What to do for 12's?? (RB20DET)

[eh?]

if you cannot afford to build your car right......then maybe you should wait and save up a bit. It will probably be cheaper to build your car right, than to replace your motor after building it wrong. thats why my rb is still stock:)

I'd actually like to see someone hit a goal with just bare minimums.

[RB280SX]

Same here, thats why I'm trying to keep this car under 2g's. I like building stuff on the cheap, and I admit, this is my first car (I dealt with computers before this hobby), but I feel that I can get it done right (typical words from the mouth of a teen ).

[Swedish Mike]

I think (my guess) the RB20 engine is like many other engines when it comes to first engine upgrades.This is what I would do if I bought one:

* 3" turbo back exhaust. No cat or race cat.* Air filter, I use K&N or Green.* Plugs, usually one grade colder/harder.* New turbo, a bit bigger and most important, new. I only use Mitsu.* Bigger injectors or higher fuel pressure, fuel pump. * Ported or bigger AFM. * ECU upgrade or some sort of engine control to gain max from the mods.

If you do this and use quality parts I can promise you the car will be fast.

This is the upgrades I used on my friends 12 Sec Volvo, and that´s a FWD.Same upgrades as the 12 sec CA S13, both had stock head and internals.

One of the most important things is the turbo, old turbo´s suck and even a new with the same spec will make a huge difference.And the most important mod is engine control, if things doesn´t match you´ll gain zero...

/Mike

[blk90s13]

Nitrous.

or a tow strap on one of them funny cars

and like everyone said cheap , fast , reliable

[Yellow4g63]

just buy a dry set up and tune the fuel jet so your car don't run super rich on the NOS. End of story, you hit 12's on slicks, score with the hot girl in your high school and go on to be a world famous race car driver. ok forget the rest just get the nos.

[rb20detsilvia]

do you know what your car runs now

[SeVa-S13]

Probably a high 13 if he can drive.

[RB280SX]

Whelp... I'm running 0's right now. My engine died while we were heading to a local shop to get the timing adjusted. Weird symptom... Btw, can anyone give me a rough idea what went wrong?

While driving at about 10mph, the car just dies. We try starting it again but the needle on the car just wiggles at 0 rpm and from the sound of it, does not even start "catching". It just makes a noise as if the starter is trying to start the car with no response from the engine. After giving it a few more shots, on the second to the last one, we hear a grinding noise that is pretty hard to describe. We were startled at first, but my friend told me to suck it up and try starting it again while he observed what was happening in the engine bay. I tried after wondering if my engine is dead, but this time, there is no noise when I put the key to the "start" position.

After what seemed like hours, we made another attempt, and this time, it made the weird sound for like 1 second and went dead silent. With nothing to do, I called some friends and we started pushing the car back to my friends house (about 1 mile away, towing was estimated to be 60$...). After we get there, they all want to know what is wrong with the car, so I show them (thinking that there would be no noise). All of a sudden, the car almost comes to life, but stalls out (I usually have to give it gas to start).

Now I'm confused..., is the starter fried? If it is, why the hell did it come back from the dead like 3 times??

[SeVa-S13]

Crappy wiring probably.

[RB280SX]

Wiring could explain the devastating sounds ?? Also, I should note that based on my SAFC, the battery voltage is at 12.0. When I try starting the car, it does not drop much, it actually fluctuates. I then hooked up a car to supply some extra juice if I lacked some, and the same problem persisted.

Is there anyway the engine is damaged?

[SeVa-S13]

I was just guessing wiring problems for the intermittent starting and no drop of voltage when trying to start. I'd think if the starter were getting proper connections, it would atleast spin. Does the car click when you try to start?How are your battery connections? They can be good enough for accessories but not enough to start.

Try to describe the grinding noise more? It sounds like your starter isn't always engaging, or only partially engaging the flywheel. That's a pretty distinct, and horrible noise. Like a very loud screeching/grinding.

[RB280SX]

I think that's it. The starter musn't be fully engaging (my friend said this as well, but I don't trust him much), which would lead to it partially being on the flywheel and grinding. Btw, does this explain to why the car died when rolling at 10 mph?

Time for a rebuild?

[rb20detsilvia]

i woul fix the starter than see how it runs if you have a wirering issue could explain why it died

[RB280SX]

Well, weird thing is, my dad and I went to go look at the car. While in the process, he wanted me to turn it over so he could get an idea of what was wrong. The car started turning over...

However, the car has a problem. The engine doesn't sputter or anything like it used to. It just sits at 0 rpm and moves alittle bit (+-100). I'm going to be doing a reinstall with the car. This is going to be my project, and in the mean time, I'm getting an S2k. I'll keep on posting here as I progress. Thanks for the help guys!

Btw, this is a wiring issue correct? Is there any way that my motor can be dead, resulting in it not sputtering? Thanks.

[rb20detsilvia]

also could be timming belt ar cam position sensor

[RB280SX]

Well, I went to my friend's house and checked out the spark plugs. WOW!! The tip was seriously black (carbon build up) due to the car running so rich. This might explain why the car won't kick up and why it died. I doubt the spark could have gone through the carbon. I mean, I was scratching at the carbon and it was caking off in layers...

I'm going to check the wiring and do some general maintenance on the car, as I really want to get this thing to the dragstrip. I'm going to clean the injectors (Seafoam and Engine Restorer), MAFS, IACV, check the O2 sensor, and a Walbro fuel pump is on the way.

[rb20detsilvia]

maf, iac , and o2 sensor wont make the car not start pull off the oil cap and see when you turn it over if the cam is turning change the plugs AND SEE IF IT STARTS

[RB280SX]

Is there anyway to do a timing adjustment without starting the car? I want to make sure that the timing is fine before I start checking everything out. I have a VERY strong feeling that the timing is retarded, causing the spark plugs to be black, have a rough idle, smell like fuel, and have a hard time starting.

[rb20detsilvia]

im not sure on the marks but you need to bring #1 up to top dead center pull the timming cover off and make sure all your marks are lined up if they all dont line up your belt could have hopped timming

[RB280SX]

I'm going to take the CAS off and get a better look. I'm guessing that I'm going to need to invest in a timing light.

[rb20detsilvia]

but that wont help you if the car wont start you need to deturmin 1 are you getting fuel and injector pulse 2 are you getting spark 3 timming and 4 compression start with the basics

[RB280SX]

I'm going to do those first, to make sure that it isn't something obvious. Thanks alot for the wonderful input, it's very much appreciated .
Modified by RB280SX at 11:21 PM 5/13/2006

[RB280SX]

im not sure on the marks but you need to bring #1 up to top dead center pull the timming cover off and make sure all your marks are lined up if they all dont line up your belt could have hopped timming

FU*K!! I read about the symptoms and this fits my problem very well. I'm going to check tomorrow morning. FU*K! I honestly think that the motor may have died. Weird thing is, the car didn't make any weird noises, it just kept on cutting in and out, basically sputtering, and it died. Then, we got it to start up again, but it died. Started it up again and my friend kept the rpm's up, but after about 3 seconds, it started cutting out and even though he was applying gas, the car just died.

Basically, what I'm saying is..., if the timing was to be an issue, shouldn't the motor have just seized at one stage instead of cutting in and out? Also, how do I check if the valves are ok without doing a compression test? I'm asking this because I don't want to remove the fuel pressure because I don't know where it is and I also read that the fuel likes to squirt out. Could someone please help me locate it? I searched and couldn't get anything.

Modified by RB280SX at 12:00 AM 5/14/2006
Modified by RB280SX at 12:50 AM 5/14/2006

[wawazat8402]

Just unplug the fuel pump fuse and turn the car over. That will relieve the pressure out of the fuel lines, then do a compression check from there.

[RB280SX]

Btw, I had my friend watch me cranking the car and the belts on the pullies spun . However, I haven't taken the timing belt cover off. Am I safe or is there still a chance that the timing belt is fubar'd?

Also, if my engine overheated, there would be smoke coming from the engine correct?
Modified by RB280SX at 5:00 PM 5/14/2006

[rb20detsilvia]

if the timming belt was broke yes the belts would still spin they go around the crank and if it overheated the motor wouldnt always smoke

[RB280SX]

Wow. I'm guessing a compression test is going to be my best bet right now. Kind of sucks cause I'm at school and won't be home again until this weekend.

[RB280SX]

Btw, when I checked the spark plugs, there are no scorches or a tint that shows the motor has overheated. The plugs have carbon composits like crazy. I mean, it literally looks maybe alittle darker than...

Also, since the car did start but could not idle after the initial stall, I'm guessing that the timing belt is fine, it's just the fuel pump is whacko'd or the plugs have so much carbon that a clean spark can't go through.

[Eikon]

Wow... I've never seen such bad carbon build-up on a plug before. I'm assuming your going to get some new plugs.

I'm no expert by any means, but it seems to be electrical in nature. Since your engine will start and will turn (just for a bit at least) that proves that it's not seized up.

RB's are pretty hard to kill.

Begin with your starter motor. If that is working, move to your CAS. If that is working, try your ignitor pack. If you test the ignitor pack and that is fine, check your wiring and grounds on the coil pack harness.

My guess is that your starter or ignitor isn't grounded properly. Could also be your CAS isn't reading right. It's not sending back the proper timing signals to the ECU and the ECU is freaking out and cutting it off.

[rb20detsilvia]

LIke i said before start with the basics otherwise you will be chasing this problem forever see what your missing spark fuel timming compession if you have all those than it might be electrical after you where cranking and cranking did your plugs smell like fuel if not might be a fuel problem or if they did might be a spark issue but youi need to check the basics first did you pull off your cap and see if the cam was moving you need to post what you have checked