car is twin-turbo *and* supercharged (check out the pulley on top). It's dyno'd at 1300rwtq and over 1200rwhp! This is something new turbonetics and a tuner are working on.

Modified by npez at 7:15 PM 6/2/2008



Post Title:
Posted by: Carl H at 5:50 PM 6/2/2008

I'll post some pics here now and you can see the height.

Thanks again,
Nick.



Post Title: Photos of motor and turbo position for side-mount
Posted by: npez at 7:34 PM 6/2/2008

Top View - Engine in the car (yes that is a seatbelt my engine leveler chains weren't long enough)

Top View RH Side Clearances

Top View LH Side Clearances

Top View Engine Front RH

Top View Engine Front Middle and LH

Underside RH Side

Underside A/C Compressor Closeup - the lines will be very close to the front of the crossmember

Underside LH Side (P/S Pump not installed)

Underside - Trans-end LH Side

Underside - Trans-end RH Side

Very Temporary Test of sidemount turbo position

Temporary Test of sidemount turbo position - the tab on the 8 o clock it where the plastic under fender liner fastens - the turbo will clear.

Another view - the air inlet of the turbo is flush with the bumper support flange. I think a 90 degree elbow will allow the air filer to sit behind the bumper in the area where the oem airbox used to be.

That's all I've got. If anyone has an answer on the carbon canister removal, this will help in deciding if this location will be a go or no-go. Any suggestions you may have are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: mikeLce2722 at 9:04 PM 6/2/2008

Thanks for the pics of the a/c! I was wondering if it would fit and now I'm relieved that once I get my cooling issues solved I can kick back on long highway drives in some nice cold frothy air!!!



Post Title: Re: (mikeLce2722)
Posted by: Chrispy300 at 4:54 AM 6/3/2008

I'd be quite worried having my turbo's that close to the ground with exposed compressor wheels like that

But love the idea, it's got me thinking now...

Do you think that would be room for a decent size single turbo next to the block anywhere?

Similar to this maybe?

This is what I am looking at doing to my VH once it's in and working. I'll probably be flicking the aircon and possibly the PS (maybe go a SW20 electric pump, not sure yet and my arms are a bit skinny ) so I will have a bit of room to spare.




Post Title: Re: Photos of motor and turbo position for side-mount (npez)
Posted by: SuperHatch at 7:47 AM 6/3/2008

Maybe you could mark the crossmember where the AC lines will be an issue and notch it a bit there too, just for peace of mind. Also, where do you get custom AC lines made? It's something I've never done before, but if I put my other VH in my Z, I'd need to do the same thing.



Post Title: Re: (T45)
Posted by: npez at 9:40 AM 6/3/2008

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

What's a carbon canister? Maybe that's what went to the fuel sized line that's plugged up on my drivers side wheel well? Hmmm, could be...

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

Thanks for the pics of the a/c! I was wondering if it would fit and now I'm relieved that once I get my cooling issues solved I can kick back on long highway drives in some nice cold frothy air!!!

You're welcome.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (Chrispy300)
Posted by: npez at 9:59 AM 6/3/2008

Quote, originally posted by Chrispy300 »

Going to have room for air filters? I'd be quite worried having my turbo's that close to the ground with exposed compressor wheels like that

Quote, originally posted by Chrispy300 »

But love the idea, it's got me thinking now... Do you think that would be room for a decent size single turbo next to the block anywhere? This is what I am looking at doing to my VH once it's in and working. I'll probably be flicking the aircon and possibly the PS (maybe go a SW20 electric pump, not sure yet and my arms are a bit skinny ) so I will have a bit of room to spare.

Not sure if you can do something that big on the sides - there's room but not that much room for turbos of this size. You may be able to fit some small twins. Plus on the layout in the pictures you showed you would have to sacrifice some accessories or go electric with them as you mentioned. If you could relocate the P/S and A/C to somewhere else or eliminate them altogether, it would open up the bottom part of the motor to do stuff. I just didn't want to go that route as electric A/C necessitates R134a and I would have to re-engineer my A/C to have the 134a work properly (larger condenser, mods in the orifice tube in the EVAP core, etc.) - I'm planing to keep mine R12. As far as P/S it's wait and see if the factory one will clear, otherwise I'll be addressing alternatives.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Photos of motor and turbo position for side-mount (SuperHatch)
Posted by: npez at 10:07 AM 6/3/2008

Thanks for the feedback and you're welcome. I will start looking for a scavenging pump at Summit/Jegs. I think I may notch the rail a bit as you recommended as the A/C hose fittings are a little larger than the mounting flange on the A/C compressor and they will most likely hit.

As far as A/C lines it took me a long time of calling different A/C shops to find one that does hose rebuilds *and* hard lines. The particular one I found in Houston does it for hot rods and things. The guy told me for around $400 he can fabricate all new hardlines and hoses. I will need to bring him the car and everything will be custom made to fit properly. I also found another place that they can make the hoses and hardlines if I bring them a template. Regardless of the option I choose, I may have the guy build the lines and then I can take a picture with measurements and post them for others to have something to work off of.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Photos of motor and turbo position for side-mount (npez)
Posted by: SuperHatch at 10:13 AM 6/3/2008

Nick,

From what I've read here: http://s95014253.onlinehome.us/63104/6901.html

You should be fine without the CC.



Post Title: Re: Photos of motor and turbo position for side-mount (SuperHatch)
Posted by: npez at 10:35 AM 6/3/2008

We'll see - but I don't have a problem helping out.....

Thanks again,
Nick.

P.S. Do you happen to have a spare 94 water pump pulley? I've been looking around and even sent an e-mail to a person that had helped out another member, but I haven't been able to find anything. The pulley on mine is from a 93 and the offsets are off due to the water pump being shorter on the pre-94s



Post Title: Re: (SuperHatch)
Posted by: npez at 10:37 AM 6/3/2008

Great read! Thanks for locating this. So I'm assuming the 93 ECM shouldn't throw any fits with the CC missing?

Please advise and thanks again.

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 10:38 AM 6/3/2008

Here are links to a couple I've used.
http://www.pirtekusa.com/
http://www.granberry.com/

FYI



Post Title: Re: Photos of motor and turbo position for side-mount (npez)
Posted by: SuperHatch at 11:01 AM 6/3/2008

Thanks Nick, I'll be keeping my eye out for it...

Quote, originally posted by npez »

P.S. Do you happen to have a spare 94 water pump pulley? I've been looking around and even sent an e-mail to a person that had helped out another member, but I haven't been able to find anything. The pulley on mine is from a 93 and the offsets are off due to the water pump being shorter on the pre-94s

I saw your post and unfortunately I only have 1 pulley, no spare. I'm not using it right now, but there's a good chance I'll need it someday and I don't want to part with it... sorry.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: SuperHatch at 11:03 AM 6/3/2008

Correct, your 93 should have no issues. Same goes for your 94 VH ECU...



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: SuperHatch at 11:05 AM 6/3/2008

Thanks for the heads up! It's good to know there are other options out there...



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 11:25 AM 6/3/2008

That's what I looked at originally (hydraulic shops), and the one here that I found that would do it (very small job for most) will do the p/s hardlines and hoses for me, but weren't equiped to do the a/c lines; something to do with the ends they use for industrial hydraulics (tube farell) versus my ends for the A/C.

That's the problem I kept running into until a hydraulics guy (that couldn't do the job) filled me in on the differences and recommended a place that would. Thanks for providing these references though it's always good to have them.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Cooling Fan Thermo switch thread pitch
Posted by: npez at 12:22 PM 6/3/2008

I'm looking at this adapter from Z1 motorsports (http://www.z1motorsports.com/p...=2822)for the thermo switch (I'm trying to keep the 2 stage aspect of this going and keep it as clean as possible, by using my Z's fan/sub-fan relays). Does anyone know the pitch of the threads? 1/8" NPT (27) or 1/8" BSPT(28)? I'm trying to figure this out so they can ship me this with my 8 injectors/orings. Please advise.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: Carl H at 3:17 PM 6/3/2008

Please advise.....

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: Carl H at 5:10 PM 6/3/2008

Thanks for the feedback. I hadn't seen this before - and it looks very cool. As I am looking at around $100 for the adapter and the sensor, and I found the HKS for $174 so far, and it will piggy-back off the ECT sensor. I think the extra $74 are going to be well worth it. I noticed it does do the 2-stage function on 1 fan (which really doesn't matter as the SPAL radiator fan and the low speed winding on the condenser fan will come on together off one relay) and then the second stage will put the condernser fan on high-speed off the second relay.

So I think this will fit the bill perfectly. I'll look around a little more and see if that's the best price I can find, and probably go with the HKS fan controller even though it's a little more cost - it's still a better value and simplifies things further.

Thanks again bud....

Nick.



Post Title: Oil Scavenging pump Question
Posted by: npez at 3:29 PM 6/4/2008

I've read a variety of posts on the internet (ranging from electric oil pumps, differential fluid pumps, to a moroso fuel pump that's all metalic inside), but wanted to get some recommendations here.

Please advise.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: Carl H at 5:23 PM 6/4/2008

Shane, out of curiosity what are you using in your rear mount setup?

Thanks again for all the help.

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 11:47 PM 6/4/2008

Here is mine.




Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 5:18 PM 6/5/2008

Thanks for the feedback. BTW, on the needle valve you're using, you mentioned using it as you were worried that you would blow the seals on the turbo. Are you "drawing" from the turbo's suction side in your setup? I was under the impression that sucking oil would at worse create a vacuum in the center cartridge, which would at worse draw more oil. I would've thought the restrictor on the oil inlet line on the turbo would prevent this sort of thing. Please advise, as I need to take the needle valve under consideration if this is not the case.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Update - Engine Mounts Complete!
Posted by: npez at 1:37 AM 6/6/2008

Just a quick update. Craigztoyz came over this afternoon and after a lot of work we got the crossmember modified and the engine back in and mounted. Everything lined up perfectly and we did the cruise control bracket mod as well. After this process it appears that the factory power steering pump will not fit (sway bar clearance issue). Thinking about electric p/s from MR2 or similar - if anyone has any other recommendations for this I'd love to hear them.

I've got to do some cleanup work and re-spray the cross-member, and then I'll take pictures and post. Sometime next week I should be receiving the 555cc injectors, orings, and hicas eliminator and will install the hicas eliminator the rest will wait for another couple of weeks or so.

The turbos are going to end up in the nose of the car as it is impossible to get plumbing to run the air filters from the turbos in a sidemount orientation (the turbos have 4" inlets so there is no cast small radius elbow to accomodate the restriction). So with that said, I will design a bracket to hang them and then will tow the car sometime next week to have the manifolds and exhaust system done. Once complete (this will actually take 1-2 weeks for the full exhaust with tie ins to the factory exhaust) I will have a 2.5 inch turbo bypass pipe with a turbo inlet flange on one side and a 5-bolt flange on the other fabricated, so I can remove the turbos and run the car initially in normally aspirated form.

During this time, I will try to order the rest of the parts I need in order to get the car running (fan controller, water pump pulley, hoses, belts, etc.) as well as some phase 2A parts (scavenging pump, nistune, ostrich2) with the phase 2a parts needing to wait until after father's day.

That's the plan at least. I'll keep you updated with the progress being made and will post pictures when I take some more.

Thanks again to Craig for all the hard work, a very long night, and a job well done!

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 1:54 AM 6/6/2008

How I "tuned" my oil system was leave off the drain hose from the pump but the feed line was complete with the needle valve closed. I started the motor and slowly opened the needle valve and monitored oil flow out of the turbo. I had the oil drain going into a 2 liter pop bottle. It didn't take opening the valve very far to get a steady flow at idle. Oil pressure is pretty low at idle and I wanted to set it up to have low but steady flow at idle. At cruise I have about 70-80 PSI of oil pressure so there is much more oil feeding the turbo when the RPMs are up. I have never noticed any smoke from oil in the turbo and flow is always good when I have checked it (which I do often).



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 3:23 AM 6/6/2008

EDIT: I just remembered something about how STS does their scavenge pumps. I can't confirm this but it looks like they use a Hobbs pressure switch to activate a warning light or something if the pump fails. The Hobbs switch is just before the oil pump in all their installs. If the pump stops the pressure in the line between the pump and turbo should go up rapidly. I think I will add one of these

Here's a pump that would work too from Summit Racing, it's a tranny/diff oil cooler pump.
http://store.summitracing.com/...w=sku

Modified by qsiguy at 10:15 AM 6/6/2008



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 9:17 AM 6/6/2008

Thanks for the information. So the needle valve is on the turbo's oil inlet side and is used as the restrictor. I must've misunderstood that it was on the return side and hence my original question. Sorry for the confusion.

So you ended up teeing off of the sandwitch plate versus the stock oil pressure sending unit location?

Please advise and thanks again for all the help.....

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 5:07 PM 6/6/2008

Here's a shot of the pressure sending unit and needle valve and the oil filter sandwich plate.

Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 5:11 PM 6/6/2008

Awesome on the ostrich2 as well. Let me know how it works out - I'm waiting until after father's day before I go buying anything just in case I get something from the kids.

Thanks again.

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: Carl H at 6:25 PM 6/6/2008

Please advise.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: Carl H at 10:14 PM 6/6/2008

Nick, It was fun, tiring, but fun. got home about 6:30 am, flying about 95. I was up 26 hours in the end, but all worthwhile.

I am very happy with the mounts, and sure that even with what you are throwing at it, (Guys, to see the compressors on these turbo's in hand, DAMN) I am sure that the mounts are not going to be a problem. Wish I had brought a small grinder (1 1/2") to get it really cleaned up in the small areas. But oh well, I can see how much pride you take in that beautiful car, and am sure you will enjoy the time spent.

On the car- WOW. the hood has never been off the car- factory seal on mounts. very clean, and sweet exhaust tips. rims n tires, are a really nice choice.

Garage- Very uncomfortable, horrible working, conditions, Yeah right. Funny I am in there grinding away at 2 am, windows open, a/c on, relaxing, standing looking at the mounts at eye height. Agh to be so lucky...
and most of all, on having a wife, who is ok with all this, and buys you that lift, and that was before you blew the motor. Lucky, and the girls of course, adorable. Thanx again, and well, sorry my son is a handful.

This is going to be a very wicked car. I can't wait to take it for a spin.

Thanx again, for the fun, and I will be in touch later in weekend. Craig



Post Title: Re: Update - Engine Mounts Complete! (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 10:35 PM 6/6/2008

Thanks again brother - I'm glad you made it home safe; and thank you for the compliments. No worries on the welds, I'll clean everything up before I spray the cross-member and take some photos.

I liked your son as well - definitely full of energy! BTW, when it's all done you can come down and take her for a spin - bring a change of underwear I've got a feeling that I'm going to have traction issues when it's all said and done, but hey that's just another challenge to overcome - maybe some 60-80 treadwear tires will begin to help over the 220s that I've got on there now.....

Thanks again for the awesome work - and it was nice to finally meet you in person....

Nick.



Post Title: Re: (Carl H)
Posted by: npez at 10:42 PM 6/6/2008

Thanks a bunch for locating the part for me.

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 12:35 AM 6/9/2008

Please advise.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Quick Update
Posted by: npez at 10:28 PM 6/11/2008

My friend is coming over tomorrow so we can weld some brackets to mount the turbos in the nose and also modify the P/S bracket to get the VH P/S pump situated. My oilpan should be arriving from Craig's tomorrow so I'll pull the motor sometime on Friday to put it in, swap the mazworx adapter, clean up and paint the crossmember (I'll post PICs of this) and then put everything back together again.

I also located some K&N filters that stand about 4.5 inches from flange to tip with 4" diameter inlets. This scenario allows the turbos to be mounted in the nose and the front of the filters to clear the bumper support. Once we get the brackets fabbed, I can finally flatbed the car over to the exhaust place to have the manifolds, etc. TIG'd up and all the cross-connects to the factory exhaust system completed.

I'll post some pictures once we have the turbos mounted up, and then of the manifolds once they're done.

Nick.



Post Title: Re: Quick Update (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 11:09 PM 6/11/2008

Anyway after my little spending spree I think I better go to bed before I get myself in trouble with my wife

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 3:04 AM 6/12/2008

You have a long way to go. Save the pennies and don't let the ol lady know what's goin down in the air conditioned man room.



Post Title: Re: (T45)
Posted by: npez at 8:43 AM 6/12/2008

Anyway, I had budgeted $11K to get me through to the end of phase 2b. With Phase 1 being around $4K, Phase 2A adding another $3K, and Phase 2B adding another $4K. These #s were based on me having a lot of the parts needed already (i.e. Nismo Injectors, RPS segmented flywheel & RPS clutch, Howe racing radiator & SPAL fan, etc.). I still think I will need to add a 15-20% contingency just to be safe though. I still think that for the money you cannot beat this value. Before starting to go down this route, I had estimates done by Z1 and SGP racing to have a VG30DETT "built" with everything needed to produce around 550RWHP - the quotes came in at around $14K; so for a little less money I'm going to end up with more HP and more importantly a torque curve the 6 cyl will envy.

My wife is *very* cool with everything - she just likes to understand costs so there are no surprises. After all she's the one that manages all the day to day finances in the household

I'm now starting to get anxious to get this thing done so I can start it up..... I think we're getting really close to being there.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: Mettler at 1:43 PM 6/12/2008

Post Title: Re: (Mettler)
Posted by: T45 at 4:40 AM 6/14/2008

Quote, originally posted by Mettler »

Hahah Nick, along with the better torque curve and more HP, you're also going to have a weight reduction over using the VG30DETT

Make that a massive one too!!! The VG30DE weighed a lot compared to the VH, I could tell just pushing it around on the engine hoist. I can't imagine the VG30DETT weighing in any less than 150-200 lbs more than the VH.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 10:19 AM 6/14/2008

Thanks for the feedback. I'll wait to hear from you until I go ahead and purchase (assuming this isn't my father's day present). What type of problems are you seeing?

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 2:35 PM 6/14/2008

Isn't Nistune capable of communicating with the ostrich directly as well?



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 9:53 AM 6/15/2008

Happy Father's Day! My father's day brought me an Ostrich 2.0 (and you're right other than the Moates sticker and the invoice there was nothing else from an instructions perspective - I think I read some instructions online though), so if there's anything you would like for me to test on my setup (as a cross-check, etc.) please let me know. I still need to piece my car together enough to be able to get to this, but when it's done, I'll be available to lend a hand.

I'm also going to call NisTune and ask them a lot of questions about the Ostrich 2.0 integration with NisTune *before* I buy that product. My plan is to piece the car back together, start it with the factory ECM, then install the Ostrich 2.0 and run the stock maps from the Ostrich. Once everything is working I will begin to "tweak" using NisTune.

Just let me know how I can help.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: Carl H at 9:56 AM 6/15/2008

The CD is *packed* with stuff. From the documentation (hence no paper instructions) to TunerproRT software, USB drivers, etc. Some of this stuff you've mentioned that you already have, but if you like I can copy the CD somewhere where you can download it.

Let me know if you want to do that.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 1:11 AM 6/16/2008

I plugged my Ostrich 2 in, laptop only, as the car isn't ready to receive it yet. Like you I can upload the bin to it, compare, etc. successfully. Out of curiosity, did you start off with the bins that mettler had posted like 2 years ago? I tracked my ECU down based on that nico thread to the 64u01 bin. I am also using the bin definition that was included in the bundle of files. Do you have an updated xdf file for Tunerpro? The one I have seems to have some items with "?" marks in them and I didn't know if there was something newer you found and are using.

On where it writes to on the chip, does the hex editor in TunerPro help any? Mine shows data from 0000-7FFF for a total of 32K. I didn't see an offset setting either. I'm still a couple of weeks before I am in a position to attempt to start the car, but I thought I'd get started with this to accelerate the learning curve.

An interesting thing is that Nistune has ECU lookup files - if one doesn't exist you can create your own - Much of the information can be gotten from the bin definition file. Some of the interesting parameters you can define are:

OFFSET=&H<address>Specifies the memory address offset that the ROM image starts at in hexadecimal. For the following ECU
types:
16KB ROM (27C128) = &H8000 (ECU mirrors this at &HC000 - ROM vector table)
32KB ROM (27C256/Early 16 bit) = &H8000
64KB ROM (Late 16 bit) = &H0000
LENGTH=&H<size>Specifies the memory address size of the ROM image in hexadecimal. For the following ECU types:
16KB ROM (27C128) = &H4000
32KB ROM (27C256/Early 16 bit) = &H8000
64KB ROM (Late 16 bit) = &H10000
CONSULT=&H<address>Location of the Nissan consult table for register access
etc.
etc.

I think Nistune may make it easier to get Ostrich2 to work, but that's me speaking as a noob as I haven't been exposed to much of this until now.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 11:13 AM 6/16/2008

I have a bunch of stuff for the ECU an no the BIN I'm starting with was not one I found on the web. I'm using my latest tune that I've been using on my car. I have tried a few others tho to make sure I didn't just have a corrupt file. I even tried stacking two identical bins but it appears to only let you load a 32K file as the hex file wasn't the same as the stacked BIN I uploaded.

I have tried various offsets while writing to the Ostrich and it didn't help. I don't believe the problem is related to writing to the Ostrich, that part seems to work fine. I have tried Tunerpro RT as well as Emutil from the Tunerpro site. No luck with either. I can upload to the Ostrich and then pull the bin back off using the Moates Burn1 and view the hex code and it appears right except for some code from 0x200 to 0x7FFF. From 0x8000 and up it looks like it should.

Communication is fine from computer to Ostrich, the problem is the ECU speaking to the Ostrich. Hopefully I can work out a solution with Moates assistance. I will be very disappointed if I can't get this working.

I assume Moates can send the files or a new CD but if it's convenient I'd love to get a zip file of that CD.

You've got mail...



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 12:36 PM 6/16/2008

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: Carl H at 1:58 PM 6/16/2008

Have you come to any conclusions on the Ostrich2? Please advise.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 11:24 PM 6/23/2008

What's not good is pulling your chip/socket more than once. The tiny traces have a tendency to pull off the PCB during desoldering. I had to repair 3 separate traces that had broken, fortunately I found all the problem traces and got it working.

Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 12:56 AM 6/24/2008

That is fantastic news (other than the traces breaking)! Let me know what you find out once in the car!

Thanks again for all your hard work with this....

Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 11:19 PM 6/24/2008

Awesome!



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 10:38 AM 6/25/2008

Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: SuperHatch at 10:33 AM 7/2/2008

Yeah I've been trying to get a hold of him for the past 3 weeks - not answering his phone, no answer to e-mail, nothing. I hope firstly that he's ok, but if he is I hope he didn't screw me out of a modded oil pan. I paid for his mazworx adapter in return for the fabrication work. I've gotten everything but my modded oil pan back. However, without it I'm completely stuck. A new one is $455 + cost to mod it which I supposedly already paid for. I suppose I can track down a used one, but that still leaves me with the modification work that needs to be done.

I'm so pissed I can't see straight. Last person that screwed me like this ended up fleeing to mexico (and jump his bail and bench warrant) as I used some channels to get him criminally prosecuted for theft. I hope it doesn't get to that because Craig seemed like a nice, trustworthy guy.

We'll have to see and I hope I'm completely wrong on all of this.

Nick.




Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: SuperHatch at 1:10 PM 7/2/2008

Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on that. I'm going to give Craig until Friday to make things right, but after that I have to go into contingency mode. If you are in the mood for some fabrication work maybe we can work something out where you re-mod the pan - it's a front sump arrangement so it should be less work than doing a rear sump. Let me know if you're interested.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 3:44 PM 7/2/2008

What kind of modifications were you having him do to the pan? I may be able to help out as well. I've got a new TIG that I'm trying to get some practice with.



Post Title: Re: (tmorgan4)
Posted by: npez at 4:08 PM 7/2/2008

Thanks for the offer to help. What I'm trying to do is basically change the bottom of the pan as it goes to the sump from back to front so it clears the cross-member/steering rack. This allows the engine to be sat lower versus a rear sump as you don't have to worry about the pickup tube going from front to back. Craig posted a thread regarding what he was doing here: http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/330109. Enlarging the kickouts on the pan for additional capacity would be great as well though. Now he did bring me the moded pickup tube when he came down to Houston so I'm in good shape there.

I am open to a rear sump setup if that'll be less work because it's been done before but I really think the front sump will be significantly less work. Dunno.

I hope the description I gave makes sense along with the pictures.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 7:40 AM 7/3/2008

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: Chrispy300 at 2:49 AM 7/4/2008

Who would skip the country over $1k? I'm sure he's not that hard up he needs to con you into buying him an adaptor and then pinches your sump...

I'd be more concerned for his health than where he is...



Post Title: Re: (Chrispy300)
Posted by: T45 at 5:54 AM 7/4/2008

I agree. Besides, I've seen more people "wenzeled" over the years and I would NOT want to screw someone over the internet. Almost worse than screwing them in person!!!

Post Title: Re: (T45)
Posted by: npez at 9:47 AM 7/4/2008

I agree with both of you that's why I said that I hope he's ok. Chrispy BTW the guy I mentioned that fled the country took a $4K deposit for materials on the garage work (which I ended up doing myself in the end out of disgust) so it wasn't chump change.

Like I said, it is very uncharacteristic of him to do something like this, but these are the only 2 viable scenarios. We'll see. You all have a happy and safe 4th of July weekend!

Thanks,
Nick.

Modified by npez at 8:01 PM 7/9/2008



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: Bart at 7:31 PM 7/4/2008

The bummer is on Saturday I dropped off another pan to have it modded and TIGd up so now I'll end up with 2 modded oil pans. I'll look at both and use the best one I suppose.

Now I'll be pulling the motor back out this weekend to finish installing the pan, and other tasks to put the car together enough, and will flatebed over to my guy locally to get the manifolds, etc. fabbed up next week. I hope to have the car back in 1-2 weeks, making it late July/1st week of August when it's up and running with the VH. I'll post pictures as soon as the fabbed parts start rolling in.

Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: SuperHatch at 6:50 AM 7/10/2008

Well I'm glad to see the problem got resolved. Let me know how things end up working out, and we're all here to help you out with any other hurdles you might come upon.



Post Title: Re: (SuperHatch)
Posted by: npez at 3:23 PM 7/10/2008

Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 5:07 PM 7/10/2008

Do you happen to know what grade stainless the stock manifolds are made from?



Post Title: Re: (tmorgan4)
Posted by: npez at 6:00 PM 7/10/2008

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 6:09 PM 7/10/2008

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 7:41 PM 7/10/2008

I'll let you know. I'm waiting on the one from Craig and then the other from the local fabricator. Whichever one fits the best on mine, I'll use. You're welcome to the other one. Remember though that both of these are front sump, so if you're running a rear sump, you'll also need a modded pickup.

Out of curiosity (though I think the front sump will work without issue) is anyone aware of what the GPM scavenging flowrate is on a belt driven pump in a dry sump system? I know they're "stacked" but I was just curious on the scavenging side. I was pondering the idea of a hybrid system, with the factory pump providing oil pressure and an electric pump serving the scavenging role. It would simplify the "packaging" of things if I needed to go that route and wouldn't have to go the traditional dry-sump route which would require I lose an accessory. Just curious.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (SuperHatch)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 9:57 PM 7/10/2008

I started my car shortly after getting back. Dealing with designing a PS system (cooler,belts, lines, mounts, pump) and just got that done, making my exhaust fit, and trying to make it ready for daily use tomoro. New radiator will not be here for 2 weeks, so can't really play. Had it running for a few seconds on a hollley pump, out of a spare tank. I just got online for first time in a month, gotta find how to bypass FPCU.

Hope all the builds are good. Now that I am back, going to get some TLC done and get some vids up.



Post Title: Re: (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 10:33 PM 7/10/2008

I know we spoke on the phone, but glad to see you online again..... I look forward to seeing the pan to see how everything is going to look as far as clearances. I'm going to pull the trans this evening to be one step closer to at least pulling the old mazworx adapter to return to Mark (he's been very patient).

While I'm in there I'll open up the crank opening a bit (carefully) to make room for the pilot bearing. I think I'm going to install my flywheel and clutch as well, so I can get those items off the shelf - the shelves are full of parts, as you saw when you came down, and I received a whole bunch more since you were here. I think I'll pull the motor tomorrow as I need to do that with the garage door open when working alone.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (craigztoyz)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 3:08 AM 7/11/2008

I thought i had to unhook a wire and jump it to the orange. Looking right now at wires on pump, to see what they are, but too tired to mess with any of it.

Thanx, craig Oh yeah, this thing gets a lot of attention with the engine polished and everything off that I could. I moved all the wiring to the back, and low, to hide it, and have all the lines hidden as much as I could.




Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 10:46 AM 7/11/2008

Nick,
as we spoke about on phone, I had to deal with a death, and then the house bs. when I got back we spoke. I didnt want to have to talk about it here, but with this post, thought I had to defend myself a bit. I sent you one pan, I have not got it back, but I did send you a 2nd pan, by backup pan. Fine with me, all good.

Oh yeah, This thing is sick to drive



Post Title: Re: (SuperHatch)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 10:48 AM 7/11/2008

Not a problem, but I read a reply like this and wonder how much info this kid has of the subject, and must defend myself.



Post Title: Re: (T45)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 10:55 AM 7/11/2008

Before buldging my hood, I had a lil over 1/8" clearance, but it closed. My pan sits 1" below the crossmember at lowest points, and clears the hood, and so does the intake plumbing.

After beating hood, have over an inch clearance.

things done- front sump, low as possible, had to put in recessed c channel in the sides of the crossmember to get the headers down that low(a 1/2" below unibody low,) shaved upper intake down to height of oval, no rubber gaskets between intakes, and it fits. Oh solid mounts to keep it there. Hood liner is gone of course, its inner frame too. Looks sick, sounds better. Nick you get that pan today?



Post Title: Re: (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 11:24 AM 7/11/2008

I think you misuderstood Steve's statement. The $455 was for a new pan from infiniti parts. I ended up getting another pan from my bud at the junkyard that was able to hook me up. Steve was offering one of his spare pans, not the labor to mod it.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 11:25 AM 7/11/2008

No I haven't because the mailman hasn't come by yet. I'll let you know when it arrives.....

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: SuperHatch at 12:02 PM 7/11/2008

Exactly

Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz »

Not a problem, but I read a reply like this and wonder how much info this kid has of the subject, and must defend myself.

"kid" ....Excuse me?




Post Title: Re: (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 1:22 PM 7/11/2008

Quote, originally posted by craigztoyz »

How and what did you do? All I did so far is the pink/black wire is connected to the black/pink wire from harness to harness. So the computer should trip the relay. Is that it? My car is n/a. Been up all night fabbing, and fine tuning a few things. Hoping that after I pass out here shortly, I will take it for a spin, coolant temp permitting. so far no fan, so that means no drive. I thought i had to unhook a wire and jump it to the orange. Looking right now at wires on pump, to see what they are, but too tired to mess with any of it. Thanx, craig Oh yeah, this thing gets a lot of attention with the engine polished and everything off that I could. I moved all the wiring to the back, and low, to hide it, and have all the lines hidden as much as I could.

You need to make sure Pink/Black is going to your fuel pump relay. This is the ground side of the coil which when grounded by the ECU closes the relay and then provides power to your fuel pump which is connected to this relay. The Pink/Light Blue and Green/Orange wires are for the FPCU which you said you don't want to use. If you have power/ground to the FP relay from the factory Z harness all you will need is the Pink/Black and everything should work. Let me know how it works out and I can help in troubleshooting if you need any help.

I also added you to the contributor list on the wiring cross reference, I must've had a brain fart. I guess that's what happens when you put these things together in the middle of the night.....

Nick.



Post Title: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and something special
Posted by: npez at 1:17 PM 7/19/2008

Oilpan Update
There was minimal warpage due to the pan being TIGd. Also you can see on the left hand side the enlarged kickout I had "grafted" in. All the internal infiniti factory baffling has been retained and the factory oil pickup clears properly. I also had a bong added for the turbo return lines.

EDIT: You will need to clearance the cross-member for this to work as I had to push the pan to vertical as far back as possible to clear the pickup. Nothing major just the flat "lip" on the front bottom of the cross-member - then reweld the seam (see pics)

Now it's still a front sump, but the completely vertical rise at the rear of the sump, the larger kickout and the positioning of pickup (nestled in the rear by the vertical rise), and the baffling inside the pan, should keep the pickup in oil even under spirited driving.

Power Steering Update
I looked at doing the mod to fit the stock Q pump. After looking at it some more and spending a couple of hours at my friend's junk-yard, I found something cool. The 1990 Nissan Maxima pump has a similar body but much smaller, a smaller pulley and the 2 back bolts for the rear VH45 bracket are a direct bolt on. The top front bracket doesn't work (it doesn't need to be cut out for clearance though), but the lower one will. No engine clearancing is required as there is a ton of space. The orientation of the lines are a little better too. So if you don't want to mod the brackets too much and want to create a lot of clearance, this option may be a good one for you. I've got some pics of the mounted pump so you can see the clearance created.

Flywheel/Mazworx Update
The replacement mazworx adapter that Mark sent out worked perfectly. Now I know there has been a lot of discussion on whether to use the flywheel spacer or not. Both sides of the arguement are correct and here's why. The N/A flywheel is smaller than the TT so if you're using an N/A flywheel then you're ok *without* the spacer. If you're using a TT flywheel, its a larger diameter flywheel and it will bind to the inside radius of the mazworx adapter. Using the spacer positions the flywheel perfectly in that case. I have given the flywheel dimensions to Mark and he may be updating the CNC configuration to increase the inside radius of the adapter so no spacer may be needed in the future.

Something Special
I can't let the cat out of the bag, but I had an idea that I'm working with Mazworx on that will make our lives a little easier with these swaps. They will prototype this part for me and then possibly commercialize it so it's available to others. Once I receive the part and make sure it does what I think it will, I will talk with Mark and post pictures.

Here are the pics
TT Flywheel Clearance with spacer

Power Steering Pump & Oil Pan

Clearancing of Cross-member

Sump in the bay

Sump to cross-member clearance (Seam will be welded next week when I take the car in)

I'm hoping to have the car buttoned up this weekend and in for the manifolds early next week.....

Thanks,
Nick.

Modified by npez at 3:50 PM 7/19/2008



Post Title: Re: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and so ... (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 8:57 PM 7/19/2008

Yeah, Like I had said, you can get the stock pickup to work, but only by cutting the front lip off the crossmember.

It is bung not Bong. Both are very useful and flow, but for different purposes. Very different.

I'm gonna guess, you are tring to make mounts on the VH to fit into the Z32, pretty easy to do.
Like the pics. You still haven't painted the mounts? Oxidation with your humidity.
Did you need to space the mounts, or did the other pan fit with the tolerences? Hood closes, and shuts?

Nice to see the update, gotta get the 3 of these locals up and out to play together.



Post Title: Re: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and so ... (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 9:43 PM 7/19/2008

I'm going to wait to paint everything all at once when I get the seam welded on the x-member next week. Good guess on the mounts, but that's not it - that is something that mostly everyone can do as you said. I will need to space the mounts maybe a 1/4 inch as we had talked about. I then will cut the gooseneck off the radiator pipe on the engine. Then we'll see if the hood closes properly.

I've been looking at Bart's setup and now I'm concerned about the strength of the insulator on the mount. The bottom bolt is somewhat skinny compared to the top, and I'm second guessing whether it will hold - I know the steel pads will, but the insulator will be another story. Not sure how the torque when the engine is running at 8-9psi will affect it. I know at 400RWHP with my Z motor and one of the Z engine mounts was broken and their bolts were pretty stout by comparison. I'll wait and see and go from there I suppose.

Anyway, I'm glad your build is going well, let me know how she runs when running on the new pump. Its' good to hear that making the common ground helped with the problem you were having.

Once we get the cars running we should all hook up and go for a cruise....

Thanks,
Nick.

Post Title: Re: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and so ... (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 10:10 PM 7/19/2008

Neighbor with a C6, just drove by, 20 ft behind, a friend in a new viper, guess they are going to play. O I cant wait to get this one's bugs worked out. Ordered a Griffen, 28 x 19, with fans, be here in a week. That should take car of the cooling.
Glad to hear its almost up and driving. Going n/a at all, or just boost now.



Post Title: Re: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and so ... (craigztoyz)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 11:17 PM 7/19/2008

Craig...good choice on the radiator size. Do you have room for a puller fan or are you going with pusher fans? I'm running a 28x17 Fluidyne radiator with a single 16" pusher fan (no shroud either) and it does a pretty damn good job of cooling the engine. Going a couple inches bigger with a more efficient fan setup would be even better.



Post Title: Re: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and so ... (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 11:18 PM 7/19/2008

I'm planning on starting it up N/A and driving it to make sure everything is working as it should. Before that happens though, I still need to design a custom front swaybar and mounting of it so it's coming in from the back to the front. I've posted a question on the 300ZX forum to find out what the factory sway bar rate is so I can match it. That's the last thing I will do, but I still need to get the manifolds/plumbing for the turbos fabbed, then send everything out to High Performance Coatings and get it and the turbo housings coated in HiperCoat Extreme. After all that's done (I think it'll all take about a month) I will then do the Ostrich2 install with Nistune and make sure everything is running properly with the modified ECM/Factory Tune. Only when all that is done will I start Phase 2A.

Phase 2A will include the install of all the parts I've already bought, are currently buying, or already have; the 555cc injectors, oil cooler and greddy sandwich adapter, scavenging pump, factory intercoolers/new plumbing, water injection, turbos, wastegates, BOV, etc. to get into boost for as much as the engine will tolerate (I hope 8-9 psig maybe 10) and of course tuning.

Depending on how the car "feels" after Phase 2A, will dictate how long I stay in 2A. If the car gets squirley and uncontrollable at that level of power, then 2B will need to address this before spending big $s on custom CP pistons, custom Pauter rods, etc. and turning the boost up to approximately 18psig.

We'll see, but I'm hoping in August to have all the parts back so I can run the car N/A. If all goes well, I should be under boost sometime by the end of September if I boogie.....

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and so ... (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 7:12 PM 7/20/2008

Sounds good, let me know whats up. If you arent going to use the pan/ let me know, Thanx, Craig



Post Title: Re: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and so ... (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 7:23 PM 7/20/2008

On the pan, I'm not going to use it at the moment (it'll go in my parts bin) but will keep it in reserve in case I need to go rear-sump.

Let me know if you find anything out on the swaybar and I'll do the same.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and so ... (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 7:31 PM 7/20/2008

Post Title: Re: Oil Pan, Power Steering, Flywheel/Mazworx Update, and so ... (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 7:53 PM 7/20/2008

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Sway bar rate
Posted by: npez at 12:18 AM 7/21/2008

Craig, if you're planning on shortenting the arms from ~14 inches currently to something that'll work (e.g. 9-10 inches), as there are clearance issues to contend with, there is no hollow bar of this diameter that will work. To give you an example the stock bar with 10 inch arms gives you a 519 lb/in rate (this will most likely bend your end-links or worse).

What will work is a 3/4 solid bar which will give you ~240 lb/in rate under the same scenario indicated above.

Just thought I'd pass this on.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Sway bar rate (npez)
Posted by: Chrispy300 at 3:45 AM 7/21/2008

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Sway bar rate (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 9:53 AM 7/21/2008

Later this week after a few 'break in miles' (breaking the tires loose is more like it) I plan to get it up, and start off with the SHO bars, solid's I have a 23mm, 24mm, 26mm, 28mm, all fit the space under back of eng, and are mountable to the frame, and endlinks, If none of them are useable, then I have 4 others from numerous cars to try. But I think that one of the SHO(Tauras SHO's FWD 90-95) ones will work well. Of course I am starting with the 23, although it should be too weak, not enough roll control. Building a street driver, not a racecar, so My 'Frankenstein' methods are ok by me.



Post Title: Re: Sway bar rate (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 11:17 AM 7/21/2008

That's cool. I did some more math as I took the factory pressed flat section where the endlinks bolt onto and measured the thickness of it and divided it by 2. This should give the wall thickness of the bar which according to that is .16 instead of my assumption of .095 and a rate of ~292 lb/in. So with that in mind the hollow bar will work at 1 inch diameter, same length as the stocker, and 10 inch arms. At 9 inch arms it'll be about 30% stiffer - similar to what the stillen stock replacement is.

Just some more info for you.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Sway bar rate (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 1:19 PM 7/22/2008

I can honestly say that if you're looking at plating Atlas Plating here in Houston has done an outstanding job thus far with my stuff (the pictures don't really provide the full effect). Each piece was first fully polished then chromed, then polished again for a mirror shine. They did the same with each individual fastener - you can actually see it in the washers/lock washers that are a single assembly with the bolt - each piece is like a mirror.

So here are some pics; I hope you enjoy them....

Thanks,
Nick.

Fuel Rails / Pressure Regulator/Damper / Injector Caps/Bolts and Hardware

Coolant Pipes / T-stat housing / Fittings / Bolts and Hardware

Closeup of T-stat housing

Lower Intake Runners / Bolts & Hardware




Post Title: Re: Finally making some visible progress (npez)
Posted by: kbflip02 at 6:55 PM 8/13/2008

Quote, originally posted by kbflip02 »

everything looks so shiny and purdy

Lookin good tho! I couldn't afford to throw money at the looks, will prob just get covers and manifold powder coated and leave it at that lol...

Very nice though man, you going for the show quality look?



Post Title: Re: (Mettler)
Posted by: npez at 8:35 PM 8/13/2008

As far as a show quality look, yes I want it to be clean and shiny with low maintenance. I may take it to some of the local shows but I'm not really going for trophys. Most of this stuff is for a show of one (me).

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: qsiguy at 10:09 PM 8/13/2008

All I sprang for when I had my motor apart was a few cans of brake cleaner to spray off the crap. Can't hardy see the motor with it back together anyway.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 11:03 PM 8/13/2008

I'm starting to get anxious now for all the parts to get done and/or arrive (I bought all new goods from infiniti to piece the top end together anything questionable was replaced (so I got new gaskets/seals/grommets/o-rings, knock sensors, ECT sensors for ECM & gauges, PCV valve, exhaust manifold gaskets, etc.) In the meantime I'm going to go and read up on Racelogics' traction control system as I think one of those is in my near future

I'll probably be contacting you (if it's ok with you) to chat when it's time to do the engine management stuff as I have the goods (Ostrich2 getting ready to buy Nistune), I just lack the complete knowledge to tune this thing

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: SuperHatch at 4:37 AM 8/14/2008

Lookin good!

Shocked you are throwing the bling on, But can understand why. I cant afford those ammenities, I just did the old fashioned elbow grease method, then on new motor, decided to go stock look, no shine.
Let me know when you have it together, we can go play.

Craig



Post Title: Some more parts came in today
Posted by: npez at 5:11 PM 8/14/2008

Thanks,
Nick.

Oilpan with HPC S02 oil-shedding dry film coating

Valve Cover HiperCoat 1300 degree Coating (I only took a picture of 1 as they're packed pretty well)

A couple of pictures of the turbo housings (hot side) - HiperCoat Extreme 2000 degree stable coating

Post Title: Re: Some more parts came in today (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 6:46 PM 8/14/2008

Nick, rather then the 45, I just made a entire step that rests atop the crossmember, allowing mor oil capacity. both ways help it flow down. I like tha oil shedding. I guess its like teflon?

nice stuff, hope it keeps the temps down.

craig



Post Title: Re: Some more parts came in today (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 10:00 PM 8/14/2008

That's cool - I guess both ways accomplish the end result for us front-sumpers. Yes the oil shedding coat is like teflon but does not retain heat inside the pan like teflon does - S02 allows it to radiate out while still having all the oil shedding benefits.

Ditto on the temps, I hope the coatings on the turbos will do as advertised and reduce the skin temp by 50% (900*F versus 1700-1800*F is always preferred). If it's good enough for Nascar, IRL and aerospace, I suppose it should be good enough for what I'm trying to do

Time will tell and I'll report back after I get some time with everything installed and running.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Some more parts came in today (npez)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 2:00 PM 8/15/2008

Just have to have enough oil, and a good way to get it down to the front.

With the slick on it, it should fly down very well. I cant wait to see it boosted. Your gonna love it N/A, but now that I have raped mine up a few times, I wonder what it'd be like, ........... Hummmm



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 3:26 AM 8/16/2008

If you aren't really good with a soldering iron and would rather let someone else do it I'd be happy to assist. Send it over and I'll get it modded for you like I did mine. No problemo.

Can't help you with Nistune as all I've seen are screenshots but I can show you the maps I've come up with so far.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 10:59 AM 8/16/2008

Fantastic - thanks a bunch in advance for the assist and the advice. I can't weld but I'm pretty mean with a soldering iron I know what you mean with soldered chip sockets they're sometimes a bear to get out - I've got a tool that sucks the solder out that I'm planning to use to clean them up pretty good.

I'm looking forward to working with you to better understand the engine management side of this. I agree with you that regardless of tuning tool used the fundamentals will be the same or very similar.

My new oil pickup tube didn't arrive yesterday (it'll be here Monday) so as I cannot put the pan on without it, I sat down last night and read maximum boost by Corky Bell cover to cover; it was a good read highly recommended. A good portion of the stuff I already knew, some stuff I skipped over (like blow-through carburation setups, etc.) but he had many nuggets in there that were of great value. After reading it I saw the way I had my turbos positioned originally will not be optimal, so I was up until 4:30AM looking at different scenarios to see what will work the best. At that time I gave up and decided that I would look at it again today with a clear mind.

Anyway, I'll let you know as soon as I'm at the engine management stage. My plan is to get the car started on the factory unmodified ECU, then socket/romulate, put a factory tune on it and make sure it still starts/runs. I will then pull the upper plenum, drop-in the nismo 555cc (615cc) injectors and use Nistune to indicate the injector change (it automatically changes the values in the tune to correspond to the new injectors) and start/run again with the new injectors. At that juncture we'll be able to do a tune for the normally aspirated setup so I can enjoy the car as I work out the turbo installation.

Let me know if this sounds like a reasonable approach to you.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Turbo Positioning Update
Posted by: npez at 10:12 PM 8/16/2008

The plumbing from the motor to the turbos and from the turbos to the factory exhaust will run underneath the crossmember using oval pipe that is solid mounted with the addition of an insulator in the mounts. There will be stainless steel flex-pipes from the manifold to the pipes feeding the turbos, as well as the connection from the solid mount returns to the catalytic converters. The flex-pipes should allow engine movement without affecting the solid mounted pipes and turbos.

I am also going to have some aluminum heatshields fabbed that will go around the turbine housing of the turbos - additional insurance on top of the coatings. Let me know if you see anything that you don't believe will work (the only thing that concerns me is heat and the probability of the solid mounts shearing bolts with the thermal expansion of stainless steel) as when you're this close to something for a couple of days one tends to lose the forest from the trees.

Thanks,
Nick.

LH Turbo (the horn will be relocated )

RH Turbo

Turbo as seen from the front opening




Post Title: Re: Turbo Positioning Update (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 3:30 AM 8/17/2008

If you've got the time and will to do it this way it can be done, but it seems like an almost unnecessary step to "make sure it starts" with the stock 370s and stock ECU. As long as everything is assembled the way it's supposed to be there isn't any reason I'd ever even put the 370s back in. Make sure your timing is set up correctly when you install the chains and there's shouldn't be any reason it won't start (other than electrical or wiring issues).

If it were my car, I'd go ahead and put the 555s in and save yourself some work. Be VERY careful with the O-rings on these sidefeed injectors as they are notorious for getting damaged. I've got a leaking O-ring on mine as we speak. A friend of mine just had an O-ring on his injectors in an STi go out randomly and it was never even pulled from the fuel rail.

Post Title: Re: Turbo Positioning Update (tmorgan4)
Posted by: npez at 9:45 AM 8/17/2008

Thanks for your feedback. The reason I was looking at the 2-step was because I thought the car would run rich if the ECU believed we still had the 370s in there when in reality we had 555s (615cc). I suppose I can do the ECU tweak and change the K value, injector latency, etc. and do all this in one step as you recommend; it would definetely save some time. Let me look into it and I'll work with Shane to get a good bin (adapted for 555s) that I can load on the Ostriched ECU when I get to that step of the build.

Thanks again,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: Turbo Positioning Update (npez)
Posted by: riu at 9:43 PM 8/28/2008

you think you could possibly mount it right under or next to your intake? that way it sits a good 6+ inches higher than the smic mounting points. and then take out the extraneous snorkel intake tubes for the stock airbox and run your piping through their?

your project is in too good of shape to just risk putting the turbo there



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 10:17 PM 8/28/2008

Thanks for the feedback. I have investigated different positions for the turbos but when mounted higher, the exhaust plumbing ends up with too many bends (not good for spool nor heat management). The exhaust plumbing is underneath the turbos with relatively straight shots from the exhaust manifold when they're mounted lower as pictured. I'll take a look again and see if there's anyway to do them higher but FYI the airbox, IC plumbing, etc. are all gone and will not be used. The setup will go to a custom front-mount IC, unless I can figure out a better way to fit them where the airbox used to be and maintain some sanity with the exhaust plumbing. With my setup I have to fit 2 Y pipes to accomodate the external wastegates as well, which further complicates the exhaust side plumbing.

I'll post some pics if I come up with something better than the current scenario.

Thanks again,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 11:35 PM 8/28/2008

Thanks for the feedback and assist. I ordered the Nistune software earlier this week and received the registration key from Matt at Nistune while I was in California this week (I actually just got home). I will call the folks that have my coated/plated parts and make sure they're ready so I can pick them up tomorrow, and will then proceed to do the ECU modification, so it can be socketed (I have a 5-day weekend ahead of me but will spend part of Saturday helping Jerry with his harness modification). My understanding is that we can load the stock program in Nistune and then use the software to state that the injector size has changed and it goes in and changes everything automatically. When I get to that point, I'll e-mail you a screenshot of what it says so we can do a sanity check on how this works. If it works like it states it does, we may be ok. I'll let you know as soon as I'm there (hopefully in the next 2-3 days)

Thanks again,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 3:42 PM 8/30/2008

Not sure how your dual MAF setup will need to be setup. For mine I had to expand the TP scales because stock only went up to 72 and I'm hitting TP's up to around 100. I expanded mine up to 128. With the dual maf's your's may not go that high since it's only reading half the air flow. Stock may be ok. You should know more once you do a map trace and see where the TP is.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 4:50 PM 8/30/2008

On the 132 K value - is that based on 555cc flow rate? I ask because Nismo calls them 555s but they actually flow 615cc. I downloaded everything from Nistune, so I'll spend some time installing the software and then start the work on the socketing. With hurricane Gustav on the horizon, I may have some delays in working on this, as I have family coming in from East Texas that has a mandatory evacuation in effect.

Anyway, there are still delays on my bringing my car in for the manifolds so I got fed up and went out this morning and bought a Miller MIG welder and all the accessories, and I will start working on this myself. The only thing that was slowing me down with this project is my ability to weld well. This move will force me to sit down and learn it well by doing it. I was surprised at how expensive the 122CF tank was for the argon/co2 mix though. I will start working with this setup for the crossmember seam weld, and brackets, etc. and then will get a tank of tri-mix so I can start work on the stainless steel.

This approach will probably cost as much as getting everything professionaly done, but at the end of the day I will end up with more tools I can use in the future, and the satisfaction of having done the work myself!

Thanks again and I'll let you know as soon as the electronics are ready to go.

Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: SuperHatch at 5:21 PM 8/30/2008

Amen Brotha!!



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 5:32 PM 8/30/2008

Which welder did you get? I think you'll pick it up quickly.



Post Title: Re: (tmorgan4)
Posted by: npez at 5:55 PM 8/30/2008

Anyway, I didn't buy the stainless wire yet as I'm still trying to decide between 304 and 321 stainless. I know the latter is better against heat and cracking, but I didn't wan't to overkill if the 304 will work well (Corky Bell's book mentions 304 as a good option for turbo manifold construction). Also, I didn't know with the additional chromium content in the 321 if that would make it much harder to weld or not.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: Carl H at 5:57 PM 8/30/2008

Thanks for the feedback. I'm planning on a bunch of stainless for the exhaust and possibly some other bits, but most of my stuff will be steel after the exhaust. As far as aluminum, I'll have to wait until I'm done with this batch of things, and then purchase the miller spool gun for welding aluminum. I agree with you on where to buy. I bought my equipment at Conroe Welding Supply and they really know their stuff. They're also miller authorized sales & service so I have one place to go for everything I need with the welder. Their pricing was fantastic the welder was within $40-50 from internet pricing I had seen. But the tank/gas pricing they gave me was less than ebay or the internet in general (but then again they had 1000s of tanks in the back).

I have a sawzall but now I'm looking at a metal cutting chopsaw so I can cut angles etc. They recommended this new saw that's out (it's expensive but may be worth it) which uses a metal carbide blade and cuts the metal like butter - no burrs and minimal heat. I didn't have time to look at it (I had to come back home as I'm helping MRJERRY with his harness) , but will look at it next week at some point to make a decision. I'll let you know my impression once I see it/buy it/use it.

We'll see how my welds look once I get going with it

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 6:38 PM 8/30/2008

Just in case you haven't already seen it, Burns Stainless has some good tech articles on their website talking about the different grades of stainless.

http://www.burnsstainless.com/....html



Post Title:
Posted by: Carl H at 7:29 PM 8/30/2008

Tyler have you read any reviews on the chop saw that were negative? Everything I've seen so far has been pretty positive. I must admit though I haven't thoroughly researched it between family things today and trying to unbox the welder.

On the burns stainless that's where I've been looking, as they have some pieces that I can readily use (e.g. Y pipe for the turbo/external wastegate, J-bends etc.) but the price in 321 is pretty expensive. Not sure if anyone has welded 321 or used for manifold purposes and can give their impressions compared to 304.

I'll go take a look at the saw next week and let you guys know.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: qsiguy at 10:29 AM 8/31/2008

The K value doesn't really reflect any sort of injector size or anything. 198 K being stock lowering it to 132 will be for the 555's. The K value is just a number the ECU uses in it's calculations to determine the pulsewidth of the injectors. Lower K value it will hold the injectors on for a shorter time. Since the larger injectors flow more fuel they need to be on for a shorter time to provide the right amount of fuel. If you don't change the K value it will be rich across the board (except maybe when you are in boost) and may not idle.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 7:52 AM 9/1/2008

Thanks for the information. I need to do some more reading I think. I downloaded Nistune's Nissan ECU Tuning Basics Guide which talks about all this - I had only read the SW user's manual so far.

My in-laws and some other family is still over so I haven't been able to do much on the car.....

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (qsiguy)
Posted by: Stinky at 8:23 AM 9/1/2008

Once you can get some map trace results you'll know where your TP is hitting and then you can tune the fuel and timing maps from there.



Post Title: Re: MAS clarification (qsiguy)
Posted by: npez at 10:08 AM 9/1/2008

I thought I responded regarding the MAS but couldn't locate my own response I'm planning on going with the Pro-Tube 3.5 inch blow-through MAS (http://www.promracing.com/products.htm) in a single MAS configuration (this MAS can take anything we'll throw at it). The reason I was looking at duals was to re-use my TTZ MAS or figure out a way to use my Q45 MAS.

I think for permanence sake, I may just go with the Pro-Tube from the get go so I don't have to re-fab any part of the intake track later. I thought I would clarify this so you had a better understanding of my direction.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 11:06 AM 9/1/2008

My friend with a supercharged 5.0 cobra has one of their MAFs and has been very pleased with it. I haven't spoken to pro-m yet, but am planning to this week. My understanding from speaking with my friend is that they calibrate the MAF any which way you want to set it up. I just need to better understand the types of things that can be calibrated.

I know that if I give them some front-end parameters such as anticipated CFM, injector size, etc. they can calibrate it based on that, but I don't know yet the specific "back-end" parameters (voltage curves, etc.) that are tweakable, and for that matter, what they need to look like for my application. If you have any information on how the existing Q45 one works internally, that would be very helpful for my discussion with them next week.

I'll let you know what I find out after talking with them as this is pretty high on the list along with the manifold fab. On that I found a place locally in Houston that can supply 321 stainless as well as 304 varieties. I'm still tossing around which route to go.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 7:56 AM 9/17/2008

We got nailed pretty hard. The area I'm in is 70-80 miles from the coast and IKE came over as a Category 1 storm. Fortunately I fared out ok, my house is pretty new so the construction can handle a cat1/cat2 storm.

The only bummer is that the area I live in has a lot of trees which many snapped or got uprooted and toppled over. I actually saw some pines that are 18-24 inches in diameter that the trunk twisted and snapped (that's pretty major torque). So all the trees fell on power lines and we haven't had power since the storm. I'm using an inverter and my aircard to look at the internet but that's about it. Not sure how Jerry and the others have fared.

I'm ordering a 20-25KW standby generator this week that'll be able to power the whole house, as I refuse to be in this situation again. At least the weather has been cool by Houston standards - 60's for a low and low 80's for a high.

Anyway, I hope to post some progress after we get power back and get back into the groove of things......

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: Mettler at 1:41 PM 9/17/2008

Hopefully the power will come on soon, but in the meantime I've put an order in for an additional natural gas meter on the other side of the house for the generator. I'm hoping to get some answers today on the automatic transfer switch so I can order the thing tomorrow.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: konatown at 4:26 PM 9/17/2008

Good luck with the build. I just helped my brother install new exhaust and manifolds using 304 mandrel bent on his Z32TT, looks great and was easy peasy to work with.



Post Title: Re: (konatown)
Posted by: gs14racer at 5:57 PM 9/17/2008

real glad to hear you made it alright...our house was pretty much unscathed however my back fence is trashed on all sides, half of my swimming pool is gone, liner and shell and all, and worst part is the roof over my back patio ended up on top of my car...after i cleared the debris i was fortunate to find only scratches and no dings or dents...oh and get this...since we were evacuated from our rigs offshore me and a few of my buddies with chain saws have been going around cutting up trees and what not...weve underbid every tree company weve encountered and between 3 of us have cleare $2000 from saturday to monday....they have yet to tell us when we can go back offshore so now were rebuilding fences...sorry to hear you dont have power yet...my wife was bitching about not having it because the neighbors across the street got their power restored sunday morning and we didnt get it back until monday afternoon...i explained to her that theres still 1.4 million people in houston who dont have power so we are very fortunate...i know im all the way across town but if theres anything i can do to help yall out please let me know...i know gas is scarce but if need be i can find some and make my way up there...best of luck to yall
-K



Post Title:
Posted by: Mettler at 12:25 AM 9/19/2008

Thanks,
Nick.

Pictures of Oilpan ready to go in

Bottom end cleaned up and new OEM oil pickup installed.

Pics of the modified plenum (not bolted on yet until I get everything done underneath) but it still shows the overall effect






Post Title: Re: 10-11-2008 Update (npez)
Posted by: tmorgan4 at 8:19 PM 10/11/2008

Why did you install a new oil pick-up?



Post Title: Re: 10-11-2008 Update (tmorgan4)
Posted by: npez at 9:35 PM 10/11/2008

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: T45 at 4:25 AM 10/12/2008

Hey Kbflip02 my company may do work for yours, I work for MTN doing sat comm onboard cruise ships and offshore rigs. If your internet on the rig is slow I didn't do it. If it's fast then you're welcome!!! Anyways...



Post Title: Re: (T45)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 12:56 AM 10/16/2008

Did you do that to the intake just to get it under the hood?

I have a stock hood for mockup, that is just missing the inner support, and it clears, the one I run, I buldged an inch for extra clearance.

Looks great, hope to get them out on the road together soon. Leme know if you are over this way. You Gotta go for a ride.
craig



Post Title: Re: (T45)
Posted by: kbflip02 at 11:18 AM 10/16/2008

Quote, originally posted by T45 »

Hey Kbflip02 my company may do work for yours, I work for MTN doing sat comm onboard cruise ships and offshore rigs. If your internet on the rig is slow I didn't do it. If it's fast then you're welcome!!! Anyways...

LOL im waiting to get a new rig assignment so im just sitting on my @$$ @ home w/my crazy prego wife...according to the office though the 3 rigs i might be placed on all have wireless...if I encounter any problems and cant get my daily NICO fix ill be sure to let you know...

on another note Npez its coming together nicely...everything looks great...unfortunately due to the hurricane damage ive had to push back starting my project with craig but everytime i log on here it makes me want it more and more...

were currently looking for a new house because my wife is unsatisfied with the house we have now(especially the neighbors) and we dont have enough room for an adequate nursery...

anyways GREAT JOB NPEZ! and as far as Craig goes ill give you a call later when i get a moment...since i know what your Z sounds like i can only imagine how npez's will be...



Post Title: Re: (craigztoyz)
Posted by: npez at 6:36 PM 10/16/2008

I'll let you know if I'm up in Austin at some point - yeah we'll definitely need to take the cars out.....

Nick.



Post Title: Re: (kbflip02)
Posted by: npez at 6:41 PM 10/16/2008

Good luck with the project and hope you get back on it soon...

Nick.



Post Title: Re: (kbflip02)
Posted by: craigztoyz at 6:18 PM 10/20/2008

Nick, Glad to see you have it coming together, Going to be a beauty queen. cant wait to run it. Give me a ring, Craig



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: jaysol at 12:19 PM 10/25/2008

Quote, originally posted by jaysol »

Hey nick its jay the guy that works for centerpoint energy i met u on monday when i was out on the field. Anyway man i finally got a good deal on a complete q45 motor. Well a complete car to be exact. Hey im still thinking abt that garage and ur set-up man that sh*t is sweet. Seen the car and the motor with the modify intake in person very nice this is going to be one badass car. anyway u got pm

Thanks for the compliment. It was nice meeting you as well. Small world that a NICO member would remember the car Anyway, look in my profile and send me the PM to that address. For some reason I haven't received it, and looked in my SPAM folder and didn't see anything there either.....

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: jaysol at 1:20 PM 10/25/2008

The intake looks amazing. For the near $50k price tag Infiniti charged for the Q45 in 1994, I think it should have looked like this from the beginning!

I've wanted a Z32 since they were introduced 18 years ago (OMG that's been awhile ). I'd love to see this thing in person some day. Top notch work so far...and some good ideas from everyone!



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: mychalous at 10:00 AM 11/3/2008

Quote, originally posted by Unnatural1 »

Just wanted to say the project is looking absolutely incredible! The intake looks amazing. For the near $50k price tag Infiniti charged for the Q45 in 1994, I think it should have looked like this from the beginning! I've wanted a Z32 since they were introduced 18 years ago (OMG that's been awhile ). I'd love to see this thing in person some day. Top notch work so far...and some good ideas from everyone!

Thanks again,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (mychalous)
Posted by: npez at 5:08 PM 11/3/2008

Quote, originally posted by mychalous »

This project looks absolutely fantastic. I enjoyed every hour it took to go through the 8 pages lol. Sorry to hear about the hurricane ike drama. Anyways keep up the great work I wish there were more car modders out there as thorough as you are. Can't wait to see this baby all buttoned up. YOU'RE MY HERO!!!

I hope I can button this up soon as I'm getting impatient. I have 3 weeks vacation I need to cram in before the end of the year though, so things will pickup very quickly as more time becomes available.

Thanks again,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: Unnatural1 at 6:10 PM 11/3/2008

Quote, originally posted by npez »

Thank you for the compliments - I'm trying to do my best to have it come out presentable as well as fast Hopefully some of the things that come out between my project and the others on NICO, will help people looking into something like this with what's involved to get it done. Thanks again, Nick.

Presentable?...that's an understatement. I'm glad the VH45DE is getting some love finally. Before all the engine swappers came along there wasn't much you could do with a VH. It was all undiscovered territory and, to a large extent, it still is.

Most of the people in the Q45 forum are interested in maintaining or VIP-styling their cars. Not so much emphasis on the performance aspect of the VH with a few notable exceptions (such as Shane). I've been following all these engine projects pretty intently. I had been thinking about selling the Q and buying an S14 or Z32 to mod/play with. But, with projects such as yours, and others, I'm excited about what's possible with the VH sitting in my engine bay!

I think all the work will be completely worth it when you are done. I don't see you being disappointed at all. When the boost comes along you should be in horsepower heaven! Keep up the good work!

~Brendan



Post Title: Re: Project Road Terror Z (npez)
Posted by: 86300ZXVH45 at 9:32 PM 11/3/2008

I haven't started on the new mounts yet as my wife decided she wanted to remodel the house which I've been swamped with for the past 3 weeks or so, along with 4 different contractors that are involved in this, and haven't had a chance to spend 2 minutes on my car. Everything is scheduled to be completed with the house before the new year so I hope to jump on it again soooon.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title: Re: (npez)
Posted by: jay-spec013 at 10:04 PM 12/28/2008

Keep an eye out for my project thread, ill post it as soon as i have all the parts and start on the fab work.



Post Title:
Posted by: qsiguy at 12:38 AM 5/22/2009

I talk to Nick on a pretty regular basis. He's still going at it, just gets side tracked a lot with work and his family.



Post Title: Re: (SuperHatch)
Posted by: Captainkitty at 4:41 PM 5/27/2009

Sorry for the long delay in responding - and sorry to hear about your job situation; I hope things improve on that front. I'm happy to hear about your new arrival! Congratulations! I know it seems hectic, but enjoy her as much as you can because they grow so fast. My oldest daughter will be 6 next week and my other 3 next month - time flies.

As Stephen mentioned, I've been completely underwater with work and family obligations. Things are finally starting to slow down so I hope to get back on the project on a regular basis in a week or so. Stephen modded up another crossmember for me which came out fabulous (I can now mount the factory engine mount insulators using both studs on the bottom) - I'll post some pics this evening of the work as it is trully awesome (thx again Stephen). I also bought an extra set of exhaust manifolds (thx x 2 to Stephen) so I can get the car started normally aspirated and validate everything works while I mod my other set for the twin-turbo setup.

My immediate next step is to get the crossmember powdercoated (I'll probably drop off tomorrow) and then will be ready to get back to assembly. I promise to post some pictures very soon as I will start regularly working on the car again over the summer.

Thanks,
Nick.



Post Title:
Posted by: HxC_Nismo at 12:33 PM 8/25/2009

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