The Welded Differential Discussion/Questions thread

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Okay, I figure it's time to start a thread that will answer all questions about this highly controversial topic. Not only that, but have a general discussion about welded diffs. This is not the "Oh, I've never had a welded before but I don't like them, blah blah blah." If you have never had one, don't talk smack. Feel free to ask questions, however. Talk about your setups, who welded it, cost, etc.

Let me start.

I have daily driven on a welded diff for 3 months now. I really do enjoy having something that gets rid of that god-awful open diff. But like everything else, ever, it has it's pros and cons. Let me just say, if you plan on doing ANY kind of grip racing or "spirited driving" this is not the route you should go.

Pros: Not an open diff.Insanely predicable. It's always locked, you know that. If it isn't locked, you've got bigger problems.It's fun to see the looks people give when you chirp tires in parking lots.

Cons:It wears tires down quicker.If you have good tires in the rear (like I do, I run Falkens) it will put even more strain on axles. I haven't broken one yet, but I'm sure it's only a matter of time. Be sure to have plenty of extra axles. You can get them for -$3.The car fights you while turning.Turning radius goes out the window.

I'm running a welded on stock axles, with a stock 4.08. Spider gears welded together, then those welds were welded to the housing of the diff guts.Supporting mods: Aluminum 1 piece driveshaft. PBM subframe collars. Nismo motor/trans mounts.



Total cost: $0A buddy of mine welds for a living, so he did it for free. He even gave me a spare housing so I can change between open and welded by just swapping the whole pumpkin.

So there you have it, feel free to ask any questions or just talk about it and discuss your setup.
Modified by ILoveMyRHS13 at 3:15 AM 1/5/2010

[Chris28]

It's not as bad as everyone says it is. Parking lots are a pain, backing down my driveway is a pain, but other than that there aren't really any cons. After driving with a vlsd for about a year, the difference in daily driving was extremely noticeable. It tends to understeer a lot. When drifting it just means you have to have a more aggressive style and drive faster to initiate the drift.

I like mine and won't be changing it out anytime soon.

Welded by Danny at RE_Spec Garage. 50 bucks.

Supporting modifications: Subframe spacers, a subframe brace, RP Sport subframe bar things, and nismo motor mounts. Stock axles, stock gearing, stock driveshaft, and stock suspension arms. S13.

Modified by Chris28 at 12:11 AM 1/5/2010
Modified by Chris28 at 7:16 AM 1/5/2010

[mrgreeneyes]

this should be good.

you should add the SUPPORTING mods you have for such a setup.

IE: upgraded mounts, alum/steel 1 or 2 piece shafts, subframe collars/bushings/solid sleeves, bushing kits in the rear arms, what type of rear arms you have, S13 or S14, and what axle/ring/pinion youre running

all the complimentary stuff makes a HUGE difference in experience.

for instance i HATED my TOMEI 2WAY diff til i put a 1 pc alum shaft and nismo mounts in. it got even better with full rear arms and PSM solid subframe riser sleeves....


Modified by mrgreeneyes at 3:10 AM 1/5/2010

[Chris28]

Good call senor green eyes. I will edit my post to include that information.

[boostdd]

side questionhow much do 1 piece driveshafts go for? and where can i source one?

[mrgreeneyes]

side questionhow much do 1 piece driveshafts go for? and where can i source one?

this isnt the "driveshaft thread"

one popped up recently. find it. dont litter this thread with your laziness.

damn. less than one day and we have people failing at this thread.

[OutToWinPAHC]

My diff is welded with 3.698 gears. (Q45/J30 housing with front DSSS section machined off, Z32TT input pinion and ring gear, welded R200 (full fill weld))

I don't get nasty reverse wheel hop like some poeple do, a little bump when backing into my driveway with my wheel cut all the way. Feels fine driving, just gotta take hard turns a little slower. Overall I like it and the total cost was under 100 bucks including brake clean, side and pinion seals, RTV, oil and welding.

Pros -Full lock, provides faster hook from a dead stop.Balanced power, less torque steerCheap to achieve

Cons - Tires take a beatingWaiting for an axle to snap.... then I am off to driveshaftshop.com for the 1000+ HP axle package.

[240life]

I run welded..got it done for the price of materials and a 6 pack ($20).I love it on the track for drifting, it's fun on the street once you get used to 100% full locking diff. Rain can be scary if your not easy on the go pedal. I run solid motor-mounts(forget brand) shaft masters 1pc alum drive shaft and a 6 puck sprung ceramic clutch, the car is very predictable and I feel much more connected to my car with this set-up vs/ stock

[240sxJoe91]

Generally what is the average life of tires with the welded diff. I would do this but my car is the super hicas so I would have to get the hicas delete kit before I did this....

[Chris28]

My daily tires show barely any more wear than my fronts. They have been on for at least 500 miles so far and they practically look new.

[liquid_cool]

i run a welded..cost $0...did it myself....i love the predictability of the welded -vs- open or even lsd's...once you learn to controll the understeer..its a joy to drive from that point on..

pro's....predictable,easyer handling dynamics,better responce times,faster out of the corners.

cons.....tire usage

i run welded diff...alimunum 1 piece shaft..yamato garage camber, caster ,ruca's ...hockey puck mounts and a 10 point roll cage ( for body stability! )

allthou i would like to upgrade to a 3way cusco or sumpin along those lines..due to the economy i went this route and im not regretting this choice..its cheep and easy to maintain...for dayly driving..i recomend hard as rock tires..these will last you longer and limit the strain on the axles..

[OutToWinPAHC]

The insides of my tires are bald after 500 miles. with -1.75 camber, but those tires are also too skinny and i was beating on it. These were also crappy general tires on the rear.

I plan to run a Nitto 555's next on the rear, much wider, and going more nuetral on camber.

[Gabes13]

Question.MGE, why did you hate your 2 way?Would you guys recommend purchasing other mounts or arms when welding your diff?How much of a difference does it make when you do upgrade those things?And why?

[E7-S14]

Question.MGE, why did you hate your 2 way?Would you guys recommend purchasing other mounts or arms when welding your diff?How much of a difference does it make when you do upgrade those things?And why?

B/C a 2-way isn't exactly honkydori DD either.i have a Cusco 2-way and at times i dont like it.

but god forbid i EVER go back to a welded... or open...

the alum driveshaft +2-way thing you brought up is interesting.care to give a bit more info on why it was so much better mrgreeneyes

[Krew126]

Question.Would you guys recommend purchasing other mounts or arms when welding your diff?

I would also like to know this. Because my VLSD feels a little dangerous in the rain, but I think that's due to my horrible alignment specs.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

B/C a 2-way isn't exactly honkydori DD either.i have a Cusco 2-way and at times i dont like it.

but god forbid i EVER go back to a welded... or open...

the alum driveshaft +2-way thing you brought up is interesting.care to give a bit more info on why it was so much better mrgreeneyes

The 2 way didn't want to lock and was very weak feeling. I was there the day he installed his Nismo mounts and 1 piece aluminum driveshaft. It instantly made the diff lock much easier and made it feel much more aggressive. Drivetrain modifications compliment each other. Aftermarket differentials are made for, well, not aftermarket cars. They hate rubber bushings and stock things.

On to the tire discussion. The reason my tires are so shot is because of my horrendous alignment, not so much the alignment. I need to throw on my RUCAs and toe rods and get the damn thing aligned. Remember the harder the tire, the more tire chirp you'll get because of less grip, but the softer the tire, the less tire chirp because the tires will grip better, therefore putting greater strain on axles. I'm thinking about buying some axles from an advanced auto to utilize they're lifetime warranty.

Keep it up, guys, I like where this is going.

[Bumnah]

As I can't fathom why anyone would want a welded rear diff on a car that sees any type of street driving, I have a hard time seeing anything PRO of a welded diff.

Secondly, my interest is in road course driving. You want a varying amount of lock up and smooth transition from open to lock.

Breaking axles and other adverse side effects listed in this thread, making the case that a welded diff is simply a bad idea.

The strongest PRO of a welded diff listed is "zero cost". I'd rather spend $200 on a beat up old VLSD setup.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

If drifting is what you're after, or drag in OTW's case, a welded is a great alternative. Again, it's more predictable while drifting, you know that it's always going to be locked. It's also about driving style. If you drift aggressively and like to enter fast, a welded is perfect for you. It offers more grip than any other diff out there. Again, it's all about opinion and goals.

[mudvayne9790]

lovin this threadcan u explain why not being open is a pro?What do u mean by it being predictable?What does it mean when it locks? example?

[ILoveMyRHS13]

lovin this threadcan u explain why not being open is a pro?What do u mean by it being predictable?What does it mean when it locks? example?

1) Open diffs suck. Nothing good has ever come from an open diff.2) By predicable I mean that you know that the diff is ALWAYS locked. Where as a 2 way or 1.5 ways will lock at certain times.3) Welded diffs are always locked.

[mudvayne9790]

^ that didnt answer any of my questions

[E7-S14]

The 2 way didn't want to lock and was very weak feeling. I was there the day he installed his Nismo mounts and 1 piece aluminum driveshaft. It instantly made the diff lock much easier and made it feel much more aggressive.

Keep it up, guys, I like where this is going.

hmm weird.my 2-way is lock happy.Very predictable tho. but sometimes id rather have a vlsd for DD.

[OutToWinPAHC]

^ that didnt answer any of my questions

In an open diff one wheel is driven and the other just coast. (one legger) Jack the car up on standing have a buddy drive it, one wheel spins the other will just sit there (may turn a little)

Locked mean both wheels spin at the same time same speed (full spool, posi similar)

Limited or a locking diff are USUALLY open, but can lock under hard acceleration, deceleration, cornering. Some lock harder and more often based on the design. There are many types from Viscous, Helical, clutch, torsion, pnenatic air or fluid. Please look this up for more understating.

[mudvayne9790]

thanks i understand now

[AZ89two4Tsx]

Pros:

-Better hookup for launches-Keeps the car straighter, as opposed to an open diff.

Cons:

-Tire wear, it's quite substantial-Heavy wheel feel-ANNOYING SCRUBBING -Understeer

For me, the cons outweighed the pros, and after about 3 months, I threw an open back in. The annoying tire scrub just got too annoying for daily driving. All my drivetrain components are stock by the way.

Thanks to Suspicious Garage in AZ for my welded diff. $65 installed.

[SR24DET]

My DD has had a welded diff for 2 years. I love it. I would never change. I dont notice faster tire ware. Most of the time I dont notice it, except when I'm in a parking lot or doing a u-turn. I drift alot in the summer so its the way to go. Plus my buddy welded it for free! I wont ever buy a LSD.

[hbpignosePA]

i think this is a good idea if you want to drift and still daily your car;

i dont see myself ever doing this unless the vehicle has no alternatives (like my s12)

[Bumnah]

1) Open diffs suck. Nothing good has ever come from an open diff.2) By predicable I mean that you know that the diff is ALWAYS locked. Where as a 2 way or 1.5 ways will lock at certain times.3) Welded diffs are always locked.

Actually, the Lotus Exige (quite possibly one of the best handling cars made) comes with an open diff, LSD is an option. Most people opt not to the LSD also.

Predictable is not what I would call a welded diff.

You don't always want the diff locked. Example, one wheel in the air, one wheel on the ground. You don't want it locked.

[duffman1278]

Chicken or the egg?

[troskinatior]

Generally what is the average life of tires with the welded diff. I would do this but my car is the super hicas so I would have to get the hicas delete kit before I did this....

since your car is a hicas you have a vlsd. so instead of buying a open and welding it, you should shim your vlsd to a 2way, i heard good things about that.