Westboro Church and Tires

[MinisterofDOOM]

The people who cheer on damaging of personal property (or worse) are no better than the Westboro "church" members.

Idealist, oversimplified drivel. The real world has never worked like that. Wrongdoers don't stop at a simple kindly request. They don't stop at all. Good people stand to lose at the hands of inhuman scum, and oversimplifying the situation down to that point doesn't solve the problem. This attitude is EXACTLY why the world is such a s*** today. No one ever wants to SOLVE problems, because the means to solving those problems isn't politically correct, isn't fun to think about, and isn't shiny and glossy and wrapped in a bow.

And anyway, freedom of speech doesn't enter into this. You want to protest something, feel free. There is a time and a place for everything, and CHOOSING to forcibly put YOUR desires above those of other people is unacceptable. Protesting at a funeral is the scummiest, dirtiest, most evil, offensive thing I can possibly imagine. These people have no respect for human life.

Idealism is dangerous. Be careful.

[IanS]

Props to whoever pulled that off and the repair shops that refused service

No doubt.

They are lucky it was their tires, and not their throats.

Im all for free speech, but there is a line.

Apparently it took 3 of my friends to stop me.

Must, not, make, fat, joke......

The people who cheer on damaging of personal property (or worse) are no better than the Westboro "church" members.

Idealist, oversimplified drivel. The real world has never worked like that. Wrongdoers don't stop at a simple kindly request. They don't stop at all. Good people stand to lose at the hands of inhuman scum, and oversimplifying the situation down to that point doesn't solve the problem. This attitude is EXACTLY why the world is such a s*** today. No one ever wants to SOLVE problems, because the means to solving those problems isn't politically correct, isn't fun to think about, and isn't shiny and glossy and wrapped in a bow.

And anyway, freedom of speech doesn't enter into this. You want to protest something, feel free. There is a time and a place for everything, and CHOOSING to forcibly put YOUR desires above those of other people is unacceptable. Protesting at a funeral is the scummiest, dirtiest, most evil, offensive thing I can possibly imagine. These people have no respect for human life.

Idealism is dangerous. Be careful.

MoD for president.

For serious.

[OriginalWheelman]

The people who cheer on damaging of personal property (or worse) are no better than the Westboro "church" members.

Idealist, oversimplified drivel. The real world has never worked like that. Wrongdoers don't stop at a simple kindly request. They don't stop at all. Good people stand to lose at the hands of inhuman scum, and oversimplifying the situation down to that point doesn't solve the problem. This attitude is EXACTLY why the world is such a s*** today. No one ever wants to SOLVE problems, because the means to solving those problems isn't politically correct, isn't fun to think about, and isn't shiny and glossy and wrapped in a bow.

And anyway, freedom of speech doesn't enter into this. You want to protest something, feel free. There is a time and a place for everything, and CHOOSING to forcibly put YOUR desires above those of other people is unacceptable. Protesting at a funeral is the scummiest, dirtiest, most evil, offensive thing I can possibly imagine. These people have no respect for human life.

Idealism is dangerous. Be careful.

/round of applause.

[themadscientist]

Flameproof suit on, codpiece situated, Walkman charged up and loaded with D.R.I., *click* Here we go

These people are the lowest sort of scum, true.

The crap they sling at families who have lost people in an arguably needless war is vile and disgusting, true.

They deserve nothing, but bad luck, rainy days, genital cancer and a bluray collection of the simple life with Paris Hilton special features in spooky nightvision.

That being said, they are operating within the law and within their first amendment rights. To vandalize their admittedly ugly vehicle crosses a line. Those that did this are criminals, and they lose the high ground when they break the law. I can laugh at it, but on another level realize it can't be allowed.

Freedom of speech is not there to protect popular speech, but rather unpopular speech. Those people that would harm these people because they disagree with them are using the same kind of reasoning that oppresses the homosexuals the Westboro people hate, but actually taking it further into illegal behavior. In that respect, from a legal and Constitutional standpoint, the Westboro nuts are in the right, the people who vandalized their cars in the wrong.

Freedom of speech means just that, the freedom to speak as you wish. There is no "freedom of action" or "freedom to disregard the law because you don't like someone or their words." The constitution means something or it doesn't. It's freedom or it isn't. People can chafe and denounce idealism, but you play fast and loose with your ideals at your peril.

I encourage people to work within their rights to hound these people. Don't break the law but stand right on the edge and yell as loud as possible. Follow them wherever they go, protest the hotels they stay at within local ordinances. Figure out which rooms they stay at and call all night and aim spotlights at their windows if you can legally do it. Sit around them at dennys and fart and talk in conversational tones to them about what s*** they are. Follow them to the bathroom and stand around them within legal space limitations while the pee and comment on their junk if it's legal. Etc. etc. etc. There are ways to apply pressure that do not undermine you, but it requires a level of sophistication that thus far the Westboro people have held the monopoly on. Up your game folks.

[IBCoupe]

Freedom of speech is not selectively apportioned no matter how vile the message.

If everyone who said something sh*tty or false had to GTFO of America, the only people left would be mutes and mimes.

Mimes are French. They'd be the first to go.

[themadscientist]

They are easy to catch too. They always get stuck in invisible boxes.

[IBCoupe]

But they lock me out! They're sneaky. You'll need an invisible bulldozer to break down their walls.

[themadscientist]

Just take a seat and watch the oxygen in the box run out. Choke frenchie!

[IBCoupe]

Stupid facepaint.

[themadscientist]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjkmh3Lg ... re=related[/youtube]

[OriginalWheelman]

Just take a seat and watch the oxygen in the box run out. Choke frenchie!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErMC5BGeO7M

[troskinatior]

I hope all of those people die the worst way possible. If they ever came around my area I would beat the s*** out of them or destroy the whole car. I am seriously suprized no one has done anything worse then slashing there tires. I think this is one of the very very few times that a mob would come in handy

[AZhitman]

But they lock me out! They're sneaky. You'll need an invisible bulldozer to break down their walls.

They also make lots of excuses as to why they can't do something... kinda like...Wait. Heeeey, look. ^

[AZhitman]

Freedom of speech means just that, the freedom to speak as you wish. There is no "freedom of action"

While the rest of your post, as much as it pains me, is right, 2 things here:

1) This ain't just speech. It's assembly, disruption, disturbing the peace, potentially trespassing and incitement. Too bad most attorneys don't have a creative gene.

2) As was said earlier, the Constitution protects them from the gov't, not natural consequences.

[troskinatior]

They dont break any laws when they protest and there not even close to the funeral from what I heard. Yeah there not doing anything wrong in the laws eyes and they cant do anything about it and I hope they dont restict peoples rights from these ***holes

[Jesda]

You're typically free to express yourself in public.
You're not free to react to that expression violently. But, I'd empathize with someone who did.

[themadscientist]

Freedom of speech means just that, the freedom to speak as you wish. There is no "freedom of action"

While the rest of your post, as much as it pains me, is right, 2 things here:

1) This ain't just speech. It's assembly, disruption, disturbing the peace, potentially trespassing and incitement. Too bad most attorneys don't have a creative gene.

2) As was said earlier, the Constitution protects them from the gov't, not natural consequences.

If they are violating statutes they should be prosecuted. If the local authorities are not exercising their duties they need to be taken to task.

The constitution protects you not just from the predations of oppressive government but also your fellow citizens. Having your vehicle damaged is not a "natural consequence," it's vandalism, it's property damage. Getting socked in the mouth is not a "natural consequence," it's assault. That the victims' actions induced and antagonized the assailant towards the act is indisputable, but the ultimate conscious decision to step outside the limits of the law to effect a response is understandable, but still criminal and thus unacceptable.

Don't like fur, you have some options to protest it.

Acceptable.


Unacceptable.


Are you a global warming fanatic? Protest.

Acceptable.


Unacceptable.


Tell Gareth that he deserved to have his property destroyed. All of you who advocated vandalizing the Westboro cruiser are no better than those that victimized this person.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01494.html

The minute you start to justify illegal behavior that victimizes others you start down a slippery slope and soon run the risk of being this guy.

[float_6969]

They're often "counter pro-tested" here. Maybe I shouldn't say often. I should say sometimes. I've participated on multiple occasions, and even went home and got my American flag and drove back and forth in front of where they were protesting with it sticking out of my sunroof in January until they left. Anytime there is a counter-protest, people always honk and yell and are generally very supportive. It also tends to make them move on to their next site more quickly.

Unfortunately, the human race has a bad tendency to be more easily motivated by hate than love, and where the counter-protester groups fizzle out, the hate-church keeps spreading it's hate and teaching it to it's children, which is what sickens me the most. These kids will spend their entire lives knowing hate as one of the primary driving forces in their lives. Their teachings are a disease of the mind, and it's not isolated to their family. It seems to actually be growing, which is what scares me the most.

[themadscientist]

Unfortunately, the human race has a bad tendency to be more easily motivated by hate than love.

That is a very true statement unfortunately and why politics becomes increasingly characterized with vitriol and violence. The moderates are being forcibly driven out or voluntarily leaving the process.

[float_6969]

And when we have a completely bi-polar congress, the s*** is gonna fall apart. I often wonder when the local milita's are gonna step up and "re-organize" the government. What sucks is that in principal, the system works. The problem is people. And greed.