Who do you think will win in Nov?

[Cold_Zero]

Bud, the "change" you speak of can only come from a strong leader, one strong enough to put his foot down and tell congress what he expects. There may be a ton of social issues that require congress to work as a team, but Iraq was Bush's mess from the start. He has, and should use his powers as president to get the situation resolved. He hasn't, instead, he continues to be lost in a sea of conflicting advice.

Everybody wants to blame congress when in fact, there has been no "leader" strong enough to stand up and take charge.

Bob,The 'Change That I speak of?" I was simply pointing out that the American Sheeple keep getting dupped into this "Media Spawned Progressive 'Change' Campaign" that has not and will not work. When people say, "Voting for McCain will be four more years of George W Bush," well I say, Voting for Obama's "Change" will be "Four More Years of the do nothing 110th Congress!"

Seriously, on the subject of 'Change.' The only way Obama can change the political culture of Washington DC, is to change the mind set in all 50 States in the United States, so that they stop sending the same old Politicians. I am very skeptical of his ability to "Fix" Washington. bud

[Cold_Zero]

I disagree, Bush is NOT MY PRESIDENT.

Are you a currently a citizen of the United States of America? If so, he IS Your President. Just as Bill Clinton was our President during the 1990's. By the viture of the fact of me disliking the man and at certain points hating him, didn't change the fact that he was My President and the Leader of this country.

Which leads me to another point. The Dumbocrats have been running around the past 8 years saying, "Political Dissent is the Highest form of Patriotism." My question will be, if Obama is elected to the Presidency with a Democrat controlled Congress, will Republican or any other dissent STILL be the "Highest Form of Patriotism?" Somehow I dont think so.

[stopcamping]

Doesn't matter, Bush doesn't meet my standards to be my President. Eff GWB. And I'll say it again, EFF GWB.

[Cold_Zero]

Can we agree that we have a failed Government? Cause it doesn't matter who's running what or whether the Congress does anything...the real issue is that the people get fvcked over and over no matter who's in office or what party is controlling what aspect of anything.

We have a failed Gov and we are being screwed. The very people that are supposed to work together to run the country are to busy playing party politics.

Placing blame on people isn't going to get us anywhere. We need to figure out how WE can take back the control the Gov has taken from us.

Brian,I agree with you. We should not look to our Government as a Savior, but as necessary part of societial life that enforces laws and provides for the common good. It is a flawed institute maded up of flawed people.

You ask how we can take back control? I like to look back to our founding Fathers and documents to look for answers.

Declaration of Independence

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

[Cold_Zero]

Doesn't matter, Bush doesn't meet my standards to be my President. Eff GWB. And I'll say it again, EFF GWB.

Well, he met the requirements in 2000 and 2004. [End of Tangent] This discussion is about who will win in November. George W. Bush is not eligible to run for a 3rd term.bud

[stopcamping]

...when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism....

This has already happened with the GWB administration.

[Cold_Zero]

And I seem to remember (not so fondly) during the 1990's the actions of BATF Storm Troopers, FBI Agents and INS Agents that flirted with the Constitution.

In my book the BATF needs to be reformed to go back to enforcing Tax Laws. Anyone that has had dealings with their storm troopers, especially FFL dealers, know how abusive that department is! They dont enforce laws they harrass law abiding citizens.

[stopcamping]

And I seem to remember (not so fondly) during the 1990's the actions of BATF Storm Troopers, FBI Agents and INS Agents that flirted with the Constitution.

In my book the BATF needs to be reformed to go back to enforcing Tax Laws. Anyone that has had dealings with their storm troopers, especially FFL dealers, know how abusive that department is! They dont enforce laws they harrass law abiding citizens.

It's interesting to note that Ruby Ridge occurred during daddy Bush's reign.

[rn79870]

Well, he met the requirements in 2000 and 2004. [End of Tangent] This discussion is about who will win in November. George W. Bush is not eligible to run for a 3rd term.bud

Bud, you too seem to see the need for change, yet you cough at the only available option. What do you propose we do? Revolution isn't an option, and anarchy never accomplishes anything constructive. What's left other than giving the political establishment a good enema by voting in the other extreme for a term or two? Anything else just pays lip service to the problems.

[rn79870]

And I seem to remember (not so fondly) during the 1990's the actions of BATF Storm Troopers, FBI Agents and INS Agents that flirted with the Constitution.

In my book the BATF needs to be reformed to go back to enforcing Tax Laws. Anyone that has had dealings with their storm troopers, especially FFL dealers, know how abusive that department is! They dont enforce laws they harrass law abiding citizens.

At least Janet Reno had the 'nads to step up and assume full responsibility for the tradegy in Texas.. Something a Bush has never done.

And you're absolutely right, federal agents need a lesson in constitutional law, and who better to give it to them than Obama.

[WDRacing]

I know it says we can "throw off" the Gov...but how I guess is the question. I'm all passion and piss water...I just need a direction to aim. I haven't been happy with the way things are...ever really. I've always voted Repub because they always paid the Military the most. But that changed to more deployments and no budget which really made military life suck a**.

Now I'm voting on what few things matter most to me. The rest of the country and how it's run is going to suck no matter who's in office because our Gov is a failure as a whole. So McCain and Obama are going to be screwed and most likely not be re-elected simply because of the "State Of The Union".

So it makes my decision easy, Obama seems to be the best choice to keep my wife from doing 1 years assignments to the Desert. The rest is all crap to me

[Cold_Zero]

It's interesting to note that Ruby Ridge occurred during daddy Bush's reign.

Well, Papa Bush was President in the 1990's right? And the assualt, on Randy Weaver's house, the execution of his unarmed wife and child ocurred in the 1990's right? Then I tend to count that in my previous statement. Doesnt matter who the President is/was. I also seemed to have excluded a very importation group of Federal Agents. I apologize to the Internal Revenue Service Hit Squads, for leaving them out. Sorry guys.

At least Janet Reno had the 'nads to step up and assume full responsibility for the tradegy in Texas.. Something a Bush has never done.

When you say Bush has never done? Are you refering to Waco? Since Waco occured 2 years before GW's Governorship. Or are you talking about things like Gitmo and so on...?

[AZhitman]

Doesn't matter, Bush doesn't meet my standards to be my President. Eff GWB. And I'll say it again, EFF GWB.

LOL - Looks like a 7-year old with his arms crossed and his lip poked out.

Intereting how the Libbies squall "Not my President" while taking full advantage of their rights as Americans to say such nonsense.

Who IS your president, then? Do we all get our own individual president? Can we pick one out of a list? Oooh, cool! Everyone gets to pick their OWN little president... you can keep him (or her) in a box under your bed!

GWB, like it or not, is the President of the USA. If you don't want him to be your President, quit being lazy and renounce your citizenship.

[AZhitman]

I don't respect anyone who was (and potentially still is) an addict.

Are we speaking of drugs / alcohol?

Better look long and hard, then. Both candidates have past isues in that area.

Personally, I don't have a lot of respect for O's poor juddgement in using cocaine. Just tells me he hasn't the strength of character to resist temptation.

[WDRacing]

Personally, I don't have a lot of respect for O's poor juddgement in using cocaine. Just tells me he hasn't the strength of character to resist temptation.

COCAINE IS AWSOME!!!!

[stopcamping]

Intereting how the Libbies squall "Not my President" while taking full advantage of their rights as Americans to say such nonsense.

Yeah because in your eyes GWB created the bill of rights.

BTW, you still haven't explained why you favored GWB even though he had a crappy experience record.

Better look long and hard, then. Both candidates have past isues in that area.

Bush drank and became an alcoholic. Obama snorted and did not become a coke addict. Huge difference. I respect people who've used drugs (alcohol is a drug too) and not become an addict. It shows that they're not weak-minded and are open-minded.

[rn79870]

When you say Bush has never done? Are you refering to Waco? Since Waco occured 2 years before GW's Governorship. Or are you talking about things like Gitmo and so on...?

Actually, I was referring to the ability of a politician to say "I blew it." As much as I dislike many of Reno's methods, I respect her accepting the blame for Waco. We need more leaders with that courage, instead of those content with double talk and issue ducking.

I can forgive honest mistakes, even costly ones when they happen - if the actor sees the act as a mistake. But when they stand firm in a belief that is obviously incorrect is inexcusable, especially when the error is patiently apparent. That is the very thing that makes me want to swing a wide left blow at the establishment, just like the electorate tried 2 years ago with their ever so slight change in the rep/demo balance.

This is the thrust of my fix. We'll add liberals until the situation is fixed, then we'll keep a fair balance.

[96Qowner]

Heheh, yes this is the answer you always get. No one argues that Obama is actually qualified - they only try to claim that others aren't either, or that qualifications don't matter.

But the question is whether an unqualified guy can win the Presidency. I think there's a good chance of it, yes.

Anyone see a single post that talks about Obama's qualifications or experience?

All the talk about war has nothing to do with Obama's qualifications - if anything, he should be ruled out due to the absolute FACT that he has ZERO experience or aptitude in military matters. If you want the war to go better, you really should think about getting a President who knows something about, and has long-standing close connections with, the US military. You might actually think about electing a guy who fought this administration tooth and nail - his own Party - over its management of the Iraq war, and guy who it turned out was right.

Besides, if you Google Obama's position statements over the years, you'll find that all he ever proposed was to quit. He wanted to quit in 2005 and 2006 and 2007 and 2008. Now he says he wants to quit in 2010. Not wanting to fight a war is fine - a good thing. The world would be a better place if there weren't wars or people who thought war was a good idea. But when that's ALL you have to offer, there's really no reason to keep saying it. That's not exactly a sign of brilliance. That doesn't exactly show great leadership. It would be better to have suggestions for dealing with real world problems. Obama just wants to quit - it's all he ever said he wanted, year after year. That doesn't show experience or qualification. It shows an opinion that refuses to change with changing circumstances. Again - not a positive trait.

Obama may have been a Law School professor instead of a College professor, but that's a rather slim qualification for President. I can't think of a circumstance where a President would need to be expert in Constitutional Law. A President's job is to operate the Federal government with its millions of employees - to hire people for the top levels of management to operate its various departments. A President is responsible for foreign policy and diplomatic appointments. A President either signs or vetoes legislation. A President serves as the political leadership figure for his Party. None of those duties have anything to do with Constitutional Law. The President has access to people far more experienced than Obama for that advice.

So, Obama's qualifications? His experience? I also post on the abcnews.com political forum, where hardened partisans are dedicated to spinning every idea, who argue vehemently for even the silliest points, and no one there can list any credible qualifications for Obama. Basically, they admit that they don't care about qualifications.

Are there any Obama fans here who care about qualifications?

[stopcamping]

People don't care, they are saying "eff it" to experience, just like they did when they voted for Bush in 2000.

[Cold_Zero]

96-Sorry for getting off on so many tangents. I apologize.

If the whole John Kerry 'Flip Flop' thing was bad in 2004. Just wait until the 'Flip Flop' method is used in 2008! Both candidates and even Hillary had been playing the 'Gotcha!' game. I assume that the 'Flip Flop' game will be next.

[Repo Man]

Running a state has nothing to do with controlling the largest economy in the world, let alone the strongest military. In all reality it probably depends on the cabinet a president chooses, and I have high hopes for Obama not making the same mistakes GW made. A liberal twist may be needed to turn this all around.

And Bud, that liberal twist can't help but bring change.

Well sure it does Bob. You have a state economy and a state-controlled National Guard. Obviously it is not on the same level as federal, but it's a good primer for service. I think you are mistaking me for someone who is in love with GWB, I'm not, so stop spinning that way.

No, but I'm not supporting the war. I also have plenty of friends who've come back and tell me it's effed up over there.

Well, what is f'ed up are the Rules of Engagement, not that you would understand anything about that. Our military has accomplished a lot there, but the hyper-liberal main stream media won't cover it. No one wants to cover it because reporting bad things is just more interesting. Apparently.

You do know I was talking to AZhitman about his int'l experience, right?

Guess I missed that part. My bad. However, I never claimed that GWB had any great experience in that area either. He is certainly no Reagan. I will say though that if Obama thinks he can just sprinkle magic dust on hooligans like Ahmadinejad and get them to see things his way he is in for a big surprise.

I disagree, Bush is NOT MY PRESIDENT.

I don't respect anyone who was (and potentially still is) an addict. I dont know about you, but if someone wants my respect, that person has to earn it. And GWB has not earned any of my respect.

You still don't get it and I suppose you never will.

Doesn't matter, Bush doesn't meet my standards to be my President. Eff GWB. And I'll say it again, EFF GWB.

Frankly, your standards are irrelevant. They are at least until you actively work to change the standards that are set, and I don't mean pissing and moaning about the president on a CAR forum. But maybe I'm wrong. Are you working actively to change the current standards for the office of president?

And you're absolutely right, federal agents need a lesson in constitutional law, and who better to give it to them than Obama.

What a joke. Like I said before, Obama doesn't even understand the 2nd Amendment. He thought the DC gun ban was constitutional. Fail.

. I've always voted Repub because they always paid the Military the most. But that changed to more deployments and no budget which really made military life suck a**.

Well Brian, apparently not everyone that is deployed feels the same way that you do. There were 1215 soldiers (twice the number from last year) that re-upped on the 4th of July in one of Saddam's palaces under General Petraeus:



Said author and historian William Forstchen:

Lump in throat time. ... I suspect it is not the largest single re-enlistment in American history. In the spring of 1864, tens of thousands of Union volunteers, who had signed up for three years service in 1861 were up for discharge.

They had served with honor and distinction, they had every honorable reason to take their discharges and go home, but if they did so, the cause of the Union would be in jeopardy. They knew with utter certainty what awaited them if they signed up again ... and what might be lost if they did not. Over 30,000 of them reenlisted ... that action, as much as any other, saved the Union.

The young men and women in this photo show the spirit of the volunteer soldiers of our nation. I believe that hovering near them are the spirits of so many who gave the last full measure of devotion and now whisper, "Thank you soldier, God bless you, and well done."

[stopcamping]

I don't mean pissing and moaning about the president on a CAR forum.

Its ironic that you'll also "be pissing and moaning" about the President in a car forum come 2009.

[rn79870]

If you require military experience to become president, go read "Unfit for Command." Military experience is by no means a prerequisite to good government. Perhaps a President more willing to trust and rely upon the recommendations of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as well as the Generals in the field will be more of a blessing than a President led by someone like Rumsfeld.

[Cold_Zero]

I think you are mistaking me for someone who is in love with GWB, I'm not, so stop spinning that way.

Then why do you have pictures of GW Bush, Jesus and Mrs Repo on your night stand? Right next to your guns and your bible? Personally, I think that you tend to cling a little to much! j/k broham

Quote »What a joke. Like I said before, Obama doesn't even understand the 2nd Amendment. He thought the DC gun ban was constitutional. Fail. [/quote]Further more, all we have to do is look to the 'great state' to our west to see the gun laws and general laws that he has helped pass in Illinois. More fuel to the fire. bud

[Cold_Zero]

Its ironic that you'll also "be pissing and moaning" about the President in a car forum come 2009.

Nah, come 2009 Obama will be elected, the sun will come out, the birds will be chirping. There will be 40 acres and a mule for every citizen and a chicken in even pot. The lame will walk, the blind will see and Jesus let Obama take over the 'Second Coming" duties.

No, come 2009 Johnny get your gun!

[rn79870]

Well sure it does Bob. You have a state economy and a state-controlled National Guard. Obviously it is not on the same level as federal, but it's a good primer for service. I think you are mistaking me for someone who is in love with GWB, I'm not, so stop spinning that way.

How can you use GW and National Guard service in the same sentence and keep a straight face? The only correlation that can be drawn from your Governor of Texas example is that Governors of Texas make poor presidents. (with apologies to the Texans)

What a joke. Like I said before, Obama doesn't even understand the 2nd Amendment. He thought the DC gun ban was constitutional. Fail.

Don't forget that 4 of the SCOTUS justices agreed with Obama. So that argument doesn't really hold water.

[96Qowner]

If you require military experience to become president, go read "Unfit for Command." Military experience is by no means a prerequisite to good government. Perhaps a President more willing to trust and rely upon the recommendations of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as well as the Generals in the field will be more of a blessing than a President led by someone like Rumsfeld.

Yes, here you don't argue that Obama has military experience, you assert that military experience is not necessary. That's especially convenient, since Obama has none, anyway. You also make the odd claim that having none may actually be better, 'cause then the President can just do whatever the Chiefs say he should do. Are you sure you thought that completely through? Are you saying that Obama will/should ignore what his SecDef says?

This is serious stuff, because it sure looks to me like this is going to be a contest between those that think experience and qualifications are good things in a President, and those who don't. Quite a weird disagreement.

[Repo Man]

Its ironic that you'll also "be pissing and moaning" about the President in a car forum come 2009.

Aw hell no! Obama is going to wave his magic wand and fix everything! I'll have nothing to piss and moan about! And you didn't answer the question or address anything I said, so we'll just assume you agree and/or have no debate skills.

[stopcamping]

One more thing:

I will say though that if Obama thinks he can just sprinkle magic dust on hooligans like Ahmadinejad and get them to see things his way he is in for a big surprise.

You mean like how GWB sprinkled magic freedom dust over the Iraqi people and expected us to be greeted as liberators?! LMAO don't worry I'm sure BO will learn from Bush's mistakes.

[Repo Man]

You mean like how GWB sprinkled magic freedom dust over the Iraqi people and expected us to be greeted as liberators?! LMAO don't worry I'm sure BO will learn from Bush's mistakes.

One has got nothing to do with the other. Quit stretching.