when im racing...

[themadscientist]

WILL YOU CUT THIS CHILDISH **** PLEASE. STOP BUMPING THIS SIDE EFFECT OF A LOW CLASS KID. I'M JUST SICK OF SEEING THIS POST OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I COME TO NICO TO GET SOME USEFUL INFO AND BE HELPFUL AT THE SAME TIME. KEEP A LITTLE BIT OF PROFESSIONALISM HERE, WILL YA?

WHO IS THE MODERATOR HERE, DELETE THIS UNWANTED POST OR SIMPLY STICKY IT AND LOCK IT FOR NEWBIES TO SEE, BUT NO ONE CAN POST HERE.

I would be the mod and I would point out a few things if you would please allow it, really thanks a bunch.If you are tired of seeing it why did you bump it by posting in it?

You come to Nico to see useful info and professionalism, Are you implying that this is the sole thread in this entire forum? You might want to scroll down and click on some of the others I think you will find what you are looking for.

I find it petty that this simple single thread that has brought so much joy to so many goofballs (me included) seems to have destroyed your whole view of humanity. Try to be less misenthropic and anal would ya? Do you just watch news and C-span on TV? No wrestling no Survivor, not even some Judge Judy? I doubt that. Man does not live on bread and water alone, you need some pixie sticks to keep it interesting.

If this thread bothers you might I suggest you DON'T READ OR POST IN IT! Amazing ain't it? The guys that like this thread get to have fun and you get to do whatever it is you do when not spouting your personal manifesto and calling for a Forum Putsch. I will not sticky this thread as it is assanine drivel, I will similarly not lock it becase some people like this drivel and that is o.k. If they didn't it would'nt keep popping up to the top now would it?

I hope that you find some other threads that you can use and enjoy, we are a community and I hope there is something for everyone, seriously.

[Veriest1]

Man does not live on bread and water alone, you need some pixie sticks to keep it interesting.

New Signature! I claimed it first!!!

[madbouncy]

I don't know much about paddle shifters and I've sure as hell never been near a car that has them. But are they on the steering wheel so that when you're turning you can still shift or are they more like how the turn signal switch is where it's behind the steering wheel? I assume it's on the wheel but I guess I wouldn't be suprised to see some company not do that.

Too bad they won't make a car that just locks the engine at it's peak hp and constantly varies the gears. Would be fun for racing.

[koukiKA240]

I would be the mod and I would point out a few things if you would please allow it, really thanks a bunch.If you are tired of seeing it why did you bump it by posting in it?

You come to Nico to see useful info and professionalism, Are you implying that this is the sole thread in this entire forum? You might want to scroll down and click on some of the others I think you will find what you are looking for.

I find it petty that this simple single thread that has brought so much joy to so many goofballs (me included) seems to have destroyed your whole view of humanity. Try to be less misenthropic and anal would ya? Do you just watch news and C-span on TV? No wrestling no Survivor, not even some Judge Judy? I doubt that. Man does not live on bread and water alone, you need some pixie sticks to keep it interesting.

If this thread bothers you might I suggest you DON'T READ OR POST IN IT! Amazing ain't it? The guys that like this thread get to have fun and you get to do whatever it is you do when not spouting your personal manifesto and calling for a Forum Putsch. I will not sticky this thread as it is assanine drivel, I will similarly not lock it becase some people like this drivel and that is o.k. If they didn't it would'nt keep popping up to the top now would it?

I hope that you find some other threads that you can use and enjoy, we are a community and I hope there is something for everyone, seriously.

:::

LONG LIVE "WHEN IM RACING"!!!

[Veriest1]

I don't know much about paddle shifters and I've sure as hell never been near a car that has them. But are they on the steering wheel so that when you're turning you can still shift or are they more like how the turn signal switch is where it's behind the steering wheel? I assume it's on the wheel but I guess I wouldn't be suprised to see some company not do that.

Paddle shifters are mounted behind the steering wheel. Even though you could easily shift while turning with them such a technique still wouldn't work well at the limits of traction.

The sudden change of load on the engine is going to change the cars wieght distribution and whether you're shifting up or down the rear tires will end up with less traction. If you up-shift the wieght will shift forward slightly due to less power going to the rear and cause the back tires to lose grip from the wieght not being on them. If you down-shift you put more wieght and more power to the rear. In both situations the clutch will still have to engage and for a split second no power will be going to the rear for a moment which will make what ever the cars wieght does in the next gear even harder to predict. Both situations will create oversteer.

If I got anything wrong in there I'm sure somebody will correct me.

For clarification, I've never seen nor heard of a FWD car with paddle shifters... not that one couldn't exist but, rather, I don't know of one.

Too bad they won't make a car that just locks the engine at it's peak hp and constantly varies the gears. Would be fun for racing.

This won't work because of the traction circle of a tire. A tire can only take so much acceleration and cornering at the same time. You have to be able to control the engine output to keep it at the limits of both acceleration and cornering.

Edit: Constantly varying the gears means constantly operating a clutch mechanism which means constantly changing the balance of the car.

I hope you weren't being sarcastic and in the process made me look like a .

In the pic of the Maserati Spyder interior one can see the paddles sticking up behind the wheel and convieniantly labeled "up" and "down."

[madbouncy]

That makes sense. I shift a lot when turning (not racing, just driving.) So that's why I thought that. Though none of those cars are really made for daily driving in mind.

Actually I didn't mean like it keeps shifting gears. I meant so that the ratio constantly changes. So instead of controlling the engine, you control the gear ratio. This way you're always using your peak hp. That and it's a lot easier to make an engine peak at 700hp than to stay level for your entire band at 700hp. Which is basicaly what this would be like.

[Chingon]

BTW: the new MR2 has a true sequential transmission for those who dig it. I think it's a 6 spd (don't quote me)...

Which brings me to the next point. I think shifting while in a turn in an MR or RR car would not incur the same effects that an FR would have. If anything MR + RR cars are at their sweet spot in these instances when the traction/weight @ the rear helps them turn at full throttle.

[Veriest1]

Yeah, the only FF car I have experience with is my dads automatic Taurus.

The wieght changes would be the same between all of the platforms but I doubt the FF would have as drastic of an effect. In the case of a FF wieght should increase on the front wheels on the initial upshift and give some traction for a second. Which depending on the RPMs will mostly go away once the driver steps back on the gas.

In a downshift, however, is where I really see the differance. Because wieght is coming off the drive wheels during acceleration they lose traction and you slow down if it was enough to bring the rear out because at this point the car should be understeering which in a FF is automatically corrected, to an extent, when the front tires slip and wieght is shifted back forward.

However if you get on the brakes after a down shift then you're traction is increasing in a not so linear way in combination with the engine braking. Since there is now gobs of traction in the front this situation screams left foot braking so the driver can get back on the gas.

Bleh, I hate front wheel drive cars. Probably because I'm not used to them but I loathe them none the less.

A mid-rear layout will handle much like a front-rear layout...except there is more mass in the back and unless they are well balanced the car will be prone to oversteer even more so than the FR. Think about the differance between something like a Fiero and a Porsche 911.

[madbouncy]

Wouldn't it upset the car no matter what it is? FF, FR, MR? I mean, if it rocks back, it's giong to rock forward a bit too. And the car rocking is goig to always be a bad thing. Plus, if it puts too muc on the rear wheels, wouldn't it just make you understeer unless you break your rear wheels loose?

[SHIFT_240sx]

i claim the 100th post!!!

[dfw240_EE]

I claim 101st post, the first 3-digit prime-numbered post!

[nismofly]

101 can be divide by the 55.5..........

not rpime

[eddiec]

CVT - Constant Variable Transmission. its an auto design but uses belts instead of gears to achieve optimum gear ratio. its variable so there is no set # of speeds, ie no first or second, just a bunch of in betweens. the day is coming when all cars will be drive by wire or some other means to take more control from the driver (so we can do other things like talk on the cel, or put on our makeup). paddle shifters are actually a cool step in that direction.

[nismo521]

The CVT in the Murano is bad-A! Floor it from a light and the engine hits peak torque and stays there. It's kinda freaky seeing the tach not move while the car gains speed. Passing is nice too, no kickdown, the tach just screams to redline and stays there.

[Veriest1]

Wouldn't it upset the car no matter what it is? FF, FR, MR? I mean, if it rocks back, it's giong to rock forward a bit too. And the car rocking is goig to always be a bad thing. Plus, if it puts too muc on the rear wheels, wouldn't it just make you understeer unless you break your rear wheels loose?

The wheels with the wieght being taken away are always going to be the ones losing grip.

If the front is lightened to the point of understeer the driver has 2 options.1) Apply the brakes to shift the wieght forward. This is the natural reaction and is one reason manufacturers like front wheel drive cars.2) Apply more throttle. Assuming the driver knows the limits of the car and that this action will induce oversteer to correct the understeer without as big of a loss in speed. This doesn't work as well in cases of extreme understeer because since the car is turning it has probably gotten to close to the track edge and needs to be reigned back into the apex and away from barriers and such.

[sdtouge]

another way to get rid of understeer is the ebrake.

i know its not really that aewsome of a idea, but if your already talking aobut oversteer, it will certanly do that for you.

[Veriest1]

Yep... but it's much harder to modulate the emergency brake unless you either keep the button down or remove it.

I don't see the e-brake as a viable method of weight transfer in any situation. Turning with only one hand on the wheel is just to dangerous esspecially in a racing situation with other cars around. The emergency brake is just that; an emergency brake and should only be used in emergency. That emergecny being a hydrolic failure in the main braking system. Pulling the e-brake in an impending collision takes away friction and makes stopping distances longer. Just like locking up the front wheels. The hydrolic system will activate the rear brakes just as hard, if not harder, than a mechanical e-brake while allowing easier steering and modulation of all 4 brakes.

Edit: Activating the front brakes will actually take out understeer faster and easier than the rear brakes because of the wieght transfer to the front. Wieght = grip however the relationship between the two is nonlinear. This nonlinear relationship is what causes the front wheels to lock under heavy braking.

[sdtouge]

yep, but i thought you were talking about how to stop understeer. definantly coming to a complete stop locking up anything would not be a good idea. but if you dont have abs, and you panic, i dont think you going to "calmly"apply brake pressure, your gonna slam on the brakes and not make it any better.

yes, braking will transfer weight foreward, and ebrake just locks up the rear so your front tires will regain traction.

understeer is a biotch

[Veriest1]

understeer is a biotch

[nismofly]

understeer

[Veriest1]

I am constantly amazed by the direction this thread traveled from its humble/retarded begginings.

[nismofly]

indeed, weve taken it and turned into a very informal thread, i dont know how we did...but we went from bashing to paddle shifters to weight shifting and understeer

lol oh well

[eddiec]

"The Little Thread That Could"

[Fenvy]

ttt

free bump

[nismofly]

a bump 16 minutes after the last post?

well take this! 8 minutes after yours!

[Fenvy]

I feel that this thread does not deserve to go to the 2nd page :P

[nismofly]

the second page? its almost to 5!

we have to think of more technical stuff to talk about while we bump it

[xXxTriStarxXx]

im gonna guess that this will be the first post on the 5th page....(crosses fingers)

nope i just relized its 30 posts to a page isnt it

[koukiKA240]

I got something we could possibly bounce around for a couple pages. Tell me what ya think.

As a car enthusiast i know why I put my blood, sweat, tears, and savings into my car. "there is no better feeling than that of a job well done"

The list could trully go on forever as to reasons why i do what i do. But sometimes trying to explain to people why is kinda difficuilt, almost "if you have to ask, you will never understand"

Anyhow, why do you put the effort into your car that you do? And what do you tell people who ask you why?~Sam

[madbouncy]

I work on my car because my family has a history of heart problems and I don't expect to live past 50. I figure if I'm going to die in a chair/seat, I'd rather it was a fast moving one.