The Welded Differential Discussion/Questions thread

[cheezy240]

I saw your thread when you first got your car, I didn't know it was a Hicas? I say rip it outGood find though

[813Drift]

When the welded diff is out of the car should I be able to turn it by hand? I keep hearing conflicting answers and no one will give me a solid response.

[Jerid]

When the welded diff is out of the car should I be able to turn it by hand? I keep hearing conflicting answers and no one will give me a solid response.

I know for a fact that you should be able to turn in by hand. When I had mine welded, we turned it a few times to make sure the weld splatter would work its way out of the gears.

To contribute to the rest of the thread:

I'm running a more-or-less stock KA with stock drivetrain. I've noticed that when making slow turns (typically in reverse or from a dead stop) that it requires more gas to get the car moving. It constantly wants to fight you.

-Understeer sucks, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be. -Driving in the rain isn't as bad as people make it out to be. You aren't going to get sideways unless you are being a tard/trying to break it loose.-Launching the car is 190831 times better, and it hooks up amazingly-tires chirp when going around corners, but it's not that bad. It really depends on the surface you are driving on.

[Future_gohan]

I have a welded diff with my 300ish hp ka, and I never had a problem in the rain, the rear end was always predictable, and obviously take offs were much better then when i had an open. I wouldn't use any other diff

[Bumnah]

Just wondering how many cars come equipped with a welded diff from the factory?

[slow40]

^ How many cars came equipped with a 2 way lsd? If you are looking into welding your diff or buying a lsd, you're not exactly worried about what came stock.

I've had a welded diff in my s13 for about a year now and I absolutely love it, until it's time to buy tires. It only goes stupid in the rain when you want it to, i.e. throttling a little. Greatest moment- turning by my coworker and him watching my rear tire dragging, face was priceless. He asked how I was doing that. lol

[kamikazestorm420]

Been DDing on a welded for over 2 years.

Pros:-Cheap

Cons:-Tires wear a bit quicker, but it mostly all depends on your alignment setting-If your an idiot, it's scary in the rain.-You chirp tires just by making a u-turn. (cops might be anal about that)-If you get a flat, let's hope you have another set of wheels that has the same tire size.-Axles broken? I've never broken one. (was driving on 255 RE01R's and my axles has been fine.)-I've had people come up to me to let me know that my car is making a weird noise from the back.-When coasting and making a right turn, have to put it back to 1st cause if your in 2nd at like 1200 rpmish, it'll jerk and look like you can't drive.

Yup. I don't mind DDing on a welded but i don't like it.Why do i still drive on it?If i didn't, i wouldn't be able to get up any driveways.

[Bumnah]

^ How many cars came equipped with a 2 way lsd? If you are looking into welding your diff or buying a lsd, you're not exactly worried about what came stock.

I've had a welded diff in my s13 for about a year now and I absolutely love it, until it's time to buy tires. It only goes stupid in the rain when you want it to, i.e. throttling a little. Greatest moment- turning by my coworker and him watching my rear tire dragging, face was priceless. He asked how I was doing that. lol

Lots of cars come equipped with LSD.Even a 2 way lsd unlocks.

[Chris28]

Basically the only pro is that it's good for drifting. Other than that it sucks, but for some people that's enough reason for them to daily it.

[TheRealNap0le0n]

I had an open and hated it... couldn't get my car sideways predictably at all... most often i'd get that awesome one tire fire while turning, not so awesome looking....

got my welded diff and I love it.

Pro:

More solid/ stable feeling in cornersIf rear end comes out in a turn i let off the gas and it comes backDrifting is more predictable and awesomethe car is more fun overallcost is 10% of a 2-wayawesome for drag racing

Con:

Tire wear? tires dont last long enough to care. drift spot every monday usuallyeasier to spin the car out if you suck at drivingyou have to becareful in the rain if you have a heavy foot.car makes noise when turning at slow speed but not a big dealthe extra traction makes it easier to develop wheelhop

Supporting mods:

Homemade poly motor mountsLots of cheap tires. ( mostly from drifting )

Overall:

I'll probably never buy a legit LSD after rocking this. Maybe i'll change my mind when i get some sticky meats on the rear.

After having the diff in my 240 i kinda wish i'd have tried it in my camaro b4 i got rid of it.

[Metal Angel]

with an open diff does the same wheel always turn? or does the diff choose the path of least resistance?

[troskinatior]

Just wondering how many cars come equipped with a welded diff from the factory?

Only the JDM ones were.

[Klits562]

with an open diff does the same wheel always turn? or does the diff choose the path of least resistance?

i too want to know this.

Also i always hear about people saying its easy to get in driveways with there welded and they are happy they dont have to worry about getting stuck with an open diff. But i have an open diff and i never ever ever ever have problems going up driveways

[Chris28]

with an open diff does the same wheel always turn? or does the diff choose the path of least resistance?

Path of least resistance.

i too want to know this.

Also i always hear about people saying its easy to get in driveways with there welded and they are happy they dont have to worry about getting stuck with an open diff. But i have an open diff and i never ever ever ever have problems going up driveways

You're not low enough.

[TheRealNap0le0n]

i too want to know this.

Also i always hear about people saying its easy to get in driveways with there welded and they are happy they dont have to worry about getting stuck with an open diff. But i have an open diff and i never ever ever ever have problems going up driveways

ppl with tight suspension set ups that the wheel doesnt sag when lifted have that problem...

the open dif apply power almost equally in a straight line assuming equal traction. It then favors newtons laws and favors the right wheel due to the way the torque "moves"

example spin a bike tire on a pole.... which direction does it want to lean... right.

that being said if the left wheel loses traction the open diff will burn that tire and apply no power to the right wheel

[Razi]

Just so you guys know, welded diff doesn't only see use in the drift world.A lot of guys run welded diffs in autocross, it helps keep the power get to the ground during turns that lift up one of the rear wheels.

Not perfect, but it works and has it's uses.

[motoman399]

Just wondering how many cars come equipped with a welded diff from the factory?

dude you arent very smart are you. have you ever ran a welded diff? probably not.

have you ever heard of a spool or mini spool. it is the same idea as welding. and people in the muscle car world pay some good money for a spool. in the 240 you cant buy a spool. so we weld them.

how many cars came stock with external waste gates, none that i know of. does that make them bad.... NO! in fact they are better.

i personally have a welded diff and i wouldnt be scared to let my girlfriend or my mom drive my car. if you arent trying to drive like a moron then you wont ever have a problem.

i dont think there is much more tire wear, the only time its wearing on the tires more is slow tight turns, which is about 5% of the time your driving. i had my buddy weld mine but i have welded two buddys since then. everyone i know that has one loves it. i have launched mine on rev limiter at the drag strip and never had a problem. i have burned about 5 sets of tires and never had a problem.

the only con i can think of is when you arent trying to call attention to yourself when turning tight. oh ya and my supporting mods are lowered on stock struts, sub frame spacers, oem rear sway bar, aftermarket front sway bar, front strut tower bar, 6 puk sprung clutch and 245/45-16's. WELDED DIFF GETS AN A+ IN MY BOOK
Modified by motoman399 at 7:45 PM 2/16/2010

[#1_Gun]

i drove my car around for awhile with open diff after i got it, then welded it myself at a buddys house. I wasnt familiar with his welder setup and didnt know the gas was empty (yes it was definately a newb mistake) i just went around the spider gears and then shoved it back in. few days later a piece of the weld came off and shot through my cover leaking my fluid out. on my way to work one day i was late and doing about eighty down a country road when the heat building friction decided to sieze up my pinion bearing and lockup both tires and scaring the F*#@ out of me. luckily no one else was around. i trailered it back to my buddys and got another open diff from a junk yard and rode like that for a while then took the welded diff to welding class and made some plates and welded it up proper. plus thoroughly cleaned it.. i put it in my car and went drift crazy, it was phenominal, yes it is how everyone else says about tire chirp, "pushing", and scary in the rain... so at that point i had two diffs one welded and one open i drove around the welded all summer just eatin up second hand tires. i put in the open in the fall cause i ran out of tire money and i was going to school ( no time to go out and play) but put it in for traction in the winter and kept it in ever since.

the only thing i dont like is probably not the diff but my suspension somewhere, its like if the left wheel gets better traction (ie: driving on ice with the right tire only) it will kick the back end over a little to "align" it with that tires track. Doe that make sense?

i checked my alignment and it was out of spec just barely..... idk lol didnt mean to write a novel.

[Bumnah]

dude you arent very smart are you. have you ever ran a welded diff? probably not.

have you ever heard of a spool or mini spool. it is the same idea as welding. and people in the muscle car world pay some good money for a spool. in the 240 you cant buy a spool. so we weld them.

how many cars came stock with external waste gates, none that i know of. does that make them bad.... NO! in fact they are better.

i personally have a welded diff and i wouldnt be scared to let my girlfriend or my mom drive my car. if you arent trying to drive like a moron then you wont ever have a problem.

i dont think there is much more tire wear, the only time its wearing on the tires more is slow tight turns, which is about 5% of the time your driving. i had my buddy weld mine but i have welded two buddys since then. everyone i know that has one loves it. i have launched mine on rev limiter at the drag strip and never had a problem. i have burned about 5 sets of tires and never had a problem.

the only con i can think of is when you arent trying to call attention to yourself when turning tight. oh ya and my supporting mods are lowered on stock struts, sub frame spacers, oem rear sway bar, aftermarket front sway bar, front strut tower bar, 6 puk sprung clutch and 245/45-16's. WELDED DIFF GETS AN A+ IN MY BOOK

Modified by motoman399 at 7:45 PM 2/16/2010

Did someone with a welded diff just call me stupid?

No. I've never own a welded diff. I've driven plenty of 2 way equipped 240s, none were any fun to drive around town for a prolonged period of time.

Can you tell me more about welded diffs? Please, use more completely pointless stories to further back up your point of view.

I like how you gave me a percentage of how much turning you do in a typical drive, that really shut me up.

You know you're technically in your car for 2.34% of the day, so you should just take the windshield and windows out too.

[mrgreeneyes]

bumnah! Your sassy lil a** is back! I missed you sweetie

[motoman399]

Did someone with a welded diff just call me stupid?

nope never said you were stupid. ill leave that one up to you

No. I've never own a welded diff. I've driven plenty of 2 way equipped 240s, none were any fun to drive around town for a prolonged period of time.

point proven

Can you tell me more about welded diffs? Please, use more completely pointless stories to further back up your point of view.

I like how you gave me a percentage of how much turning you do in a typical drive, that really shut me up.

You know you're technically in your car for 2.34% of the day, so you should just take the windshield and windows out too.

in case you didnt notice not my whole post was dedicated to you. just take a deep breath and chill. the internet can be tough sometimes....

why dont we replace the words "welded diff" with "spool" since essentially they are the same thing.

here is a little more about a spool. it will stomp on any vlsd in a side by side comparison in a drag race. ever heard of a cable, electric, or air locker? when they are locked they are positively locked. meaning that there is NO slipping just like a SPOOL. so now take your vlsd or open diff off roading (since we have established that the spool is superior in drag racing and drifting) and see how it does. then get back to us.

by the way this whole post was dedicated to you Bumnah

[slow40]

Lots of cars come equipped with LSD.Even a 2 way lsd unlocks.

I know many cars came lsd equipped. I was referring to the 2way lsd. There are many ways to put power down to both wheels, welding being one and installing 2way is another. The point I am trying to make is that just because it doesn't come from factory that way doesn't mean it's wrong.

[martins_240sx]

I have had my diff welded in both of my cars...I daily one of them, and like stated earlier if your not an idiot you will be fine. Upon installation it felt like I had a better grasp on all controll aspects. My tires dont wear as bad as i thought, and rain driving isnt that bad either. My other not so daily driver is a 450+ ka and all of that understeer and ruff jumpy tight turns totally goes away with a little gas. It is a cheap mod and I personally will keep my lincoln lockers before i ever spend 700+ dollars on a diff that in my opinion is less predictible and higher to maintain. On a side note i have only personally seen a broken axel on 1 240. He had his welded for 7 years and drifted every chance he could. when we removed his snapped ebrake line and what remained of an axel we could visually see that his problem was that he hadnt torqued his axel bolts goin to the pumpkin and that little bit of play is what eventually snapped his stuff. For everyone looking to do this mod and are weary about it, just use the web to search...we are not the only car group that does this. this gets my vote for best mod ever

[Chris28]

Just so you guys know, welded diff doesn't only see use in the drift world.A lot of guys run welded diffs in autocross, it helps keep the power get to the ground during turns that lift up one of the rear wheels.

Not perfect, but it works and has it's uses.

O RLY?

I always thought autocross gurus hated welded diffs with a passion because it broke the rear end loose before it's benefits were noticed. Unless you're running no front sway bar for turn in, I think it would hinder performance. Granted I've never autocrossed, so I wouldn't know. Next summer I guess I'll find out haha.

Not trying to argue, just wondering. Bumnah, have any input? I'm willing to bet you're the most experienced track driver in this thread, I appreciate your responses. They also give me a good laugh haha.

[Bumnah]

O RLY?

I always thought autocross gurus hated welded diffs with a passion because it broke the rear end loose before it's benefits were noticed. Unless you're running no front sway bar for turn in, I think it would hinder performance. Granted I've never autocrossed, so I wouldn't know. Next summer I guess I'll find out haha.

Not trying to argue, just wondering. Bumnah, have any input? I'm willing to bet you're the most experienced track driver in this thread, I appreciate your responses. They also give me a good laugh haha.

A.) I am NOT an experienced track driver.B.) There is no right answer. In some situations having the rear wheels spinning at the same time is a good thing, and sometimes it's a bad thing.

When it's a good thing and when it's a bad thing really depends on the situation and the car setup.

Having it locked together all the time is NOT ideal. The reason welded diffs came to become so popular is because they're free, not because they're superior in any way.

[Bumnah]

nope never said you were stupid. ill leave that one up to you

point proven

in case you didnt notice not my whole post was dedicated to you. just take a deep breath and chill. the internet can be tough sometimes....

why dont we replace the words "welded diff" with "spool" since essentially they are the same thing.

here is a little more about a spool. it will stomp on any vlsd in a side by side comparison in a drag race. ever heard of a cable, electric, or air locker? when they are locked they are positively locked. meaning that there is NO slipping just like a SPOOL. so now take your vlsd or open diff off roading (since we have established that the spool is superior in drag racing and drifting) and see how it does. then get back to us.

by the way this whole post was dedicated to you Bumnah

No one is arguing the effectiveness of having both wheels spinning at the same speed. I'm simply stating having them spinning at the same speed ALL the time is a hindrance.

Companies offer adjustments on their differentials so you can dial in how aggressively the diff locks.

My VLSD is from an early 90s Nissan in Japan. As used as it is, I'm sure it more closely resembles an open diff than a LSD.

I also haven't drank bleach to know it's bad for me, but I know it is through the use of common sense.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Bumsies, sweetheart, we never said they were the best thing out there (okay, well some people might have.)

Do we get on you for having a monster truck? Yes? Oh. That's besides the point.

We're just trying to setup our cars to learn how to drive them. I know a couple local guys that might as well be Formula D licensed that rock welded diffs because they like how predictable they are the most predictable. It's all in personal taste.

This is not a "grip racing" thread; clearly. From what I've see, you're looking at a welded diff at a racing stand point, which OBVIOUSLY, that isn't the best solution. This is from a drifting/drag racing stand point.

I knew this thread would go to s*** in two pages.

[motoman399]

Companies offer adjustments on their differentials so you can dial in how aggressively the diff locks.

can you go into more detail please. never heard of that

My VLSD is from an early 90s Nissan in Japan. As used as it is, I'm sure it more closely resembles an open diff than a LSD.

lol exactly why i wouldnt spend money on one of those. i had a friend with one that he swore how it was so good for drifting. guess who is going welded now lol

I also haven't drank bleach to know it's bad for me, but I know it is through the use of common sense.

did you happen to think about the whole external waste gate thing? not everything that doesnt come with the car (or another car) from the factory is a bad thing. like i said we should call it a spool from now on. and then tell me how a spool is bad. i believe that i could take a turn just as fast if not faster than i could if i had an open diff again (which i still have just in case i get my hands on another 240 to make one a race car) being in the rain or dry. i think auto cross is another story. but there was times when it did help me on the really tight corners i could wip it around and then have traction to pull out of it.

on other thing Bumnah you dont have to run one. but please dont tell everyone how bad they are when you have never used one daily. because they are a really good cheap way to get sideways. people just need to make sure they know how to weld or take it to someone that knows how. cause its never fun to have your rear end explode

[ILoveMyRHS13]

can you go into more detail please. never heard of that

A couple different 2 ways have little nuts inside of them that you can adjust to make the diff lock harder. I know Nismo GTLSDs do and Tomei Technical Traxx.

[Bumnah]

All I've stated are their short comings. I believe it's up to the user to make a decision on if they want to run one or not.

If I disagree with you, I simply disagree with you. What's so bad about that?

I chose the VLSD for 2 reasons, 4.36 ring and pinion, and smooth lock up. My goal was to build a car that behaved as close to stock as possible. I have a desire to run a new 1.5 way lsd, but most probably I'll go with a Helical unit, to retain the oem style lock up and feel.

I always reference track behavior because we're modifying these cars to perform better. Yes most of the time they sit on the street, but when they get on the track you should have a car that's ready to face that type of abuse. What works fine on the street will not work as well on the track. My oil cooler is a perfect example.