Vtec Power??

[Altiman94]

I've seen honda swaps that the vtec wasnt working properly after the swap due to bad wiring. it is enitirely possible that it isn't working. It's almost like your turbo isnt boosting properly, but not quite. The motor is made to run better with the vtec working properly. wait until he has it running good and race him again adn then you will have no doubts about it anymore

[extheflow]

30 hp?!? I'd like to see the dyno chart. I'm not calling you a liar, but that's incredibly impressive for a system that acts like an aggressively ground set of cams.

I don't see how VTEC adds 30 hp if essentially all that it is is a really aggressive street-cam. An aggressive street cam for the KA (the stock ones are unbelievably mild) will add about 11 whp.

Does anyone know the specs of the camshafts (duration, lift, etc) of some of those honda engines before and after vtec is engaged?

I for one am not impressed at all by VTEC, and I HATE HATE HATE people who treat VTEC like it's a turbocharger--because it's NOTHING alike. (Actually, i was reading a rice-magazine at barnes and nobel the other day and they were saying how VTEC has reached "legendary" status among tuners for its "near-turbo top-end power." What a load of crap).

My mom has a V6 VTEC accord engine, and when vtec "kicks" in, the only thing I notice is the obnoxious sound--doesn't push you back in your seat at all, really unimpressive and uninspiring.

Anyway--yeah, you won legitimately. Too bad if his VTEC wasn't working, that's his fault.

i'm not making excuses for anyone..he will get smoked regardless on if his vtec is working or not.the specs on the cams i had that gained 30hp in vtec over the off vtec lobes wereInt-248 mid Exh-240 mid at .050"lift.(vtec)Int-206 mid Exh-206 mid at .050lift" (off vtec)it's a pretty dramatic difference.especially when the engine is designed to operate at higher RPMs with those specs.BTW i raced a hatch with a CTR swap tonight and destroyed it by quite a few cars.my swap is pretty much stock on 16psi.so you shouldn't worry.

[StrangeLove]

I had hondas for many reasons! They are ugly, I see about 4,000 civics every day and just as many accords, they are fwd, the people who drive them, and the list goes on and on...

(I don't hate the s2000)

Let us know how the race turns out

[SrS13]

i'm not making excuses for anyone..he will get smoked regardless on if his vtec is working or not.the specs on the cams i had that gained 30hp in vtec over the off vtec lobes wereInt-248 mid Exh-240 mid at .050"lift.(vtec)Int-206 mid Exh-206 mid at .050lift" (off vtec)it's a pretty dramatic difference.especially when the engine is designed to operate at higher RPMs with those specs.BTW i raced a hatch with a CTR swap tonight and destroyed it by quite a few cars.my swap is pretty much stock on 16psi.so you shouldn't worry.

16 psi really? on what turbo setup?

[InlineSix]

bsstock ITR's run HIGH 14s, you your saying in a ek body it takes off almost 2 seconds?

Yeah, Ill see if I can find it on honda-tech. My friend wants to do that swap so its about all I hear about.

[InlineSix]

He said 13.5 or quicker, I just called him.

[Bbill528]

Vtec won't kick in if the engine is cold....

[Turb0wned]

hes mad cause he lost... thats what alot of them say

[stueRPS13]

sounds like a pretty good excuse... but if his vtec wasent hitting you should walked him a lot harder... only one way to find out.. roll him agin.

[extheflow]

Vtec won't kick in if the engine is cold....

engine is warm enough for vtec after about 20 seconds of driving on a cold day.

[extheflow]

16 psi really? on what turbo setup?

S15 swap, big exhaust, FMIC.

[MarkEmark]

i'm not making excuses for anyone..he will get smoked regardless on if his vtec is working or not.the specs on the cams i had that gained 30hp in vtec over the off vtec lobes wereInt-248 mid Exh-240 mid at .050"lift.(vtec)Int-206 mid Exh-206 mid at .050lift" (off vtec)it's a pretty dramatic difference.especially when the engine is designed to operate at higher RPMs with those specs.BTW i raced a hatch with a CTR swap tonight and destroyed it by quite a few cars.my swap is pretty much stock on 16psi.so you shouldn't worry.

I thought the VTEC lobes would have had higher lift than the non-vtec...so all VTEC honda engines, when VTEC kicks in, just have more duration, not lift v. when VTEC is disengaged?

That is quite a bit of difference in duration though, and the idea behind VTEC is no doubt incredible. I just think it's funny that VTEC was designed to keep low end torque without sacrificing high-end horsepower, but when referring to an n/a 4 cylinder honda engine, (the sub 2 liter ones anyway) the word torque almost never comes up

[gyfer]

Agreed.It don't make sense if VTEC don't include higher lift.Depend on which engine, 1.6 SiR Civic can make a up to 30hp different, with or without VTEC, across the rpm range.

Say GSR 1.8 make 180hp ( Type-R is 190 if I am right )a Civic Hatch, which weight around 2200, is making 12.22:1 weight to hp ratio. You need 2800bls S14 that make 230hp to even out the power. Plus, the gearing, transmission, etc etc, I would say you need at least 260hp to take him down. Do you have 260hp ?

Do forget 180hp is from 'pretty'-stock engine number.With the power and weight, I don't see why hatchback couldn't make 13sec.

[Altiman94]

many, many a honda has run 13 sec 1/4 mile times with b series vtec swaps. They are awesome motors to start tuning from.

[Nameless EJ6]

engine is warm enough for vtec after about 20 seconds of driving on a cold day.

No, the engine needs to be at operating temperature. That takes much longer than 20 seconds.

You guys need to stop sitting on your computers calculating whether this guy should have won or not because of his cams or power to weight ratio. This is so retarded.

Go do the research for yourselves about VTEC. It's not a very advanced subject to comprehend. It's not only about LIFT, it's also duration. I see that some people seem to be comparing it to aggressive camshafts. Sure you can compare it, but don't forget that your gearing and weight ratio is also different. Honda's have short powerbands and short gearing, your 240's have more torque and shorter redlines. They are also fully tuned from the factory for VTEC. After swapping aggressive cams into your KA's or NA SR's, you've probably just shat all over your low end power yet made 11whp more on your top end. Please don't compare camshafts unless you take everything else into consideration.

If he was being truthfull about his VTEC not working properly, then he shouldn't have even raced you. With no VTEC engaging, it's not operating like it was designed. The air/fuel mapping will be totally off without it. He should also have a CEL if it's not in operating.

Alot of you guys think that regardless of whether his VTEC is operating or not, that he should have lost either way, you're wrong. Stock GSR swapped hatchbacks can come close to breaking 13's with everything operating properly and a good driver (and decent tires). It's night and day without VTEC. Please don't s*** on Hondas if you've never owned, built, or raced them... it's pointless to argue it over the net.

[Nameless EJ6]

bsstock ITR's run HIGH 14s, you your saying in a ek body it takes off almost 2 seconds?

Here, coming from someone who had a fully swapped 00 JDM ITR in his 99 EJ hatch, you can do the math (you are right btw):

I ran a 14.5 @ 99mph with a 2.4 60 foot. My car weighed 2380 with full interior. I lost traction in every gear except 5th. My transmission also utilized the 4.785 final drive which is mostly the cause of that.

It will definetely break 13's on better tires than I had, but will NEVER break off 12 seconds without more modifications or weight loss. I had I/E and a tuned OBD1 chipped ECU. Everything operating perfectly.

2 seconds is alot to ask from a swap, it won't happen.

However, in the 92-95 hatch, breaking 12's has been done with the same setup I ran and fully gutted interior excluding dash.

[extheflow]

No, the engine needs to be at operating temperature. That takes much longer than 20 seconds.

You guys need to stop sitting on your computers calculating whether this guy should have won or not because of his cams or power to weight ratio. This is so retarded.

Go do the research for yourselves about VTEC. It's not a very advanced subject to comprehend. It's not only about LIFT, it's also duration. I see that some people seem to be comparing it to aggressive camshafts. Sure you can compare it, but don't forget that your gearing and weight ratio is also different. Honda's have short powerbands and short gearing, your 240's have more torque and shorter redlines. They are also fully tuned from the factory for VTEC. After swapping aggressive cams into your KA's or NA SR's, you've probably just shat all over your low end power yet made 11whp more on your top end. Please don't compare camshafts unless you take everything else into consideration.

If he was being truthfull about his VTEC not working properly, then he shouldn't have even raced you. With no VTEC engaging, it's not operating like it was designed. The air/fuel mapping will be totally off without it. He should also have a CEL if it's not in operating.

Alot of you guys think that regardless of whether his VTEC is operating or not, that he should have lost either way, you're wrong. Stock GSR swapped hatchbacks can come close to breaking 13's with everything operating properly and a good driver (and decent tires). It's night and day without VTEC. Please don't s*** on Hondas if you've never owned, built, or raced them... it's pointless to argue it over the net.

i did own one...for over a year. it was my daily driver/beater. and the engine does not have to be up to operating temps for VTEC to engage. it takes about 20seconds. i don't know what the exact parameter is but from my personal experience with the car i owned .as long as it was warm enough to idle at the normal RPM then it was warm enough for vtec.

[swappedcrx]

As a sr20det'ed s13 owner living in a house of turbo charges and all motor imports i can say this and i have dyno charts and timeslips to back-up everyword. My roommate has a 88 civic hatch with an all OEM ls/vtec set-up that runs 13.53 @103.5 on 205-50-15 Azenias and 12.8@101 on 23" MandH slicks. Oem rods pistons,cams intake manifold open header and runnin a pig rich "mugen" chip. On the highway we are a neck and neck race to 115mph(damn limiter) the car weighs in at about 2100 lbs and makes 172.2 hp to the wheels as measures at Car-Tech in Ft. Lauderdale. Point of the story is that its perfectly possible with tuning and bolt-ons that you could get a heck-of a race from a swapped EF or EG as these motors are proven to make 190-210 from a GS-R or a relatively mild LS or CR-Vtec. My car isn't the fastest stock T25 in the world in a matter of fact i can't figure where my top end is at but at my last dyno i put down 225 hp 225 ft/lbs of torque before a couple more upgrades.13.4 & 103 mph for me. If his vtec didn't work who cares he lost. He shoulda stayed home that night but dont try to write off a civic cause now you got a front-mount. Last night a "stock" GSRed EG hatch walked me on a 50 or so shot of nitrous from a 2nd gear roll. Shot out a car and a half and i couldnt pull him in.

[PROJECTRB240SX]

GSR ENGINE IN A HATCH IS GOOD FOR ABOUT LOW 14'SI USED TO BUILD HATCHES IN HAWAII. WE TRIED EVERYTHING AND THE CHEAPEST/FASTEST SETUP WE BUILT WAS THE B20 VTEC HYBRID. IT COST US ABOUT 1200 TO BUILD WITH I/H/E WE WERE UP TO $1850. OUR SETUPS WERE PUTTING 215HP AT THE WHEELS AND PUSHING HATCHES IN THE LOW 13'S.... STRIPPED HATCHES WERE RUNNING LOW 11'S OR EVEN 10'S. THE HATCH THAT RAN A 10 WEIGHED JUST OVER 2000LBS AND THE DRIVER WEIGHED 165LBS.

[soon2besr20]

thats an excuse if i have ever heard one. Vtec kicks in automatically at i believe either 5800 or 6200 rpm. The gsr has vtec on intake and exhaust side and is gunna be pretty wquick once swapped into the body. The only thing a vtec controller can do is start you into vtec at a lower or higher rpm, so basically you handed it to him and he couldnt take it. Good job:ylsuper !

[Nameless EJ6]

GSR ENGINE IN A HATCH IS GOOD FOR ABOUT LOW 14'SI USED TO BUILD HATCHES IN HAWAII. WE TRIED EVERYTHING AND THE CHEAPEST/FASTEST SETUP WE BUILT WAS THE B20 VTEC HYBRID. IT COST US ABOUT 1200 TO BUILD WITH I/H/E WE WERE UP TO $1850. OUR SETUPS WERE PUTTING 215HP AT THE WHEELS AND PUSHING HATCHES IN THE LOW 13'S.... STRIPPED HATCHES WERE RUNNING LOW 11'S OR EVEN 10'S. THE HATCH THAT RAN A 10 WEIGHED JUST OVER 2000LBS AND THE DRIVER WEIGHED 165LBS.

Low 11's or 10's? With 215 whp? That not possible even in a 2000 pound gutted hatch.

[BoostFab]

Just a quick question:

How much of a difference will Honda engine with Vtec be without Vtec. I ask because I raced a Honda Hatchback I believe it was like a 1998 model with a GSR engine. I beat him with my 1990 240 with sr20 T25 turbo bossting 13-14 psi.

I beat him by 3rd gear and was a good lenght ahead Id say maybe 3-4 cars lenght.

with little traction because Im on 15s stock suspension and regular street tires.

He said his Vtec wasnt kicking in. How much of a difference will it be with Vtec kicking in??

first of all, VTEC isn't nitrous--you will not feel "WOW" kick; all VTEC does is engaging a higher lift on the cams ~5.5K RPM.

come'on man, you can't be expecting a NA motor keeping up to a boosted motor, especially you're pushing at 13-14lb/psi.

have that gsr motor boosted 13-14lb/psi and we'll see a different story.

[PROJECTRB240SX]

http://www.turbofast.com.au/Drag.html

HERE TYPE IN THE STATS AND THIS CALCULATOR IS ULTRA CONSERVATIVE. YES IT DID RUN A 10.99 AND I WISH I STILL HAD THE TIMESLIP..... THIS WAS BACK IN 2000.

[PROJECTRB240SX]

I'M SORRY I FORGOT TO SAY WITH I/H/E IT WAS AROUND 230HP AT THE WHEELS. THE B20 VTEC WAS 215 BY ITSELF..... I'M NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE YOU OF ANYTHING BUT ITS BEEN DONE AND THEY DO IT CONTINUOSLY. HELL THERE USED TO BE A HAWAIIAN WEBSITE DEVOTED TO THE B20 VTEC CARS THAT WERE BUILT.

[SrS13]

thats an excuse if i have ever heard one. Vtec kicks in automatically at i believe either 5800 or 6200 rpm. The gsr has vtec on intake and exhaust side and is gunna be pretty wquick once swapped into the body. The only thing a vtec controller can do is start you into vtec at a lower or higher rpm, so basically you handed it to him and he couldnt take it. Good job:ylsuper !

yeah he said his vtec controller was not reading rpms and if it not reading rpms then Vtec wont know when to engage correct?

[PROJECTRB240SX]

WRONG THE VTEC HITS AT THE PREDETERMIND MOMENT THE ECU TELLS IT TOO..... THE VTEC CONTROLLER ALTERS THE SIGNAL TO SPEED UP ENGAGEMENT OF VTEC, IF THE AVC IS SETUP WRONG IT COULD STOP THE COMPUTER FROM ENGAGING THE VTEC PROPERLY. MY FRIENDS SI HAD TWO WIRES BACKWARDS AND VTEC WASN'T ENGAGING BECAUSE THE ECU LEAD WAS BEING GROUNDED OUT.

[InlineSix]

when you say B20 vtec. do you mean B20 block with a b16 vtec head?

[PROJECTRB240SX]

NOPE ITS A B20 BLOCK WITH A B18C1 HEAD... ITS THE CRV BLOCK WITH A GSR HEAD.

[InlineSix]

yeah, you can do b16 or b18 head, wasnt sure on your set up. from your experences, what would you recomend. the b20 block setup or the itr engine in a ek hatch. both engines would go into an ek hatch btw

[PROJECTRB240SX]

I know they do.... I would do the b20 as it usually cost less and has about 40 more chp. The itr engine puts down 175ish at the wheels while the b20 vtec hybrids I have built put down 215whp so roughly 240ish chp. Its and easy build and can run off the itr ecu.