To All My Vegetarian Friends...

[skydragoness]

This is very true. I tried on two separate occasions to go "veggie" and my body did not respond well at all. In fact, after about two months of trying (both times) I found myself losing a ton of strength and starting to become anemic. And I knew what nutrients and amino acids were necessary to make up for the loss of meat, and followed the plan...but in the end, it just didn't work for my body, for whatever genetic reason. I have to eat at least a small quantity of meat every so often, I can't live on veggies and vitamins alone.

That being said, ostrich burger and buffalo burger are good, too...

exactly, i should've said that in my original post, that there are nutrients that cannot be found in veggies, and there are nutrients that cannot be found in meat that are in veggies.

as for me, i'm all for moderation. i eat red meat every once in the while, or rather, i try to have some of everything often. of course, during the semester i don't have time to eat.

I do believe that it is bad for your body when you consume certain foods almost exclusively.

oh, and you are most welcome Anand

[Doogz]

I think i tend to generalize vegetarians like that to avoid the possibility of my ever liking one again If i'm talking to some girl and i found out she's a vegetarian then i can be outspoken and say **** that! That way she'll leave before i get to know her well enough to ever be stuck in that situation. Might sound kind of harsh but its how i deal with the problem.

As far as the health side, i just don't see how you could be as healthy because you lose out on so much protein and amino acids. I mean i know there are other ways to go about getting them but still it just doesn't seem balanced.

[SmithSR]

I hereby apologize for quoting from the Bible. Although, it is fair to do so, as scripture *could* be the basis of one's point of view.

[Rockenreno]

I disagree with you Doogz, personally I think it is pretty pointless (no offense, just an opinion) for people to not eat meat to "save the animals". I mean honestly, what's the big deal about saving a cow that was raised to be food?

I have nothing against vegetarians who do it for religious reasons or because they just don't like meat, it's their choice. I'm sure there are other valid reasons as well, but the animal one kind of gets me because you kill animals every day through the products you use, etc. It just seems hypocritical and ultimately pointless. I'm all for fair treatment of animals, just some of them belong in my belly

Oh, another problem with vegetarians is you can't order pepperoni pizza, only cheese or something. Pizza just isn't the same... I'm going to go munch on my log of ground beef I bought You vegetarians enjoy your salads and other non-meat products, I'm just sorry your missing out on the beauty of beef and other heart-clogging products!

[hannibal]

Let me first say to SRSmith that I've read that book called the Bible. So what I say is firsthand knowledge, not something that I heard between naps in church. But religion doesn't belong in this thread...The most important part of any diet is being sure that you getting everything your body needs. A proper diet can be strictly herbivorous (vegetarian) or omnivorous. It's simply a matter of choice. Its not healthy to eat carrots and carrots only, nor is it healthy to eat hamburgers and nothing else. So like sky said, its about a balanced diet.Meantime, I would recommend trying a more gradual change of diet if you wanted to become avegetarian. YOur body is used to meat and sudden changes can have negative effects.And let me end by saying there is NOTHING in meat that your body NEEDS. Protein can be found in the plant kingdom too.

[Doogz]

And let me end by saying there is NOTHING in meat that your body NEEDS. Protein can be found in the plant kingdom too.

It can be found in the plant kingdom but in smaller amounts. I am biased because i am a bit of a protein freak i guess, but ounce for ounce nothing beats tuna for protein content and i believe beef comes in second. And for that reason alone i have managed to force myself to eat tuna everyday for the last 5 or 6 months right out of the can, the way it was meant to be! I don't do it because i love tuna, in fact my mercury levels are probably through the roof and im really sick of the taste, but i need all the protein i can get.

[Meantime]

Meantime, I would recommend trying a more gradual change of diet if you wanted to become avegetarian. YOur body is used to meat and sudden changes can have negative effects.And let me end by saying there is NOTHING in meat that your body NEEDS. Protein can be found in the plant kingdom too.

My changeover was pretty gradual and I have never been a substantial carnivore to begin with. The issue wasn't just simple protein - that's the easy thing to get (tofu, beans & nuts supply all the protein you need). There are many complex chemical building blocks in meat that are not easy to find outside of meat. Some people can get by fine without those acids and carbon compounds; I cannot. My chemistry isn't the same as yours.

When I was going veggie, I noticed a HUGE effect in physical activity. Even after mild workouts, my muscles would be sore for at least an entire week, when before it only took 2-3 days to heal after heavy workouts. And, the weakness I felt is hard to describe, it felt like I barely had any strength at all. Joints felt loose and worn, muscles ached, loss of stamina, you name it. If veggie works for you, more power and you're lucky...it just doesn't for some people, I guess.

[SmithSR]

Let me first say to SRSmith that I've read that book called the Bible. So what I say is firsthand knowledge, not something that I heard between naps in church. But religion doesn't belong in this thread...

It's a basis for a point of view. Very similar to the people who are offended by the killing of animals for us to eat. Some people base their choice not to eat animal flesh on the fact that animals are raised, fed, and slaughtered for human consumption. This is upsetting to some, therefore they do not consume animal flesh. This is a basis for a point of view or an opinion. Don't tell people what they can and can't base their opinions on.

[skydragoness]

LOL, Doogz, you a mercury man!

IwannaS15, you can find protein and such vitamins in veggies, but in such small amounts that you would have take supplements.

b12, is meat-exclusive, it can be found nowhere else other than a bottle of caplets.b12 is very important, and it cannot be stored in your body, so you'd have to pop b12 vitamins everyday!

"--helps make red blood cells and keeps the nervous system healthy---helps release energy from the food we eat--is needed to process folic acid"(http://www.foodstandards.gov.u..._b12/)

also, folic acid, which is found in lots of veggies needs b12 to process it.

i believe going vegetarian is fine, for almost every other nutrient that the body needs can be found with veggie substitutes, plus b12 can be found in cheese, dairy products, eggs, so a vegetarian doesn't necessarily have to eat flesh itself to obtain it

....but i think going strict vegan is detrimental to one's health.

[hannibal]

Doogz, we are all different. I burn more calories blinking then some people running a marathon. So I need carbs to keep me going. And yeah I eat some meat too (No pork though! SRSmith-see Lev. 11:7 since youre doubting my credibility)Your right about there (obviously) being more protein in meat. But according to the FDA's food pyramid, you only need 4-6 servings of meat or diary a day compared to 5-9 servings of fruits and vegies.And please dont think Im dissing someone because of their diet. Im just stating my opinion...

[kystate]

Look what we had for lunch!

Bugs Bunny!

[skydragoness]

FDA's food pyramid is a pile of crap, IMO.according to it, we are supposed to have 7-11 servings of grain/wheat products/starch!!unless you are a highly active person, no one needs that much carb!

[Repo Man]

ounce for ounce nothing beats tuna for protein content and i believe beef comes in second.

Actually, the egg is the perfect protein, but tuna is very good as well.

As far as this thread goes, HOLY CRAP! I did not intend to get you guys that riled up. One would almost think I started a thread about the "A" word. I was simply trying to convey my appreciation for leaving the good stuff to omnivores like me. You kids keep it civil! I don't want to have to shut down my own thread!

Oh yeah, ice cold beer washes antelope burger down very well...hehe...

[skydragoness]

no prob, repo, i think things are going quite smoothly

[SmithSR]

WannaS15:which is it? first you say religion doesn't belong here, now you post a passage from the Old Testament.

I tell you to read Luke 24:41.better yet, read the whole chapter so you don't say i took it out of context.

[Doogz]

I'm not really sure if i want to be a "mercury man"

And im not trying to belittle anyones eating choices. In fact the majority of the foods i do eat are grains and such. I start out with a bowl offruity pebbles and skim milk for breakfast. Lunch is either a ton of a rice of the majority of a dozen eggs or several hamburgers. Dinner #1 is tuna, green beans, corn, potatos, pears and pasta if im lucky enough and Dinner #2 is usually oatmeal and fruity pebbles or about 3 bowls of Fruity pebbles by themselves. Now if that doesn't soudn like the diet of a champion, then what does!! On the occasion i do get a large supply of meat in front of me then i'd swear i could be the eating champion of the world and no fawkers i am not fat!!! I just train my arse off and i needs me food

[Meantime]

Funny, I still have that little container of unfinished b12 somewhere in my cupboard...along with a bunch of other supplements I no longer use (glucosamine, maganese, etc.) I could probably make a nice PillMan out of all these little tablets.

[Doogz]

You used to take glucosamine? Could you tell that it was working because my friend takes it and swears by it but i have always been a bit skeptical.

[hannibal]

Sky, I am by no means a nutrional expert (I hate cooking!!), but the first line of the link you listed saysVitamin B12 is found in virtually all meat products and certain algae such as seaweed. Ive never eaten seaweed (or algae for that matter) but it does exist outside the aniaml knigdom.And Meantime, if you lift a lot, youre gonna need more protein since amino acids (which make up proteins) are need to build muscle. Just curious, what motivated you to try the vegie diet??And my friend SR, please tell me you understand that "meat" is refering to food in general?!? You quoted the last scripture, now can we agree this isnt a religious issue??

[Anand]

LOL, Doogz, you a mercury man!

IwannaS15, you can find protein and such vitamins in veggies, but in such small amounts that you would have take supplements.

b12, is meat-exclusive, it can be found nowhere else other than a bottle of caplets.b12 is very important, and it cannot be stored in your body, so you'd have to pop b12 vitamins everyday!

"--helps make red blood cells and keeps the nervous system healthy---helps release energy from the food we eat--is needed to process folic acid"(http://www.foodstandards.gov.u..._b12/)

also, folic acid, which is found in lots of veggies needs b12 to process it.

i believe going vegetarian is fine, for almost every other nutrient that the body needs can be found with veggie substitutes, plus b12 can be found in cheese, dairy products, eggs, so a vegetarian doesn't necessarily have to eat flesh itself to obtain it

....but i think going strict vegan is detrimental to one's health.

see.. I don't really agree with all that because again... it is all matter of oppinion...

You can find the support for what you belive in anywhere. If i say a pint of olive oil a day is good for your body... I'm positive I can either find something that can corroborate my statement or start a research that will prove that it is true... medical research for the most point is not all conclusive to anything. Yes, I do take that in cosideration but not as a conclusion.

As far as health goes... I have NEVER... not even once in my life have ever taken a bite of any kind of meat... that may be pork, chicken, beef, or even Fish....

and I am healthier than anything... I have not gotten sick for about the last 15 years... the most I will get iis a 24 hour flu or something but even that like once a year... I have no allergies no nothing... I don't even take any vitamin pills... so form my 24 years of experince, I can damn well say that you do not *Need* any meat or vitamin pills to be healthy or to live...

[Anand]

My changeover was pretty gradual and I have never been a substantial carnivore to begin with. The issue wasn't just simple protein - that's the easy thing to get (tofu, beans & nuts supply all the protein you need). There are many complex chemical building blocks in meat that are not easy to find outside of meat. Some people can get by fine without those acids and carbon compounds; I cannot. My chemistry isn't the same as yours.

When I was going veggie, I noticed a HUGE effect in physical activity. Even after mild workouts, my muscles would be sore for at least an entire week, when before it only took 2-3 days to heal after heavy workouts. And, the weakness I felt is hard to describe, it felt like I barely had any strength at all. Joints felt loose and worn, muscles ached, loss of stamina, you name it. If veggie works for you, more power and you're lucky...it just doesn't for some people, I guess.

I can totally understand where you are coming from... Again.. there are 2 sides to the coin... I know 2 people who are Vegitarians and tried to start eating meet and could not handle it... their body did not digest it. they were all jacked up from consumptin of the meat... and they didn't even take a large portion of it.. just a little..

conclusion...

If you condition your body to a certian diet for a long period of time... your body gets used to it.. and then when you try to change it all of a sudden... your body can not handle it! get it? so that goes both ways... we can throw that argument out the window...

[Anand]

If God didn't want us to eat meat, you'd have molars in the FRONT of your mouth. Think about it.

Those sharp ones in the front? For ripping and tearing of flesh.

Thankx Hitman to segway into my next point...



now did you ever look at the anatomy of different animals and humans? When you compare the anatomy of herbivor animals and our, you will see many many similarities... but not with carnivor animals...

Did you ever notice the way carnivors eat their meat? the way their jaws work?? let's take a lion for example...Their jaws move up and down...only... not side to side... that is to rip the flesh...

Did you ever notice the jaws of herbivor animals.. lets take a cow for example...their jaws work from side to side so they can chew on plants and such easily.. not up and down...

Ever notice how our jaws work?? Try to see how we eat next time you take a bite into something..It moves from side to side not up and down...

Why you ask? because of genetics and they way we were made!

I'm not saying that what I just worte is a conclusive fact that we were made not to eat meat... but just something that supports my belife that we do not need meat to survive...

[Meantime]

You used to take glucosamine? Could you tell that it was working because my friend takes it and swears by it but i have always been a bit skeptical.

It does work, yes. I started taking it because of premature arthritis in my hips (14 years of long distance running). It really helped with the chronic pain and stiffness. It's a good thing to take if you have joint pain, since it supplies the base matter of the material in your joints. So far, my hips seem to be okay, so I only take it every once in a while now (it's pretty expensive stuff).

S15...my original decision to go veggie was based on 1) physical problems digesting any meat other than "birdmeat" and 2) philosophical/moral reasons. I eventually came to the same conclusion as you, just not enough amino acid intake for the level of activity. Plus, the diet was a major pain in the a$$ so I decided just to eat bird every once in a while and get over the whole killing animals thing.

There are no moral absolutes in a complex world, I figure.

[Doogz]

Yea, i used to run and lift and was in the process of training for a marathon and the lifting combined with the 40 miles a week wreaked havoc on my knees and so i had to give running up. I looked into glucosamine but never gave it a try. If it would allow me to run again i might just pick some up...worth a try i guess.

[Meantime]

Try it and give it a few weeks. I felt the difference almost immediately. I would have given up running if I hadn't discovered it.

boy, was that a plug or what?

[Doogz]

Yea!! Why am i listening to you. You're a damned glucosamine peddler!

[Rockenreno]

Ever notice how our jaws work?? Try to see how we eat next time you take a bite into something..It moves from side to side not up and down...

Uh, I dunno what's wrong with you but I have always chewed up and down, works great for ripping into meaty goodness:D My mouth moves side to side a little, I guess you could say my chewing motion is pretty circular. It DEFINATELY moves up and down mostly when I chew. Maybe because you've never had meat your body reacts differently, but I bet that most people chew up and down, not side to side.

Seriously though, no meat... ever? I feel sorry you haven't experienced it, but if you ate some now your body would most likely reject it...

[Anand]

Seriously though, no meat... ever? I feel sorry you haven't experienced it, but if you ate some now your body would most likely reject it...

*sorry* that is a matter of oppinion...

[Meantime]

Dude, if your grille only moves side-to-side while you're chewing, that's pretty crazy. If I even try to move mine a bit to the side, I hear a nasty *pop* from my inner ear! OW!

[Anand]

What I meant by the jaw thing was that our jaws can move from side to side not *just* up and down...it is not restricted.. yea when we eat our jaws move in a circular motion... which is what i meant by saying side to side....=) try eating your meat by just comping up and down and not moving it in a circular motion... just try it once.. and see if you can just go straight up and down...