What does a 90-95 Q45 weigh?

[MinisterofDOOM]

Actually, it's a 3.7 now. The 3.5 version makes 250 ft-lb and the 3.2 makes 232.Still not bad output for it's size, but it's just not adequate for a 4000lb car.

I like the TL a lot. I'm not bashing the car, I'm boggling at the idea of a 4000lb V6 midsize sedan. Whatever happened to the spry little Honda? Even the Accord weighs 3400lb now, and it as a FOUR CYLINDER backing it!

[jimbyjimb]

Even a 3.5 or 3.7 is still astounding. We're talking a max displacement difference of 30.5 cu.in.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I know. I'm not complaining about the motor, I'm complaining about the weight of the car it's in. I'm not saying 270 ft-lb is bad from 3.7 liters. I'm saying 270 ft-lb is bad in 2 tons.

Heck, I'm not even saying that. What I'm saying is how the hell does a midsize V6 sedan weigh 4000lb?

Or, from an opposite perspective, the fact that our Qs only weigh as much as a midsize V6 sedan is impressive.

I wasn't going for an argument. I was agreeing with your point that the Q is impressively light for what it is.

[jimbyjimb]

It's funny to me how we, myself included, percieve things as arguments. I was only expressing a statement also, wasn't trying to spur any conflict. But yes, the Q is very impressively light, ESPECIALLY when considering how quiet it is inside. I haven't done much in it as far as interior work goes, since after 17 years it is still whisper quiet and rattle-less, but I imagine there must be two-cars worth of sound deadening in it. The Q really speaks highly of what was going on in Japanese auto design in the early 90's and late 80's. Every piece of plastic is still clean and attractive. Leather everywhere is unflawed but the front seats. No rattles or squeaks. I personally think that if the VH45 were placed on an aftermarket dyno that rodders use on SBC's and other performance tuned engines it would have well over 300hp the way it moves the car. It's got to be a solid 14's car stock and pulls like a banshee in the triple digits. What with all of the luxo items holding it down it has so very much potential even un-modded. This thing was built to have a blower strapped on, blockwise. I imagine yours with the 4.08 and custom exhaust probably scoots itself marvelously. I wonder if we could expect a supercharged Q to hit twenties on the freeway with a blower? I'll have to search the threads for info on what the turbo guys get.

[Johnny Rocket]

I am taking mine to the scale down.a pretty basic Q...but there is way over 300hp in my mind...a good chassis dyno will get pretty close and then add 20% for drivetrain loss and you will have some pretty close engine HP numbers.

This car is screaming for twin turbos......I might do it because of the potential..it will be cost prohibitive for most people but I will share the build if I do it.

The car needs some top feed injectors and a state of the art ECU especially if your going to turbo it....Mass air flow wont work very well for a real killer system.

A turbo car loves weight......this car is perfect for that... A turbo car would make this car seemed like it weighs about 1000 pounds

[maxnix]

I love the twin turbo idea (small with lower CR pistons and intercooler) but I don't understand why top feed injectors are inherently better than side feed. I am sure side feed were used to keep the intake manifold from being too high.

[jimbyjimb]

I love turbos too, but my question is why turbos everywhere rather than blowers? Maybe because turbos are "more efficient" because they're exhaust driven? I put that in quotes because as far as I know the boat is still out on whether turbos really are more efficient. There are convincing arguments both ways. Perhaps its the scream turbos make rather than the whine? I will admit turbos sound alot cooler with the blowoff valves and high pitched screaming. Diesel turbos sound extra sweet. Nothing quite like a 15 liter inline six revving up to a whopping 1900 RPM putting out 2000+ ft lbs of torque! I suppose the only reason I'd want a blower is because they're harder to find these days so it would make the Q stand out a bit more. The whine does get annoying. I think, quite possibly, the sweetest engine I've ever heard was a last generation Ford F350 International turbo. Holy crap was that thing harsh. Had the biggest Roar I've ever heard from that displacement out back with that signature diesel clack-a-lack out front. It had some Banks parts with a serious 5 inch exhaust job. Whoa, way off topic. Moving on...

[maxnix]

Why small turbos to get the low down instantaneous response and increased torque without lag or the parasitic drag of a blower.

Turbos are more efficient, especially if tuned for torque and not top end power, which is great on the track, not so good for street where it is rarely used.

[MR. Q]

The Q45 was better than the jag, merc, & audi check youtube. Heavy Body Whips!

[jimbyjimb]

Blowers have 0 lag since they produce most of their boost at idle. Turbos have lag. I know turbo lag is minute with twins, but blowers still put out way more boost at idle. In my experience an 8 psi blower will produce 5 or 6 from idle, turbos would do 2, for example. Some even believe turbos rob power due to exhaust restriction to counter the claim that blowers rob power from being belt driven. The blower vs. turbo argument is so detailed and untested it could go on for days. There are advantages to either, anyway. I've worked on and driven both, but never of comparable boosts or displacements.

[Infinitiguy19]

I am with you, I love super chargers and they sound better in my opinion than a turbo. Because hearing a turbo on a old chevy engine is weird because when I think of turbo I think of imports, When I hear super charger I think of domestic and of course power.

But You can always have a supercharger for the idle to low end power, then have a single large tubo for the top end power.

If someone does that to there Q45 then I would'nt even know how to celerbrate because I would be so suprised.

[jimbyjimb]

I've seen dual blowers and 1 turbo per cylinder on a ten cylinder but never a turb AND blower. Thats crazy. It is doable, but just plain wierd. As a side note the world's most powerful stock bottom end engine is a 289 Studebaker bored and twin turbo'd. Has 40psi on it. In theory a 232 with a 259 crank can take 70 psi though no one has built it. Stude engine are amazing. The VH45 isn't far off except for the head design is the weakest point as far as boost goes. Need's another bolt and different valve angles.

[Infinitiguy19]

Need's another bolt.

What do you mean by that?

I defintaly think upgraded cams for the top end and pistons for the low end would make the engine pretty strong. But what kind of power could we expect from my kind of set up?

[jimbyjimb]

I mean another bolt per cylinder on the head to keep the head sealed thoroughly for extreme boost. The VH45 is technically a big block engine due to the mains being flush with the block, and the six bolt mains are extreme as is the forged crank. Bottom end it needs nothing to take serious punishment. The only weak part of the engine is the heads, and even they aren't all thatb weak compared to over 90% of whats out there. I don;t think most people understand how truly wonderful the VH45 is in design and craftsmanship. It is WAY overbuilt for what it is and can handle much more than I've ever seen anyone do with it. These bad boys can really take a beating.

[Infinitiguy19]

Thats is very true but the transmissions they paired them with can only handle 300HP and anything after that they fail. No idea though if that is the same with a brand new transmission and a already used on.

[jimbyjimb]

That really is the only limiting factor with the Q. The soft drivetrain.

[Infinitiguy19]

But a Q45 with a 5 speed or 6 speed with supercharger and turbo, Well that's hell on wheels in the best sleeper ever. Just would need a better differential.

What would suck though is the blower would stick out and that would defeat the sleeper idea.

[jimbyjimb]

My dream Q is a 4 speed, corvette IRS, and underhood blower

[Infinitiguy19]

Why 4 speed?

A/T or M/T?

And why Corvette IRS?

[jimbyjimb]

Manual. Overdrive gears make transmissions weaker, so I tend to side with the Germans on using a high final drive and lower transmission gears. The Q with enough power really wouldn't need the extra weight of a 5 or 6 speed. I care little for super low end power, so I would probably ideally have 2.76 or higher as a final drive with 4th gear as a 1:1 ratio. I like the old-school 60's style corvette IRS since it is essentially a Chev 12-bolt diff with double U-jointed driveshafts instead of CV's. Much heavier but rediculously stout for an IRS.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I've always preferred blowers over turbos as well. They suit my tastes better. I've always been a low-end power guy, which leaves me sort of the odd man out in the Japanese car world where peaky low-displacement powerplants are nicely complemented by peaky turbos.

Turbos can certainly lead to nice torque curves (look at the Cobalt SS for instance, with 260t-lb at 2000rpm), but supercharged V8s and turbo 4s are entirely different worlds. Especially when you're dealing with such a broad-ranged V8 as the VH, which couples low-end torque AND high end hp nicely (maybe not out of the box, but a mere ECU tune removes the "gap" and leaves you climbing through the whole tach with plenty of thrust). If I were to build a monster VH, it'd have a high-rpm valvetrain for 8000rpm redline and a blower for monster torque off the line. Perfection.

If course, if you really want to get crazy, you can combine a roots blower and a big turbo for maximum enhancement at both ends.

[Johnny Rocket]

I've always preferred blowers over turbos as well. They suit my tastes better. I've always been a low-end power guy, which leaves me sort of the odd man out in the Japanese car world where peaky low-displacement powerplants are nicely complemented by peaky turbos.

Turbos can certainly lead to nice torque curves (look at the Cobalt SS for instance, with 260t-lb at 2000rpm), but supercharged V8s and turbo 4s are entirely different worlds. Especially when you're dealing with such a broad-ranged V8 as the VH, which couples low-end torque AND high end hp nicely (maybe not out of the box, but a mere ECU tune removes the "gap" and leaves you climbing through the whole tach with plenty of thrust). If I were to build a monster VH, it'd have a high-rpm valvetrain for 8000rpm redline and a blower for monster torque off the line. Perfection.

I have built a couple of turbo cars.....all of them making well over 1000 hp...one of them with a displacment of 250 inchs and another with a 400 cu in displacment. The little engine made 1400 Hp and the larger around 2500 hp...both of them seen several hundred street miles.

All I do is hang around V8 turbo guys.

A blower engine will really screw up the look of most cars..unless your ok with a big ugly cowl and none of them make much power. Any refined engine for example from BMW etc will have twin tubos so that should tell you something.

Its all about the size in the turbo& wastegates......I would never want any kind of bumped up hooded noisey supercharged car when a properly sized turbo will rip you neck off in comparison to a supercharger.

You get to keep the hood flat and you have an almost noisless engine that will make you crap your pants upon hitting the loud pedal...superchargers are for guys with boats... and who want to look cool at cruise nights

Turbos belong on real street cats that like the sleeper look...and will go for 100k miles..They are priceless.......and if you have never had the chance to take a ride or drive something around 1000 hp you will never have any idea of what I am talking about.

The Q car is a natural for twin turbos. The VH is a perfect engine for turbos...this engine will make an easy 1000 hp on some pump E85

I have not seen a Q the way I think it should be done yet....I will do my Q but I have another twin turbo I have to finish building first...

You can keep your superchargers......

Ideal QTwin 50mm with some built in wastegates with some top feed injectorswith the chevy 480LE trans all controled by a BS3 ECU which will control the trans shifts as well. The engine needs nothing but lowering some CR and a forged piston......stock cams are perfect.

[jimbyjimb]

There are underhood blowers that take up much less room than a twin turbo setup would. People were and still are making TONS of hp with blowers, on average probably more than turbo's even still since it's older tech. The most powerful engines in the world are blown, not turbo'd. Funny cars. 8000+ hp. Blown and carbureted. I'm not knocking turbos, I love them, but any argument anyone can make about a turbo engine making more power can be and probably will be countered since I'd wager there are many more engines, especially in drag racing, making way bigger power with roots blowers. I don't know why, but it is a fact that the world's most powerful "gasoline" engines are roots blown. I'm sure there are comparative turbo engines out there, but turbos are still new compared to the roots. Mercedes still build a mean blown engine. Because they do the same thing two similar engines equipped with comparable blower/turbo setups will probably make very similar output. That is a test I've never seen. I'd like to.

[maxnix]

My dream is a corvette IRS

The G50 multilink is much more sophisticated than the Corvette's transverse leaf spring.

[jimbyjimb]

Nobody on this forum can dispute your mighty Google skills. I'm talking about a carrier and driveshafts, not suspension. It is a dream concept. Anything can be done through fabrication with the proper amounts of skill and money. I never said anything about adopting the transverse leaf, and I don't care what you have to say about my dream Q. Think bigger and use less Google.

[Infinitiguy19]

There are underhood blowers that take up much less room than a twin turbo setup would. People were and still are making TONS of hp with blowers, on average probably more than turbo's even still since it's older tech. The most powerful engines in the world are blown, not turbo'd. Funny cars. 8000+ hp. Blown and carbureted. I'm not knocking turbos, I love them, but any argument anyone can make about a turbo engine making more power can be and probably will be countered since I'd wager there are many more engines, especially in drag racing, making way bigger power with roots blowers. I don't know why, but it is a fact that the world's most powerful "gasoline" engines are roots blown. I'm sure there are comparative turbo engines out there, but turbos are still new compared to the roots. Mercedes still build a mean blown engine. Because they do the same thing two similar engines equipped with comparable blower/turbo setups will probably make very similar output. That is a test I've never seen. I'd like to.

Such as this:

[jimbyjimb]

Tasteful. That's a centrifugal type blower. They look like a belt driven turbo. That is a beautiful piece of work. Real pro job.

[qsiguy]

I've seen dual blowers and 1 turbo per cylinder on a ten cylinder but never a turb AND blower....

I saw this at the Sema show 2007. Dodge Charger, twin turbos and supercharger. Wasn't done yet but mocked up for the show.

[jimbyjimb]

That is pretty f'n cool, but why? Just to be crazy I suppose. These days it's just as easy to make HP with one blower or one turbo. I think they only do it because it looks crazy awesome. Which it does. What a wild world sometimes...

[maxnix]

I've seen dual blowers and 1 turbo per cylinder on a ten cylinder but never a turb AND blower.

VW has a I4 with supercharger (for low end launch) and turbo (for high end power) not available in US.