What members are journyman level techs as a career?
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stash420sx
- Posts: 124
- Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 1:05 pm
Oh I agree on the union thing It costs more to be apart of one then its worth to be employed under one there are no real benifits.
If there was a way to unite techs nationwide to not take jobs that dont pay properly for the position or that puts them in conditions unfavorable or unsafe. At the current declining rate of techs this would not be difficult to put shop owners in the position that the only way to get techs in their shops they would have to meet the demands of the tech force or find them selfs going upside down in buisness hiring techs who dont know jack and have very expensive comebacks.
And I am not reffering to a union. This would be more of a code of conduct techs follow when seeking employment. It would be done word of mouth much like we are talking here.
I kinda started this thread with this in mind but to also see how other techs feel about their shops and how they are treated by management Or how they feel of the demands of the general public.
I see an oppertunity to change things ,take advantage of circumstances and make it more profitable to be a skilled tech.Cause if it doesnt change soon there isnt gonna be any real good techs left.
Think about this ,people with an equal maybe lessor skill level sit at a desk in A/C,or heated room and perform very technical work on computers or networks. They work with computers that do not do any real physical work. These guys in many cases make twice what we do. Yet we work in just about outside temp buildings. with the technical knowledge that matches or exceeds that of the desk jockey fixing software. Our computer systems have to be able to propell them selfs down the road, many our computers are physically moving many parts to accomplish that task. To top it off our computers are not sitting in one spot in a tempeture controlled enviroment. therefore our systems have many more variables of failure since they are exposed to extreme conditions. And we have to be trained to fix these computers on steriods in the less then perfect conditions and are subjected to a much higher level of pressure then the jockey at HP,Apple or other comp firm that is fixing the desktop or other computerized product that failed. Can you see us telling the customer"Yes sir it will take 4 to 6 weeks to ship it back to you." Yeah right. Try getting your lawn mower,computer,dishwasher,washer,or tv fixed on a saturday anywhere!! let alone with in a week...LMAO
If any one disagrees with my comments above please reply with why you feel it is out of line. thats why I made this thread
If there was a way to unite techs nationwide to not take jobs that dont pay properly for the position or that puts them in conditions unfavorable or unsafe. At the current declining rate of techs this would not be difficult to put shop owners in the position that the only way to get techs in their shops they would have to meet the demands of the tech force or find them selfs going upside down in buisness hiring techs who dont know jack and have very expensive comebacks.
And I am not reffering to a union. This would be more of a code of conduct techs follow when seeking employment. It would be done word of mouth much like we are talking here.
I kinda started this thread with this in mind but to also see how other techs feel about their shops and how they are treated by management Or how they feel of the demands of the general public.
I see an oppertunity to change things ,take advantage of circumstances and make it more profitable to be a skilled tech.Cause if it doesnt change soon there isnt gonna be any real good techs left.
Think about this ,people with an equal maybe lessor skill level sit at a desk in A/C,or heated room and perform very technical work on computers or networks. They work with computers that do not do any real physical work. These guys in many cases make twice what we do. Yet we work in just about outside temp buildings. with the technical knowledge that matches or exceeds that of the desk jockey fixing software. Our computer systems have to be able to propell them selfs down the road, many our computers are physically moving many parts to accomplish that task. To top it off our computers are not sitting in one spot in a tempeture controlled enviroment. therefore our systems have many more variables of failure since they are exposed to extreme conditions. And we have to be trained to fix these computers on steriods in the less then perfect conditions and are subjected to a much higher level of pressure then the jockey at HP,Apple or other comp firm that is fixing the desktop or other computerized product that failed. Can you see us telling the customer"Yes sir it will take 4 to 6 weeks to ship it back to you." Yeah right. Try getting your lawn mower,computer,dishwasher,washer,or tv fixed on a saturday anywhere!! let alone with in a week...LMAO
If any one disagrees with my comments above please reply with why you feel it is out of line. thats why I made this thread
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s13sr20chris
- Posts: 4148
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i think a union would be ideal IF...the union existed as unions were originally set up to operateunions were not granted rediculous powers by labor vote seekersthis were a perfect world
not gonna happen. sucks. i am a firm believer in free enterprise, but also in a "true labor union". the true labor union just cant exist in a society that has drifted so far from what the founding fathers envisioned.my two red cents
not gonna happen. sucks. i am a firm believer in free enterprise, but also in a "true labor union". the true labor union just cant exist in a society that has drifted so far from what the founding fathers envisioned.my two red cents
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Magnes
- Posts: 101
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- Car: '89 240SX, done up with a chrome-plated ground wire to the engine.
I had given this a lot of thought a while back, and I have a suggestion that might be of interest.
First of all my background is as a non-accredited ex-race mechanic and fabricator, 6 years experience. Luckily I'm too tall to fit under a hoist so I don't have to even consider the possibility of wrenching for a living.
The essential problem as I see it is that customer expectations are way out of whack with reality. Shops are required by law to have the problem diagnosed and fixed within the cost limits of the estimate. With this, customers have shot themselves in the foot because it requires1* a great deal of time ($$$) spent diagnosing the problem, or2* a shot-in-the-dark guess that will come back to the shop.
Of course no one is prepared to pay the $$$ so in reality the number of misdiagnoses increase and customers get pissed, service shops get pressured and money gets wasted.
I imagine a way to meet the requirements of the law while providing customers with an honest and accurate estimate. Since any given problem can have several causes, an honest estimate would list all the potential causes, their cost, and the probability that any one of the fixes listed in the estimate will fix the problem.
You add up the probablilities so that at the bottom of the estimate you have a 100% total probability of fixing the problem, as required by law. The customer can choose, with the advice of the mechanic, which fix he wants to try first based on cost and likelyhood that it will fix the problem. More skilled and experienced shops will have shorter, less expensive totals, and in every case customers will be given a truer indication of the nature of auto repairs.
First of all my background is as a non-accredited ex-race mechanic and fabricator, 6 years experience. Luckily I'm too tall to fit under a hoist so I don't have to even consider the possibility of wrenching for a living.
The essential problem as I see it is that customer expectations are way out of whack with reality. Shops are required by law to have the problem diagnosed and fixed within the cost limits of the estimate. With this, customers have shot themselves in the foot because it requires1* a great deal of time ($$$) spent diagnosing the problem, or2* a shot-in-the-dark guess that will come back to the shop.
Of course no one is prepared to pay the $$$ so in reality the number of misdiagnoses increase and customers get pissed, service shops get pressured and money gets wasted.
I imagine a way to meet the requirements of the law while providing customers with an honest and accurate estimate. Since any given problem can have several causes, an honest estimate would list all the potential causes, their cost, and the probability that any one of the fixes listed in the estimate will fix the problem.
You add up the probablilities so that at the bottom of the estimate you have a 100% total probability of fixing the problem, as required by law. The customer can choose, with the advice of the mechanic, which fix he wants to try first based on cost and likelyhood that it will fix the problem. More skilled and experienced shops will have shorter, less expensive totals, and in every case customers will be given a truer indication of the nature of auto repairs.
i just read this long *** thread. it sure did help me decide on my future career. Nistech, when i grow up i want to be just like you. ive applied at 3 local nissan dealerships and have yet been given a chance. most of them are looking for shop experince and certs. i have more than 2 year of retail experience and personal experience from my SR20 swap. whats the best way to get in the door?
its my passion, i cant find myself sitting in front of a computer all day. during my swap (i did with no exp) i knew this was going to be my career. i understand how you feel about upper management makin stupid decisions. i feel the same way now when they tell me to sell warranties on our products. warranties are 100% profit and in most cases BS. corporate sucks. i need a new job
Well thats how it started for me in oh around 83, 84 I was out back with my dad putting the manifold back on his 73 satellite getting it ready for the races saturday night. He introduced me to this hell I live today. When we got done and we won 2 out of 3 races that saturday night,lost the third due to a flat tire and the only extra wheel/tire we had was also flat, I was hooked I was so amped we won the races and I truly believed I was at least partially responsable for it. I knew right then this is what I wanted to do. You want to know the difference, My dad showed me appreciation, he did not point out my faults,he gave me respect for my help,I was about 12 yrs old I didnt do much but the respect and appreciation he gave me and the rewards of being sucessful at bringing that car to life was awesome. I thought that was what it was all about becoming a mechanic.
OOOOOOPPPPSSSSSS!!!
OOOOOOPPPPSSSSSS!!!
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ricebike
- Posts: 3381
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- Car: 1989 240sx se 5spd (donated to my brother in law)
2002 Quest
2005 Altima - Location: CNJ
240... seriously join cwappy pepboys if its in your area or sears... i know peps have a reimbursement policy: u pass an ASE cert test & the company will give you your $ back= 'win-win'
while you're there doing easy grunt work @ the shop... study up, take those tests, then use those 'passed' test scores to show the dealers that u are 'serious' about comitting yourself into the depths of 'dealership-dom'
I didn't look up sears automotive benefits yet to say if it's the same program...
I've passed brakes, steering suspension, parts counter, & some other thing that i forgot... i only got an ase cert for parts counter since U need @ least 2 years in the field doing those jobs on top of passing...
i let them lapse & will have to start over now
while you're there doing easy grunt work @ the shop... study up, take those tests, then use those 'passed' test scores to show the dealers that u are 'serious' about comitting yourself into the depths of 'dealership-dom'
I didn't look up sears automotive benefits yet to say if it's the same program...
I've passed brakes, steering suspension, parts counter, & some other thing that i forgot... i only got an ase cert for parts counter since U need @ least 2 years in the field doing those jobs on top of passing...
i let them lapse & will have to start over now
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s13sr20chris
- Posts: 4148
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you may want to keep bugging the dealers. you can really work your way up to a line tech quick. just dont get offended if you are changing oil at first. it would not hurt to work at an indy shop like pep boys for a few months while you continue to bug the dealer service managers. its good that you love working on cars. can you hold on to that forever? only the good Lord knows. i dont yet hate this business. i have gotten to the point where i know i wont do it forever though. just as a reference for you, i have much less experience than NISTECH. i have 3 years with nissan, 1 with gm, a coulple months in vo tech training, and thats it. i am 24 years old, married 4 years, first child on the way, and a born again christian. i dont know if all that nails me down to a label or not but it may help you decide. if you do decide to be a tech. dont get your ase certs on day one. you wont get the respect you deserve but you will think you know it all. i was an ase master tech and state inspector right at my second year anniversary in the business. thats right i passed the tests right away and had to wait for the 2 years to get my certification. because of my age and lack of experience the service manager chalked it all up to test taking ability. i am just now getting a little respect and being considered as a potential team leader if the spot comes open. i am not complaining as i thought i knew it all when i got those ase certs. i thought i was the man. let me tell you, i am still not the man! the bible says "let no man think more of himself than he ought", and that is true. sorry for the long post.
Chris Makes some very good points. The certs mean absolutly nothing. They mean you read a book and studied to pass a test based on theroy. Any one who has wrenched for a period of time knows that theroy and reality are 2 totally different things. This being the reason several of us would love to choke the livin sh** out of some engineers....lol I too started this buisenss with a smog license and several ASE's already in my pocket on my first day. I claimed my experiance to meet the 2 yrs was based on my technical training in a local college and several years working on cars with my dad and my uncles from both sides of my family that were journey man techs. They accepted that as experiance. But once I put my hands on the cars I found out very quickly how little I really knew. Starting out as a lube tech in a dealer was the best place to start learning. It helps to find the knowledgeable guy in the shop to and ask him questions about stuff they have you do. You learn alot very quickly.
I dont really want to say I hate this industry. As the meat of it is what I love to do. When my hands are on my tools I love it. When I am sitting in the office listening to how managment wants to change this or do that and it adversely effects the flow of things we are doing in the shop that is what I cant stand. Or how nissans warrenty division [which is the same for all lines not just nissan] Dictates how long a job takes you or threats to audit your dealer cause you claims are too high?? They built and designed the cars that had serious engineering flaws. We are just fixing them. Those are the things I hate about the buisness not the work it self. Thats only the tip too I could go on listing things the pencil pushers do to make the job more difficult then it needs to be. Its purely the politics that get under my skin. Just leave me the hell alone and let me do what I am here to do. Thats my thinking.
I dont really want to say I hate this industry. As the meat of it is what I love to do. When my hands are on my tools I love it. When I am sitting in the office listening to how managment wants to change this or do that and it adversely effects the flow of things we are doing in the shop that is what I cant stand. Or how nissans warrenty division [which is the same for all lines not just nissan] Dictates how long a job takes you or threats to audit your dealer cause you claims are too high?? They built and designed the cars that had serious engineering flaws. We are just fixing them. Those are the things I hate about the buisness not the work it self. Thats only the tip too I could go on listing things the pencil pushers do to make the job more difficult then it needs to be. Its purely the politics that get under my skin. Just leave me the hell alone and let me do what I am here to do. Thats my thinking.
To 240dreams, just get a job where you can, don't worry about just working for Nissan. Most dealerships aren't going to be too keen on taking someone without experience, unless they have a low level slot that they really need to fill. You'll learn plenty working at Sears, or PepBoys, or NTB, etc. Then, you can try to get your foot into the door at a dealer. I have ASEs myself, and I do agree that they don't necessarily bring a lot of respect, however, diplomas can. I know a lot of dealerships that make sure you have a diploma from a tech school before they hire you, or at least give you a raise. You want consider going to a school. If you do, they always have career counselors that can help you find a job. I personally went to night school, so I could work full time during the day. If you do that, some dealers will see that as dedication and be more likely to hire you without experience, because they know you'll be learning a few things. It has also been my experience that certain dealerships have ties with certain schools and will hire people almost as favors to the school.
Nistech, you should try to find yourself a spot at a nice privately owned place. You won't have to deal with most of that crap. That is, as long as its run by good people. I've worked at some places that aren't and boy can it be aweful. But if its run by someone who knows what they're doing its much less hassle free. You don't have to deal with warranty issues, or manufacturer BS. The one thing I like about it is that you get to work on some many different kinds of cars, which can be fun. Unless its a Ford Taurus (aaahh, keep away!) But, you won't have access to all the latest and greatest. Hey, if you want, you can come work for me when I open my own place. I'll treat ya good. Can't promise I'll pay much though.
Nistech, you should try to find yourself a spot at a nice privately owned place. You won't have to deal with most of that crap. That is, as long as its run by good people. I've worked at some places that aren't and boy can it be aweful. But if its run by someone who knows what they're doing its much less hassle free. You don't have to deal with warranty issues, or manufacturer BS. The one thing I like about it is that you get to work on some many different kinds of cars, which can be fun. Unless its a Ford Taurus (aaahh, keep away!) But, you won't have access to all the latest and greatest. Hey, if you want, you can come work for me when I open my own place. I'll treat ya good. Can't promise I'll pay much though.
most small private shops dont have medical benifits,when you are the soul supporter of a family of four that dont work. but believe me thats the only reason I work for a larger dealer or I would be at a smaller shop. I have one right across the freeway that would give me a job right now, but the draw back is lack of medical. I have worked for a small privately owend shop but had to leave when my first son was born. He tried to find a plan him and other small shops in the area could go in on but it didnt work out.
This thread is truly deep and will help me decide my upcoming future. I appreciate the support and advice from you guys. My plan was to land a job at a local Nissan dealership as lube tech or something and work my way up. Unfortunately it wasnt as easy as i thought. Putting "completed an engine swap" on my resume and wearing a Nismo shirt seemed to do nothing. My other plan was to go to a local Community College and take their Nissan Pro Cap 2 year Program. At the moment, college seems to be my decision mainly for the long run. I just graduated from HS this year so life has arived and I have to do something.
Im not really into the whole party thing. Almost every aspect of my life revolves aroung my car or cars in general. Right now I have an awesome retail job. Ive been there for more than 2 years and I dont want to quit. The truth is, Im just not making enough. Making 7 dollars back in 10th grade was cool but 2 years later at $8.18 and 18 years old isnt gonna cut it. Truly tho, im not about the money. Thats why i chose auto tech as my future career. I dont want to dread going to work everyday. I know for sure this career is my passion and I "WILL" accomplish my goals to get there. Ill keep you guys updated when I do.
Thanks Nistech. I can imagine all the glory you get from helping ppl out. You go from helping someone with a CEL to career counseling. Getting my SR started for the first time was one of the biggest accomplishments in my life. That felt great. I want to get to the point when i doing this for someone else and at the same time getting paid for it. I will succeed and when i do ill let you know Nistech, trust me.
I have been reading this thread .And I have found this very informative .I got a question .I am an entry level tech .aka gruntman .my question is this when you start working at dealership or private owned company what is the least amount of pay you can expect .or rather whats the most you can expect to get .because right now I'm at a private owned shop and I feel I'm getting jerked for the amount of hours and labor I put in .I usually work 10hr days for 6 days a week and only getting $250.00 .
I hope that is after taxes. How much do you make an hour? Where I am at entry level people get 9-12 an hour, depending on with what company. On the lower end if you are with a dealer because of the benefits, but it depends. People doing C-level mechanic work (tires, suspensions, tune-ups, etc) would get more.
ATTN: Chris and other nissan techs.
A heads upNew module on NU Online. Located in the electrical specialist area,required for that cert,Its an online trining course for CAN system diag. Its 10 modules , If your proficent at can diagnosis you'll breeze right through it. If your unfamilier with it you'll be there awhile
A heads upNew module on NU Online. Located in the electrical specialist area,required for that cert,Its an online trining course for CAN system diag. Its 10 modules , If your proficent at can diagnosis you'll breeze right through it. If your unfamilier with it you'll be there awhile
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s13sr20chris
- Posts: 4148
- Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2003 9:32 am
- Car: '89 Nissan S13 w/redtop running 13psi and not leaking fuel anymore
- Contact:
NISTECH wrote:ATTN: Chris and other nissan techs.
A heads upNew module on NU Online. Located in the electrical specialist area,required for that cert,Its an online trining course for CAN system diag. Its 10 modules , If your proficent at can diagnosis you'll breeze right through it. If your unfamilier with it you'll be there awhile
thanks for the heads up. i will do it today when we are slow. we are slow like all day right now. too many techs...grrrrrr!
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s13sr20chris
- Posts: 4148
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- Car: '89 Nissan S13 w/redtop running 13psi and not leaking fuel anymore
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in my area of virginia the cost of living is so low and the number of technical people looking for jobs is so high that entry level techs with a 14mm wrench and oil filter pliers gets $7 and hour. if you have a little tool box and a socket set you get $8/hr. i have about $20,000 in tools plus lots of paper certs. guess what i make. $15/hr. nistech is prob laughing now.yeah, my pay is a joke. i just gave that info so you know not to come get a job in a heavily militarized area. here, parts changers are a dime a dozen. that makes us dedicated diagnosticians go cheap too because the dealership trys to make do without us.
s13sr20chris wrote:in my area of virginia the cost of living is so low and the number of technical people looking for jobs is so high that entry level techs with a 14mm wrench and oil filter pliers gets $7 and hour. if you have a little tool box and a socket set you get $8/hr. i have about $20,000 in tools plus lots of paper certs. guess what i make. $15/hr. nistech is prob laughing now.yeah, my pay is a joke. i just gave that info so you know not to come get a job in a heavily militarized area. here, parts changers are a dime a dozen. that makes us dedicated diagnosticians go cheap too because the dealership trys to make do without us.
I am not laughin as I know how much pay can vary cross country. The parts changer thing started happening at my dealer to but It came to a head when we became overwelmed with new model diagnostics you cant just throw parts at to fix. So now the dealer is desperatly seeking a diagnostic tech perferrably with nissan experiance.We had an add in the paper for a week with 0 responses. stating pay will be around the low 20's I am sure. The cost of living here is pretty high. you cant touch a livable house around my dealer for less then 350k ,we are talking 2 bed 1 bath old homes. I live 35 miles away from my job and you cant touch one here for less then 270K
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s13sr20chris
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