What members are journyman level techs as a career?
Oh, ok. Sorry, I didn't mean anything by that.NISTECH wrote:Nah just curious. Kinda want to see how many full time EXPERIANCED auto techs are really on this board.
Yeah, I am. Kinda new to 240s though. I just got involved here because I bought one and thought I'd see what goes on with them. I do like Nissans, they make some pretty good cars, but I'm cool with anything as long as its not a Ford.
Independant. I've only worked for independant shops. Mostly general stuff on domestics and some imports. I ended up doing most of the electrical work, because I was pretty good at it. I guess those few years studying electrical engineering helped. Then for a time I mostly did brake work and alignments. Now I just do general stuff. I'll end up with a dealership next year if I get into this luxury manufacturer program. I'm looking to hook up with BMW or Mercedes.
In most cases you start out at a dealer as a lube tech and go to training while you are employed there. In my opinion that is the best way to become truly experianced with the training you receive. If you attend technical training and complete all levels of training before you apply the knowledge at your finger tips some of that knowledge is lost. The way its done with nissan is much better I think. during the middle of the week you go to school for 2 or 3 days, all day long, then come back to work and apply it while its fresh in your mind. You then are more likely to retain that knowledge better.Which will make your job more profitable and easier then struggling with bits and peices of what you remember from up to 2 yrs before.
yep, i just got done with my sofmore (1rs year of auto, didnt have time last year) year of auto tech/service at highschool. my teacher was a factory tech with gm for 10 years, knows all the little tricks and shortcuts, i think i learned more in that class then any other that year. plus, i got access to a lift and tons of great quality ( snap on) tools all year for free! saved my self about 400 in labor. i may go into a dealer, but i really hope to get a degree in automotive engeneering from ga tech.
My advice if your going to take up a career in auto repair, get a part time job doing it while your in school. In school your instructor wont let you get lost in diagnostics he will point you in the right direction and tell you how and why you need to do certian things. BUT you will forget alot of what he tells you over time,this is what I am reffering to when I say bits and peices. You will remember what you did and not what he said to get you going down the right path of competent diagnosis. I see it too frequently and experianced it myself. About 14 yrs ago I spent 2 yrs going to automotive tech school at a local college. my instructors were master lines techs some on more then one line of car. They were awesome instructors. But when I got out in the feild after the schooling was over I struggled quite often due to what I had lost from not applying the knowledge for so long. It wasent till I got with nissan and truly applied what I was learning that I became proficent at it.
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ricebike
- Posts: 3381
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:03 pm
- Car: 1989 240sx se 5spd (donated to my brother in law)
2002 Quest
2005 Altima - Location: CNJ
chimin' in...
240, u can goto pepboys, or some other type of general repair shop w/ working papers from school... just show the potential employer that you're serious about entering the field; ie, recommendation from shop teacher, what you've learned-by-doin' & so forth... eventhough u will start as a tire/battery/lube tech, you can look over some master techs working/helping them out when it's slow, & learn more from them than any teacher/book...
i recalled, nistech, that u hated this industry??? well, hate is a strong word... but i'm still juggling wether to be in the repair or parts area... recently joined a new co doin wholesale parts delivery to local gas stations/garages as well as dealers...just to get opinions of techs vs. parts guys...
from what i've gathered soo far, some parts guys used to be techs, but the cost of tools, ongoin training, & some jobs that don't pay well d/t some flat rate vs actual time in repairing cars... forced them outta that industry & into the easier 'parts slinger' jobs...
bein' a service writer sux when i had to do it to temp replace some1 who quit w/out notice <they like what i was doin since i applied my parts counter trainin' w/ my tech trainin; i know how to get parts to techs w/out them twiddling their thumbs to maximize their productivity> but i hated when the service manager tries to push me into selling unwarranted service, cause they only think about $ profits... i wanted out right away, but the co was 'slow' in finding replacements <or they just wondered why i wanted to move back into parts, when i was doin ok in service> plus, I hate having to deal w/ some of those anal customers...ugh
240, u can goto pepboys, or some other type of general repair shop w/ working papers from school... just show the potential employer that you're serious about entering the field; ie, recommendation from shop teacher, what you've learned-by-doin' & so forth... eventhough u will start as a tire/battery/lube tech, you can look over some master techs working/helping them out when it's slow, & learn more from them than any teacher/book...
i recalled, nistech, that u hated this industry??? well, hate is a strong word... but i'm still juggling wether to be in the repair or parts area... recently joined a new co doin wholesale parts delivery to local gas stations/garages as well as dealers...just to get opinions of techs vs. parts guys...
from what i've gathered soo far, some parts guys used to be techs, but the cost of tools, ongoin training, & some jobs that don't pay well d/t some flat rate vs actual time in repairing cars... forced them outta that industry & into the easier 'parts slinger' jobs...
bein' a service writer sux when i had to do it to temp replace some1 who quit w/out notice <they like what i was doin since i applied my parts counter trainin' w/ my tech trainin; i know how to get parts to techs w/out them twiddling their thumbs to maximize their productivity> but i hated when the service manager tries to push me into selling unwarranted service, cause they only think about $ profits... i wanted out right away, but the co was 'slow' in finding replacements <or they just wondered why i wanted to move back into parts, when i was doin ok in service> plus, I hate having to deal w/ some of those anal customers...ugh
ricebike wrote:chimin' in...
240, u can goto pepboys, or some other type of general repair shop w/ working papers from school... just show the potential employer that you're serious about entering the field; ie, recommendation from shop teacher, what you've learned-by-doin' & so forth... eventhough u will start as a tire/battery/lube tech, you can look over some master techs working/helping them out when it's slow, & learn more from them than any teacher/book...
i recalled, nistech, that u hated this industry??? well, hate is a strong word... but i'm still juggling wether to be in the repair or parts area... recently joined a new co doin wholesale parts delivery to local gas stations/garages as well as dealers...just to get opinions of techs vs. parts guys...
from what i've gathered soo far, some parts guys used to be techs, but the cost of tools, ongoin training, & some jobs that don't pay well d/t some flat rate vs actual time in repairing cars... forced them outta that industry & into the easier 'parts slinger' jobs...
bein' a service writer sux when i had to do it to temp replace some1 who quit w/out notice <they like what i was doin since i applied my parts counter trainin' w/ my tech trainin; i know how to get parts to techs w/out them twiddling their thumbs to maximize their productivity> but i hated when the service manager tries to push me into selling unwarranted service, cause they only think about $ profits... i wanted out right away, but the co was 'slow' in finding replacements <or they just wondered why i wanted to move back into parts, when i was doin ok in service> plus, I hate having to deal w/ some of those anal customers...ugh
You have a good memory. I still do hate this industry. But I love the challenge of fixing F-ed up cars. That is the only reason I do it. I love tinkering with cars and doing things to them just to see how they would react to certain cirumstances,not your HP type stuff,stuff that makes the car not run correctly. That is the part of the job I love. The part I DO NOT like is the politics involved in the buisness. You touched on some of it with the pressure to sell things to the customer they dont need. That is only the tip of the iceberg though. Another is the pressure to get work pushed through the shop because the shop is not making the "projected income" for the month. This only leads to mistakes costing not only the tech money but also the shop he works at. Time needs to be allowed to do the best possible job with out failure.
Another even bigger problem is the dictatorship from the factories warrenty division, They are pencil pushers sitting behind a desk reading a book. They have no real world experiance working on cars and in most cases couldnt identify what certain things are under the hood of a car. Yet they dictate how much time it is going to take your to fix a car properly by reading a book. They claim to have master techs at their disposal but the master tech can only answer their question by the information they relay to them. If they dont know whats under the hood of a car,how can they accuratly discribe what the hell some tech 1000miles away is doing accuratly???? To add to that they want us to write damn novels about what we are doing to the car:rolleyes. Lets get real here we all know most auto techs are not english majors!I myself have never written a paper on thesis in my life. look at my spelling and grammer sometimes. It can be hidious at times.but I know people understand what I am saying unless of course they are over edimicated idoits and read letter for letter.
Honestly I do not wish this career on anybody purely due to the politics. But If your gonna do it go out there with the most powerful weapon you can and have all the certification you can so you can have some control of your surroundings. When you get to the point that people start telling you "This place would fall apart if you left" You must be doing something right because someone has enough respect for you to tell you that to your face. This puts you in position where you can ask for a bit more in compensation for your work. But even then you dont wanna go over board cause you may exceed their limitations on what they can afford. This depends on the size of the shop/company. You really just have to feel them out for it.
I have seen many many good techs bail on this buisness due to it being harder and harder to make good money at it or they reached the point they dont want to continue to learn and adapt Because of the constantly changing technology. A couple years ago I heard the average age of the dealer tech was 46yrs old!! That is a high number for this buisness and being the average life long tech gets out of wrenching by the time they are in their early 50's. Any young techs coming into the buisness do it for a couple years and want out because of the pressure or the fact they know they can make more money in computer industry and they dont have to buy $50,000 dollars worth of tools to do it.
I too often feel like quiting my job I get so pissed at the service office or higher up managerial desicions. I have just about locked up my box and walked out twice in the last 3 months. I even called another dealer closer to my house and inquired if they were hiring. I have been here over 5 yrs and have stomached quite a bit of crap from management hell we are on like our 3rd or 4th general manager in a yrs time. I dont know how long this guys gonna last but we will see. So far I have not been to happy with his handling of employees on a personal level but on a buisness level he has made some improvements in conjunction with our new service manager she has helped immensly as well.
Because she is new and making some positive improvements I am sticking this out a little longer with this shop But I am thinking of bailing on this place if the If the new GM does something harsh within my service team.
Ok thats enough rambling... You got me all fired up Rice...lol
NISTECH wrote: I have just about locked up my box and walked out twice in the last 3 months. I even called another dealer closer to my house and inquired if they were hiring. I have been here over 5 yrs and have stomached quite a bit of crap from management hell we are on like our 3rd or 4th general manager in a yrs time. I dont know how long this guys gonna last but we will see. So far I have not been to happy with his handling of employees on a personal level but on a buisness level he has made some improvements in conjunction with our new service manager she has helped immensly as well.
This is one of the reasons I like private shops. There is more stability and (if you are with good people) more respect for the workers. But you'll never get a lot of good equipment, or see newer cars. I've never worked for a dealer, because I've learned from others how ****ty they can be, but I'll probably end up there one of these days. I want to get some specialised training, and its just too expensive and time consuming to do on your own. What I'd like to do is work at a dealer for a couple years doing electronics/computer diagnostics and then open up a shop of my own with some friends of mine. We all work in the business and have expertise in different areas. We could have a place doing mechanical and body work. There's real good money in body work. And one of my friends owns his own place, so I might just go into business with him. The ultimate goal is to be one's own boss.
As far as education goes, I agree with nistech. Its definately better to work through school if you can. I went to tech school for two years and I can think of plenty of things I forgot once I got out. If you don't apply the things you learn on a regular basis, you just forget them. But I did work on cars some while going through school so that did help. I'd recommend to anyone who's going to tech school, and who doesn't work in the field, to at least work on things in the driveway. Maybe friends cars, maybe get a cheap old project car. You'd be surprised how much money you can make buying cars from people that don't run, then fix the little problems they have.
yes they do not supply you with tools. As a lube tech they might but that is near minimum wage. If you want to move up you need to purchase your own tools,depending on what your working on you could push 50 or 60k on a box and tools. It costs money to make money this is the reason I work in a dealer for a single line. I only have to have tools for nissans. You have no idea how many specialized tools there are for the different models of cars. In many cases a tool that is used on a nissan has no use on any other car. for that same part on another car may require a specail tool all its own.
no not the big stuff that is usually supplied by the shop. and the specialty tools[most of them] for the dealer you work for are supplied by the dealer. They are considered shop tools. I am just reffering to hand and power tools,good drivability diagnostic tools such as oscilliscopes,multimeters, having your own lap top[notebook pc] helps too.
Things like jacks and stands, scan tools and certain other things will usually be provided by the shop, but you'll have to get what ever goes in a toolbox. All wrenches, ratchets and sockets, screwdrivers, pliers, hammers, air tools, etc. Then there's more specialised stuff like brake tools, bearing packers, gear pullers, etc. And there is all the testing equipment and gauges you need to test fuel pressure, vacuum, compressions, oil pressure, A/C line pressure, etc. You'll need a multimeter, and maybe more than one. You'll a dozen different kinds/length leads for it, and some jumper wires.T hen the manufacturer specific tools, like nistech mentioned. Some tools you'll need for only specific cars, or specific engines, to remove some little part or install it.
Then, you have to buy the tool box to put it all in, and those can cost you thousands. And don't forget about all the variations of the same tools. You won't just have a 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" drive ratchets. You'll have all of them but also some of them with short handle designs, or swivel heads. You'll have extensions of every length and design. You'll have five different kinds of 10mm wrenches, and short sockets, deep sockets, impact sockets.
Then, you have to buy the tool box to put it all in, and those can cost you thousands. And don't forget about all the variations of the same tools. You won't just have a 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" drive ratchets. You'll have all of them but also some of them with short handle designs, or swivel heads. You'll have extensions of every length and design. You'll have five different kinds of 10mm wrenches, and short sockets, deep sockets, impact sockets.
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stash420sx
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 1:05 pm
i went to tech school for two years and worked in a garage at the same time. anyway, I have only a few thousand invested in tools right now. Mostly craftsmen and snap on. Bought a used box, some used tools etc. Alot of guys have $10k just in the tool box alone. I just cant see myself doing that, im working to buy myself stuff for outside of work. Techs should get paid more, we have to learn more and more **** every year to stay up to date, stay certified, invests 10 of thousands of dollers in tools, and take responsibility when someones 30,000 doller car breaks down after you work on it. anyway, im a kia tech with 5 ase's so far.
Stash you touched on something I would like to do and is kinda the insperation for this thread. to see how many guys we got on here wrenching and that hold some weight where they work[at least with the other techs]. I would like to see some changes in the work place myself. But it would take unity for it to really work;)
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ricebike
- Posts: 3381
- Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:03 pm
- Car: 1989 240sx se 5spd (donated to my brother in law)
2002 Quest
2005 Altima - Location: CNJ
haha, good points guys...thanx for the insights...
240kid, think of going into sears/ntb... then u can get mad discounts on tools... i am thinking of doing this on the weekends while staying @ my new company driving a new hyndai accent to the area garages. this way, i get to know the area & how each garage/shop are doin... then start to network from there...
auto tech school...yup i already forgot what i've learned in automatic transmissions class... & the snap-on student discount was still high in comparison to craftsman/sears/homedepot/lowes/etc...
PS: i too hate writing essays for college... i'm a "do'er" not a 'talker'
sux that after 2 weeks, one or 2 coworkers feel threatened by me just cause I have the type of personality that wants to learn everything about the biz... i'd actually goto a computer terminal & look up parts myself sometimes... u guys heard of the triad system?
hmm, mebbe i should apply to cherry hill nissan <nj> as a parts guy... the freedom of choices...
edit: i actually stumbled into the field just to save my family some $; thought they were getting ripped off since some of those jobs came so easy for me... but, after a few years in parts/service, now knows y some charges that much $ & do appreciate how involved some of those jobs are to be worth paying the premium.
my bro did get ripped off by an independent shop... replaced an egr valve on a vehicle that was still under warranty <he was stupid; didn't read the papers & didn't go to the dealer> but that shop should have notified him of that fact.... & here i am now.
240kid, think of going into sears/ntb... then u can get mad discounts on tools... i am thinking of doing this on the weekends while staying @ my new company driving a new hyndai accent to the area garages. this way, i get to know the area & how each garage/shop are doin... then start to network from there...
auto tech school...yup i already forgot what i've learned in automatic transmissions class... & the snap-on student discount was still high in comparison to craftsman/sears/homedepot/lowes/etc...
PS: i too hate writing essays for college... i'm a "do'er" not a 'talker'
sux that after 2 weeks, one or 2 coworkers feel threatened by me just cause I have the type of personality that wants to learn everything about the biz... i'd actually goto a computer terminal & look up parts myself sometimes... u guys heard of the triad system?
hmm, mebbe i should apply to cherry hill nissan <nj> as a parts guy... the freedom of choices...
edit: i actually stumbled into the field just to save my family some $; thought they were getting ripped off since some of those jobs came so easy for me... but, after a few years in parts/service, now knows y some charges that much $ & do appreciate how involved some of those jobs are to be worth paying the premium.
my bro did get ripped off by an independent shop... replaced an egr valve on a vehicle that was still under warranty <he was stupid; didn't read the papers & didn't go to the dealer> but that shop should have notified him of that fact.... & here i am now.
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stash420sx
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 1:05 pm
thanks man, glad i could help with the thread. Ive only worked at dealerships, so i cant really speak for private shop experience. Its not really like fixing a car in your driveway on the weekends, obiously. I had to learn to pace myself, and not wound myself. All while trying to get the job done in the aloted time so my efficiency and productivity look good, and soon so i get paid good. Oh, and i almost forgot, confidently quickly and efficiently diagnose the car correctly the first time without throwing a bunch of unnecassary parts at it. on a lighter note, ive pretty much been hired at every shop I applied at.
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stash420sx
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 1:05 pm
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s13sr20chris
- Posts: 4148
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- Car: '89 Nissan S13 w/redtop running 13psi and not leaking fuel anymore
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i went to car school in high school and it was nice. it helped me piss off all the techs at my first job as an oil changer at a caddy dealer. i would come over and give them the textbook diagnosis. they would get mad and make me leave. i just walked off thinking i was right. then i moved up to line tech and found out why they got mad. i was living in textbook land. reality is an important aspect of this business. i strongly suggest trying it out for a while before you spend too much money on school. school is good though. i can handle the politics but i do hate them. i dont intend to do customer work forever. i will do it for many a year though. my wife is about to have our first child and i dont have the option of changing careers now. all in all, i love wrenching on cars and i love knowing more about nissans that 99% of the people i run into. gotta go to work now.
stash420sx wrote:nistech, i just reread your post. This unity you speak of, are you sugesting a union?
No not a union per say,unions suck. Just a common ground or set of standards all techs should require when seeking employment or working in a particular place. Basicaly a set of guidlines cause if all techs that show up on an employers door step want certain things to take the job the employer is forced to provide them. like pay increases at particular intervals. Technicians today are becomeing more and more hard to find. Out here it is near impossible to find a good drivability tech[and I mean a good one]. This is due to most of them bailing out of the buisness due to the work conditions. With this going on it would not be difficult to make dealers or other shops step up and pay these guys what their worth.
Thats what I am talking about...lol
What will be needed is SOME organization to do something about putting some standards in writing. The government isnt going to do it, because that is what unions are for. (Please god, leave unions out of it) But some organization will have to get involved to make it happened. Maybe ASE, or SAE. SAE would have the background, size and clout, but I don't know that they would care.