What a bunch of crybabies...

[Jesda]

Ack! Stop it, Jesda! Stop!

*pretending that's some sort of spreadable cheese*

If eggs could make cheese

[themadscientist]

The mad one needs only a sturdy vessel, a star to steer her by, a barrel of rum, and a fine wench. Oh, and my gloomy bear for nap time,,uh, YAAARRRGGHHH!

[Bubba1]

[
That's not the point.

I didn't say anything critical of Carnival or their handling of the situation. I think Carnival acted graciously and professionally.

I'm being critical of the bunch of spoiled, self-important douchebags that should be glad they're alive, NOT complaining and whining to everyone and anyone about their "ordeal". An "inconvenience" does NOT a crisis make.

Like I said, they can all EAD. If I was the Captain, I'd have said, "Don't want to be here? Start swimming."

Do you think it was it more passengers whining or more the relentless 24/7 press coverage shoving microphones in passenger faces upon arrival asking for descriptions in order to get soundbytes to sensationalize a very unusual event? I think its more the latter with some agressive news sources emphasizing the negative aspects.

[PoorManQ45]

Read closely: The LEGAL contract supersedes their silly imaginary "expectations".

Isn't that walking a fine line though. When it comes to the service industry there are certain things that fall under "reasonable expectation" that can not be brushed away with fine print.

Such things as valet parking lots having fine print on their stubs saying that they are not responsible for any damages or theft that occur while the vehicle is in their facility. This is invalid due to the mere expectation of security.

Please go easy on me, maybe I'm drawing a parallel where there shouldn't be one.

[ADDirishboy]

Isn't that walking a fine line though. When it comes to the service industry there are certain things that fall under "reasonable expectation" that can not be brushed away with fine print.

Such things as valet parking lots having fine print on their stubs saying that they are not responsible for any damages or theft that occur while the vehicle is in their facility. This has been proven invalid due to the mere expectation of security.

Please go easy on me, maybe I'm drawing a parallel where there shouldn't be one.

Valet parking does not cover anything that happens to your vehicle while it is parked. Now, if a valet is driving your car and damages it, they will pay. But if it is in the lot and an angry ex gf slashes all 4 of your tires, you're s*** outta luck. (That actually happened when I used to valet.)

[PoorManQ45]

Valet parking does not cover anything that happens to your vehicle while it is parked. Now, if a valet is driving your car and damages it, they will pay. But if it is in the lot and an angry ex gf slashes all 4 of your tires, you're s*** outta luck. (That actually happened when I used to valet.)

Now you made me look it up...

The answer is that it depends on the state you're in. Here's a quote, "The courts reasoned that a parking garage acts as a professional bailer, and cannot waive its duties even where it expressly tells the customer that it is doing so. That is, a business whose manifest function is to care for cars cannot absolve itself of liability for performing that function in a manner that causes damages to vehicles. Ohio courts are outspoken in their criticism for these bald attempts to shift the burden to care for a car back onto the consumer. In these states, the waivers of liability have no effect.

Even in states where the waiver of liability has an effect, those states generally agree that the waiver does not apply to damages to the car caused by the intentional or negligent actions of the garage employees. The law generally does not allow you to waive liability for damages caused by your own negligence. If this were possible, then every business could just post a generic waiver of liability for everything they do, and customers would never have any recourse. Courts have universally held that such a scheme cannot really work, and customers need protection. "

[AZhitman]

Read closely: The LEGAL contract supersedes their silly imaginary "expectations".

Isn't that walking a fine line though. When it comes to the service industry there are certain things that fall under "reasonable expectation" that can not be brushed away with fine print.

For once, you are kinda onto something. The "fine print" always prevails in a court - but the court of public opinion is far more powerful.

My point was, they're in no position to make demands... their overdramatizations were what disgusted me... AND, they were OVERLY compensated as far as I'm concerned.

BTW, that opinion you cited was brilliantly written.

[ADDirishboy]

That sounds wrong for some reason. Valet parking isn't there to protect your vehicle. They're there for convenience. Not to watch over the Taurus you rented from the airport.

Maybe it's just an AZ thing? Cause I have worked as a valet and as an insurance claims rep, and I have never seen a valet company pay for damages, theft, etc to a vehicle while parked in te valet lot. It's not like your car gets parked in a fenced off portion, just a part of the parking lot that is designated for valet.

[PoorManQ45]

For once, you are kinda onto something. The "fine print" always prevails in a court - but the court of public opinion is far more powerful.

My point was, they're in no position to make demands... their overdramatizations were what disgusted me... AND, they were OVERLY compensated as far as I'm concerned.

Understood. They should really shut up about the whole thing. A refund for the tickets would have been sufficient(maybe not required, but good practice). Carnival refunding travel expenses, tickets, and giving free tickets was extremely generous!

I do have to wonder how much of these stories are just news networks fishing for drama and even stirring the pot.

That sounds wrong for some reason. Valet parking isn't there to protect your vehicle. They're there for convenience. Not to watch over the Taurus you rented from the airport.

Maybe it's just an AZ thing? Cause I have worked as a valet and as an insurance claims rep, and I have never seen a valet company pay for damages, theft, etc to a vehicle while parked in te valet lot. It's not like your car gets parked in a fenced off portion, just a part of the parking lot that is designated for valet.

It seems to vary by state

[ADDirishboy]

Even in states where the waiver of liability has an effect, those states generally agree that the waiver does not apply to damages to the car caused by the intentional or negligent actions of the garage employees. The law generally does not allow you to waive liability for damages caused by your own negligence. If this were possible, then every business could just post a generic waiver of liability for everything they do, and customers would never have any recourse. Courts have universally held that such a scheme cannot really work, and customers need protection. "

You ninja edited this part in there, ya bastard.

Obviously if it's an employee who causes the damage it's a different story. But if it's just a vehicle that is parked and some random person busts out a window and steals your iPod, the company shouldn't be liable.

[themadscientist]

Hey! The Taurus is a fine automobile and announces to the world you are a practical guy, but not afraid to pay a little more sometimes for the "luxuries."

Just look at the corinthian pleather and woodlike appliques. That's a quality pebblegrain ABS dashboard son with AM/FM cassette with presets.

[PoorManQ45]

Even in states where the waiver of liability has an effect, those states generally agree that the waiver does not apply to damages to the car caused by the intentional or negligent actions of the garage employees. The law generally does not allow you to waive liability for damages caused by your own negligence. If this were possible, then every business could just post a generic waiver of liability for everything they do, and customers would never have any recourse. Courts have universally held that such a scheme cannot really work, and customers need protection. "

You ninja edited this part in there, ya bastard.

Obviously if it's an employee who causes the damage it's a different story. But if it's just a vehicle that is parked and some random person busts out a window and steals your iPod, the company shouldn't be liable.

I wonder though, how does this apply to locations that are valet only, no self parking allowed, and not mixing with non-valet cars. Meaning the valet company pretty much manages the entire garage.

Hey! The Taurus is a fine automobile and announces to the world you are a practical guy, but not afraid to pay a little more sometimes for the "luxuries."

Agreed! The old SHO was nice!

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

Read closely: The LEGAL contract supersedes their silly imaginary "expectations".

I agree they were overcompensated...but that was Carnival's way of saving face and retaining customers, so no need to blame the passengers, and it's hard to place a value on the passenger's lost vacation time.
Yeah, when anyone get's a mic shoved in their face from CNN, you start getting a little emotional. I was saying consumers have an obligation as a consumer to report (complain) any instances where services rendered did not live up to expectations.

I just don't see how you are condemning these passengers for voicing their opinion for services rendered. Their trip wasn't what they were expecting/told, they complained, how is that a condemnable offense? If I request my burger to come sans mustard, you better believe I'm taking it back and demanding another one.

[AZhitman]

I just don't see how you are condemning these passengers for voicing their opinion for services rendered. Their trip wasn't what they were expecting/told, they complained, how is that a condemnable offense? If I request my burger to come sans mustard, you better believe I'm taking it back and demanding another one.

Because it's not like they had a bad experience because of crappy service - THE DAMN SHIP CAUGHT FIRE.

If you specify "no mustard", and you get mustard, that is a failure in listening, which is a hallmark of a service industry. It is an issue in which the server FAILED to provide you with what you asked for, and it's directly attributable to their FAILURE to listen. In other words, it could easily be prevented.

This wasn't a failure to provide good service - THE SHIP CAUGHT FIRE.

Would you be so protective of them if they'd whined that it rained while they were in Cozumel? No? Why not?

I'd hope not - Because you can't control the weather, that's why.

Did you actually read any of the articles? See any of the interviews? These people acted like they were going to die. "Worst experience of my life" said one. "A living hell" said another.

They can GTFO of my face with that whiny nonsense. God forbid any of them ever experience a REAL crisis.

Crybabies.

[Bubba1]

I just don't see how you are condemning these passengers for voicing their opinion for services rendered. Their trip wasn't what they were expecting/told, they complained, how is that a condemnable offense? If I request my burger to come sans mustard, you better believe I'm taking it back and demanding another one.

Because it's not like they had a bad experience because of crappy service - THE DAMN SHIP CAUGHT FIRE.

If you specify "no mustard", and you get mustard, that is a failure in listening, which is a hallmark of a service industry. It is an issue in which the server FAILED to provide you with what you asked for, and it's directly attributable to their FAILURE to listen. In other words, it could easily be prevented.

This wasn't a failure to provide good service - THE SHIP CAUGHT FIRE.

Would you be so protective of them if they'd whined that it rained while they were in Cozumel? No? Why not?

I'd hope not - Because you can't control the weather, that's why.

Did you actually read any of the articles? See any of the interviews? These people acted like they were going to die. "Worst experience of my life" said one. "A living hell" said another.

They can GTFO of my face with that whiny nonsense. God forbid any of them ever experience a REAL crisis.

Crybabies.

Methinks you're being influenced a bit by some of the press presentations here. Rewatching the CNN article, for example. Only 1 guy appeared to whine. But before making that one guy walk the plank for being a crybaby, keep in mind thats a 10 second sound byte that could easily have been taken out of context. I'm sure the segment producers sifted thru dozens of interviews for the juiciest, most negative sound bytes to make the story more compelling than it was. As it seems like the majority of passengers made the best of their situation and did not complain. That doesn't make for a great scandal.

The conditions were not exactly pleasant, especially if you were in an inside stateroom, with no balcony or window. No lights, no electricity, no a/c or ventilation, bad food, warm beer, and a strong pervasive smell of human waste and rotting food everywhere you went. That sounds almost as foul as a date with a Nala...j/k

[Dattebayo]

Sounds like Greg just needs to not go on a cruise, ever. I have been on a few boats in my time, and I believe the passengers were compensated justly. Those trips are not cheap!

Hey, sure they were whining, I'm with Bubba on this one. Mostly because it's not like everyone on the ship is a wealthy person. Many MANY of the folks I meet on ships saved and scrimped for their own ticket at great loss to themselves. And the expectation is what is important here!

Just for comparison, I once flew on a tiny 50-passenger turbo-prop plane that had a landing I'd call neck-breaking at Reagan National Airport...
All the luggage doors popped open on impact and everything flew out of the compartments into people's heads, just so you get the idea. We all got a free flight and several drink coupons for the trouble. I felt like it was just, because it scared the crap out of me. I did complain, and so what if I did? It's not like not complaining ever gets you anything in America. People and corporations WILL walk all over you if you don't speak up, so speak your peace and encourage others to do the same.

[PoorManQ45]

It's not like not complaining ever gets you anything in America. People and corporations WILL walk all over you if you don't speak up, so speak your peace and encourage others to do the same.

I agree completely with Dave!

[Loki]

Meanwhile, in Haiti....

[OriginalWheelman]

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease." The problem is we're constantly bombarded by wheels that are only squeaking so they can get grease they don't need, but feel they deserve just because they hit a bump.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

It's not like not complaining ever gets you anything in America. People and corporations WILL walk all over you if you don't speak up, so speak your peace and encourage others to do the same.

THIS is the consumers obligation I was talking about.

[AZhitman]

Sounds like Greg just needs to not go on a cruise, ever.

Why the hell would you say that?

Why should I never go on a cruise? Please explain.

I can tell you this: If there was an on-board crisis, I sure as hell wouldn't be acting like a spoiled, entitled douche afterwards.

I believe the passengers were compensated justly.

Cripes. I never said they weren't. I think Carnival was VERY generous. I'm not knocking their response. Pay attention.

The customer isn't always right. In fact, the customer is almost always WRONG. However, it is sometimes in the company's best interest to let the customer feel as if they've won.

[AZhitman]

"The squeaky wheel gets the grease." The problem is we're constantly bombarded by wheels that are only squeaking so they can get grease they don't need, but feel they deserve just because they hit a bump.

I don't get "walked all over". Ever.

I know the difference between poor service and things that are OUT of anyone's control. Perhaps that comes with being an adult.

[Jesda]

I'm watching tonight's SNL. Funny Weekend Update skit with two passengers from the ship complaining about there not being enough flavors of ice cream. It'll probably be on Hulu tomorrow.

[Dattebayo]

Why should I never go on a cruise? Please explain.

Because it sounds like you don't know what they are or what they are for. Cruises are, by nature, an extravagant overindulgence.

I believe the passengers were compensated justly.

Cripes. I never said they weren't. I think Carnival was VERY generous. I'm not knocking their response. Pay attention.

The customer isn't always right. In fact, the customer is almost always WRONG. However, it is sometimes in the company's best interest to let the customer feel as if they've won.

Because a cruise is a luxury, I can't agree with you at all. The idea of luxury generally turns most of your ideas about the customer upside down. Maybe you think there's some kind of injustice in letting the people involved act like spoiled children, but it's not like they just hired a ferry to cross the river. Come on!

[HashiriyaS14]

I don't know the details of this.

Carnival should obviously refund every dime, but assuming they do that, I don't see any reason beyond that for the passengers to complain.

You paid for an experience, you don't get it, you get a refund. ~fin~

[AZhitman]

Because it sounds like you don't know what they are or what they are for. Cruises are, by nature, an extravagant overindulgence.

BFD.

Doesn't give anyone the right to act like a spoiled douche when something OUTSIDE THE CONTROL of the cruise personnel occurs.

If they contracted food poisoning because of unsanitary conditions in the ship's galley, then BY ALL MEANS, they have a legitimate complaint. Scream it at the top of their lungs, and rake Carnival over the coals for their failure.

That's not what happened here.

I'm surprised they weren't whining because they didn't get to see mermaids and magical water unicorns.

[skydragoness]

I don't know the details of this.

Carnival should obviously refund every dime, but assuming they do that, I don't see any reason beyond that for the passengers to complain.

You paid for an experience, you don't get it, you get a refund. ~fin~

I would be royally pissed if I didn't get a refund or something to that effect.

The idea of being on a ship that big with that many people is not my idea of a vacation though. I want to be AWAY from people when I'm relaxing, especially whiny-a** people.

[Watermelonwarrior]

theres like 3000 people on board. Even if it went perfect someone would be complaining!

In August I ordered something from an online clothing store. The ship date was more then 3 weeks later. The day before the aprox. ship date I got an email saying my bag was out of stock and I was refunded and also given a $20 store credit good on my next purchase. The bag I bought was only $16... I Have ordered from them many times since then. When a company goes over and beyond it really separates them from the rest of the company's.

Even at my work when something goes wrong with an order we correct it and throw in a free can. Even if its something that was damaged in shipping.

[Jesda]

The idea of being on a ship that big with that many people is not my idea of a vacation though. I want to be AWAY from people when I'm relaxing, especially whiny-a** people.

Seriously. Finding a lake and hiding out unabomber style is the way to go, minus the whole domestic terrorism thing.

[LocAL_anarchy]

Disabled Cruise Ship Survival Guide:

Step 1: Raid bar. Procure several bottles of liquor.

Step 2: Consume liquor.

Steps 3 through 8: Hazy blur of questionable acts with member(s) of opposite gender.

Step 9: Repeat as needed.