This burns my soul

[gatorglaze]

What was really stupid was that the police man was starting to pull over to the side but he never fully crossed the line. Just enough so my friend could pull around him, and the second he did, lights and sirens. I thought that maybe his taillights were busted or something but nope, got a ticket for passing a police officer.

[Shift_Altima]

Wow. That's pretty shady. I'd have to walk over and have a little chat with the officer and get his badge number. It's not against the law to have a little chat with him.

I was hangin out I think studying or reading or soemthing at starbucks.. idc enough to get up and go find out the deal. Besides.. what could I do by reporting him? It's my word against his

[leeroy300]

I like this place but some of you people are acting ridiculous. Why, when criminals push the envelope, are they called "cunning" or clever, but when the cops do it, it's unfair? Give me a break. If you weren't street racing or breaking other laws in the first place, you wouldn't have to worry.

And to the brain-giant who's complaining about the cops busting red lights. Seriously. Put some honest, critical thought into it. Why would they be in a hurry? Are you going to argue that they're just trying to get to lunch quicker? Get over yourself. They are on the clock, getting paid no matter when they get somewhere. Most police departments have EXTREMELY stringent policies as to when their officers can activate their lights/sirens. If the police officer fails to stay within these guidelines and wrecks, that officer is probably out of a job. He's also probably going to be civilly liable for any damages. Do you really think most cops are willing to bust a red light just to get to the donut shop quicker?

Like I said, there are only certain circumstances that enable an officer to run emergent, unlike most fire departments, who will do 100mph to a call of a dog locked in a car. Most PDs require a substantial risk to life or safety being involved before an officer can turn his lights on. Cops, however, will "fudge" on the policy in order to get to certain calls quicker. Oh, your house has been broken into and you don't know if anyone's still inside? Sorry, that doesn't qualify for full-out emergency response, but I'll bet you want the cops there ASAP. But you're right...I better not use my lights to get through the 15 red lights between my location and your house. What? Thos kids are spray-painting your white picket fence again? Sorry...that gets routine response, per policy. I may, however, exceed the speed limit a little in the interest of catching the little bastards, but you can be damn sure I'm not turning my lights on because that is deep ca-ca if I do. So is speeding, but I do it anyway so the caller doesn't b**ch that I took too long. Let's not even consider the fact that there are some calls that I may be allowed to run hot to, but I WON'T in the interests of actually catching a suspect. Do I really want to blaze into a burglary in progress with all my lights and sirens going? Why would I do that unless I wanted to alert the suspects that I'm coming for them?

Ugh, I'm done with this thread. I still like this forum, but some of you should either think before you speak, or just eliminate typing a response altogether.

To those of you that would presume to tell me how to do my job, how's this for a deal...the next time you call 911, make sure to tell the dispatcher to have us obey all traffic laws while we are enroute to handle your burglary call. I'll be more than happy to oblige so I don't have to risk my life for some ungrateful complainer.

But if you still want to tell me how do to police work, maybe we can work out a time for me to come to your place of work so I can tell you how to make my fries taste better.

And how many Police officers abuse thier power .............. I got a ticket for running a Yellow/Red light .......... went to dispute it judge sided with the cop saying he had reason to believe that an officer of 8yrs would not make a mistake ......... oh yeah in court the ticket somehow was stated as disobeying a traffic signal device ............ anyway my point is I see this as entrapment and another form of abuse of power JUST MY $.02 go after the real criminals DRUNKS !!!!! Or maybe the rotten thieves that drive up insurance costs Oh yeah one other point how can a car be aproved for highway use and not be governed for top speed ......... if you allow a car for sale that is street legal and can do 0-60 in 5 secs. then why are ppl not allowed to drive it to its fullest potential on the street ?
Modified by leeroy300 at 6:28 AM 3/9/2008

[shift_mikey]

I like this place but some of you people are acting ridiculous. Why, when criminals push the envelope, are they called "cunning" or clever, but when the cops do it, it's unfair? Give me a break. If you weren't street racing or breaking other laws in the first place, you wouldn't have to worry.

And to the brain-giant who's complaining about the cops busting red lights. Seriously. Put some honest, critical thought into it. Why would they be in a hurry? Are you going to argue that they're just trying to get to lunch quicker? Get over yourself. They are on the clock, getting paid no matter when they get somewhere. Most police departments have EXTREMELY stringent policies as to when their officers can activate their lights/sirens. If the police officer fails to stay within these guidelines and wrecks, that officer is probably out of a job. He's also probably going to be civilly liable for any damages. Do you really think most cops are willing to bust a red light just to get to the donut shop quicker?

Like I said, there are only certain circumstances that enable an officer to run emergent, unlike most fire departments, who will do 100mph to a call of a dog locked in a car. Most PDs require a substantial risk to life or safety being involved before an officer can turn his lights on. Cops, however, will "fudge" on the policy in order to get to certain calls quicker. Oh, your house has been broken into and you don't know if anyone's still inside? Sorry, that doesn't qualify for full-out emergency response, but I'll bet you want the cops there ASAP. But you're right...I better not use my lights to get through the 15 red lights between my location and your house. What? Thos kids are spray-painting your white picket fence again? Sorry...that gets routine response, per policy. I may, however, exceed the speed limit a little in the interest of catching the little bastards, but you can be damn sure I'm not turning my lights on because that is deep ca-ca if I do. So is speeding, but I do it anyway so the caller doesn't b**ch that I took too long. Let's not even consider the fact that there are some calls that I may be allowed to run hot to, but I WON'T in the interests of actually catching a suspect. Do I really want to blaze into a burglary in progress with all my lights and sirens going? Why would I do that unless I wanted to alert the suspects that I'm coming for them?

Ugh, I'm done with this thread. I still like this forum, but some of you should either think before you speak, or just eliminate typing a response altogether.

To those of you that would presume to tell me how to do my job, how's this for a deal...the next time you call 911, make sure to tell the dispatcher to have us obey all traffic laws while we are enroute to handle your burglary call. I'll be more than happy to oblige so I don't have to risk my life for some ungrateful complainer.

But if you still want to tell me how do to police work, maybe we can work out a time for me to come to your place of work so I can tell you how to make my fries taste better.

Whats the matter, Father a cop? That is the most close minded statement i've ever heard. Don't believe in good-cop-bad-cop? How about the blue shield (cops lying to defend other cops)?I DARE you to come spend some time out on the island in NY. These suffolk county cops here are some of the highest paid county cops in the nation. Believe me when i say it gets to their head.

NY has a hands free cell phone law. I watch people turn without signals, talking on the phone, swerving across 2 lanes, but they pull over the honda civic behind him that is obeying all the laws, just because it has dark tinted windows, rims, and aftermarket bumpers. TRUST ME, i was the honda civic. I've NEVER been pulled over in my Jeep or my Altima. I used to get pulled over twice a month in the summer when i owned my civic.

[cuzzbubba420]

[121traffic]

I know I said I was done, but by all means, I'm happy to address the things being said here.

Do you live in a perfect world or something. Cops 100% abuse their power especially near where i live. I saw a cop in an unmarked car tailgate the guy infront of him to speed up then pull his *** over. He provoked him and pulled him over. Don't say that they have strict laws. Numerous times i've seen cops bust on the lights and run a red then shut them off and keep cruisin for no reason. Better yet.. I was sitting in a starbucks and saw a cop turn on his lights fly thru a red light slam on his brakes and turn into dunkin donuts across the street. A few minutes later.. a second cop followed. Don't even say that cops don't abuse their power. I'm not saying that every cop does it or that all cops are bungholes. On the contrary, I have a ton of respect for most cops. But there are a handful who are complete jerks and for u to say that they don't abuse power and that what ppl are saying in this thread are ridiculous is a plain joke. Its a system based on trust.. and some cops can't be trusted but in the end its a person's word against a cop's word and who do you think is gonna win in court? The answer is pretty obvious. Here in NJ the cops are some of the worst.. they are liars and jerks and for you to sit there and bash ppl for thinking so.. well thats plain stupid. You sound like a very honest cop who abides by the law.. doesn't mean everyone else does.

As for your example, did you follow them into the shop? Maybe they got an alarm. Maybe someone inside just got their wallet stolen. Maybe someone got assaulted. I don't know. My point is that until I do, I won't pass judgment. There are so many possibilities that it's a waste of time to list them all. But since it was a donut shot, you just assume that they were there to fatten up. Right on.

So you want to pigeon-hole every cop in your area beacuse of the actions of a few that you've seen? Then you want to fault me for trying to defend cops, bolstering your argument with "I respect most cops though."? Really? That's a laughable point of view, at best. Let's remember who started with the blanket statements here. Here's a hint: It wasn't me or any other cop. It was the posters who commented "Cops are the worst" or "**** the fuzz." If you want to attack generalization, why don't you go after those guys? Seriously, you're putting yourself out there as a lone champion against generalization. What you're really telling me is that you would rather not have me do to people in this thread what people do to cops every day, and that is lump people together for no reason. So before you shout from your soapbox, why don't you examine your real motive? Your agenda here isn't to campaign against labeling. You'd like for me to think that, and you disguise your motives with statements like "I respect most cops." Oh really? Then why not stand up for the ones you respect when people spout rubbish here about how all cops are corrupt? I'd suspect you don't do that because A.) You don't really feel that way, or B.) It's not the popular viewpoint.

Of course I'm not saying that there aren't dirty cops out there. Of course there are, just like there are doctors that scam their patients, businessmen that embezzle from their companies, and stockbrokers that steal from their shareholders. All those jobs are based on trust, too, and yet those people don't get the microscopic examination that policework does. Police corruption is magnified because the media likes to splash those headlines across the front page. It's a very public job. If someone commits a crime, and it's found that they were hired as a police officer in 1986, and were only employed for 4 months, you can bet the headline would be "Former Cop Goes on Crime Spree!"

That's okay, though. I can live with that. I know that I'm honest, and I know I signed on for the scrutiny. It chaps my as*, though, to come in here and see ungrateful people stereotype ALL cops as bad, simply for the actions of one or two that did something that they perceived as wrong. Can I explain the actions in your example? Not off hand. You can be damn sure, however, that I would listen to what they have to say for themselves before I passed judgment were I in a position to do so. But that's too much for you, huh? Guilty before proven innocent, tried and convicted in the court of NICOforums, right? Please.

way to speak for the entire police population 121. Don't act like there aren't any officers who do these things, because that's just being closed minded when we all see it happen from time to time. And, about your fire dept. claims of rushing to a scene for a dog locked in a car? The fire dept. is actually held accountable for their repsonse times and these times are documented on every call for reasons that because of your comment i'm sure you wouldn't understand. some cops are great at there jobs and i'm not trying to state otherwise, but saying that all cops who do something illegal have an agenda making there actions legal is bullhonky.

Again, refer to my above statements. I wasn't the first one to stereotype and pigeon-hole. The posters who I was referring to in my posts know what they said and what they meant. I like fast cars too, and I would argue against any fellow cop who tried to paint me as a reckless street racer. My point is that no one jumped in to defend good cops until I said something. Now the argument has gone to "There are good cops out there, but some do bad things!" Fine! I agree with that. My issue is with stereotyping cops in general. yes, I know you all have some examples of cops busting red lights, etc. My point is, I give those guys the benefit of the doubt until I see otherwise. I know some people will fault me for it, but that's the way it goes. Internal Affairs (the cops who investigate crooked cops) even investigates before passing judgment. 99.9% of the time, if you see us blow a red light, we're going somewhere! Yes, we want to get there quick because a verbal argument, while not an emergency, can escalate. Maybe a shoplifter is causing problems with security. Maybe someone called 911, and all we can hear is screaming in the background. My point is that it's pretty black and white in policy as to when I can go code 3 and when I can't. I take it upon myself to break policy a little bit in order to bust a light to get somewhere in an expedient time frame because that's what my citizens want. When they show up to their house and their front door is kicked open, they're usually too afraid to go in, and rightly so. It's my job to do that, and cops (whether you believe it or not) want to ensure your safety as soon as possible. So unless you want to follow the next cop you see bust a light all the way to his call and go into an uncleared residence with him, I'm sorry but you don't know what you're talking about. Just because my job is in the public eye does not mean you have ANY idea how to do it.

As to your comment about the FD, believe me, I'm intimately familiar with their ISO class certifications, etc. It still doesn't change the fact that it's dumb to run code to every call you go to. PDs have policies in place for a reason. Running code is dangerous, plain and simple, both for me and the motoring public. People are unpredictable. We try to only take on the risk when the alternative isn't preferable. FDs don't have that discretion...they will literally run code even when it really isn't necessary. Not a slam against firefighters, but rather the policies they operate within. But you're right. I wouldn't know anything about that. And I'm the one that generalizes and makes assumptions? Right.

From your post it sound like you're a cop. Hey, i don't got an issue w/ cops using their sirens when responding to calls and shiets. But personally i've seen a few times where a cop just turns on his sirens, make a left turn while everyone scramble to get out of the way. As soon as he's done turning, he'd turn off his siren. WTF?

I understand your frustration, but I've explained that as well as I can I think.

Whats the matter, Father a cop? That is the most close minded statement i've ever heard. Don't believe in good-cop-bad-cop? How about the blue shield (cops lying to defend other cops)?I DARE you to come spend some time out on the island in NY. These suffolk county cops here are some of the highest paid county cops in the nation. Believe me when i say it gets to their head.

NY has a hands free cell phone law. I watch people turn without signals, talking on the phone, swerving across 2 lanes, but they pull over the honda civic behind him that is obeying all the laws, just because it has dark tinted windows, rims, and aftermarket bumpers. TRUST ME, i was the honda civic. I've NEVER been pulled over in my Jeep or my Altima. I used to get pulled over twice a month in the summer when i owned my civic.

I thought I made it pretty clear that I was a cop. If not, for the record, I am.

Really? Close-minded? Again. I'm just trying to defend those that aren't here to speak for their actions. Any cop who's abusing his power deserves everything that's coming to him. I will not EVER judge a cop unless he's been investigated and found guilty by internal affairs or by a jury of his peers. Sorry. Yes. There is a bond there. That bond comes from knowing that if I'm fighting for my life on the side of the road, and an unarmed, off duty cop passes by, he's stopping to help, whether I know him or not, whether I hate him or not, whether I f*cked his sister or not. All issues go out the window when one of our lives is on the line. I just can't say that for every citizen that I meet, and that's okay. I can't expect people to risk their lives for me.

Does that mean I would lie for another if they're accused of committing a major crime? No. How about something minor? I've never been put in that position, so I can't make an honest statement. Would you lie for a family member? That's the closest thing I can compare it to. It's impossible to explain to someone that doesn't live it. There's a reason that cops flock to the funerals of officers they didn't even know. When was the last time the majority of you have ever gone to grieve, honestly grieve, over someone you've never met? I'm averaging two a year now, so pardon me if I don't "trust" you enough to take your post at face value and automatically condemn the cops in your examples.

So again who's close-mnided? Me, or those here that are trying to place all cops under one big umbrella of corruption?


Modified by 121traffic at 7:38 AM 3/9/2008

[generic808]

121, don't worry about it man. As a former LEO, and now current FF, I've been there and done that. Some people, if not most, seem to toss all of us in a single bag and consider us scum. I've tried on many ocassions to explain from "our" point of view to the fellahs here, but I've given up hope. Just because "they heard" or "it happened to my friend" or whatnot, the classify all of us the same, no matter what. People don't realize that things tend to get overexagerated when it gets told from person to person. Someone gets pulled over for speeding, then 4 people later the story goes like this:

So, "my friend" was driving down the highway and for NO APPARENT REASON, a popo pulled him over. Next thing you know he gets 4 tickets for speeding, reckless driving, exhibition of speed, and running a red light. "My friend" asked, why are you pulling me over, and the cop pulls his gun, and orders my friend to the ground, face down, legs crossed. He started yelling because he was getting "abused" by the cop, and next thing you know they slap him with resisting arrest AND assaulting an officer.

But like you said, next time they call 911 and we take long to respond, now they'll know why. Nobody will ever know until they're on the other side. Til then, just let them think what they want to. No sense in you wasting your time and energy trying to explain something that people can't comprehend.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but if this thread gets out of hand, I'm going to lock it real quick. <---Oops...maybe I'm abusing my power like cops always do I tried to stay out of this one, but I couldn't resist. We're here to discuss, not attack.

[121traffic]

Thanks, generic.

I'm not here to attack anyone personally. If anyone feels like I'm attacking them as a person, sorry. I'm only responding to what people post.

[leeroy300]

I to am not here to attack just here to learn and inform ..... I would never generalize and say all cops are the same I just wanted to state that there are flaws in ppl both police and civilians ......... maybe confiscating a car would be a solution if a person is habitualy causing problems .. not for the first time offender ... once again just my $.02 and plz don't take my comments personal

[generic808]

Thanks, generic.

I'm not here to attack anyone personally. If anyone feels like I'm attacking them as a person, sorry. I'm only responding to what people post.

Don't worry about it, I know you weren't attacking anyone. It seems the guys are attacking you. Uhh...or is that the brotherhood impairing my judgement

By the way, I just wanted to brag about my new Surefire M6. I've been using a modified 6P for many of years, along with a modded G2 as a back-up. My super-bright CREE Q5 200+ lumen 6P can't even touch this 500 lumen beast!! It'll easily light up 200 yards, no problem. What torch are you using?

[121traffic]

From the TPMS thread...

Generic, I'm with you on the necessity of a good light or 3! In my car I keep a Surefire Executive E2E. At work, along withmy SL20, and the Surefire X200a on my duty gun, I keep a Blackhawk Gladius on my belt. I've never gone for the super-bright stuff out there, but I do like a good quality light!

[08altima35]

nobody ever said all cops sucked, and nobody ever said all cops were honest and by the book. but nobody should say all cops should be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. being proven innocent in a court doesn't mean that your not guilty.

[generic808]

I guess I missed that post. SF just released their new E1B which I'm considering as a back-up becuase of its size. Lord knows I have too many torches already though, and the gf complains that I spend too much money. I've tried forever to explain to her the importance of this type of gear, to no avail of course. I haven't broke it to her about my new M6 yet I'm sure she'll freak when she finds out how much I paid for it

[generic808]

nobody ever said all cops sucked, and nobody ever said all cops were honest and by the book. but nobody should say all cops should be considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. being proven innocent in a court doesn't mean that your not guilty.

Uhh...and why not?! Every U.S. citizen has the legal right to be considered innocent until proven guilty. It's part of our Constitution and you should know this already! Unless of course you're not a citizen, then this doesn't apply to you.

The Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution reads, in part, "No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law...

[Shift_Altima]

I know I said I was done, but by all means, I'm happy to address the things being said here.

As for your example, did you follow them into the shop? Maybe they got an alarm. Maybe someone inside just got their wallet stolen. Maybe someone got assaulted. I don't know. My point is that until I do, I won't pass judgment. There are so many possibilities that it's a waste of time to list them all. But since it was a donut shot, you just assume that they were there to fatten up. Right on.

So you want to pigeon-hole every cop in your area beacuse of the actions of a few that you've seen? Then you want to fault me for trying to defend cops, bolstering your argument with "I respect most cops though."? Really? That's a laughable point of view, at best. Let's remember who started with the blanket statements here. Here's a hint: It wasn't me or any other cop. It was the posters who commented "Cops are the worst" or "**** the fuzz." If you want to attack generalization, why don't you go after those guys? Seriously, you're putting yourself out there as a lone champion against generalization. What you're really telling me is that you would rather not have me do to people in this thread what people do to cops every day, and that is lump people together for no reason. So before you shout from your soapbox, why don't you examine your real motive? Your agenda here isn't to campaign against labeling. You'd like for me to think that, and you disguise your motives with statements like "I respect most cops." Oh really? Then why not stand up for the ones you respect when people spout rubbish here about how all cops are corrupt? I'd suspect you don't do that because A.) You don't really feel that way, or B.) It's not the popular viewpoint.

Of course I'm not saying that there aren't dirty cops out there. Of course there are, just like there are doctors that scam their patients, businessmen that embezzle from their companies, and stockbrokers that steal from their shareholders. All those jobs are based on trust, too, and yet those people don't get the microscopic examination that policework does. Police corruption is magnified because the media likes to splash those headlines across the front page. It's a very public job. If someone commits a crime, and it's found that they were hired as a police officer in 1986, and were only employed for 4 months, you can bet the headline would be "Former Cop Goes on Crime Spree!"

That's okay, though. I can live with that. I know that I'm honest, and I know I signed on for the scrutiny. It chaps my as*, though, to come in here and see ungrateful people stereotype ALL cops as bad, simply for the actions of one or two that did something that they perceived as wrong. Can I explain the actions in your example? Not off hand. You can be damn sure, however, that I would listen to what they have to say for themselves before I passed judgment were I in a position to do so. But that's too much for you, huh? Guilty before proven innocent, tried and convicted in the court of NICOforums, right? Please.

Modified by 121traffic at 7:38 AM 3/9/2008

Wow lol. This took an interesting turn. I am entitled to say that alot of cops are as*holes but I still respect many of them. I don't see how you can be so upset about that. I got pulled over for 40 in a 25 and taking a turn a bit wide.. the cop asked me how old I was.. why I was in a hurry.. and if I had been drinking. I answered all 3 quetsions respectuflly and he didn't even give me a warning. I'm not saying I respect him becuase he let me off the hook and I didn't get in trouble.. but that cops understand that for the most part.. people are not out to cause problems and being able to give someone a ticket/arrest for something they deserve and choosing not to because you understand it was a mistake is respectable.

Ofcourse I'm gonna be pissed off about the dunkin donut incident.. dozens of times I've seen cops do similar things such as fly thru a crowded intersection with their lights on and then continue driving just because they didn't want to stand and wait. Another instance.. I work near Raceway Park. It was waterfest Volkswagen and Audi day and the road was backed up for MILES so a cop decided he was too important to wait and flicked on his lights and drove down the street into a strip mall with a pizzaria. Sure.. argue that there was a stickup in the pizza place or a lady's purse was stolen. But from what I've seen cops do.. I don't know if that's the case.

Wow. For you to say that cops get more light from the media than doctors and stockbrokers is laughable. How many stories have you read about doctors who got sued.. or were cuaght doing illegal stuff.. or anything of that sort. Don't sit here and say that cops get bashed while everyone else sits and watches. The media rips everyone apart.. cops are no different.. so get over it.

Who said anything about anyone being ungrateful? We know that the law enforcment officers do their jobs for the most part.. to the best of their abilities and obviously giving out tickets is part of the job. The same way a doctor has to prick your finger to get a blood sample. Eveyone hates it.. but it's inevitable and for eveyrone's well being. Noone is generalizing. Go back and read my posts. I said that the majority do their job honestly.. while few abuse their powers fully. Don't put words in my mouth.

[rjdmmfl1]

Wow lol. This took an interesting turn. I am entitled to say that alot of cops are as*holes but I still respect many of them. I don't see how you can be so upset about that. I got pulled over for 40 in a 25 and taking a turn a bit wide.. the cop asked me how old I was.. why I was in a hurry.. and if I had been drinking. I answered all 3 quetsions respectuflly and he didn't even give me a warning. I'm not saying I respect him becuase he let me off the hook and I didn't get in trouble.. but that cops understand that for the most part.. people are not out to cause problems and being able to give someone a ticket/arrest for something they deserve and choosing not to because you understand it was a mistake is respectable.

Ofcourse I'm gonna be pissed off about the dunkin donut incident.. dozens of times I've seen cops do similar things such as fly thru a crowded intersection with their lights on and then continue driving just because they didn't want to stand and wait. Another instance.. I work near Raceway Park. It was waterfest Volkswagen and Audi day and the road was backed up for MILES so a cop decided he was too important to wait and flicked on his lights and drove down the street into a strip mall with a pizzaria. Sure.. argue that there was a stickup in the pizza place or a lady's purse was stolen. But from what I've seen cops do.. I don't know if that's the case.

Wow. For you to say that cops get more light from the media than doctors and stockbrokers is laughable. How many stories have you read about doctors who got sued.. or were cuaght doing illegal stuff.. or anything of that sort. Don't sit here and say that cops get bashed while everyone else sits and watches. The media rips everyone apart.. cops are no different.. so get over it.

Who said anything about anyone being ungrateful? We know that the law enforcment officers do their jobs for the most part.. to the best of their abilities and obviously giving out tickets is part of the job. The same way a doctor has to prick your finger to get a blood sample. Eveyone hates it.. but it's inevitable and for eveyrone's well being. Noone is generalizing. Go back and read my posts. I said that the majority do their job honestly.. while few abuse their powers fully. Don't put words in my mouth.

Man, everytime we start talking about police, $hit gets crazy in here... I think everyone has valid points, however, I don't think we will ever all agree on this point, not regarding LEO's. As a LEO, I'm guessing that 121traffic had previous positive experiences with LEO's prior to becoming one. And now that he is one, he probably has an even greater respect for his brothers on the force, and would naturally place them into the category of innocent until proven guilty.

But 121traffic, you must understand that many folks have completely different histories with police, and for potentially understandable personal reasons, don't like , trust, or give them the benefit of the doubt. So for them, it becomes very plausable to assume that, after personally seeing cops bend the traffic rules, perhaps necessarily, perhaps unnecessarily, they will automatically assume its "just another cop abusing his authority"

I've been around cops all my life, I've seen good ones and bad ones, but due to many personal situatons, run-ins, and stereotyping I've seen as an adult, I absolutely don't like or trust cops in general. Its not right, and its not fair, but for me, its very justifiable due to my experiences with them as an adult. The issue becomes even more convoluted when you bring the stereotypes of racial profling, age profiling, vehicle proiling etc into the mix. And although you may say none of that has to do with this thread, they abosolutely do... a person's history with any other group is going to seriously impact future beliefs and stereotypes of anyone fitting into that group. It just does, and there's no way around it... so 121traffic, I def understand your defense of cops, especially due to your personal knowledge of what situations can lead to a cop abusing traffic laws, but at least understand that for some folks that see cops abuse their power ALL THE TIME, for THOSE folks, they will not, and understandably so, give cops the benefit of the doubt when it comes to potential traffic violations!

To be fair, I think the truth is that we as the general public most likely OVERESTIMATE the number of cops that bend the rules ... however I also think that LEO's and former LEO's UNDERESTIMATE the number of times cops bend the rules... and of course, the truth is probably somwhere in between!

[McClane]

Where is the law that cops get to keep your car if you are caught street racing? So they are going to take my car and I'm supposed to keep paying the payment? Yeah right!

[adidas2go]

boooo

[121traffic]

rjdmmfl1, thanks for your post. First off, I will say that in my teen years, I had a deep distrust for law enforcement. Contrary to what many might think, my experiences with police were not great. The difference, though, is that I was NEVER quick to categorize LE as a whole. I ALWAYS reserved my comments for the cops I actually dealt with. Even with my bad experiences, I got into the profession because of a deep respect for the importance of it. Even if I didn't particularly like the stuff I had experienced. And now that I'm a cop, I can potentially see why the cops acted the way they did, even if I didn't know why at the time.

Even now, as a police officer, I detest anything that a cop does that compromises the integrity of this job. You are correct in that I differ from most here in that I wait to pass judgment on someone. Just like people do for their immediate family. If someone accused your mom of stealing, they better damn well have their facts straight and they better get a fair chance at defending themselves, right?

I'm intimately familiar with the bond we experience, but I'm also no stranger to whistle blowing on bad cops either. A couple years ago, a good friend of mine was wrapped up in a scandalous criminal trial. He's a cop at my department, and was involved in a high speed chase involving officers from a neighboring department. When the suspect was actually caught, my friend thought some of the force used was excessive. Eventually, things got so far that he was compelled to testify against other cops at a public trial. The case dragged on, and it killed my friend to testify against other cops. They were his brothers, and it tore him apart to speak against them. But he did it, because it was the right thing to do. To this day, relations between our departments is strained. Their cops were eventually found not guilty. In my eyes, the issue is dead, and I want to move on. Bad blood dies hard, though. So forgive me if I don't take kindly when someone paints me and the cops I personally know with the corruption brush.

I know that I won't probably change anyones viewpoint here. It was not my intention to do so. rjm, you stated your position respectfully and logically, and I'm okay with that. We'll just have to agree to disagree...plus, I dig your writeups of technical stuff here. : My issue is with people that come on here and just want to call cops in general crooked. You want to say that the cop you dealt with was an as*hole? Fine, have at it. Does it hurt my feelings? Hell no. But if someone wants to come in here and talk sh*t about ALL cops (because I'm a part of that group), I'll talk it right back. All day. Especially when they just back it up with emotive rhetoric, rather than logic like your post.

And as to cops in the media, I don't know how else to convince you that the microscope is aimed at cops more so than most others. Even the media will tell you that any store involving either schools and sex, or police corruption are front page. And ANYTHING involving anyone connected to LE gets put into that category. If an off-duty cop gets into a brawl in a bar, it's front page news. If an off-duty cop gets caught stealing a candybar, it's news. Most people could care less if the average private citizen gets arrested.

[shift_mikey]

121traffic. Let me start off by saying i appreciate the fact that you are honest in your feelings, that you stand up for what you believe in and live for. Bravo for being a model cop, THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH OF YOU!

You are 110% right that the media blows everything out of proportion. Now just listen to a scenario, and understand where harsh feelings come from sometimes.

I sat down to dinner with my parents the other night, the news was on the TV. They had a story running of a convicted corrections officer, who had raped and abused 9+ women. He achieved this by using his badge, and threatening women with his fire arm. He even grabbed one of the womens 2 year old children, and held a gun to his head until the woman did what he wanted.

Sick, twisted stories like that make it easy to label authorities like that, ones that are supposed to be in a position of good judgement. Look what happened with 9-11..... most americans hate anybody that even ressembles a terrorlst...

That being said, if i was in an accident, or my house was being burgalerized, you are darn right i'd expect the cop to blow every red light to get to me as fast as humanly possible. I just can't stand it when certian people let the power get to their head, and abuse it because they have a badge and think they are immune to the laws

for the cops that do their job.

the cops that abuse the power

[dangeris]

OK...now I just received a call from my wife who was just stopped by a PA State Police while she was driving on I-81 heading back home from visiting a friend in NYC. She wasn't speeding and she was driving on the right hand lane when she past the state tropper who was sitting in the median. He pulls up behind her and turns on the lights and he stopped her for having tinted windows. Like he doesn't have anything better to do! Needless to say my wife is very upset and the cop cited her $108! obviously he thought he was pulling over some teenage but how many teenagers do you know drive Acura TL-S? Not many that I know of. Luckily I have a good friend who is a PA state Trooper and he's gonna help me fight this ticket! In the meanwhile I'll be sending in the $50 collateral that they require and WILL appear in court with all the necessary information to beat this ticket!

BAD COP.....NO DONUTS!!!!

[mcheddadi]

Can you really fight a ticket for tinted window? Doesn't the cop use a light meter ?

[cuzzbubba420]

Yeah, most of the time. I opted not to install anything darker than 15% all-around becomes the fines are getting steeper.

[mcheddadi]

But the cop has proof since he used a light meter, no?

[08altima35]

driving in the right lane at the speed limit during the day in a acura tl. instead on giving a warning the bastard actually gave a citation? sucks dude, but typical. maybe this kinda rediculousness is what we're all talking about.

[generic808]

08altima35, keep in mind though, the officer was just doing his job. Laws are put into place for a reason, and if tint is illegal in your state, then that's why she got a citation. Simple fact of the matter is that the tint on the car was not legal, hence the citation. Simple as that! You can't come down on someone for upholding laws and regulations. It's his job!! Think about it folks!

[08altima35]

i have a story of being somewhat above the law. back when i had a mustang gt i kept a NTTA F.F. sticker badge on the front windshield. Do you think any officer ever gave me a ticket or even a verbal warning. hell no they didn't, regardless of how fast or how rediculous the stunt i was trying to pull off. as soon as they checked my windshield for up to date registration and inspection and saw the sticker there were no questions asked. just, "have a nice day sir."with a "right back atcha sir" from me.and no, i wasn't posing with the sticker, i was in the fire academy at the time.

[dangeris]

08altima35, keep in mind though, the officer was just doing his job. Laws are put into place for a reason, and if tint is illegal in your state, then that's why she got a citation. Simple fact of the matter is that the tint on the car was not legal, hence the citation. Simple as that! You can't come down on someone for upholding laws and regulations. It's his job!! Think about it folks!

hold on Eric...I hear what your saying but here in PA, yes there is laws regarding this but they are unclear and up to the "interpretation" of the law. My wife was cited for violating PA code 67 175.67 (d)(4). Which states:

A sun screening device or other material which does not permit a person to see or view the inside of the vehicle is prohibited, unless otherwise permitted by FMVSS No. 205...

In other words, as long as tinting is 'permitted by FMVSS No. 205', then it is NOT PROHIBITED by either the PA STATUTE or the PA ADMINISTRATIVE CODE written to clarify the Statute.

Now the next question is what is FMVSS No.205? Good question! FMVSS No. 205 (Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard). - Such Standards are incorporated by reference into State Law - However, FMVSS205 does not prohibit window tinting or specify percentages of transmittance. It does mention (Section 5.1.1) that windows must conform to American National Standard ANS Z-26.

Again, this begs the question of what is and what does ANS Z-26 say?

American National Standard Z-26 does not prohibit window tinting below a certain percentage. It does define a test (section 5.2.3) in which certain glazing materials shall show... transmittance of not less than 70%.., but a footnote says 'See Section 4 and Table 1 for locations in vehicles where glazing material complying with this test is required'.

The referenced sections and tables DO NOT say that such glass is required for driver and passenger windows. It only says that 'material complying with the following [tests] 'may be used anywhere in a motor vehicle.' It DOES NOT say 'must be used', or even 'shall be used.' And the context makes it clear that glass for these locations NEED NOT pass all of the tests mentioned!

Prohibitive language is used elsewhere in the Standard where the intention is to prohibit use of specific materials, but not in reference to light transmittances of windows!

Any restrictions made by this Standard apply to ALL WINDOWS, not just after-market safety window film! Neither Police nor PennDOT can recommend only enforcing a law against a select group of people!

In other words,..the cop that cited my wife was just lacking in quotas this month and needed to give out as much tickets as he can that day! Furthermore on the bottom left hand of the ticket in section 62 under "special activities the officer has written down "Smooth Operator". I asked my State Police friend what this meant and he chuckled and it all made sense to him why she got the ticket. Apparently Smooth Operator is a "activity" or "operation" here in PA (not sure anywhere else)where a State Cop NEEDS to give out as many tickets as he can to fill his quota thus generating revenue for the state. Revenue for the state by persecuting the innocent! Hmmm...Interesting!...Ain't that some ****!!!!!!!
Modified by dangeris at 8:24 PM 3/9/2008

[dangeris]

And another thing too... The officer in question used a tint meter on the window to measure the transmittance of light... HOWEVER, how he did it was unlawful!

If an officer noticed that he was unable to "see or view the inside of the vehicle through the windshield, side wing or side window " then YOU HAVE VIOLATED the PA Statute and HE WOULD have probable cause to stop your vehicle (not to search it), and cite you or prohibit you from operating your vehicle...no problems there.

EVIDENCE OBTAINED ILLEGALLY IS NOT ADMISSIBLE IN COURT

If measurements of a window were taken without a search warrant or the owner's consent, a court would rule such evidence as inadmissible.

This is where the officer was wrong in his actions. He didn't have a search warrant NOR did he asked permission. He merely told my wife to roll down her window half way. He then proceeded to take measurements! (collecting evidence)...WHAT?....Collecting evidence without a warrant or asking permission!!!!!!!

But as we know, THERE IS NO STATUTE IN PA BANNING TINT BELOW 70% , so even if the readings were admitted, they would be irrelevant. Not only are the meters not approved, there simply is no Law (Statute) that even mentions percentages or transmittances.

And SINCE THERE IS NO STATUTE BANNING TINT ALTOGETHER OR BY PERCENTAGES, if an officer stopped a vehicle only because he noticed the presence of tint, that would not constitute sufficient probable cause to warrant a vehicle stop and, as stated above, IT IS ILLEGAL FOR AN OFFICER TO STOP A VEHICLE WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE. Therefore the Court would rule thatTHE ENTIRE STOP WAS DONE IN VIOLATION OF THE RIGHTS OF THE CITIZEN AND WAS THEREFORE AN ILLEGAL ACT.

This is the way the Law is supposed to work.But remember, we have the best legal system that money can buy, and the State and the Police often choose to ignore the Law and can use your own money to take advantage of you and trample our rights in court. If we want justice we'll have to use our own money.

[cuzzbubba420]

Once he uses that light meter you're screwed. I got snagged by a trooper in my 97 integra w/ limo tint all around and the first thing he did before speaking was put that d*mn meter on my window.. (I knew I was screwed from then on)

However, after reading again you do have some very valid points and I only know about FL law and anything under 15% and your normally looking for some fines..